I Don't Owe Minorities Anything

[Jerconjake]

Not that I condone slavery, but if black people hadn't been forced to come to this contient as slaves, their descendents wouldn't live the good life that they do. Not that I condone genocide, but if Native Americans hadn't been driven off their land, their descendents wouldn't live in our truly blessed, rich society.

So to every Native American band that feels the Government owes them a few million more dollars, I say go back to living off the land. To every black person who feels that injustices of the past make him or her deserving of a leg up, I say you're welcome to try your luck in Africa. Same goes for any other group you can think of.

Because guess what? In this life and in this part of the world we've all started on a more or less level playing field. We all have the same opportunities to make something of ourselves and that's what makes what we built here so wonderful. And don't tell me that people living in ghettos can't do it, because they can if they strive for it. When you boil it down, that's all it takes for any of us.

Sure there are some detriments to being a minority, but I personally would rather aceept them with a smile rather than try and exist as a majority in an environment where my very ability to survive is in question.

Begin your attacks on my reasoning... now!

[Tomsan]

a little harsh put maybe but some truth can be found in it.

but for the natives, the problem is different, you took all there land and butchered almost there entire civilization. I can understand they still feel a grutch against you for this, even the new generations. Maybe instead of giving them a desert you should give them some green areas too.

I loved how a political dude in my country said what you said in the face of a black guy. he said we had to recognize slavery (like we dont) and he just said: "if there wasnt slavery you wouldnt be here eating pizza BOY" I agree, time to forget the past and go on, you cant be mad at the white guy forever, it wont help you because we still rule the world.

[cellardoor6]

At 7/23/07 04:52 AM, Tomsan wrote: a little harsh put maybe but some truth can be found in it.

but for the natives, the problem is different, you took all there land and butchered almost there entire civilization.

First of all, every country in the world has been founded on taking land from other people. That's what a country is. The Indians whose land was taken by European settlers only had that land because they also fought against other tribes and claimed land from them.

Secondly, most Indians weren't "butchered", disease killed almost all of them, the actual "butchering" wasn't that often, and the Indians had their fair share of murderous rampages as well. The diseases were introduced by Europeans for the most part, but the vast majority of Indians weren't killed intentionally.

It sucks that a lot of the unique native American cultures were destroyed, but that wasn't an intentional thing (except for what Spanish conquistadors did).

I can understand they still feel a grutch against you for this, even the new generations. Maybe instead of giving them a desert you should give them some green areas too.

I always find it funny when people say something like that. Indian reservations are all over, in every state. They have desert where their ancestors lived in desert, tropical areas, alpine areas, grasslands... all over.

They also don't pay taxes, have basically total sovereignty over their reservations, and are getting a pretty fucking good deal. Their ancestors' land was taken, yes, but that doesn't affect them today. If they really wanted to revert back to how they were before settlers arrived, then I wonder why instead of upholding their traditions and keeping their land unspoiled, they build gigantic Casinos, resorts, and other developments on their reservations?

As for black people... I find it funny that some black leaders of some black movements use the fact their ancestors were slaves 200 years ago to justify that they commit horrendous amounts of crime, contribute little in taxes, soak up large amounts of social services that are provided by OTHER PEOPLE'S taxes, TODAY. They blame all their problems on the white man, and they demand special treatment such as affirmative action to have the government give them charity at the expense of people TODAY, who had nothing to do with slavery 200 years ago.

Seriously, it's a simple concept for them to realize: Go back to Africa if you blame your current country for your problems because they took your people from Africa hundreds of years ago. Or better yet, acknowledge the fact that Africa is basically a disaster area, always has been, and had your people never been taken from that Godforsaken continent, you'd be way worse off.

[IllustriousPotentate]

At 7/23/07 05:45 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 7/23/07 04:52 AM, Tomsan wrote: I can understand they still feel a grutch against you for this, even the new generations. Maybe instead of giving them a desert you should give them some green areas too.

I always find it funny when people say something like that. Indian reservations are all over, in every state. They have desert where their ancestors lived in desert, tropical areas, alpine areas, grasslands... all over.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en /0/02/Bia-map-indian-reservations-usa.pn g
This map disagrees with your assessment. Outside of the west and the Dakotas, nearly all reservations are minuscule, tiny enclaves.

