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this kinda reminds me of the south park episode where they banned all fireworks except snakes because a kid in north park blew his hands off, so they make ona HUGE snake and light it and it winds up spreading across america because it was just that big.

Ohio's laws are stupid. You can buy whatever you want, but you have to sign a thing that you will not use them in state. All I have to say about that is: DERP!

At 6/28/07 07:38 PM, RydiaLockheart wrote: We have shitloads of fireworks here in Pennsylvania. Stands on the road, sold in stores, you name it. Stop on by if you wanna blow stuff up that badly.

Ya but we cant get the big shit like mortars =(. At least we got what we got.

within theory, you could make a bomb with fireworks...

At 6/29/07 02:07 AM, dukemaster4 wrote:

At 6/28/07 08:08 PM, The-Kerberos wrote: Good. I'm all for it. Go to a hospital on the fourth of July and take a visit around the Emergency ward. Trust me, the smell of burnt flesh will follow you for a few days. I see absolutely no reason for a huge increase in fires, injuries, and fatalities, so that people can enjoy some pretty lights. Ridiculous.

That was a statement out of ignorance. You must live in a city of dumbasses if the "hospital smells of burning flesh." I live in wisconsin and people around my city light off arieal fireworks all the time. Including shells and huge ass cakes(multi-shot arieals). There has not been an injury for ten years and the injury was minor burns. Remember what I said, a kid is more likely to harm himself with a pencil than a firework.

How is it out of ignorance? Most of my childhood was spent around the hospital simply because my father worked there. And on the fourth of the July and the days before and after it, there are multiple burn injuries, some extremely serious, some minor, but in large quantity all the same. I do not believe all fire works should be banned but that they should not be sold to civilians. Like people said, it takes one idiot to ruin it for the rest of us, but the problem is that it isn't one idiot. It's a plethora of idiots. Either certain fireworks should be removed, or all 'sold over the counter' fireworks should be removed. It is irrelevant how unfair it is, because danger still does exist as a result of the holiday. People can and do die/suffer injury, fires can and are started, and sometimes they burn out of control.

Please, tell me why exactly this potential danger should be allowed so that people can enjoy pretty lights? True, fireworks are amusing and I shall admit that. In that case, only allow the large firework shows that are hosted/supervised by competent professionals.

You know what ought to be legalized? C4 explosive. Sure, there's people out there that could get hurt or killed using it, but why should my ability to celebrate the fourth of July by blowing up a massive pile of crap in an enormous explosion be limited by the stupidity of others?

At 6/28/07 04:03 PM, dukemaster4 wrote: Currently the NFPA (National fire protection agency) is making movements to try to ban consumer fireworks. I think this is just bullshit. They are using statistics of child injuries of fireworks as their weapon however a child is more likely to hurt themself with a fucking pencil than a firework. So LETS BAN PENCILS AS WELL!!!!!!!!!

I joined the fireworks alliance to stop the movement.

What makes me pissed is that they are using a child's death to get to people. A young boy was killed last year because he was sruck with a consumer firework. However I find to be bullshit because the family or somebody else didn't follow the safety instruction correctly and that resulted in the child's death. No offense to the family but banning fireowkrs is not the answer.

I do not want to see fireworks be banned because it ruins the 4th of July and will displease many americans. I enjoy fireworks and Im also almost 18 so I will be able to buy them myself. Me and my family follow the safety instructions and make sure nobody gets hurt.

I agree 100%, as tempting as it may be to take 'preventive action' on these sorts of things. They are BOUND to happen, you can't stop everything, shit happens, sad and distressing as it may be, that's life. And i'll bet if that kid didn't die from a firework, he'd have probably died from some other cause. However, since this seems to be a fairly obscure agency, I doubt they'll win, and the Republicans'll probly jump in to 'defend patriotism'. And on this issue... I agree.

A death from fireworks DOESN'T = equal banning fireworks.
I mean... think of all the deaths from CARS... and so much preventive action has been taken yet people still die from car crashes, begin run over... etc. ... why don't we ban cars... and sex... and alcohol.... and pencils... and rocks... and just raise people in automated test tubes filled with Styrofoam objects so that they can't get hurt. Until they commit suicide from boredom.....
Then we'll keep the human population strapped down with cushioned straps in test tubes so they stay alive... Of course we'll end up defeating the whole damn point of LIVING by making it NOT WORTH living....

