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I wonder if St. DAG would mind if I went polytheistic? That gun god sounds cool......

brezjnev (brezhnev?) your song/poem thingy fucking rawked, even though i love firearms, i also love anythign that mocks the american middle class (of which I am a part!! woot!!!)

"Your average citizen has the right...constitution...freedom..protect...gun"

Did anyone stop to think that your average citizen is just your everage citizen until he decides to solve some problems with a gun that he bought for protecting him and his family?

At 7/3/03 10:10 PM, xderangedxuncagedx wrote: Did anyone stop to think that your average citizen is just your everage citizen until he decides to solve some problems with a gun that he bought for protecting him and his family?

You're putting the blame for someone's actions on the gun, rather than the person. Remember, the gun is only an inanimate object, a tool. You shouldn't blame a gun for a crime, you must blame the criminal.

...Or you could blame those making guns available to criminals. Just a thought.

Unless You have an invention that locks the gun to anyone with criminal like d.n.a criminals are going to have access to the weapons like anyone else. Makeing them harder to get legally and keeping tighter track of the ones that are sold are realistic steps to lowering the numbers. And on another note, Im a poet, I didn't like whatever the hell that was.

At 7/3/03 10:51 PM, xderangedxuncagedx wrote: ...Or you could blame those making guns available to criminals. Just a thought.

So we ban guns to everybody? Is that the solution?

No. If criminals want guns, they're going to get
guns. It's no surprise that most weapons used in crimes are illegal to begin with.

[sarcasm]
I'm sure that if we snatch all the guns out of the hands of regular, non-criminal citizens, that'll really affect the criminals!
[/sarcasm]

Less guns available = less guns in the hands of criminals. Look at countries like Japan and Australia. It's that simple.

Does anyone actually have statistics for non gun murders? That could go to prove either point once someone stops just talking about gun numbers and puts them into context.

I say if you get caught raping a girl or killing someone we cut both your fucking hands off and you'll never use a gun or knife again lol. Then all the good people will have guns and it will be easy to differentiate the criminals from the normal population.

Right, that will work, because every criminal here in fairy land gets caught.

In the end, It boils down to this.
Guns don't kill people. Other people kill people.
You take away guns, people will kill with knives.
You take away knives, people will kill with clubs.
You take away clubs and people will kill with their hands.

No matter what tools are available to them, Criminals will STILL kill people. If you outlaw guns, the only people who will lose them will be the Hunters, musems and collectors who legally own registered firearms.

At 6/28/03 08:06 PM, _crossbreed_ wrote:

At 6/28/03 07:31 PM, mikehrt wrote:

Does that include criminals?

Criminals should be in Jail. People in jail should not have guns, TV or toilet paper. Well, maybe they can have that really rough toilet paper. But no charmain, thats for sure.

At 7/5/03 07:11 PM, FlattusMaximus wrote: In the end, It boils down to this.
Guns don't kill people. Other people kill people.
You take away guns, people will kill with knives.
You take away knives, people will kill with clubs.
You take away clubs and people will kill with their hands.

No matter what tools are available to them, Criminals will STILL kill people. If you outlaw guns, the only people who will lose them will be the Hunters, musems and collectors who legally own registered firearms.

amen brutha! actually come to think of it, since i iwll probably own a gun when i am older, if i saw some man trying to attack my family or rape my daughter or something, i would shoot him, no questions asked. guns are to be used. we women live in a dangerous world, lets defend outselves eh?

At 7/4/03 12:12 AM, _crossbreed_ wrote: Less guns available = less guns in the hands of criminals. Look at countries like Japan and Australia. It's that simple.

Stricter gun laws may decrease the number of guns in the hands of criminals by a certain percentage, but it will inevitably hit non-criminals much harder. Do you really want a disarmed populace vs. a still armed and dangerous criminal element?

Thinking that criminals will not find ways of arming themselves, including illegal guns, is unrealistic.

At 7/5/03 09:26 PM, Commander-K25 wrote:

Stricter gun laws may decrease the number of guns in the hands of criminals by a certain percentage, but it will inevitably hit non-criminals much harder. Do you really want a disarmed populace vs. a still armed and dangerous criminal element?

Don't they have policemen in America? Besides, how it will affect the normal populace much harder if those with a criminal record aren't allowed to carry guns? Johnny Lawful will have his guns and rifles while Johnny Dopedealer won't.

Look, if a criminal doesn't have a gun to point at you he'll try to mug you or rape you or whatever with a knife or what have you and when you proceed to kick him in the gonads or pepper spray him, he won't be thinking about swinging his knife at you, he'll be busy clasping his eyes or groin. With a gun he just needs the strength to pull a trigger.

Thinking that criminals will not find ways of arming themselves, including illegal guns, is unrealistic.

That explains the 40 deaths by gun in Japan annualy compared to the 12 000 in America. Oops, I guess it doesn't.

"A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."
The Palestinians seem to agree.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030704/168/4l8oz.html

At 7/5/03 10:27 PM, _crossbreed_ wrote: Don't they have policemen in America? Besides, how it will affect the normal populace much harder if those with a criminal record aren't allowed to carry guns? Johnny Lawful will have his guns and rifles while Johnny Dopedealer won't.

It depends on what level of gun control we're talking about here. Now you're saying you'd allow people to have guns and rifles?