They also don't pay taxes, have basically total sovereignty over their reservations, and are getting a pretty fucking good deal.

That's why so many suicide and murder rates on reservations are 1.5-2 times the national average?
[ http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/pub-res/natam.h tm]

Their ancestors' land was taken, yes, but that doesn't affect them today. If they really wanted to revert back to how they were before settlers arrived, then I wonder why instead of upholding their traditions and keeping their land unspoiled, they build gigantic Casinos, resorts, and other developments on their reservations?

They have to survive somehow. They can't live on the land (agriculture, herding,etc.) any longer, because they no longer have any land to live on. It's either arid desert or a small enclave of the most unproductive land in an area.

[cellardoor6]

At 7/23/07 06:11 AM, IllustriousPotentate wrote: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en /0/02/Bia-map-indian-reservations-usa.pn g
This map disagrees with your assessment. Outside of the west and the Dakotas, nearly all reservations are minuscule, tiny enclaves.

I think you're failing to realize that the country is HUGE, those swathes of land are large considering the population of the Indians. People don't inhabit the whole of the US, only a very small part. That picture doesn't make it insignificant other than in the eyes of someone who things the whole US is inhabited.

Also, Indian's aren't confined to their reservations, they are US citizens, they can go anywhere, PLUS they have reservations. They have more privileges than non-natives do.

They also don't pay taxes, have basically total sovereignty over their reservations, and are getting a pretty fucking good deal.

That's why so many suicide and murder rates on reservations are 1.5-2 times the national average?
[ http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/pub-res/natam.h tm]

Yeah.. that means absolutely nothing because their murder rates are also 2 times higher. That just shows they have a statistical tendency to inflict harm on both themselves and others, that doesn't mean that this is a result of bad treatment from the US as a whole.

They have to survive somehow.

Wtf are you talking about? They are still US citizens, they can go anywhere and do anything any other American can. It appears as if you think they are locked away in their reservations...

They can't live on the land (agriculture, herding,etc.) any longer, because they no longer have any land to live on.

They have the WHOLE country to live on. Plus they have reservations they have governmental sovereignty over. They have plenty of land even among their reservations considering Native American Indians and Alaska Natives only make up 1.5% of the US population, and only 1% is comprised of people with ONLY Native American ancestry.

They have a SHITLOAD of land considering how small their population is compared to the rest of the US, and how large the US is.

It's either arid desert

Um yeah if it's a desert tribe!

or a small enclave of the most unproductive land in an area.

Where do you get that idea? What makes you think it's "unproductive" land?

[andrease]

So what youre saying is that the capture of slaves and transporting them from africa was good, just because their now living relatives lives a better life? And that the extermination ( ok, i know there is some still living) of the native population of Northen america?
That means that russia can invade the usa and capture alot of people and transport them back to russia. Because maybe russia will be the richest and most powerful country in the world in 50 years. Who knows? I doubt that the slave owners thought they were doing the slaves a big favor..

[AfroJustice]

i will go bak to africa if u get ur ass back to europe. seriously just stfu with ur btiching, no one is goin anywhere so ur gonna have to deal with minorities u racist prick.

[Begoner]

The same thing applies to the Jews. I mean, after the Holocaust and WWII was over, did they honestly believe that they were entitled to something from Germany?

What you fail to realize is that systemic disenfranchisement (and even genocide) is an appalling crime; while it can never be fully pardoned or assuaged, the victims are entitled to any means of mitigating its effects. The US has done virtually nothing for the Native Americans -- it stole all their land and gave a hundreth of it back (and the land it did give back was only the least desirable terrain). They deserve compensation for this grave injustice. Blacks and slaves were treated with extreme cruelty; their modern descendants deserve compensation. It doesn't matter if life would have been better in Africa -- there's a little thing called crime and punishment. You can't kill a father and say you don't owe the son anything -- you can't willfully commit heinous atrocities with impunity. If anything, the US should be giving more to blacks and Native Americans.

[cellardoor6]

At 7/23/07 09:08 AM, AfroJustice wrote: i will go bak to africa if u get ur ass back to europe. seriously just stfu with ur btiching, no one is goin anywhere so ur gonna have to deal with minorities u racist prick.

Ok then, now that you've decided that nobody is going anywhere... Don't you think it's time to quit using the fact that your ancestors were taken from Africa as a pretext to complain today?