Ech.... people these days. Any petitions to counter this I can sign?

I'm going to run over there and piss on them.

psh the problem is that kids arent being taught to be safe with fireworks in effective ways these days. My dad tells me how he and buddies used to light off M80's all the time and they learned after being to close when they went of or getting burned.

seems like now if a kid gets hurt from fireworks its automatically the company that produced said fireworks fault.

At 6/28/07 10:50 PM, deepspace wrote: Even if fireworks are banned. I'm sure plenty of people will start to smuggle in fireworks.

the black market and the mafia sure will profit

At 6/30/07 06:51 AM, Cheekyvincent wrote:

At 6/28/07 10:50 PM, deepspace wrote: Even if fireworks are banned. I'm sure plenty of people will start to smuggle in fireworks.

the black market and the mafia sure will profit

Just like they do with the drug prohibition, eh? But all political insinuations aside, I doubt we'll see gangsters on the streets saying "heeyy kid, you wanna try some of these fireworks? first one's always free!". People will probably just cross the border.

They still shouldn't be illegal, though.

Geez i hate people who try to use that kind of stuff, like they say that if you dont use your seatbelt, your gonna get hurt more possible that wearing one. They say that because they use the wreaks with-in 2 miles of your home. The lie in there that they dont tell is that you drive move often within two miles of your home, if they widen it they charts would turn i bet....this is the government's way to take all of fun away and replace it with hardwork, and make all of use serve atlease two years in the military...

At 6/29/07 05:46 PM, IllustriousPotentate wrote: You know what ought to be legalized? C4 explosive. Sure, there's people out there that could get hurt or killed using it, but why should my ability to celebrate the fourth of July by blowing up a massive pile of crap in an enormous explosion be limited by the stupidity of others?

Hhmm. An explosive designed to blow things the fuck up.

And an explosivie designed to shoot fucking lights in the god damm fucking sky.

Seriously, are you fucking joking?

Seriously, were talking about fireworks. The intent to show lights into the sky, and most damages resulting from are damaged limbs and hands.

If private contractors decide to start using fireworks to blow up the base of a building, come talk to me. Otherwise keep your idiotic slippery slope comparisons to yourself.

At 6/29/07 05:26 PM, The-Kerberos wrote:

At 6/29/07 02:07 AM, dukemaster4 wrote:

At 6/28/07 08:08 PM, The-Kerberos wrote:

blah blah blah
No.

As a united states citizen and a few days from legal age of buying fireworks, I believe that I have every right to buy fireworks. Our family is safe, we enjoy them, and I will be damned if some dumbass kids ruin it for us, because they are too dumb to handle them.

Another thing, you must have lived in a larger city because I swear no one is hurt from fireworks where I live.

At 6/30/07 11:08 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote: If private contractors decide to start using fireworks to blow up the base of a building, come talk to me. Otherwise keep your idiotic slippery slope comparisons to yourself.

You can invoke the slippery slope argument all you want. However, no one in this thread can give a valid reason why unlicensed sales of an explosive used only for decoration, yet capable of causing damage, fires, as well as injuries and deaths, is a good idea.

Fireworks were the cause of 13 fatalities, 8,500 injuries, 7,000 fires,
and $40 million in property loss in 1998. [Source]

And the reasons why?

"But fireworks are cool!"
"Stupid people are the ones that cause the injuries."

Those are not valid reasons. C4 may be an extreme comparison, but the fact of the matter is, fireworks are explosives. They are dangerous, they are deadly. There is no reason whatsoever why unlicensed sales of fireworks is a good idea.

At 6/30/07 11:53 PM, IllustriousPotentate wrote:

At 6/30/07 11:08 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

, as well as injuries and deaths, is a good idea.

Fireworks were the cause of 13 fatalities, 8,500 injuries, 7,000 fires,
and $40 million in property loss in 1998. [Source]

wow thats kinda 9 years ago dumbass.

Besides if you look at the chart the more fireworks there are the less injuries there are. It is because people understand how to use fireworks safely now and Im pretty sure the injury rate is not that high.

