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gamejunkie
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-03-29 18:30:55 Reply

At 3/29/13 03:00 AM, Jin wrote: Fine job fellas for contributing to the detriment of the portal. Do you guys even watch the flashes before voting? Or do you pass everything that has more than 1 frame?

If you feel like shooting your big (uneducated) mouth off, maybe you should go and do it in this thread instead. You'll find most of the Savewhores you're attempting to abuse, live over there. But rest assured most of us have tried what your attempting and just like us you will have absolutely no effect on (those fuckwits) pathetic voting habits. No matter what they get told, they just don't listen. Your preaching to people (the savewhores) who don't give two shits about your opinion and they also don't give two shits about how they are ruining Newgrounds for everybody. We know because we too have tried what you're attempting and we too have failed.

FYI being a Statwhores doesn't automatically make you a Savewhore and the majority of intelligent Newgrounders are totally aware of the problem and have tried numerous times to get something done about it. So, if you want to have a big baby whinging session maybe you should do it to Tom or Wade and you'll see that it gets you nowhere, just like it has done for the rest of us, for what seems an eternity. The vox populi on Newgrounds have absolutely no say in the matter. It's up to the Admins and it would seem that this problem is not a high priority on their agenda of site fixes. Even though most of us feel it should be.

I personally vote on virtually every Flash that goes through the portal judgement process, of which at least 60% I vote 0 or 1 on and like you I'm lucky to get 1 to 4 Blams a day, therefore wasting over half of my votes on utter crap that passes judgement. (Another FYI, I'm regularly in the Top 5 for the Monthly Blammers list) So, like Haggard said, 'If you're going to finger point at people", make sure you're pointing that seemingly crooked finger at the right people and not us.

Good Luck wasting your time with the Admins. Rest assured your rants will fall on deaf ears.

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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-03-30 01:49:00 Reply

finally passed the 50,000 B/P milestone. now i am only a little more than three years away from 100k. (assuming a pace of 40 points per day)

some thoughts:
1. it is not necessarily keep track of how many 0's you give each day and limit the number of submissions you protect as long as you vote honestly. the quality of submissions fluctuates from day to day. but...

2. claim: those with a daily pace of ~50 b/p are probably savewhores.
obsevation: among the active users in the list (pace per day >20), about a third earns more than 45 points per day.

i am not sure what the obsevation means, instead, i will let you draw the conclusion (if any). ^.^


I am not ghey.

DiMono
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-03-31 21:39:03 Reply

At 3/30/13 01:49 AM, i-am-ghey wrote: 2. claim: those with a daily pace of ~50 b/p are probably savewhores.

Justify this statement. Just because people get a lot of b/p doesn't mean they're savewhores. It means they're voting on a lot of submissions to pass, obviously, but if they're also collecting blams then your argument fails on its face. Many of the people who meet your criteria are also in the top blammers list and/or top protectors list; if you want to speak from your mouth rather than your anus, maybe you should spend some time going through those lists to see how the stats compare in real life, rather than making assumptions based on your "feels."


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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-01 00:10:31 Reply

At 3/29/13 03:09 PM, Jin wrote:
At 3/29/13 12:40 PM, Haggard wrote: Ever thought about that not all of the top 100 active voters are online at the same time of the day?
At 3/12/13 05:05 PM, Sentio wrote:
"The slow pace of the portal is really suiting me at the moment. I only visit the portal once a day when I've got home from work, but because everything is hanging around UJ I'm hardly missing any submissions."

Also, Bahamut has already blacklisted users whose voting habits are disgraceful, go figure.
Blacklisting eh... big whoop.

After reading all of this excrement - er, excitement concerning bad voting habits and such, I decided to look into the fine person who's trolling this thread. It seems that "Jin" has been around since 2006 (about as long as your's truly) , yet he only has 438 blams and 2633 saves. Now, 3 or 4 years ago, blams were certainly easier to get, since the portal ratio on any day was about 30 blams to 70 saves (about 30% - sometimes better). So what has he been doing these past 6 years? Mainly dumping thousands of one-line posts (most of his 3,700+ are as such) in any thread he decides is worth his attention at the moment.

