Newgrounds.com — Everything, By Everyone.

At 7/13/07 11:18 AM, MindChamber wrote: the point is should a Sponsor be co-author.. the answer is no.. because at this moment and time, the authorlinks are for the creators of the content, it was not designed or intended for sponsors . plain and simple.

You know what MindChamber, you shouldn't be whining to us about what people should and shouldn't be doing on Newgrounds.

If you're so heart broken that people co-author their sponsors, then go complain to Tom. Tell him not to front page their entries anymore if they co-author sponsors because it's hurting the Flash industry and NG. Maybe then people will stop doing it. But until then, it will continue, and no matter how many people you curse out in this thread, sponsors will continue showing up as co-authors.

God, why does everything like this have to turn into a frag fest :(

Sometimes I think that those animating stuido/companyies or w/e are getting asked to be co-d just because the author can say " its from armour games".. instead of having it from some user we know damn nothing about. Scenario 1 is annoying as hell, but maybe the other one is worse?!

At 7/13/07 11:55 AM, DFox wrote: If you're so heart broken that people co-author their sponsors, then go complain to Tom. Tell him not to front page their entries anymore if they co-author sponsors because it's hurting the Flash industry and NG. Maybe then people will stop doing it. But until then, it will continue, and no matter how many people you curse out in this thread, sponsors will continue showing up as co-authors.

The whole point of this thread is to open a line of communication about that matter... why are you even posting here if you arent really offering anything to the topic? Nobody is turning the world upside down... or telling tom or changing anything.... its a fuckin discussion...

At 7/13/07 12:06 PM, MindChamber wrote:

At 7/13/07 11:55 AM, DFox wrote: But until then, it will continue, and no matter how many people you curse out in this thread, sponsors will continue showing up as co-authors.

actually no not in the future in wont, read the above thread

I see, and that's a great thing. So I'm not really sure what the issue is now... It's being dealt with so that's good.

But, I think you'll agree with me, that seems a little like giving in. I don't think sponsors deserve a place in the NG credits. When a TV show ends, are the sponsors in the credits? No. It's the sponsors job to benefit as much as they could from their advertisement during the show, which in this case is during the game.

Didn't ANYONE here read my post from earlier? It's not like sponsors force themselves to be coauthor, just say "no" and they'll understand.

Heck it was INGLOR of all people who gave me that advice in the first place!

At 7/13/07 10:08 AM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote: Not sure how it is with other sponsors, but coauthoring armorgames isn't mandatory (and they don't give you more money for doing so).

Just tell them that they didn't work on the game so you don't feel that they should be a coauthor. I told that to dan a while ago (magnetism 2 I believe) and he hasn't asked to be a coauthor since.

It's MUCH worse when a sponsorship company submits a game and doesn't coauthor the person who made it (I.E. Mofunzone, miniclip, etc)

At 7/13/07 12:04 PM, MindChamber wrote: either way, it don't matter slick, In the future there will be a section in the co-auth that designates producer, sponsors etc...
point here was, people DO confuse the co-authors as creators, and it isn't fair to the artist.

it does matter. arguing a point that no one is debating is tantamount to lunacy. i personally think its spectacular that theres going to be a means of clearifying. that was my whole point. i dont really believe that coauthors deserve the term "coauthor". you seem to think we are on opposite sides of the fence.

and for the LAST GODDAMN TIME, we get it tyler, armorgames doesnt require it. good for them!

At 7/13/07 12:13 PM, MindChamber wrote: I say we are working on giving them their own section in the co-auth links, and now were giving in?

You're completely missing my point. I NEVER said it's a good thing that it will keep happening. It's a BAD thing. What I'm saying is I think you'll be giving the sponsors and extra excuse to be included now in the credits under that sponsor section.

I've gotten things sponsored by armorgames and they never asked to be co-authored. Let's pretend I still get things sponsored by them and there's those new spots for producers, sponsors, etc. Now will they ask me because there's a designated spot? It's just a question and something to think about.

Alot of you guys seem to be just jumping on MC for the hell of it.