Your information is not impressive.

At 7/1/07 12:24 AM, dukemaster4 wrote:

At 6/30/07 11:53 PM, IllustriousPotentate wrote:

At 6/30/07 11:08 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

, as well as injuries and deaths, is a good idea.

Fireworks were the cause of 13 fatalities, 8,500 injuries, 7,000 fires,
and $40 million in property loss in 1998. [Source]

wow thats kinda 9 years ago dumbass.

Yeah, you're right. Obviously, the number of injuries and deaths has plummeted.

2006: 11 deaths, 9,200 injuries [Source]

Not a statistically significant change. Dumbass.

Sorry for triple post but thishttp://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2 006-07-04-fireworks-safety_x.htm

shows that in 2005(more recent) that the injuries were 3.6 per 100,000 pounds of fireworks. Compared to 6.3 in 1976.

People are safer now, it is the dumbasses that make headline news because they blow their fingers off. All and all fireworks do not cause that many or even that bad of injuries. None if you are safe and not a dumbass.

Seriously lets all ruin it for the rest of us because dumbasses have to try stupid stuff.

At 7/1/07 12:29 AM, dukemaster4 wrote: Besides if you look at the chart the more fireworks there are the less injuries there are. It is because people understand how to use fireworks safely now and Im pretty sure the injury rate is not that high.

Your information is not impressive.

Correlation =/= causation. There could be several other factors. An increased number of professionally-managed firework shows and/or larger professionally-managed shows, for one.

Besides, even the source itself states:

This table should be interpreted with caution. First, the logical unit of exposure is
number of devices consumed instead of the weight of the devices, because a person is
exposed to injury when a device is consumed (i.e., lit). Injuries per 100,000 fireworks
devices imported might be more meaningful. Weight over-represents heavy devices and
under-represents light devices. There is no reason to assume that a heavy device is
inherently more dangerous than a light device because the weight of the device includes
other things than just the amount of explosive material.

Regardless, still nobody can give a valid reason why explosives used merely for aesthetic purposes should be sold without a license, even after causing 11 deaths and 9,200 injuries last year.

Wow, 9,200.

That is one out of every 32608.

You are honestly trying to tell me fireworks are that dangerous?

At 7/1/07 12:35 AM, dukemaster4 wrote: Seriously lets all ruin it for the rest of us because dumbasses have to try stupid stuff.

The problem with that moronic attitude is that many times, the person lighting the fireworks aren't the ones injured.

Morons giving sparklers to toddlers, morons setting other people's property on fire, etc. etc.

At 7/1/07 12:42 AM, dukemaster4 wrote: Wow, 9,200.

That is one out of every 32608.

No, it isn't, because many Americans are smart enough not to touch fireworks. You need to divide 9,200 by the number of people using fireworks, not the total population.

You are honestly trying to tell me fireworks are that dangerous?

Yes! Think about it. 9,200 people are injured every year, and fireworks are only widely used 3, maybe 4 days out of the year at most.

This is all skirting around the crux of the issue. The only two reasons that have been given to support the unlicensed sale of fireworks is "Ooh! Aah! Pretty!" and "Only stupid people get hurt"--which isn't even true.

At 6/30/07 11:53 PM, IllustriousPotentate wrote:

At 6/30/07 11:08 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

You can invoke the slippery slope argument all you want. However, no one in this thread can give a valid reason why unlicensed sales of an explosive used only for decoration, yet capable of causing damage, fires, as well as injuries and deaths, is a good idea.

It's not a good idea, and it's not a bad idea. It's a simple idea. It's not because of a firework that people place it in thier mouths and light it. The people are often the reason for the dangers and small amounts of damages that result from it.

Really, if the government wants to start restriciting things to us that have the very chance of danger and damage, just because clearly we can't look out for ourselves, restrict the sale of private bonfires or other fires.
Gun sales as well should be taken away from, because clearly they serve almost no purpose.

Thats your equation of slippery slope argument. Because, dear god, lets not have anything that even has the smallest chance or capability to cause damages.

According to this site , there are around 42,000 accidents in 1995 involving TV's and TV sets. Since the only nature of TV's is for entertainment, we should be them all together to save these people from themselves.