Pretty much, he has done NOTHING to help improve the site - but he has PLENTY to say about it. Let's face it - I am a statwhore - math is fun - but as many of the members here, a large portion of my 0 and 1 votes are absorbed by so many others who upvote just for the protect points. The number of flashes per day has dropped to about 60 or so - and the number of blams hovers between 2 and 6. I still manage to get a blam or two here and there, but I average about 30 saves a day. The savewhores get 45-50 a day. So there IS a difference.

Unless you've really tried to help the situation, maybe you need to lurk more and read some of the prior posts before jumping to conclusions. Talk is cheap - action is what counts.

To Bahamut:

I can fully understand your disgust about Newgrounds - why keep the list if all it does is fan the flames of savewhores? Maybe you're right. It's a great conversation piece, and it does let us see who's in the ranks and who's climbing or falling. But as much as it may be fun, I (and many others) will support you if you pull the plug on it. I know where I stand, but honestly, this list has no impact on my voting habits. For those who vote fairly, they'll see it the same way. But for the savewhores, well, they'll just have to figure it out on their own.

Maybe we can bug PsychoGoldfish to incorporate some more stat lists directly from the user menus - AND at the same time, allow any user to be OMITTED from the stat lists (keep their info private). But more importantly, maybe he can add some "smart" logic to analyze a user's voting habits (how long are they signed on each day;% of blams and protects gained versus all day maximums; frequency of each vote type; etc) - every user vote gets recorded -and becomes part of the analysis process. The the obvious "ALL PROTECTS" or always-on voting bots (yes, we've seen them before) can be detected and neutralized. It's a perfect setup for data mining.

Anyway, to end my rant, I am all for anything that can help stabilize Newgrounds and keep it running fair - and if that means keeping the savewhores in the dark, then so be it. I won't give up voting fairly, and neither should anyone else. If we do, then we'll let Newgrounds fall to 0 blams per day, and become just a crappy ghetto dump that's as bad as youtube. I'm not going down without a fight!


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gamejunkie
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-01 00:22:47 Reply

At 4/1/13 12:10 AM, byteslinger wrote: yet he only has 438 blams and 2633 saves.

Umm, I don't know if that was a typo and I hate being the one to point it out but you got it wrong.

He actually has 2,633 Blams and 438 Saves. Not Vice Versa. Which is probably why he was having a whinge.

I agree with everything else you said though.

byteslinger
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-01 00:36:10 Reply

At 4/1/13 12:22 AM, gamejunkie wrote:
At 4/1/13 12:10 AM, byteslinger wrote: yet he only has 438 blams and 2633 saves.
Umm, I don't know if that was a typo and I hate being the one to point it out but you got it wrong.

He actually has 2,633 Blams and 438 Saves. Not Vice Versa. Which is probably why he was having a whinge.

I agree with everything else you said though.

Damn, you're right - I wrote it down wrong. My apologies. But still, 2,633 blams in 6+ years isn't really helping our cause.


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LittleWashu
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-01 20:23:31 Reply

At 4/1/13 12:36 AM, byteslinger wrote:
At 4/1/13 12:22 AM, gamejunkie wrote:
At 4/1/13 12:10 AM, byteslinger wrote: yet he only has 438 blams and 2633 saves.
Umm, I don't know if that was a typo and I hate being the one to point it out but you got it wrong.

He actually has 2,633 Blams and 438 Saves. Not Vice Versa. Which is probably why he was having a whinge.

I agree with everything else you said though.
Damn, you're right - I wrote it down wrong. My apologies. But still, 2,633 blams in 6+ years isn't really helping our cause.

I would help out more if I had time, but I don't have it like i used to. So I just deposit and vote on 5 things that are blam worthy but due to those savewhore most get through.

Bahamut if you decide to retire this list I seriously don't blame you friend.

Murray
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-01 22:11:47 Reply

It's funny, this time two years ago I set up an April Fools joke on the B/P update saying I was done with making the updates and was sick of feeding savewhores. Now we've just gone past April Fools for this year and here I am having thoughts to give it up for the same reasons. After two years and a redesign that really should have shaped up the portal's standards, we're still stuck with the same problems and they've hardly improved. If anything, it's worse as a few have established already.