Lets say you go to a sponsor company and they say "Hey we'll give you $100 bucks for your game", and you say "Ok that sounds good" Then they say "But we'll give you $40 extra if you co-author us".

Is it really worth it?
I think alot of it is just self respect. You know, the Radiohead "I cant have my work tainted" kind of stuff that nobody really cares about anymore. I personally think its kind of lame when I see a sponsor logo before a game or movie, but I try not to hold that against them. However when I see that their co-author is the sponsor, its kind of harder for me to. I just wont vote or review.

In the future when they arent known as co-authors, I wont really care, but for now I think its pretty stupid to co-author a sponsor.

hey wait, we're only covering half of what this topic is about with all this flaming about sponsors and coauthors. That was scenario 2. What about all those damn Scenario 1 people?

At 7/13/07 12:17 PM, MindChamber wrote: wait what... you were up my ass a second ago telling me, the reasons sponsor co-authed so they can have a clear list of games, but then say that no one reads those descriptions anyway.. so which is it?

i was never "up your ass", so quit being a fucking martyr here. what i said is that all the games are included in your profile, which will allow them to be seen if someone chooses not to venture to their site, and in the same breath, i said that i personally dont read the list of authors anyhow and that if they want me to recognize them, they should put their name in the author comments or the swf.

i cant help but feel that you need to relax.

I think Im gonna lock this up at the end of the day, i think its reaching its saturation point and it was fun while it lasted (i guess)..

i think at this point everyones just repeating things over again and not really going anywhere productive.

MY OPINION is that coauthoring as it stands now feels fundamentally wrong in both those scenarios.. being coauthored is such a powerful thing to me. Because it really feels like its yours like it is the original authors.. i think thats dangerous in a scenario where someone just blurted an idea and you executed and expanded on it. I dont think its fair for that person to enjoy the fruits of success that you broke your back for.

Same deal with coauthoring a sponsor, i think its fundamentally wrong as a sponsor to have the disrespect in someone who's letting you bank on their success to go the extra mile and put yourself in the coauthor slot as if you put in hard love and labor to make it happen.
Its even more unfortunate and wrong for sponsors who flat out want to be the pperson submitting the entry without even giving you the creator a coauthor.

In a perfect world, a sponsor is buying his 15 seconds at the beginning of your game and a plug on the main menu. Fine. When you as a creator start selling the creation credits i think its dangerous and ultimately you are bringing yourself and your hard work down because who knows what opportunities you are risking by sharing creation rights with someone who didnt create it.

All in all both scenarios feel wrong and with the redesign maybe they will be addressed and alleviated.

At 7/13/07 12:28 PM, MindChamber wrote: this thread aint about you and armorgames alone yknow.

no, its about you and your opinions being supreme...

At 7/13/07 12:28 PM, MindChamber wrote: but its also an option for people who have no choice like mofonzones people.

But like I said before when Luis deemed my post useless, why does Newgrounds allow that to be the case? It makes me a little sad that you know it's happening but can't do anything about it. You know that mofunzone is taking advantage of people, taking advantage of the NG co-author system, hurting the industry, yet they can do it with no consequences...

this thread aint about you and armorgames alone yknow.

I know hun :)

At 7/13/07 12:33 PM, MindChamber wrote: you addressed your inital post to me., when i wasn't even speaking to you

well, good golly, i cant help but feel when you make your opinions public you might end up in a dialog or two. crazy thought, i know, but hold on tight. my original post did address you, since i felt like you were going off the deep end, but i quickly apologized for my hasty assessment and AGREED with you. yeah, im the jerk here.

luckily this aint about you, but submitters in general, and the consensus is, this hold alot of weight to that authorship, even if you dont.

why dont what we talk about what this is REALLY about. this is the mindchamber thread, where mindchamber mindchambers, and if anyone says otherwise, then they are wrong and subject to ridicule. yeah, if you cant tell, you might have these other sheep impressed with your notoriety, but i still think youre trash.

keep to the topic and refrain from addressing me directly and I'll relax.

ill probably continue to address people when they make statements id like to comment on. god bless public fora. you just need to learn not to get on a bitchfit when others dont agree with you.