Don't complain about something that none of us were alive to experience, if you don't want people to hold you to account for it.

[AfroJustice]

At 7/23/07 09:11 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:
Ok then, now that you've decided that nobody is going anywhere... Don't you think it's time to quit using the fact that your ancestors were taken from Africa as a pretext to complain today?

Don't complain about something that none of us were alive to experience, if you don't want people to hold you to account for it.

good generalization u racist. most blak ppl dont think much bout slavery b/c its in the past, but wut we do think bout is today. we r still poor, still sufferin, and such.

[morefngdbs]

At 7/23/07 09:15 AM, AfroJustice wrote: good generalization u racist. most blak ppl dont think much bout slavery b/c its in the past, but wut we do think bout is today. we r still poor, still sufferin, and such.

;
So this is my fault how?
My family roots are pretty much, Irish serfs, Scottish peasants.
Take a look at a history book dude, you don't get poorer than that, you don't hear me complaining.
Instead of whining about how terrible it was way back when, why not S.T.F.U. and get an education & then go get a decent job.

Way fuckin' easier to whine & moan about how hard done by, you are by the past.
What a bunch of losers.

[Begoner]

At 7/23/07 09:24 AM, morefngdbs wrote: ...why not S.T.F.U. and get an education & then go get a decent job.

Because meekly submitting to the iron-fisted will of a racist nation is the cowardly thing to do. It implicitly condones the history of categorical discrimination against blacks (including slavery) by not taking action to help right previous wrongs. One should stand up and vehemently protest when such egregious abuses occur unchecked, not lie down and take it willingly because "it could always be worse."

[morefngdbs]

At 7/23/07 09:42 AM, Begoner wrote:

It implicitly condones the history of categorical discrimination against blacks (including slavery) by not taking action to help right previous wrongs.

;
Oh, I guess it's just a rumor here in Canada.
You see we heard up here that there was a conflict in the United States awhile back & the President had ordered that slavery was now outlawed & that all slaves had been freed.
Imagine my shock , that your still practicing slavery.
I believe you are F.o.S.

You cannot change history.
You cannot change past mistakes-EVER-

You can learn from those mistakes & try not to repeat them in the future.
But if you have never been a slave, you have no right to cry to me, that your 'rights ' have somehow been affected by practices that are in the past.
THe problem with slavery today is , your all still whining about it.

I feel the same way about native rights ie; hunting & fishing.

If you were given the 'right ' to hunt & fish in the 1700's with your homemade canoe & you spear & bow and arrows.
Don't come here today in a million dollar fishing boat, fishing out of season screaming you have some 'right' given you in the 1700's to fish .

Yeah, you've still got that right, so go get a canoe, and a spear & have fun.

[Korriken]

At 7/23/07 09:42 AM, Begoner wrote:

At 7/23/07 09:24 AM, morefngdbs wrote: ...why not S.T.F.U. and get an education & then go get a decent job.

Because meekly submitting to the iron-fisted will of a racist nation is the cowardly thing to do. It implicitly condones the history of categorical discrimination against blacks (including slavery) by not taking action to help right previous wrongs. One should stand up and vehemently protest when such egregious abuses occur unchecked, not lie down and take it willingly because "it could always be worse."

Perhaps I misread this, but are you saying that getting an education and a decent job is a bad thing? I've seen many successful, and even rich blacks. They have risen above the whole concept of "we're black, therefore, we're destined to be nothing." They did not give up, they kept trying, they succeeded.

I do agree with the OP myself. If you want something, you have to strive for it and stop pointing to the past every time someone brings up a the reason why blacks and other minorities are not so well off. "our ancestors were enslaved by the white man" is the biggest red herring that I have ever seen. if it was a REAL herring you could feed a large army with it. I look across the street at the trailer park I live by and see why blacks are so bad off, they don't try! Do you think THIS GUY got where he is today by sitting around feeling sorry for himself? HELL NO! he saw an opportunity, ran like hell with it, and wound up with more money than the average man can dream of, let alone earn.

yeah, go ahead, call me "racist" if you have to, if it makes you happy. It won't get you anywhere. You'll still be a poor minority that feels that the white man is keeping him down and that he can become nothing because whites systematically screw over blacks.

