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At 7/20/07 12:40 PM, Krash17 wrote: I think it's amazing that this whole debacle could have been avoided if religion didn't exist! Then we could complain about OTHER shit!

If only, eh? :P

religion is a group of ideas about creation and existence founded on faith.
i just hate it when it's propogation is based on tactics such as bribing and denying aid - or even physical force..

that is why i created this thread..i don't give a shit about the issues of christianity , but about the way it's spreading..

At 7/22/07 12:50 PM, rithel wrote: religion is a group of ideas about creation and existence founded on faith.
i just hate it when it's propogation is based on tactics such as bribing and denying aid - or even physical force..

You might not believe me, but I agree with you.

that is why i created this thread..i don't give a shit about the issues of christianity , but about the way it's spreading..

Christianity's numbers are actually dropping overall. We're growing below the world growth rate.

At 7/15/07 07:42 AM, rithel wrote:

holy people my ass , those guys convert the lower caste hindus by the hundreds!

"Lower-Caste" Well I'm glad your country is heavily segregated into class systems and you recognize this. Not only this but that you have a problem with Missionaries because they help the people that your society shuns.

they build churches in the remotest parts of india..and slowly convert all them tribals with the promise of a better life..the charity organisations are nothing but a farce..they are actually used to pay people to convert..yes , that happens - they actually PAY people to convert! and oncethey convert , they grant them aid..

Actually its called helping the poor, they just happen to be trying to preach them about God at the same time you dumb shit. They promise them a better life and sponsor them and that's wrong? So you'd rather segregate them from your 'upper-class' leave them to a life of helplessness and expect them to rot there?

those who read the paper might remember some of the last words of mother teresa...where she says she had done "terrible things" ...i didn't know what it meant then..but i really hope she rots in hell...

Mother Theresa led a selfless life sacrificing everything she had to help others, she regretted making a mistake in her life (which you incidentally don't remember which means it can't be severe) and simply because of that one err you wish her an eternity of damnation. Well fuck you.

but atleast india is better off - we still have a majority of hindus..the missionaries have donr far worse damage..look at what happened to the descendents of the aztecs , and the mayans!

That sentence made no sense whatsoever you illiterate retard

hell look at africa - it's nothing but a soul farm for missionaries..what good have they done there?

Prove that they haven't done any good. They've helped save lives, build communities, prevent diseases and raise awareness. What have YOU done? That's exactly what I thought you piece of shit.

man i hate them so bad..i wish they all burn in hell..

Well I'm glad your pathetic religion not only condones an apartheid regime but it also teaches you to condemn missionaries trying to help those people you condemn to a life of worthlessness to an eternity of hell.

Maybe Christians give to charity because they care? And maybe then they try to witness because they don't want you to go to Hell?

At 7/15/07 10:47 AM, morefngdbs wrote:

At 7/15/07 07:42 AM, rithel wrote: later on , i realised what missionnaries do..

those who read the paper might remember some of the last words of mother teresa...where she says she had done "terrible things" ...i didn't know what it meant then..but i really hope she rots in hell...

;
You must remember, the church invented heaven as a place that was "GREAT" so they could give their downtrooden members something to look forward to.
They also invented "HELL" just incase the downtrodden had a person of ... lets say a more questioning mind & also as a terrible place so bad no one would ever want to go there, they would do whatever the church wanted so they could be "saved" from going there.
For All Eterity-dum-dum-dum- DUMB

So if they invented mythical places called -'heaven & hell'- are you really that gullible that your going to believe that they are real?

Heaven and hell were concepts Created atleast 300 years before the church, and most likely several thousand years before that.

Christianity is a system exploited by people, not the other way around.

There was no Church untill 300 years after Jesus of nazareth [Christianities Technical founder] had died; between the years 30 AD and 300 AD Roman officials saught to extinguish the concept of Jesus' teachings; Love of one another and worship of one god; which was clearly an enemy idea to the previous notion of the Divine Status of the emperor [Aka; The emperor is a god or a Demi-god] around the year 300 AD a solution to the problem was divised, Christianity was legalized, Jesus the Wise Teacher was transformed into Jesus the God and saviour, and Roman emperors were able to comprimise they're divine status in replacement of Divine Favor. Before The Roman catholic church had been divised; christians were reffered to as 'Followers of the way' [Sounds Very Buddhist don'tchathink]

This is why Christianity has so many similarities with Paganism, this is how the powerfull were able to sucessfully maintain they're powerfull status despite everything that Jesus ever taught.

The same thing can be said about muhhamad, One man's attempt at Creating a band of followers dedicated to Charity and peace turns into the creation of a religon.

