Newgrounds.com — Everything, By Everyone.

It sure seems that way...if you ask me, the best way to deal with the problem is just single out the obvious pattern and consider it abuse--posting audio, then giving high-rated audio several 0's in a row. Much easier to ban the violators than try to shape the entire system around them, and then with them gone, restore the 1 vote for 1 person system.

I just tried out the voting everyday thing. It works.

o_O really? I must've encountered a bug of some sort then, I'll go try again. If this is actually true, they may have gotten it right this time around....sort of. Everyone will continually rate their own submissions highly, while others come in and give them 0's, and not a single person has an accurate rating. Oh well.

Hey, sure enough, you're right...now if only I didn't have 1/10 of the voting power of the downrater <.< .

lol... A thus, whole new bitch-session was born.

Copy+pasting from other thread.

Some old problems were fixed, some new ones were created.

1) Experience in the flash portal counts when you vote in the audio portal
(bad, bad, bad! A person could have seen 1000 flash submissions yet have no clue when it comes to music, so why should their vote count more?)

2) You get no experience for voting in the audio portal, so people who are the most qualified to judge music will not get a voice (many of them do not visit the flash portal often)
(imaging for a second that it was the other way around. Think the flash portal users would find it fair?)

3) No option to listen to and vote for music right on a user's main page (where all their songs are listed). It would be nice to have the option.

4) The video often doesn't recognize beats very well

------------------

Feel free to add more. #3 and 4 are relatively minor problems (though #3 is inconvenient). However, #1 and #2 severely compromise the legitimacy of the audio portal.

Don't get me wrong, this is better than the previous voting system. Zero voters will be less of a problem, for one thing (because people can vote more than once, and because high-ranked users' votes count more). However, it is a major error to believe that experience in viewing flash movies in any way makes users better judges of songs. Even worse is penalizing those who actually spend more time on the audio portal by not recognizing their votes.

I think this problem can be fixed by having two systems for everyone - one which counts their "voting power" for flash submissions, and another one for audio submissions. Perhaps to start off, the amount of reviews that people have written should be used as a basis for who's level 1 and who's level 60 in the audio portal. After that, only audio votes would count toward the score.

Simply put, it makes no sense to treat the audio portal as a smaller part of the flash portal. It has never been that, even if that has been the intention. The flash and audio portals have two different communities, which partially (but not completely) overlap. Just as there are many flash artists who don't really care about the audio portal, there are many audio artists who don't really care about the flash portal. They're not here to see their works used in flash submissions (most of which are of bad quality and don't make effective use of their music); they're here to show their talent to the world and get feedback.

------------------

There are many positive changes to the audio portal. It is definitely better overall, even if there have been some steps back.

Unfortunately, there is still this huge problem that desperately needs to be fixed.

My biggest beef is the [nav pages here] that appears when I browse by genre. Shouldn't there be links to the other pages?

I love the new audio system. Much cleaner and easier to use.

Although occasionaly a song wont load, but i guess that is normal with the high traffic.

i sure missed a whole lot... i have no idea what's going on, but these new icons are AWESOME!

I am happy that they now have a legal section for the music. Before it was a little ambiguous whether or not you could use certain songs, but now it is a much more easily used audio resource for all.

It sure is pretty, and the front page system has improved - as well as how each track has it's own page now... sexy.

There are still a few things that need touching up. The 90 character description needs boosting to something well... reasonable. Would be great if it allows links too. It's not like there is a shortage of space on the new track pages.

Also, I find it a bit weird (and questionable on a legal point of view) at how they have
relicensed all the music to a CC system.. Firstly this annoys me a bit, because they used a difference license than I otherwised clearly specified on my account page - The license I use is slightly more restrictive when it comes to remixing.

Secondaly, It's up to the content author to define license, not the website that it is hosted on - Fair enough if they put on the upload page that 'your music must be licensed by so and so a license', but nearly all tracks on the AP before the update wern't licensed at all, and NG can't legally apply their own idea of a license onto it.

Since there is no smooth way to delete audio either, there is no way to pull out of the license NG has forced onto you either.

Bit... odd.

At 7/18/07 01:07 AM, Esn wrote: Copy+pasting from other thread.

Some old problems were fixed, some new ones were created.