Rather than letting ideas that were planted into your parents heads 40 years ago stop you, toss them ideas and have a look at what america REALLY is. If the white man was holding the black man down, you wouldn't see all these rappers and atheletes today. Only the wise get anywhere in this world, and the wise don't resort to screaming "racist" every time someone tells you that you are the only one holding you back.

[devilchrono]

Exactly.

[Rockthebestmusic]

whatever happened to wanting equality? most of my freinds who are black (yes i said black and i refuse to abide by political correctness) and they are pretty cool they don't complain or anything and we are all happy. But hten i see some people who harp on this fact and demand reparations and i say well would you prefer to live in Darfur now? I mean people should treat each other fairly based upon abilities and since a black person is just as good biologically at anything a white person can do this shouldn't be a problem. (i hate black people who say "it's because i'm black you are discriminating against me as this is not true)

All people in my mind are ranked by ability not by how they look.

[tony4moroney]

At 7/23/07 09:15 AM, AfroJustice wrote:

At 7/23/07 09:11 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:
Ok then, now that you've decided that nobody is going anywhere... Don't you think it's time to quit using the fact that your ancestors were taken from Africa as a pretext to complain today?

Don't complain about something that none of us were alive to experience, if you don't want people to hold you to account for it.

good generalization u racist. most blak ppl dont think much bout slavery b/c its in the past, but wut we do think bout is today. we r still poor, still sufferin, and such.

The problem is you've still got prominent black leaders like Al Sharpton bitching and moaning about black oppression when in truth slavery was abolished 150 years ago, blacks were granted equal rights for almost 50 years and when statistics say its not white men thats the problem. Its black people killing white people and killing each other. Most blacks at some point or another complain about racism or at least I'm hearing this a lot.

If anybody wants to complain about a difficult past look at the Irish, look at the Jewish. Jewish of course now possess a disproportionate amount of wealth i.e they're successful despite all their suffering which spanned hundreds of years. Post-Slavery non-black immigrants were heavily discriminated against as well, you don't see any of them blaming whites these days. Actually I've watched a video of a prominent black professor complaining about the history of European settlement and concluding that white people need to be massacred. Now I have a problem with this, if anything there is discrimination today. Its that you guys get a hell lot more benefits. Had that been a white guy, well you could only begin to imagine the outrage.

Anyone hear about that white couple that got kidnapped tortured? The man got his limbs and penis cut off in front of his wife's face, while she was raped for several days and then brutally murdered. Anyone hear about that? No? You know why? Because the people who committed that crime were African-Americans. I know this is an 'anomaly' per se but I'm just saying no one is keeping black people from being successful. Its your defeatist attitude and culture. Want to figure out your problems? Look at your disdain for language and education, the hip-hop and rap music you guys tune into that crap out misogynistic, racist 'guns drugs and bitches' lyrics that everyone aspires to be. Look at your gang mentality, lifestyles and maybe absolve these and then as someone else said you'll have more successful people such as Chris Gardner.

[Begoner]

At 7/23/07 10:10 AM, Korriken wrote: Perhaps I misread this, but are you saying that getting an education and a decent job is a bad thing?

Getting an education and protesting against the grossly inequitable conduct of the US government are not mutually exclusive actions.

I've seen many successful, and even rich blacks. They have risen above the whole concept of "we're black, therefore, we're destined to be nothing."

That's a whole different point. The question here is whether the US government should pay indemnities for its past "mistakes" (genocide and slavery, to mention two). Clearly, it should. Anyway, it's much harder to become successful if you're subjected to discrimination, receive a poor education in the inner city, and grow up in a crime-ridden environment. Black children are generally less well-off than their white counterparts -- if you start low, it's hard to climb high, especially in a capitalist system. It's a lot easier if you're white and live in a peaceful suburban neighborhood.

[Begoner]

At 7/23/07 10:08 AM, morefngdbs wrote: You cannot change past mistakes-EVER-

No, but you can try to make up for them. That's a large component of the criminal justice system. You do something wrong, you pay. When a murderer kills someone, you don't say, "Oh, well, you can't change past mistakes ever; you don't need to pay for your actions." Imagine how the world would be if we didn't care about past mistakes.

[Proteas]

At 7/23/07 11:27 AM, Begoner wrote: Getting an education and protesting against the grossly inequitable conduct of the US government are not mutually exclusive actions.