I don't want to think there's little to no care from the admins regarding the state of the portal but if so little has been done all this time, when can we expect something to be changed to try and make things more balanced? The portal should be the main face of the site since it's what brought everyone here to begin with but if things are gonna slide and too much crap is getting through, people are not going to think as highly for the portal as they might have done. While they do feature the better content on the front page, the portal is widely established.

Don't think I'm giving up the updates for this reason alone. While it is one factor, another reason why I'm wanting to drop it is because of how little I enjoy making the updates now. I've been thinking to myself a lot lately and I feel there is so much else I could possibly do. Although I've managed to be reliable with getting these updates on time for the most part, I was willing to put it aside for anything else going on in my life so it wasn't essential that I had to get it done in time every single week/fortnight.

I won't start saying what I've been doing for the last few years has been a waste of my time since I had the willpower to do it for so long and time isn't wasted if you enjoy yourself. However, I'm feeling different now and perhaps it's time to move on. If I can tell things aren't going to improve now, it's best stopping while I'm ahead. I'm pretty sure at least one of you will agree that the whole blacklisting idea only showed I was becoming disgusted with the way things have been for ages and also hinted that I wasn't so fond of making the updates as I once was.

So yeah, this Sunday will be the last B/P update of mine and then it'll either be gone for good or someone who I think has honest intentions can take over. Don't think the one rotten egg here is the cause of all of this but if anything, he showed up at the right time for me since I could have taken a worse approach if otherwise. This has been on my mind for at least a week now and I've yet to have anyone who's trying to encourage me to continue. Hopefully with the time I have that won't be spent on this anymore can go towards something that will do me good. While I am single and on my own, I still want to try and do something really worthwhile in my own time while I have the chance.

Honestly, I have no idea how much left I'm going to dedicate my time to Newgrounds with the way things have been going. I don't hate the staff or anyone who's made this site worth looking at all this time but there comes to a certain point where I feel there's not so much left for me to see now. We're in a different time on the internet as opposed to the better days of the site (i.e. 2003-2005) and as much as I don't like saying it, Newgrounds really is falling behind. I find myself spending more time on social media like Twitter and Facebook since that's where I can spend a great deal of time speaking to friends. I'll have to see how things go with cutting back on things and if I still stick around, I suppose there's still something for me to see here but if not, that's how it'll be.

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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-02 13:57:30 Reply

At 4/1/13 10:11 PM, Bahamut wrote: Stuff.

I don't know if this has been mentioned/suggested before, but maybe merging blam and protection points would solve the issue. If every vote on a UJ submission counted as one point regardless of what people voted, then everyone would be free to vote whatever they want to and still be rewarded for it. Anyone autovoting 5 might as well vote neutrally without it having any impact on their points. The only downside I can think of is how much easier collecting points would be, it would then be about voting on as much as possible rather than voting correctly. Opinions?

Always sad to see a list go, but if you gotta do what you gotta do then you gotta do what you gotta do. :/

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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-02 14:57:40 Reply

At 4/2/13 01:57 PM, Cyberdevil wrote: Opinions?

I don't think merging b/p points into just "generic" points would change anything. Users who are blindly saving everything would just keep on their merry way, without making any effort to judge based on content, so long as they're still gaining points. Seems to me like it would just be masking the fact that nothing gets deleted anymore.


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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-02 16:57:57 Reply

Farewell to this list then Bahamut. Maybe, just maybe one day the updates can be done again... when not everything is being passed through blindly.


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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-02 22:41:20 Reply

I, too, will miss the list - but not because of my name in the ranks, but for the conversation, wit and debate that your posts brought to this thread. It is (was?) a labor of love, and even with the stat tool to help, that just isn't enough to counter the fact that things are just not the same anymore.

Even after the latest redesign, daily portal volumes have dropped and we are constantly besieged by cookie-cutter crap, spam and just plain garbage. We no longer can wield our votes and blow a whistle - everything requires a mod. Not sure if that's good or bad, but it didn't seem to help matters too much.

I think that if Tom and Wade want to bring this site back to it's glory, they should focus not just on advertising it, but completely rethinking the voting and points structure - and adding the logic to monitor voting patterns, along with bots that can temporarily (or permanently) ban a user from voting if they are profiled as "always voting up", "always blamming" or "voting on every submission every day" - or if they have too many submitted flashes being deleted by the admins / mods.

