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At 7/26/07 11:33 PM, Memorize wrote:

At 7/26/07 11:18 PM, tony4moroney wrote:

Terrorists took their patriotism too far, would you consider that a vice?

I repeat his statement: "It's both a vice and a virtue. Taken to far it's a vice, in moderation, I guess it can be a virtue"

That's exactly what was implied in my statement. if you weren't aware I was using the same argument k-rad presented on the basis of disproving his reasoning.

To those in this thread: there's a difference between patriotism and religious fanaticism.

At 7/27/07 01:23 AM, JakeHero wrote: To those in this thread: there's a difference between patriotism and religious fanaticism.

Osama Bin Laden didn't organize attacks on America in the interests of Islam.

At 7/25/07 07:33 PM, K-RadPie wrote:

It's both a vice and a virtue. Taken to far it's a vice, in moderation, I guess it can be a virtue,

William Wallace took it pretty far, would you consider his patriotism a vice?

Curse you RadPie and your clever response! CURSE YOU!!
Okay now that I'm done with my line of stupid, you got me I worded that wrong...I have now been forced to realize I have no bloody idea how to word that the right way...Eh well...let's just go with he didn't take it too far...
And thus my one line quota of stupid was increased to fourish.

At 7/26/07 11:48 PM, The-JefFlet wrote: doesnt it seem dumb to pledge your allegiance to something thats policies could change any day and possibly contradict what you believe.

Your country and entire way of life could disappear if you dont stand up for it. Not just a few dollars or a few less t shirt companies, your entire way of life.

Now tell me what is more important, singling out a few policies you dislike and then deciding a country is not worthy of allegiance because of it, or realizing that all things combined, both the good and the bad, your country is worthy of your support so those that come after you can enjoy the same life you have.

im not an american but i love america everytime i see stars and stripes i start to cry<@;)

just a joke but i real like america

Here's the aparent thomas jefferson:

"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then."

I think being a patrot means you have to lower the moral of those who like your country too much so they demand better and more Smile bringing polititions.

Curse you RadPie and your clever response! CURSE YOU!!
Okay now that I'm done with my line of stupid, you got me I worded that wrong...I have now been forced to realize I have no bloody idea how to word that the right way...Eh well...let's just go with he didn't take it too far...
And thus my one line quota of stupid was increased to fourish.

Okay... calm down... it's gonna be okay. Just take a DEEP breath.

Also, America > Everyone else

Now let the flame war commence!

At 7/25/07 07:29 PM, TonyTostieno wrote:

At 7/25/07 07:27 PM, K-RadPie wrote:

Patriotism is a vice. Did you know that?

Maybe in your twisted sense of reality.

It's both a vice and a virtue. Taken to far it's a vice, in moderation, I guess it can be a virtue, I don't consider myself one, but I don't have many problems with living here really. But my favorite football team is the patiots, duzzat count?

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious, guess who said that?

I don't consider myself a patriot.

At 7/27/07 10:37 AM, Brick-top wrote: Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious, guess who said that?

I don't consider myself a patriot.

I suppose I could be, as I love what America stands for and could be, but not necessarily what it is.

Where is the line drawn between nationalism and patriotism, just for clarification?

At 7/27/07 11:13 AM, Tancrisism wrote: Where is the line drawn between nationalism and patriotism, just for clarification?

Patriotism: "I love my country, even if it has some flaws. We can work to fix these flaws and make our country even better."

Nationalism: "My country is the best. Period. It is perfect in every way, and all other countries are worthless."

At least, that's my idea. Patriotism is a love of country and a desire to make it better. Nationalism is a fanatical devotion to the idea that your country is perfection in reality and above all others.

Of course I am. We are in our own way by simply doing what we do to contribute to a better America. Not always in war is one to be proven a patriot to his homeland.

At 7/27/07 03:34 PM, Project-Nemesis wrote: Of course I am. We are in our own way by simply doing what we do to contribute to a better America. Not always in war is one to be proven a patriot to his homeland.

How bout drinking beer? I'd like to think my beer drinking means more than just destroying my brain cells.

At 7/27/07 03:35 PM, Modern-Hippie wrote:

At 7/27/07 03:34 PM, Project-Nemesis wrote: Of course I am. We are in our own way by simply doing what we do to contribute to a better America. Not always in war is one to be proven a patriot to his homeland.

How bout drinking beer? I'd like to think my beer drinking means more than just destroying my brain cells.

Well, your buying teh beerz contributes to our economy, I guess... and if the products are American-made, I suppose that shows some Patriotism, but yeah, mostly it's just killing your brain cells. :P

At 7/27/07 03:59 PM, Project-Nemesis wrote:

Well, your buying teh beerz contributes to our economy, I guess... and if the products are American-made, I suppose that shows some Patriotism, but yeah, mostly it's just killing your brain cells. :P

Oh the sacrifices I make for my country. I want a medal.

I might be a patiot. I love America, and the great life it's brought me, but I see it as more of, I love Earth, and the great lief it's brought me, but America deffinetly contributed more than any other country. I disagree with our current government, and really just see the world as being beutiful, and thank America for its role in my devolpment.

What ever, interesting post =D

At 7/27/07 01:58 AM, tony4moroney wrote:

At 7/27/07 01:23 AM, JakeHero wrote:

Osama Bin Laden didn't organize attacks on America in the interests of Islam.

Yeah he did. Just an example of why Islam is such a dangerous religion.