Yet you just as good as said that it's better to be poor and stupid and blame all your problems on whitey than it is to be educated and take responsibility for yourself. How do you explain that?

Clearly, it should.

I think the statute of limitations ran out on reperations a LOOONG time ago, begoner. The people who were adversely effected by slavery are long gone now, and it's not fair to just arbitrarily apologize and financially compensate their descendants who never had to live with those hardships... case in point; me. I was never adversely effected by slavery, yet here I stand not buy a few generations removed from that terrible time in our American history, white as the day is long, and I've got African American slaves in my family tree.

That kind of throws a wrench in the system doesn't it?

[tony4moroney]

At 7/23/07 11:48 AM, Proteas wrote:

At 7/23/07 11:27 AM, Begoner wrote: Getting an education and protesting against the grossly inequitable conduct of the US government are not mutually exclusive actions.

Yet you just as good as said that it's better to be poor and stupid and blame all your problems on whitey than it is to be educated and take responsibility for yourself. How do you explain that?

How did he say this at all? He even clarified it. You can protest and get an education at the same.
But I have to disagree, the U.S Government is not significantly responsible for the inequality in schools. Blacks under perform because of culture, not because of 'lack of funding'. athe government ensures adequate facilities and there are poor people that succeed academically, and there is no way the government can resolve the socioeconomic woes of specific neighborhoods. That would mean redistribution and it'd be socialism/ communism. It's the individual's responsibility to do what is within his means to get the best from his education, and with libraries sufficient facilities within schools I don't see what else the problem is.

Clearly, it should.

I think the statute of limitations ran out on reperations a LOOONG time ago, begoner. The people who were adversely effected by slavery are long gone now, and it's not fair to just arbitrarily apologize and financially compensate their descendants who never had to live with those hardships... case in point; me. I was never adversely effected by slavery, yet here I stand not buy a few generations removed from that terrible time in our American history, white as the day is long, and I've got African American slaves in my family tree.

I think that summarizes everything. The government has done enough to ensure equality, its now the african-american responsibility, not the government's and definitely not because of actions done to their ancestors 150 years ago. Hey why doesn't South America get compensation from the Spanish, and the British ex-commonwealth nations from England then?

[morefngdbs]

At 7/23/07 11:31 AM, Begoner wrote:

"Oh, well, you can't change past mistakes ever; you don't need to pay for your actions." Imagine how the world would be if we didn't care about past mistakes.

;
WHy should you or anyone today be compensated for something that never happened to you.
Comparing someone murdering someone today with past practices 150+ years ago is in my opinion assinign.

You don't seem to care about past mistakes.
You seem to want compensation for something , that you havn't even experienced & that has nothing to do with todays society.

It is so much easier to whine & bitch, than it is to try to help solve a problem.
But I think until people who think that 'Whitey's' the problem, learn that their own predjudices are the real problem, your doomed to continue to have problems.
If there is one thing I have learned... Nothing can help you faster than helping yourself.

[Sajberhippien]

At 7/23/07 05:45 AM, cellardoor6 wrote

acknowledge the fact that Africa is basically a disaster area, always has been, and had your people never been taken from that Godforsaken continent, you'd be way worse off.

Buuuuuullshit. Africa domesticated animals already at 6000 BC, and they worked with iron at 1000 BC. Only india aside from Africa had such metalworking at the time.
But yes, it is a disaster area now. And guess why? Because the western world exploit Africa so much. I really recommend the movie Darwin's Nightmare, it's a good introduction to the subject.

[morefngdbs]

At 7/23/07 01:07 PM, Sajberhippien wrote: But yes, it is a disaster area now. And guess why? Because the western world exploit Africa so much. I really recommend the movie Darwin's Nightmare, it's a good introduction to the subject.

;
Too easy
You may want to blame the West... Then why is Zimbabwe not a Utopia?
It was rich, a food exporting country surrounded by poverty, It gets taken over by the Native's & now look at it.
Anyone wants to see what the real problems of afica is about, You just need to look at the leaders of the countries on that continent.

[Sajberhippien]

At 7/23/07 11:26 AM, tony4moroney wrote:

Its black people killing white people and killing each other. Most blacks at some point or another complain about racism or at least I'm hearing this a lot.