Also, there should be penalties for users that upvote a flash that later get blammed or deleted by the mods / admins. In that case, the user would lose 1 protection point - and if multiple instances occurred on the same day, maybe even more. User that upvote a flash that gets blammed only by other user votes are not penalized. Again, more stats can be accrued to see which users habitually upvote flashes that are administratively deleted - and these users can be disabled from voting as well.

Most of these ideas require some one-time coding on the NG site to capture all of the raw voting information , and then a handful of analysis tools combined with a parameter file that will sift through it all and determine who needs to be warned, temporarily shut down, or perma-banned. They could call it V-Bot.

I have plenty of ideas, and I am willing tovolunteer my time, effort , programming and database analysis skills to Tom, Wade, PsychoGoldfish or anyone else here who thinks there's some merit to my concepts, but doesn't have the time or resources. I would rather spend my time helping things get better here than watching this site continue to lose ground. This is a serious offer - and yes, it is pro bono!

As for you, Bahamut, my friend - I will bid the list adieu, but not you. I hope you stick around for a little while longer - maybe, just maybe, there's still time to turn this ship around.

*Salutes*


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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-03 10:26:37 Reply

Oh, the new level icons are ugly, too.
How low will you sink, NG?


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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-03 14:19:58 Reply

At 4/3/13 10:26 AM, Dream-of-Duke wrote: Oh, the new level icons are ugly, too.
How low will you sink, NG?

I'm gonna be honest, the only reason I started voting again was because I want my icon to be a shark with a laser beam attached to its head.


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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-03 16:23:12 Reply

I hate to see the list go, but I can totally understand the reasons. I too find myself spending less and less time here. I just stopped B/Ping for now (hell, I voted 0 on so many flashes and still they passed. I don't want to be a Don Quixote fighting against windmills...), since I didn't enjoy it enough to carry on. So, that's less time I spent in the portal. And with that, I spent less time on the BBS as well (not that I spent too much time here to begin with...). Also, the thought of leaving the BBS has crossed my mind as well... Newgrounds has played a quite important part in my "online life" in the past few years. But since things seem to become worse and worse every day, I don't know for how long I can carry on coming here every day.


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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-03 23:53:03 Reply

Maybe you guys should start working on getting more of these...

B/P ranks 51+


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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-04 00:17:37 Reply

At 4/3/13 02:19 PM, DiMono wrote: I'm gonna be honest, the only reason I started voting again was because I want my icon to be a shark with a laser beam attached to its head.

But will you have enough time to enjoy it, before another redesign comes and changes all the icons again? :P

At 4/3/13 11:53 PM, Cootie wrote: Maybe you guys should start working on getting more of these...

I got 9 of them today! D:


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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-04 09:20:19 Reply

At 4/3/13 02:19 PM, DiMono wrote:
At 4/3/13 10:26 AM, Dream-of-Duke wrote: Oh, the new level icons are ugly, too.
How low will you sink, NG?
I'm gonna be honest, the only reason I started voting again was because I want my icon to be a shark with a laser beam attached to its head.

The new icons are so tiny and so ugly. It saddens me that NG has sunk that low. The old ones were much better, I miss the golden icons which were designed for users above level 46.


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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-04 10:16:31 Reply

At 4/4/13 12:17 AM, Metal-Therapy wrote:
At 4/3/13 11:53 PM, Cootie wrote: Maybe you guys should start working on getting more of these...
I got 9 of them today! D:

Most of them happened when I wasn't online yesterday. Sour about that.


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DiMono
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-05 09:32:05 Reply

So here's an idea for fixing the portal that I think is clever: if you don't get any blams in a given day, then you only receive credit for half the number of saves, and if you don't get any saves, then you only receive credit for half the number of blams. So for instance, if you voted 5 on 50 submissions that all pass judgment, but you don't vote 0 or 1 on any that fail, then you'd only get credit for 25 saves rather than the 50 you contributed to. So you can still only vote to save if you want to, but each save is only worth half that of someone who votes honestly.

