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At 6/28/07 09:30 PM, SyntheticTacos wrote:

We can hope that there will be democratic reform but we should not regard them as being better than us human-rights wise at all.

At least they have the balls not to listen to enviornmental wacko's to cause their economy be become shambles (salutes the US).

At 6/28/07 10:21 AM, JoS wrote: if they continue the slow rate of growth

Uhh? What?

If you think our economic growth is slow I would hate to hear your assesement of Canadas economic growth. Actually, I wouldnt want to hear it at all because its bunk and you just completly bullshitted this post.

At 6/28/07 06:27 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: considering the US economy is still performing better than any major industrialized nation.

China isnt consided major and industrialized?

At 6/26/07 11:43 PM, PretzelsDino wrote: (ie: China)

China has only like 7% if our debt. And they will not dump our debt because they NEED our markets. We are intertwined to the death.

At 6/29/07 04:44 PM, Demosthenez wrote:

At 6/28/07 10:21 AM, JoS wrote: if they continue the slow rate of growth

Uhh? What?

If you think our economic growth is slow I would hate to hear your assesement of Canadas economic growth. Actually, I wouldnt want to hear it at all because its bunk and you just completly bullshitted this post.

I hope you were joking. The US growth rate as of 2006 was 3.2%, compared to China at 10%. US industrial growth was just over 4%, while China had 22% growth in industry. Whats even more important is that China has a positive trade balance of around $170 billion, while the US has a negative trade balance of over $800 billion.

Canada's GDP growth is 2.7% and our industrial growth rate is essentially zero. I do not really see how that impacts my arguement though. You are simply deflecting by bringing up things that are complete irrelevant to the topic at hand. We do however have a positive trade balance.

So while you may have a high growth in comparison to other developed coutnries like Canada, Germany, the UK and Japan, you fail in comparison to China and India.

The is US economy is going down, how? Why, the Canadian dollar is $0.94 USD! Every time our dollar goes up it's because you guys are doing something expensive, e.g. Iraq.

The only thing you'll have to worry about are Canadians flocking US shopping malls during Christamas, if your dollar stays or goes down. You are fine , there will be no depression.

At 6/29/07 11:23 PM, JoS wrote: I hope you were joking.

No I am not. Our growth rate is very healthy. VERY HEALTHY. Canadas is very healthy. But to prove our economies are weak you compare them to one of the fastest growing economies in the world? THAT has got to be some kind of joke. When exactly do you plan on proving we have a "slow rate of growth?"

So while you may have a high growth in comparison to other developed coutnries like Canada, Germany, the UK and Japan, you fail in comparison to China and India.

They are emerging markets and industrializing. Big surprise there. And you want to go ahead and make the argument Botswana is a stronger economy that the United States just because they have higher GDP growth rates? Or do you finally get the picture your criticism had no merit?

Here's a better example.

China is like a morbidly overweight individual who starts living the lifestyle of a professional athelete, the rate at which they lose weight is going to be faster than that of an average weight person seeking to tone they're muscles. [Infact, the average weight person would most likely gain weight due to muscle mass being heavier then fat]

That's just a basic analogy. \

China however has a problem with obeying the ethical slash enviormentalistic laws which liberals strive to enforce in america; but hardly seem to care whether the chinese obey them or not. [the main reason why some conservatives argue that liberals really are treasonous]

At 6/27/07 12:03 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: there are A LOT of countries whose debts are higher in proportion to their income

*cough*Japan*cough*

At 6/30/07 10:26 AM, Der-Lowe wrote:

At 6/27/07 12:03 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: there are A LOT of countries whose debts are higher in proportion to their income

*cough*Japan*cough*

Yes, infact my dad made that point to me years ago about the whole debt issue. Most countries however, united states included, would rather nag more generous countries to repay they're debts then just make a clean balance, since everyone's in debt. [most countries are, some are not. ]

At 6/27/07 12:03 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: there are A LOT of countries whose debts are higher in proportion to their income

Here's a lionk, if anyone is interested in the subject :)

At 6/30/07 06:01 AM, Demosthenez wrote:

At 6/29/07 11:23 PM, JoS wrote: I hope you were joking.

No I am not. Our growth rate is very healthy. VERY HEALTHY. Canadas is very healthy. But to prove our economies are weak you compare them to one of the fastest growing economies in the world? THAT has got to be some kind of joke. When exactly do you plan on proving we have a "slow rate of growth?"

When I used the term slow, I mean in comparison to other countries. Yes they have a decent growth rate for a developed country, but if China is able to keep up its growth anywhere enar its current rate the US and its COMPARABLY slower rate they are fucked.

Their growth rate may be fast for a developed coutnry but in the overall scheme it is realtively slow.

At 6/28/07 10:21 AM, JoS wrote: Also despite the debt being $10 trillion or some number like that, the majority of that is internal debt (ie owed to US citizens through bonds) the rest ($3.5 I believe) is foriegn debt owed to countries like Japan, Saudi Arabia and such.

No, external debt and public debt are two entirely separate things.