At 7/27/07 04:11 AM, Demosthenez wrote: Now tell me what is more important, singling out a few policies you dislike and then deciding a country is not worthy of allegiance because of it, or realizing that all things combined, both the good and the bad, your country is worthy of your support so those that come after you can enjoy the same life you have.

o dont get me wrong, i love america and most of what it stands for.
i do and will support my country. im going into the US navy as soon as a graduate.
i just dont want to pledge my lifelong support of everything america will satnd for in the future.

At 7/27/07 07:25 AM, SmilezRoyale wrote: I think being a patrot means you have to lower the moral of those who like your country too much so they demand better and more Smile bringing polititions.

Dude, english please. OMG seriously rofl.

i am in no way patriotic. fuck england.

At 7/27/07 11:13 AM, Tancrisism wrote: Where is the line drawn between nationalism and patriotism, just for clarification?

A patriot is someone who is united through powerful ideals. A nationalist is someone who is united through culture. Nationalisim isn't any more evil than patriotism is; it all depends on who has the podium. The nazis are a result of nationalism gone bad, just as Al Quada and the Palestinians are a result of patriotism gone bad.

You could split hairs and play semantics over the difference between patriotism and religious fanaticism, but I have better shit to do. Like browse more topics while I'm clocked on at work.

Try being 1/2 Welsh, 1/8 Irish, 1/8 Spanish, with general bits of French, German and Danish thrown in for good measure (which supposedly makes up "English", somehow), and be patriotic. Technically I should get into a loud, finger pointing argument with myself every Six Nations...

At 7/28/07 02:45 PM, Nylo wrote:

At 7/27/07 11:13 AM, Tancrisism wrote: Where is the line drawn between nationalism and patriotism, just for clarification?

A patriot is someone who is united through powerful ideals. A nationalist is someone who is united through culture. Nationalisim isn't any more evil than patriotism is; it all depends on who has the podium. The nazis are a result of nationalism gone bad, just as Al Quada and the Palestinians are a result of patriotism gone bad.

I have never heard of Nationalism doing any service to mankind, and according to my ways of thinking, it could never help anything. Blind adherence to a nation merely due to being born in that nation seems ignorant and faulty even if the nation is a perfect country. Sure, love your nation, appreciate the life it's given you if it's given you a good life (I know I do), but don't worship it or even support it if you know it is doing something that it should not be doing.

Besides, I've always thought of a patriot as one who stands with his country, but behind the front lines, and a nationalist who stands with his country, ahead of the front lines. Both don't question, though.

If this is true, I'd be a moderate patriot; I'm thankful for everything I've had the opportunity to gain and learn, but I'm not ever going to be able to sit back and love my country and the government ruling it if they don't deserve love. Of course I'll always have nostalgia towards New England and the mid-East Coast, but if shit was to hit the fan, I would not support it.

At 7/28/07 04:07 PM, Tancrisism wrote:

I have never heard of Nationalism doing any service to mankind, and according to my ways of thinking, it could never help anything.

It could give people a reason to actually defend their nation unlike... hippies.

At 7/28/07 04:21 PM, Memorize wrote:

At 7/28/07 04:07 PM, Tancrisism wrote:

I have never heard of Nationalism doing any service to mankind, and according to my ways of thinking, it could never help anything.

It could give people a reason to actually defend their nation unlike... hippies.

Is that advocating blindly defending one's nation? How does that make you, in essence, any better than the Nazis or Jihadists? And would you consider those Germans who refused to be Nazis, or those Arabs who don't support radical Islamism hippies?

There's just one problem;

if you say...

"I love my country as what it could be [A socialist hovel]"

you're a dreamer

if you say...

"I love my country"

You're insane

Either way... patriotism is flawed; you have to support your domestic and foreign policy to love your country.

At 7/28/07 02:56 PM, D2Kvirus wrote: Try being 1/2 Welsh, 1/8 Irish, 1/8 Spanish, with general bits of French, German and Danish thrown in for good measure (which supposedly makes up "English", somehow), and be patriotic. Technically I should get into a loud, finger pointing argument with myself every Six Nations...

Yes I can relate. Not in the massive scale you have just English, Scottish and splash of Irish with some New Zealand on top.

At 7/28/07 05:02 PM, Tancrisism wrote:

Is that advocating blindly defending one's nation? How does that make you, in essence, any better than the Nazis or Jihadists? And would you consider those Germans who refused to be Nazis, or those Arabs who don't support radical Islamism hippies?

Is the US a fascist state?
Does it comitt genocide?

Didn't think so.

There is a limit. A little patriotism or nationalism isn't such a bad thing.

At 7/28/07 06:03 PM, Memorize wrote: There is a limit. A little patriotism or nationalism isn't such a bad thing.

I can most definitely see a limit to nationalism with WW@ as an example. But how can you bee too patriotic?

At 7/28/07 05:02 PM, Tancrisism wrote: Is that advocating blindly defending one's nation? How does that make you, in essence, any better than the Nazis or Jihadists?

Maybe because, in essence, our system is best? And we arent executing Jews for no reason or suicide bombing civilians over religious dogma?

The fact you would even connotate us, Westerners, seems rather inane if you ask me.

At 7/28/07 05:17 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: "I love my country"
You're insane

Yeah, strong argument there : / REAL strong argument.

Either way... patriotism is flawed; you have to support your domestic and foreign policy to love your country.

Flawed? How do you suggest a nation survives if there is no patriots? Hugs and rainbows? Or you think a prosperous nation is built from laying around on its collective ass, no exertion, no hard work, no blood spilled?

You are a utopist and naive. Severly on both counts.