I think this would allow for direct punishment on those who only vote to save, while not interfering with their ability to do so. The people who only vote 5 are doing it because it's statistically more likely to get them the point, but once it benefits them to vote to blam I think they'll start voting more fairly because it is in their best interest to do so. That's the thing that always seems to be looked over in solutions to this problem: people will vote fairly if it's in their best interest; right now it's in their best interest to always vote 5, so the way to stop that is to redirect the maximum benefit.


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Please help fund my horror novel. I'll love you forever.

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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-05 10:30:33 Reply

At 4/5/13 09:32 AM, DiMono wrote: So here's an idea for fixing the portal that I think is clever:...(etc)

Very interesting idea. Combine this idea with "if you upvote a flash and it is blammed / removed after initial passing (admin/mod removal - stolen, rule breaking, spam, etc), you lose 2 protect points" and that will also make people think twice before clicking "5". (If you upvote a flash but it is blammed by the rest of the community and never passes, you don't get penalized).

I agree with you - the current system is flawed to the point where it condones passing everything. The ideas we've kicked around shouldn't require massive programming changes - just some nightly analytical logic programming to check the voting and administrative processes and adjust points accordingly.

I wonder if Tom or Wade have any opinion on this?


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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-06 19:18:05 Reply

At 4/3/13 11:53 PM, Cootie wrote: Maybe you guys should start working on getting more of these...

I only deposit my EXP now however when I do vote I vote 0-1 on flash that deserves to get blammed. But what is really sad is I barely touch the portal yet I get more blam points then some of the people who vote on almost every single flash.

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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-06 20:48:02 Reply

At 4/5/13 09:32 AM, DiMono wrote: So here's an idea...

-Would it do nothing more that make it more intimidating for new submitters, who would then quickly become discouraged?

-What about flashes such as "B" and Clock Crew? How do you determine the fine line of what deserves a blam after the Newgrounds community itself has willingly established such a double standard?

-Remind us all why "blam crews" were dis-allowed in the first place? Should they be brought back?

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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-06 21:49:38 Reply

At 4/5/13 09:32 AM, DiMono wrote: So here's an idea for fixing the portal

What about people who actually only vote to do one, but at the same time avoid flash movies that they feel would give them the result they wanted? Take toocool for example. He only votes to save flash movies yet he is known to avoid aka not vote on movies he knows will give him blam points.

I can also use myself in this one as well. Since most of the time I avoid protect point flash movies when I deposit and only go for things I think will get blammed. Should people like us who purposely avoid a certain type of point be penalized for this when we aren't pushing stuff to either pass or get blammed that doesn't deserve it?

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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-06 22:40:53 Reply

At 4/6/13 09:49 PM, LittleWashu wrote: What about people who actually only vote to do one, but at the same time avoid flash movies that they feel would give them the result they wanted? Take toocool for example. He only votes to save flash movies yet he is known to avoid aka not vote on movies he knows will give him blam points.

I can also use myself in this one as well. Since most of the time I avoid protect point flash movies when I deposit and only go for things I think will get blammed. Should people like us who purposely avoid a certain type of point be penalized for this when we aren't pushing stuff to either pass or get blammed that doesn't deserve it?

This is one example of how a system that punishes users for voting a particular way backfires. I think there's nothing wrong with voting on only a certain amount of flashes a day, and the system DiMino suggests, will punish these voters unfairly.

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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-07 00:24:03 Reply

At 4/6/13 10:40 PM, jaxxDS wrote: I think there's nothing wrong with voting on only a certain amount of flashes a day, and the system DiMino suggests, will punish these voters unfairly.

I totally disagree. Why should I be punished for being an extremely dedicated user? I rarely miss voting on a Flash movie/game that's Under Judgement these days and I consider myself to be one of the fairest voters on Newgrounds, so my question to you is, If I vote fairly and I vote on every Flash, every day, why the hell should I be punished for that? That's just ridiculous. It makes absolutely no sense at all, to punish those users that go out of their way for the betterment of this site does it?

Also if you were restricted to the amount of votes you could make on any given day, then the lists would become irrelevant and useless because if everyone was voting on a maximum of (let's say) 50 flashes a day and getting most of, if not all of their picks correct, then no-one would ever be able to pass anyone on the lists. Eg: (example only) Coop 100,000 -- gamejunkie 50,000 next week Coop 100,050 -- gamejunkie 50,050 next week Coop 100,100 -- gamejunkie 50,100 etc, etc, etc. You would have to rely solely on the users above you on the list leaving Newgrounds if you were hoping to gain a spot on the list and even then it would take forever.