The working class always has more crime. And blacks are overrepresented in the working class.

Anyone hear about that white couple that got kidnapped tortured? The man got his limbs and penis cut off in front of his wife's face, while she was raped for several days and then brutally murdered. Anyone hear about that? No? You know why? Because the people who committed that crime were African-Americans.

The reverse in media is a fact; A white man killing someone is a killer, a black man murdering someone is a black killer.

[FatherTime89]

At 7/23/07 11:27 AM, Begoner wrote: That's a whole different point. The question here is whether the US government should pay indemnities for its past "mistakes" (genocide and slavery, to mention two).

Genocide? What are you talking about? The only thing that comes to mind is internment in WWII, however this doesn't count because

a. It was not genocide
b. It was directed entirely at Japanese people (aka asians)
c. they already paid reparations for it

[Memorize]

At 7/23/07 09:11 AM, Begoner wrote:

If anything, the US should be giving more to blacks and Native Americans.

Ah shut up.

I don't give a good God damn what whitey did to my ancestors 200 years ago.

The government treats me really well as far as colleges go. Free money... on the sole fact that i'm Indian alone. Need a $20,000 grant just for being indian? Yep. Got that. And I still don't get why anyone should have to pay me for what their great great great great great great grandparents did.

[Elfer]

At 7/23/07 01:56 PM, Memorize wrote:

At 7/23/07 09:11 AM, Begoner wrote:

If anything, the US should be giving more to blacks and Native Americans.

Ah shut up.

I don't give a good God damn what whitey did to my ancestors 200 years ago.

The government treats me really well as far as colleges go. Free money... on the sole fact that i'm Indian alone. Need a $20,000 grant just for being indian? Yep. Got that. And I still don't get why anyone should have to pay me for what their great great great great great great grandparents did.

Damn straight. Nobody alive today in the US has ever owned slaves or was owned as a slave, and nobody was ousted from their land, nor did anybody participate in such an ousting.

People just want free money, and if they can get it for suffering they didn't go through, from people who didn't put anybody through it, they'll make a grab for it if they can.

[Brick-top]

At 7/23/07 04:52 AM, Tomsan wrote:

Maybe instead of giving them a desert you should give them some green areas too.

You do realise that if there was an Indian burial ground on your property they can claim it as holy land and kick you out with question. It's called political correctness. Hell I remember hearing about one guy finding a grave and wanted to get rid of it. But news leaked and a day later he demolished EVERYTHING in his land. That's 40 acres of filled 80% with trees. I mean it not as if they will claim the 6ft long bit of ground they'll claim the entire property and the fucking government will give it to them.

[Korriken]

At 7/23/07 11:27 AM, Begoner wrote:

At 7/23/07 10:10 AM, Korriken wrote: Perhaps I misread this, but are you saying that getting an education and a decent job is a bad thing?

Getting an education and protesting against the grossly inequitable conduct of the US government are not mutually exclusive actions.

you show me one living

I've seen many successful, and even rich blacks. They have risen above the whole concept of "we're black, therefore, we're destined to be nothing."

That's a whole different point. The question here is whether the US government should pay indemnities for its past "mistakes" (genocide and slavery, to mention two). Clearly, it should.

Bull shit! I say it again, Bull shit! I want MY check Because I'm irish and the irish were discriminated against during the potato famine. The Japanese were put in interment camps during WW2, but you don't hear THEM bitching now do you?

This isn't a matter of right and wrong, no, its much simpler, its a matter of greed! The only way to right the wrong of slavery is to give a check to those who were enslaved... oh, wait, THEY ARE ALL DEAD! They all died over 100 years ago! Not much we can do for them, and as for their descendants? well, you shouldn't give someone something for something they didn't suffer. The only connection the blacks today have with the blacks that were in slavery is a history book.

also, there is such a thing as equality now, a boss cannot refuse to hire blacks because he doesn't like them, the federal law puts a stop to that. If nothing else, with Affirmative action, blacks get priority over whites! Its reverse discrimination, which is wrong, because the white youth of today had nothing to do with what happened 50-150 years ago.

I tell you what begoner, you give me ONE solid reason for handing a paycheck to every black in america and I will give you FIVE reasons not to! Let's have a test of wits, Sheeple Vs Average Lower-middle class white guy.