At 7/22/07 06:39 PM, tony4moroney wrote:

At 7/15/07 07:42 AM, rithel wrote:

<stuff>

the lower castes consist of scheduled classes and also tribals ,some which chose to stay outside society..and therefore were never discriminated against..those people have their own ways to survive , they have their own culture..which was untouched for centuries..
now missionaries come in , build a church , convert them - and then say " they have been aided"..then they become parasites..dependent on aid..

then there are the north-eastern states , which are - no were , the centres of buddhism.missionaries came , now the place is 97% christian.what do you think of that???
as for the tolerancy of the missionary movement towards other religions..francis xavier burned alive 10,000 hindus in goa because they resisted conversion..and he is looked upon as a role model for all saints..

At 7/23/07 02:24 AM, rithel wrote: then there are the north-eastern states , which are - no were , the centres of buddhism.missionaries came , now the place is 97% christian.what do you think of that???

It's a little too monotone for my taste, but there's nothing inherently bad with it. Greece used to be the epicenter of all thought and philosophy. Rome used to be the center of power in the world. Times change things. Detroit used to be the motor capital of the world. We are definitely NOT that any more. Things change.

as for the tolerancy of the missionary movement towards other religions..francis xavier burned alive 10,000 hindus in goa because they resisted conversion..and he is looked upon as a role model for all saints..

can you show me that? I admit I don't know much about him, but when I looked up goa and his name I didn't get any results saying he burned people....

At 7/23/07 02:24 AM, rithel wrote:

At 7/22/07 06:39 PM, tony4moroney wrote:

At 7/15/07 07:42 AM, rithel wrote:

<stuff>

the lower castes consist of scheduled classes and also tribals ,some which chose to stay outside society..and therefore were never discriminated against..those people have their own ways to survive , they have their own culture..which was untouched for centuries..
now missionaries come in , build a church , convert them - and then say " they have been aided"..then they become parasites..dependent on aid..

then there are the north-eastern states , which are - no were , the centres of buddhism.missionaries came , now the place is 97% christian.what do you think of that???
as for the tolerancy of the missionary movement towards other religions..francis xavier burned alive 10,000 hindus in goa because they resisted conversion..and he is looked upon as a role model for all saints..

Had he put it that way then yes, I can recognize that Christianity and missionaries are causing a cultural genocide and mass homogenization. I fucking hate this. But perhaps that assclown could learn how to word himself better and show a genuine concern for preserving culture rather then just being an outright elitist fuckwit, which he is.

At 7/23/07 03:11 PM, tony4moroney wrote: Had he put it that way then yes, I can recognize that Christianity and missionaries are causing a cultural genocide and mass homogenization. I fucking hate this. But perhaps that assclown could learn how to word himself better and show a genuine concern for preserving culture rather then just being an outright elitist fuckwit, which he is.

Well for starters English probably isn't his first language. Second off, if you've read the thread, you'd know he's retracted most of his hateful statements. Third, I can empathize with the concern over historical preservation, but I think he's just misguided in thinking that preservation of traditions for an indefinite time is something that can occur.

Who knows, in 100 years, India might be all Christian, America might be all Muslim, and we might all be bitching about how China keeps acting like the world police (those damned Buddhist bastards!).....

You wanna preserve something? Make it history. Killing Christians didn't preserve Paganism, killing Jews didn't preserve arian supremacy, and killing everyone didn't preserve RCC hegemony.

*Agree's with imperator*

At 7/23/07 06:45 PM, Imperator wrote:

At 7/23/07 03:11 PM, tony4moroney wrote: Had he put it that way then yes, I can recognize that Christianity and missionaries are causing a cultural genocide and mass homogenization. I fucking hate this. But perhaps that assclown could learn how to word himself better and show a genuine concern for preserving culture rather then just being an outright elitist fuckwit, which he is.

Well for starters English probably isn't his first language. Second off, if you've read the thread, you'd know he's retracted most of his hateful statements. Third, I can empathize with the concern over historical preservation, but I think he's just misguided in thinking that preservation of traditions for an indefinite time is something that can occur.

No I checked his personal profile and it confirms he is an elitist. "My family were from an upper-caste indian inheritance bla bla i love myself, we're great, I support a segregated class system'

Who knows, in 100 years, India might be all Christian, America might be all Muslim, and we might all be bitching about how China keeps acting like the world police (those damned Buddhist bastards!).....

You wanna preserve something? Make it history. Killing Christians didn't preserve Paganism, killing Jews didn't preserve arian supremacy, and killing everyone didn't preserve RCC hegemony.

Make it history? What? So you're saying obliterate hinduism, 'lower-caste' tribes, natives in order to preserve it? How does that work?