Fireworks were the cause of 13 fatalities, 8,500 injuries, 7,000 fires,
and $40 million in property loss in 1998. [Source]

Now, can you get me the amount of fireworks purchased or used in 1998 as well?

Those are not valid reasons. C4 may be an extreme comparison, but the fact of the matter is, fireworks are explosives. They are dangerous, they are deadly. There is no reason whatsoever why unlicensed sales of fireworks is a good idea.

Because Big Brother knows whats best for you.

So they're banning them on the count that parents are stupid enough to let there children play with a type of explosive. Seems REALLY fair that we lose out because people are idiots

At 7/1/07 09:59 AM, MortifiedPenguins wrote: It's not a good idea, and it's not a bad idea. It's a simple idea.

When they cause that much injury and that much damage, we can't afford to have a simple idea.

It's not because of a firework that people place it in thier mouths and light it.

No, it's not. But you can be a professional pyrotechnician, and still get injured. There is a great inherent risk with working with black powder.

The people are often the reason for the dangers and small amounts of damages that result from it.

If that's the case, why not license it? If stupid people are causing most of the problems, why not try remove the stupid people from the equation, and prevent the ER's and first responders from being burdened with firework victims on the 4th, and save the tens of millions in dollars worth of damage?

Really, if the government wants to start restriciting things to us that have the very chance of danger and damage, just because clearly we can't look out for ourselves, restrict the sale of private bonfires or other fires.

In many places, bonfires or other outdoor burning is illegal, for many of the same reasons as fireworks, the risk of property damage and injury.

Gun sales as well should be taken away from, because clearly they serve almost no purpose.

When was the last time you could just walk into Wal*Mart and see a pallet of guns sitting out for anyone to walk up and purchase? There are regulations involved.

Thats your equation of slippery slope argument. Because, dear god, lets not have anything that even has the smallest chance or capability to cause damages.

According to this site , there are around 42,000 accidents in 1995 involving TV's and TV sets. Since the only nature of TV's is for entertainment, we should be them all together to save these people from themselves.

#1: Of course there's going to be more injuries with TV's. Almost everyone uses or passes in close proximity to a TV at some point every day. Few people go out every night and shoot off fireworks.

#2: It's not the number of accidents the product causes, it's why it causes it. Fireworks are inherently dangerous. Professional pyrotechnicians get injured by fireworks. Black powder is a volatile substance, even in the most professionally made firework. When you get down to the $1.99 made in a Chinese sweatshop specials, there's always a risk for disaster.

Fireworks were the cause of 13 fatalities, 8,500 injuries, 7,000 fires,
and $40 million in property loss in 1998. [Source]

Now, can you get me the amount of fireworks purchased or used in 1998 as well?

The source has the number of pounds of fireworks. But a more accurate measure would be if you can find the number of people that use fireworks in any given year.

Because Big Brother knows whats best for you.

Big Brother has nothing to do with it. I don't need Big Brother telling me that allowing any Joe Schmo to walk in to their local Wal*Mart and buy a box of fireworks with enough gunpowder inside to blow his head off or set the neightbor's house on fire isn't a good idea. Any sort of regulation--age restrictions, a simple permit, anything--would be better than the "Here's some gunpowder, now be safe" attitude towards fireworks.

the danger of fireworks lies in the lack of practice. you only get them twice a year, with 7 and 5 months between uses, if they legalized them year round, people could practice and therefore,have safe holidays.

There's only one way I support a ban on fireworks - the 5th of November is called Fireworks Night (actually, Guy Fawkes', but people are so uneducated these days...), so can I please not have to put up with a week's worth of constant firework bombardment?

If it's midweek, it can go from Friday to the next Sunday. Come on, fireworks displays can't be so interesting you're having them nine days later!!!

Oh, and the UK basically banned fireworks from sale apart from at the following times:
Guy Fawkes
New Year
Chinese New Year
Eid
Diwali

In other words, it's only a space of six months we get bombarded with them at random intervals. Strange there's so many white chavvy kids celebrating Eid, though...

At 7/1/07 10:35 AM, IllustriousPotentate wrote:

At 7/1/07 09:59 AM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

When they cause that much injury and that much damage, we can't afford to have a simple idea.