...

in the interest of redeeming my post, slightly, id like to say that in an instance of comparison, certainly the "idea person" deserves the coauthor slot more (infinitely more, at that). the sponsor deserves to have one ad and one link, and i feel like thats about it. should the game become "[sponsor name here] presents..."? no. but they deserve to get a return on their investment.

that also being said, if you are creating quality material, you can make more than some sponsor is going to give you, if not in money, in traffic, which is currency 'round these parts. returning visitors stand to provide more income if you dont send them skirting off to some sponsors page.

At 7/13/07 12:41 PM, MindChamber wrote:

At 7/13/07 12:32 PM, DFox wrote: It makes me a little sad that you know it's happening but can't do anything about it. You know that mofunzone is taking advantage of people, taking advantage of the NG co-author system, hurting the industry, yet they can do it with no consequences...

wait, you are blaming newgrounds for the fact that greedy little kids are selling out to Mo?
are you serious?

Why do you try to twist my words?

I blame newgrounds for allowing them to use NEWGROUNDS as a platform to do it. Newgrounds can control what is done on Newgrounds, and right now we're talking about it being done on Newgrounds.

So yeah, when people are allowed to co-author sponsors on Newgrounds, I blame Newgrounds. Is it Newgrounds fault for mofunzone and the person getting sponsored being greedy? No. But when it comes to the co-author showing up on Newgrounds it's Newgrounds' job to take a stand if they don't like what's being done.

Maybe it's just me, but when I see a sponsor co-authored on a flash I don't see it as he's trying to take credit for the flash. I think of it as an easy way for the sponsor, and others too, to keep track of everything sponsored by that particular sponsor here on NG.

This might have been said already, but this thread is so darn long :P

At 7/13/07 12:46 PM, authorblues wrote: but they deserve to get a return on their investment.

Well i disagree there, i think sponsors get VERY fair return on their investment.. i mean if they werent then they probably wouldnt still be in business no?
Every game they sponsor that succeeds roughly banks thousands and thousands of hits because of their replayability and with those hits they can goto an advertiser and say ok heres my award winning games and it can generate XX millions of pageviews, and so to an advertiser its like ok great i can reah a 13-18 yr old bracket and have a reach of 20 mill pageviews, heres your check for 12 grand for the week. Its a lucrative business and trust me the sponsors are well aware of the incoming and outgoing revenues.. theres no defenseless puppy dog and if there is its the 13 yr old kid not the multi million dollar sponsor.

Why should it be on you to look out for them anyway?

At 7/13/07 12:32 PM, DFox wrote: You know that mofunzone is taking advantage of people, taking advantage of the NG co-author system, hurting the industry, yet they can do it with no consequences...

They are hardly hurting the industry through this co-author issue... the authors choose to be sponsored, they choose who to be sponsored by. If someone actually cared enough about the sponsor getting co-authored on one website (yes most flash authors don't consider Newgrounds to be the centre of the Flash world) then they would pick a different sponsor.

To some people (Luis for example) the co-author slot means a lot because of how much they value Newgrounds as a place to put their Flash stuff, but most of these people who are supposedly being opressed really won't give a crap about what shows up in the Newgrounds co-author spot.

(This isn't directed at DFox, it just seemed like the most appropriate quote)

Forgot to add this:

It's simple math, ill GLADLY give you 400-1000 bucks if your game is gonna generate 5-6 times that for me to put my name in there and market it around.

At 7/13/07 12:59 PM, Luis wrote: It's simple math, ill GLADLY give you 400-1000 bucks if your game is gonna generate 5-6 times that for me to put my name in there and market it around.

I agree with everything you said but that's a little too loose. There is a slight risk on the sponsors part depending on how well the game does. I'm sure they do lose money on some games that don't do well. But like you said, on most games they are very profitable, especially on games where they lowball the author and get a very viral game for dirt cheap, which is sickening.

At 7/13/07 12:32 PM, Luis wrote: I think Im gonna lock this up at the end of the day

Oh before you lock it, I'd like to add my two cents:

fuck armorgames

I'm done