At 7/23/07 07:26 PM, tony4moroney wrote:

Make it history? What? So you're saying obliterate hinduism, 'lower-caste' tribes, natives in order to preserve it? How does that work?

Ever heard of a history book?

Oh wait... look at who i'm talking to. Of course not.

At 7/23/07 07:30 PM, Memorize wrote:
Ever heard of a history book?

Oh wait... look at who i'm talking to. Of course not.

Lol. Gotcha bitch!

At 7/23/07 07:26 PM, tony4moroney wrote: No I checked his personal profile and it confirms he is an elitist. "My family were from an upper-caste indian inheritance bla bla i love myself, we're great, I support a segregated class system'

You got all that from "i'm a hindu brahmin..means my family had enjoyed a really high social status back in the old days..and that i don't eat meat , drink , or smoke.."?

Wow dude, I think you overstepped the bounds that sentence allowed there.....by a mile and a half....

Make it history? What? So you're saying obliterate hinduism, 'lower-caste' tribes, natives in order to preserve it? How does that work?

Ever heard of history books? (damn you Memorize). How about Museums? Check my homepage and the quote, that's from a historian, who's work has survived over 2500 years. Considering that's a pretty bold statement (I highly doubt anything I say will EVER survive the test of time...), that seems pretty arrogant.....but so far....he's been right! Ask yourself how, and why.

THAT'S how you preserve traditions. No, don't "obliterate" anything, that's usually what leads to a LACK of history (although not in every case). You're thinking history means "dead" and "gone", when history is actually more animate than that.....

Missionaries are the main reason my ancestors are dead. If it weren't for them, Native Americans would still be here, stronger then ever, and not just thin blooded or mud bloods(Native American term first before Harry Potter) but pures, I hate missionaries because they corrupted the views of Native Americans to the extent that they gave their land up, for white people to come in, and basically kill them. Be thankful your people are still around and are pure and strong, unlike mine who are thin blooded mostly and cling on to what tiny culture we have left

At 7/23/07 09:10 PM, FourthHorsemanDeath wrote: Missionaries are the main reason my ancestors are dead.

Manifest Destiny and Puritans are the reason your ancestors are dead.

I hate missionaries because they corrupted the views of Native Americans to the extent that they gave their land up, for white people to come in, and basically kill them. Be thankful your people are still around and are pure and strong, unlike mine who are thin blooded mostly and cling on to what tiny culture we have left

You're thinking US army, and politicians. Missionaries have no control over ownership of land, and it was public policy to push indians off the land. Right anger, wrong target.

My bad, thanks for the correction

because i truly want to have a nice logical discussion , i'm gonna put it as nicely as possible...

@tony :

No , i'm not an elitist snob.I just said I was a brahmin , and this is how you define a brahmin..we were rich , and very well-learnt back in the day , but now we're essentially midle class , and there are no kings for us to advise(my ancestors used to be advisiors to the king - niyogi brahmins i believe that's called..but that's another issue)..I was giving a bio..not boasting , nor saying "I hate the lower caste cos i'm better than them" cos that's what you implied by saying that..

@imperator :

You're a smart guy..i enjoyed this discussion..though i do believe that spreading the faith is an important part of the religion , which by and large i encourage christianity to practice - but in your own grounds..slowly and stealthily converting the lower classes is not the way to do it.
Agreed , they need aid..which our government may or may not provide - but wouldn't it be better if the aid was given - no strings attached?I have said before - This topic is not anti christian , but anti missionary..religion is something that commands respect , and should be accepted by an induvidual when he firmly believes in it..and the methods of conversion by missionaries are to be frank - a tad too underhanded..I cannot stand it in any religion - yours or mine..

At 7/15/07 04:00 PM, Dash-Underscore-Dash wrote: God forbid they give a better life to the people who are born into a class that you shun.

>> My exact sentiments. Like who cares if their gestures of good will are not motivated for purely altruistic reasons. At least they're providing a better life for the Dalits than the loving Brahama's with their love and kindness and so called College degrees, or the Kshatriya brutes.

At 7/26/07 01:29 AM, hongkongexpress wrote:

At 7/15/07 04:00 PM, Dash-Underscore-Dash wrote: God forbid they give a better life to the people who are born into a class that you shun.

>> My exact sentiments. Like who cares if their gestures of good will are not motivated for purely altruistic reasons. At least they're providing a better life for the Dalits than the loving Brahama's with their love and kindness and so called College degrees, or the Kshatriya brutes.

I do care..indians are not sheep , that are fed till they are fat enough to use as they will..The caste system has virtually died out post independence..their situation is somewhat like that of blacks in america..they enjoy benifits and reservations , and scholarships.
Brahmins and kshatriyas are no longer all rich and princely..a good number of them are midle class - lower middle class..