Cyberdevil
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-07 04:45:35 Reply

At 4/7/13 12:24 AM, gamejunkie wrote: Also if you were restricted to the amount of votes you could make on any given day, then the lists would become irrelevant and useless because if everyone was voting on a maximum of (let's say) 50 flashes a day and getting most of, if not all of their picks correct, then no-one would ever be able to pass anyone on the lists. Eg: (example only) Coop 100,000 -- gamejunkie 50,000 next week Coop 100,050 -- gamejunkie 50,050 next week Coop 100,100 -- gamejunkie 50,100 etc, etc, etc. You would have to rely solely on the users above you on the list leaving Newgrounds if you were hoping to gain a spot on the list and even then it would take forever.

I interpreted jaxxDS message as: a user only voting on a few submissions in a specific day, and not voting on anything blamworthy on that particular day, would be unjustly punished if points were only given in full for users that actually receive a blam. Hope I understood that right...

As for the innovative idea above, I like the idea of righteous voting required to be fully rewarded, but instead of halfing points for users who don't both blam and save in a single day, how about giving a bonus percentage to the users who do? That way nobody would be on unjustly punished but dedicated users would still be rewarded.

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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-07 04:54:11 Reply

At 4/7/13 12:24 AM, gamejunkie wrote:
At 4/6/13 10:40 PM, jaxxDS wrote: I think there's nothing wrong with voting on only a certain amount of flashes a day, and the system DiMino suggests, will punish these voters unfairly.
I totally disagree. Why should I be punished for being an extremely dedicated user? I rarely miss voting on a Flash movie/game that's Under Judgement these days and I consider myself to be one of the fairest voters on Newgrounds, so my question to you is, If I vote fairly and I vote on every Flash, every day, why the hell should I be punished for that? That's just ridiculous. It makes absolutely no sense at all, to punish those users that go out of their way for the betterment of this site does it?

Wait, I believe you've mistaken what I meant.

I think there's nothing wrong with voting on only a certain amount of flashes a day.

Here I meant to say that I agree with LittleWashu's statement. And I think that voters like him are fair voters and should not be punished for voting fairly.

and the system DiMino suggests, will punish these voters unfairly.

Here I state that I believe Dimono's suggested system will punish fair voters unfairly.

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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-07 13:33:11 Reply

At 4/5/13 09:32 AM, DiMono wrote: So here's an idea for fixing the portal that I think is clever: if you don't get any blams in a given day, then you only receive credit for half the number of saves, and if you don't get any saves, then you only receive credit for half the number of blams. So for instance, if you voted 5 on 50 submissions that all pass judgment, but you don't vote 0 or 1 on any that fail, then you'd only get credit for 25 saves rather than the 50 you contributed to. So you can still only vote to save if you want to, but each save is only worth half that of someone who votes honestly.

That is a stupid idea - you know why? Because I am a Blammer and getting zero blams in a day happened 14 times in the past month. I don't want to be penalised for a lack of Blams on my account, because a) Blammable content has not been submitted or b) not enough people have voted to blam as well as me.

You would be punishing fair voters like myself and I would view that as a gross miscarriage of justice.


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Auz
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Response to B/P ranks 51+ 2013-04-07 14:29:06 Reply

At 4/5/13 09:32 AM, DiMono wrote: So here's an idea for fixing the portal that I think is clever: if you don't get any blams in a given day, then you only receive credit for half the number of saves, and if you don't get any saves, then you only receive credit for half the number of blams. So for instance, if you voted 5 on 50 submissions that all pass judgment, but you don't vote 0 or 1 on any that fail, then you'd only get credit for 25 saves rather than the 50 you contributed to. So you can still only vote to save if you want to, but each save is only worth half that of someone who votes honestly.

What Coop said. I regularly have days where I don't get any blam points and it's not because I'm not trying. I just vote blam on stuff that passes and don't catch any of the really bad ones.

I still think raising the minimum score for passing judgement would be the most effective and fair method of battling the problem.


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