1) Experience in the flash portal counts when you vote in the audio portal
(bad, bad, bad! A person could have seen 1000 flash submissions yet have no clue when it comes to music, so why should their vote count more?)

Isn't it obvious? Ppl with high exp. are usually more devoted to the portal, and chance that they're 0-voters is lower. I think most 0-voters are ppl, who came to the site to do smth nasty, why would they care about exp gained by everyday voting? It's quite a good idea IMO.

3) No option to listen to and vote for music right on a user's main page (where all their songs are listed). It would be nice to have the option.

Yeah, having to click on every single song to see the reviews or vote is totally inconvenient:/

4) The video often doesn't recognize beats very well

True.

I wanted to say that right now, I get more votes... I didn't even know something like 3.85, 4.44, 4.62 exists xD Looks like somehow it DID bring more interest to audio, though unconvenience... Or maybe it's just now, and then ppl will get bored with this?

I would really like to see an increase in the 4 meg limit 8 or 6 megs should do it. Or at least the ability to delete our music, i know that one is in more demand.

I like the redesign and all like I said in my previous post in the official thread.

Anyway, I just installed the latest flash player finally.
And finally i heared the music on the audio frontpage
But wth, I hope that the current audiofrontpage songs are just temporary.
I just heared 3 songs on the audiofront and all of those 3 just sound... well.. let say;
definately not good enough for frontpage. imo

The songs I heared:
- A simple piano song, the piano sounds like a .mid file with the standard windows soundbank piano.
- Some cheap hornsection thing.
- Some song with a dude singing, this better be not on the audiofrontpage =/

They all sound too cheesy and lack quality to be on the frontpage imo
Where are the winning entries of MAC7 May, and the old unicron remix? =(

Everything outide Newgrounds "credited to ParagonX9" have a link that goes to my old audiopage URL,
now this old URL redirects me to my profile instead of my audiopage.
I get so many traffic from other websites and now they are being sent to my profile O_o

And oh yeah, my screen just lags so bad when I try to type a message here in the BBS =/

For the rest I think the Audioportal just looks very nice =]

At 7/18/07 04:04 AM, ParagonX9 wrote: And oh yeah, my screen just lags so bad when I try to type a message here in the BBS =/

For the rest I think the Audioportal just looks very nice =]

Yes, everyone is suffering from the lag monkeys. But that is probably only temporary because of all the logged on users. I can only hope, anyway...

Okay. You all say how good it is that the redesign will attract more attention to the AP.

Yes, I think it can be good. I also think it can be bad.

For example, my friend, who is a flash reg here, says how he wants to get active with the audio portal more. But this is only because of the gay stream video and the new voting look, and extensive use of flash around all the pages.

I'm not saying he is shit at making music, but it will also attract a lot of bollocks tracks onto the audio portal. Like really, really bad. Like my stuff I have on here at the moment for example :P
Or maybe even worse.

I'm just saying the AP will get a lot of unwanted attention from people, even if it is just for the first few weeks, just because it looks cooler.

And, we can all agree that the navigation of it is ugly as sin.

At 7/17/07 09:27 PM, MaestroRage wrote: I don't quite like the CD graphics for the tracks. I'm WAY too used to seeing teh smexy vinyl records.

I hope there will be audio rewards now! Though I doubt anybody is going to get any rewards if they are the same caliber as Flashes. Even Paragon doesn't have a quartermillion listens i'm sure.

you can upload cd art now ..dunno if thats been mentioned

you guys shouldnt worry too much...this is by no mean the be all end all of the audio portal.

At 7/18/07 05:42 AM, JohnnyUtah wrote:

At 7/17/07 09:27 PM, MaestroRage wrote: I don't quite like the CD graphics for the tracks. I'm WAY too used to seeing teh smexy vinyl records.

I hope there will be audio rewards now! Though I doubt anybody is going to get any rewards if they are the same caliber as Flashes. Even Paragon doesn't have a quartermillion listens i'm sure.

you can upload cd art now ..dunno if thats been mentioned

you guys shouldnt worry too much...this is by no mean the be all end all of the audio portal.

I think that's what MaestroRage meant when he said he didn't like the CD graphics.
And how do you mean, no means the end of the audio portal?