I find it insulting for civilised society to be spreading an ideology in such a way..

At 7/24/07 01:58 PM, rithel wrote: because i truly want to have a nice logical discussion , i'm gonna put it as nicely as possible...
@imperator :

You're a smart guy..i enjoyed this discussion..though i do believe that spreading the faith is an important part of the religion , which by and large i encourage christianity to practice - but in your own grounds..slowly and stealthily converting the lower classes is not the way to do it.

Agreed. I wish religions would stay out of pissing contests between themselves, but it don't seem to always happen that way.

Agreed , they need aid..which our government may or may not provide - but wouldn't it be better if the aid was given - no strings attached?I have said before - This topic is not anti christian , but anti missionary..religion is something that commands respect , and should be accepted by an induvidual when he firmly believes in it..and the methods of conversion by missionaries are to be frank - a tad too underhanded..I cannot stand it in any religion - yours or mine..

Absolutely. Frankly, in this day and age, I don't even understand the point of missionaries. As far as I'm concerned, the Word has been spread to all ends of the Earth. It'd be rough to find a human who didn't know what Christianity was. I think they should just stick to humanitarian acts henceforth....but I'm not in charge so I guess that won't be happening any time soon......

At 7/26/07 03:00 AM, rithel wrote: I do care..indians are not sheep , that are fed till they are fat enough to use as they will..The caste system has virtually died out post independence..their situation is somewhat like that of blacks in america..they enjoy benifits and reservations , and scholarships.
Brahmins and kshatriyas are no longer all rich and princely..a good number of them are midle class - lower middle class..

I find it insulting for civilised society to be spreading an ideology in such a way..

That one will probably warrant a few criticisms. Are you saying that because you come from a certain class, you should be entitled to special priveleges that other's shouldn't get

I personally see nothing wrong with lower classes enjoying the same opportunities as any other human. Everyone should get an equal chance, regardless of "class".

I might have worded that incorrectly.The lower classes seem to be enjoying wayy too many rights.
you may want to read this if you have the time.the government want to reserve 50% of the total seats in government colleges for the lower classes..and the rest 50% are for general category , and even here - the lower classes can contest for a seat. which led to formation of groups like youth for equality..brahmins,kshatriyas and the like are collectively held as "general caste"..and their financial status is similar to that of most of india , but without any sops from the government.Plus , with a good portion of seats in colleges and government sector jobs going to the lower caste due to reservation..they are really left in the dumps, it is more like a "reverse discrimination" now.

I still feel i have not worded this correctly , but this is another issue.I will pm some articles which state the point in a clearer fashion..

At 7/23/07 07:41 PM, Imperator wrote:

At 7/23/07 07:30 PM, Memorize wrote:
Ever heard of a history book?

Oh wait... look at who i'm talking to. Of course not.

Lol. Gotcha bitch!

At 7/23/07 07:30 PM, Memorize wrote:

At 7/23/07 07:26 PM, tony4moroney wrote:

Make it history? What? So you're saying obliterate hinduism, 'lower-caste' tribes, natives in order to preserve it? How does that work?

Ever heard of a history book?

Oh wait... look at who i'm talking to. Of course not.

Preservation;

1. to keep alive or in existence; make lasting: to preserve our liberties as free citizens.
2. to keep safe from harm or injury; protect or spare.

If you didn't notice the contradiction in saying you must preserve something by allowing it to become history you're both severely degenerate.

At 7/27/07 05:07 AM, tony4moroney wrote:

At 7/23/07 07:41 PM, Imperator wrote:

At 7/23/07 07:30 PM, Memorize wrote:
Ever heard of a history book?

Oh wait... look at who i'm talking to. Of course not.

Lol. Gotcha bitch!

At 7/23/07 07:30 PM, Memorize wrote:

At 7/23/07 07:26 PM, tony4moroney wrote:

Make it history? What? So you're saying obliterate hinduism, 'lower-caste' tribes, natives in order to preserve it? How does that work?

Ever heard of a history book?

Oh wait... look at who i'm talking to. Of course not.

Preservation;

1. to keep alive or in existence; make lasting: to preserve our liberties as free citizens.
2. to keep safe from harm or injury; protect or spare.

If you didn't notice the contradiction in saying you must preserve something by allowing it to become history you're both severely degenerate.

Something can be preserved in memory. If something becomes history then it's no longer in existance today but it is still known and acknowledged.

Now for filler..................................
.. done.

they are really left in the dumps, it is more like a "reverse discrimination" now.

Mmmm....that makes a lot more sense now. I get what you're saying. Yeah, you're right, I think I pretty much agree with you for the most part.

What portion of your country comes from each class? By that I mean what % are lower class, what % are higher class?