Why, The government doesn't have an obligation to protect ourselves from ourselves.

No, it's not. But you can be a professional pyrotechnician, and still get injured. There is a great inherent risk with working with black powder.

Reason why there are warning lables and stickers on these things. You take the chance when you use it. I know I do.

If that's the case, why not license it? If stupid people are causing most of the problems, why not try remove the stupid people from the equation, and prevent the ER's and first responders from being burdened with firework victims on the 4th, and save the tens of millions in dollars worth of damage?

I would actually be in favor of some sort of class that can be held at a local highschool or something. As long as the cost for the license or class is relatively low, then yes. I would support something like this.

In many places, bonfires or other outdoor burning is illegal, for many of the same reasons as fireworks, the risk of property damage and injury.

Can you pull something up on this. Because last time I checked, you just had to alert the Fire Department if your blaze was at a big enough level.

When was the last time you could just walk into Wal*Mart and see a pallet of guns sitting out for anyone to walk up and purchase? There are regulations involved.

For a pellet Gun. Are you serious?

Be 18, have a license( or some form of Identification), have your money. Then you can have it.

#1: Of course there's going to be more injuries with TV's. Almost everyone uses or passes in close proximity to a TV at some point every day. Few people go out every night and shoot off fireworks.

But thats what I asked for. You gave me statisitcs for injuries and damages cause by Fireworks in 1998. Can you also give me a number or amount of fireworks purchase during that year as well?

More then likely the number purchased and used is excedelling high and that these injuries and deaths are just a small minority of it.

Big Brother has nothing to do with it. I don't need Big Brother telling me that allowing any Joe Schmo to walk in to their local Wal*Mart and buy a box of fireworks with enough gunpowder inside to blow his head off or set the neightbor's house on fire isn't a good idea. Any sort of regulation--age restrictions, a simple permit, anything--would be better than the "Here's some gunpowder, now be safe" attitude towards fireworks.

The thing is. There are already age restricitons. And in some states, already permits.

But that wasn't the nature of the topic, nor the answer to all of your "damages and death".

Because, as we all know, it can't be dangerous if you have permit.

They made that law because some retards are too stupid when they get them and experiment with them like tieing them together or etc.

At 7/1/07 11:00 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote: Why, The government doesn't have an obligation to protect ourselves from ourselves.

No, but it does have the obligation to protect me from others. I don't want my house set on fire by my drunken neighbor who's idea of fun is lighting bottle rockets. I don't want to get hurt because of someone else's misuse of fireworks.

I would actually be in favor of some sort of class that can be held at a local highschool or something. As long as the cost for the license or class is relatively low, then yes. I would support something like this.

Then what's the problem? That's what I've been saying all along--unlicensed sales is a bad idea. Any sort of license will do better. It wouldn't even require a class. You could go down to the local courthouse to the permitting office, and take a brief quiz, pass, and there you go.

Can you pull something up on this. Because last time I checked, you just had to alert the Fire Department if your blaze was at a big enough level.

I can't pull up any specific ordinance at the moment, but it's been widely reported here in Georgia that, due to drought conditions, all outdoor burning is banned. Usually, these are only temporary and/or seasonal restrictions where they exist.

But thats what I asked for. You gave me statisitcs for injuries and damages cause by Fireworks in 1998. Can you also give me a number or amount of fireworks purchase during that year as well?

No, I can't, and even if I could, it wouldn't be the correct statistic for comparison. You would need to compare the number of injuries to the number of people that use fireworks annually.

If 100 people buy x fireworks, and 5 of the people get injured, the injury rate is still the same as if 100 people buy 2x fireworks, and 5 of the people get injured.

More then likely the number purchased and used is excedelling high and that these injuries and deaths are just a small minority of it.

Without the number of people that use fireworks annually, it would be impossible to make any such conclusion.

The thing is. There are already age restricitons. And in some states, already permits.

What types of permits?

Because, as we all know, it can't be dangerous if you have permit.

No, they're still dangerous even with a permit. But, if nothing else, a permit would show that the person buying the fireworks is actually thought this out before hand--not just walking in off the street and going, "Ooh! Fireworks!"