Does this mean you'll be udgrading it even more?
If so, we going to see suggestions from this thread put into action?

holy crap, looks like A-Bot took over the frontpage!!! http://www.newgrounds.com/lit/faq then click audio

Well actually I think that 1 million listeners award is possible.
I know that most of the people will just only come to listen to the songs instead of downloading it.
Now with the new design every pageview of a single submission will count as a "Listener" i think.

Oh according to my previous post:
I just noticed that the audio frontpage loops are the weekly Top5 songs.
Oh god I just hope people won't submit scream voices and fiven them before the weekly update
so they get a Top5 spot >_<

At 7/18/07 06:22 AM, ParagonX9 wrote:

Oh god I just hope people won't submit scream voices and fiven them before the weekly update
so they get a Top5 spot >_<

At least users with higher level more easily can prevent this now with just voting on new submissions :)

At 7/18/07 06:25 AM, Rucklo wrote:

At 7/18/07 06:22 AM, ParagonX9 wrote:

Oh god I just hope people won't submit scream voices and fiven them before the weekly update
so they get a Top5 spot >_<

At least users with higher level more easily can prevent this now with just voting on new submissions :)

Won't it be easier to get your votes to count for more as it's now real esay to increase in levels?
I think I have just tomorrow until I'm level 10.

At 7/18/07 05:45 AM, Gorglore wrote:
Does this mean you'll be udgrading it even more?
If so, we going to see suggestions from this thread put into action?

Yes, thats whats he's saying. MindChamber told me about it too before I started the "Your Changes for the Audio Portal" thread. Don't worry guys, more changes are on the way. Sooner or later. ;)

damn i have some problems example given i cant listen to a-bot and i cant listen to the audio.
i dont know why.

you found the "play music" button i take it? just above a-bot.

if not, perhaps you need a fresher flash version... i really have no idea :-/

I just hope the audio submission option comes soon. I can't keep any track on ma updates. If there are any. lol. :(

OK - I'm certain this has been mentioned somewhere but what's with the "Best Tracks Ever
All-time Top Scoring!" crap on the AP front page?

Could that list be any more random than it is?

I couldn't find any rhyme or reason to it - sorry but I just don't understand how that part is supposed to work.

Example - (randomly clicked link)

#27 - Tribal Ceremony -
score: 2.8
11 votes
84 listens
134 downloads

... ummm..... yeah.

At 7/18/07 10:00 AM, LJCoffee wrote: OK - I'm certain this has been mentioned somewhere but what's with the "Best Tracks Ever
All-time Top Scoring!" crap on the AP front page?

Could that list be any more random than it is?

I couldn't find any rhyme or reason to it - sorry but I just don't understand how that part is supposed to work.

Example - (randomly clicked link)

#27 - Tribal Ceremony -
score: 2.8
11 votes
84 listens
134 downloads

... ummm..... yeah.

Why?
here it goes:
you get 3 points for a download
you get 1 point for a listen
then you multiply the score by 10 [or 20] and add it up

since there were NO "listens" before the redign, it "All-Time best scoring" [for the past 16 hours]

I was in that list and my song had a score of 3.85

At 7/18/07 10:07 AM, loogiesquared wrote:
Why?
here it goes:
you get 3 points for a download
you get 1 point for a listen
then you multiply the score by 10 [or 20] and add it up

since there were NO "listens" before the redign, it "All-Time best scoring" [for the past 16 hours]

I was in that list and my song had a score of 3.85

In other words - very soon everythin will return to normal, as all places in "The best ever" will be taken by Paragon? xD

At 7/18/07 10:07 AM, loogiesquared wrote:
since there were NO "listens" before the redign, it "All-Time best scoring" [for the past 16 hours]

I was in that list and my song had a score of 3.85

WRONG! There are tracks up there who were submitted long before the redesign. I got 3 tracks in there...the oldest track I found so far is dated 12/02/2006. It's kinda strange really. I think a script just picked those "first lucky ones" out of a pool.

Nothing else would explain this randomness....OR...the admins made this list - to test stuff out or just to piss us off. Haha. I don't know. I really don't know.

But I agree with LJ...it's an unnecessary thing really. There will just be more jealous no0bs and downvotings than before... : /