That explains the 40 deaths by gun in Japan annualy compared to the 12 000 in America. Oops, I guess it doesn't.

The reasons are more complex than more gun control vs. less gun control. We're talking about different cultures, demographics and socio-economic conditions in comparing the U.S. to Japan.

At 7/5/03 10:51 PM, _crossbreed_ wrote: "A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

Now you're throwing Islamic extremism into the mix. Make some rational and equal comparisons for a change.

At 7/5/03 10:55 PM, Commander-K25 wrote:

It depends on what level of gun control we're talking about here. Now you're saying you'd allow people to have guns and rifles?

One of each, perhaps.

The reasons are more complex than more gun control vs. less gun control. We're talking about different cultures, demographics and socio-economic conditions in comparing the U.S. to Japan.

...no we're not. Look at Australia if you're claiming that only Asians have the common sense of not having guns everywhere.

At 7/5/03 10:57 PM, Commander-K25 wrote:

Now you're throwing Islamic extremism into the mix. Make some rational and equal comparisons for a change.

"A well-regulated Militia (Hamas) being necessary to the security of a free State (Palestine), the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.(see picture above)"

What's the difference between American fundamentalism and Islamic fundamentalism?

If a man breaks into your house and you don't have a gun, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO SHOOT HIM!?

At 7/6/03 01:04 AM, GamerX6666666 wrote: If a man breaks into your house and you don't have a gun, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO SHOOT HIM!?

Jesus, guy! Move out of the ghetto! What's with those people that keep breaking into your house?

At 7/5/03 11:05 PM, _crossbreed_ wrote: "A well-regulated Militia (Hamas) being necessary to the security of a free State (Palestine), the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.(see picture above)"

What's the difference between American fundamentalism and Islamic fundamentalism?

You're comparing apples to oranges. This is completely irrelevant and out of context.

America guarantees it's people the right to bear arms. It's a right, you can choose to exercise it or not. Currently, we aren't experiencing any civil war or conflict at home and we have a well-organized, professional military, so you don't see armed militias.

Palestine has little regular military, is currently in a state of ongoing war and thus uses Islamic extremism to urge it's population to arm men, women and even children and go become suicide bombers and terrorists. If you don't know what I mean, just listen to some of the regular hate-rants that are put out every Friday there.

So what exactly are you saying? State-sponsored terrorism can be solved by gun control? By whom?

You're making very little sense and seem to be grasping at straws and irrelevancies.

At 7/6/03 02:24 AM, Commander-K25 wrote:

You're comparing apples to oranges. This is completely irrelevant and out of context.

They both grow on trees. HA!

America guarantees it's people the right to bear arms. It's a right, you can choose to exercise it or not. Currently, we aren't experiencing any civil war or conflict at home and we have a well-organized, professional military, so you don't see armed militias.

Then what's the purpose of the NRA? Palestinians/Zionists may also choose to carry a gun around with them or not.

Palestine has little regular military, is currently in a state of ongoing war and thus uses Islamic extremism to urge it's population to arm men, women and even children and go become suicide bombers and terrorists. If you don't know what I mean, just listen to some of the regular hate-rants that are put out every Friday there.

Ah yes, America isn't at war either. Nonetheless, both American and Palestinian have the fun-filled right of bearing arms.

So what exactly are you saying? State-sponsored terrorism can be solved by gun control? By whom?

I'm saying Palestine and Israel aren't that different from America. An overwhelming majority of citizens in each country loves their gun, god and government way too much.

You're making very little sense and seem to be grasping at straws and irrelevancies.

It's always fascinating to observe how a True Believer reacts to a sudden, unexpected and unanswerable threat to his fundamental ideological underpinnings.

At 7/6/03 02:33 AM, _crossbreed_ wrote: I'm saying Palestine and Israel aren't that different from America. An overwhelming majority of citizens in each country loves their gun, god and government way too much.

But that's a point for a different topic. It's not really related to this one.

It's always fascinating to observe how a True Believer reacts to a sudden, unexpected and unanswerable threat to his fundamental ideological underpinnings.

Or how and Arrogant Young Leftist must try to belittle and pidgeonhole anyone who disagrees into make-believe stereotypes so they can write-off any opposing viewpoints as fanatical.

At 7/6/03 06:56 PM, Commander-K25 wrote:

But that's a point for a different topic. It's not really related to this one.

Both countries allow the right to bear arms and the citizens in each country abuse that right.

Or how and Arrogant Young Leftist must try to belittle and pidgeonhole anyone who disagrees into make-believe stereotypes so they can write-off any opposing viewpoints as fanatical.

I LOVE YOU! :D

At 7/3/03 10:51 PM, _crossbreed_ wrote: ...Or you could blame those making guns available to criminals. Just a thought.

The people making guns available to criminals are criminals! It is against the law to sell a fire arm to a felon. My cousin isn't even allowed to keep a baseball bat in his house.

I would still love it if someone came in with murder numbers from things other than guns. I know for a fact that in the u.k stabbing is alot more popular.

At 7/6/03 09:25 PM, mikehrt wrote:

::

The people making guns available to criminals are criminals! It is against the law to sell a fire arm to a felon. My cousin isn't even allowed to keep a baseball bat in his house.

John Ashcroft to the rescue!
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/02/28/MN40941.DTL

Who cares about illegal gun purchases?
http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/gunsuits.html#ricker