Go back and look at the list I provided, that was external debt. The US external debt is lower in proportion to our economy than A LOT of countries who most people would never consider to be highly in debt.

But if you want to talk about public debt, then even Canada for example has a higher public debt in percentage of income (% GDP) than the US does.

Take a look

Canada: 65.40%
USA: 64.70%

Then there's countries that are WAY up there that nobody would ever think of saying are higher in debt than the US:

Japan: 176.20%
Italy: 107.80%
Belgium: 90.30%
Portugal: 67.40%
Germany: 66.80%

Get that? There are a lot of countries that have both higher external and public debt than the US.

It is a MYTH that the US is the highest in debt. It's a myth that it's drastically hurting our economy, or that our supposedly relatively high debt is a sign of our poor economic performance. All myths.

The US economy is still outperforming every other economy in the world. The US is the world's most competitive economy, as it has been for the past 14 consecutive years.

At 6/28/07 08:18 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: Cellardor i just want to let you know that i love you.

You articulate your arguments perfectly, You provide evidence; much of which is never even questioned [a good way to 'cheat' by making the person's argument invalid, and to assure your teamates who might have they're beleifs waver, return to your side].

How dare I provide FACTS rather than opinion huh? How dare I have the audacity to focus my argument on the raw, solid numbers rather than argue on ideas of my own like others do?

You use something called a CONJECTURE

Conjecture... it only appears to be conjecture to people who are too stupid and/or stubborn to understand the actual reality of the situation. Only a person who wants to repeat myths, rather than understand the truth will consider what I said to be conjecture.

It's funny how you think the facts I provide are to my detriment in the argument, yet to you there is nothing wrong with someone else basing their entire argument solely on their own nonsense that I disprove with the facts I provide that you say is conjecture.

Check the numbers, check the sources that I gave and actually muster a rebuttal instead of having to focus your entire participation in the thread around the way I argue, rather than what I argue.

At 6/29/07 04:44 PM, Demosthenez wrote:

At 6/28/07 06:27 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: considering the US economy is still performing better than any major industrialized nation.

China isnt consided major and industrialized?

Nope. China is a developing country, it's not already "developed" because it has low GDP per capita, low score on the Human Development Index etc..

It's not considered industrialized, yet. Same thing with countries like India and Brazil.

At 7/1/07 05:22 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 6/28/07 10:21 AM, JoS wrote: Also despite the debt being $10 trillion or some number like that, the majority of that is internal debt (ie owed to US citizens through bonds) the rest ($3.5 I believe) is foriegn debt owed to countries like Japan, Saudi Arabia and such.

No, external debt and public debt are two entirely separate things.

Hence I broke it down. When most people toss out the $10 trillion or what ever it is rigth now, they don't seperate the two from each other.

I think you have spent so much time disagreeing with me that when we are seeing relatively eye to eye you still think I am disagreeing with you out of habit.

The economy is about to go into deppresion

At 7/2/07 04:07 PM, trevor-williams wrote: The economy is about to go into deppresion

Way to back up your claims and read the thread before posting in it.

At 7/1/07 03:08 AM, JoS wrote: Their growth rate may be fast for a developed coutnry but in the overall scheme it is realtively slow.

Any country would pray for sustained growth rates of 3%. In the overall scheme of things that is a high growth rate, considering all the countries who have negative growth rates and are moribund with 0% or 1% growth rates.

I still have no idea what your criticism is because 3% growth is more than healthy, it is downright awesome. And China is not yet fully developed, of course they are going to have higher rates of growth. DUH. This is stupid.

At 7/2/07 03:16 PM, JoS wrote:

At 7/1/07 05:22 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 6/28/07 10:21 AM, JoS wrote: Also despite the debt being $10 trillion or some number like that, the majority of that is internal debt (ie owed to US citizens through bonds) the rest ($3.5 I believe) is foriegn debt owed to countries like Japan, Saudi Arabia and such.

No, external debt and public debt are two entirely separate things.

Hence I broke it down. When most people toss out the $10 trillion or what ever it is rigth now, they don't seperate the two from each other.

No, no, no. The $10 trillion we were talking about is just the entire US external debt, you suggested that most of that was to US citizens, which isn't true.

The US external debt of $10 trillion is about 75% of GDP, which is lower than a lot of very well-to-do countries.

The PUBLIC debt (internal debt to other citizens) is 64.7% of GDP so about $8.4 trillion and is entirely separate from that $10 trillion external debt. But this is also lower than many prosperous countries in proportion to income.

I think you have spent so much time disagreeing with me that when we are seeing relatively eye to eye you still think I am disagreeing with you out of habit.

No, because even though your mistake was in defense of the US, it was still factually incorrect. If I agreed with you, it would have made the US look better, but I'd rather take a stance in criticism of the US and be correct, than take a stance in support of the US and be wrong.

At 6/28/07 08:51 PM, Memorize wrote:
The US should stop being a superpower.

Hah. Fat chance that'll happen.

No pun intended..

America is at it's peak of power and they're never going to give it up, especially when you have American's with unsatisfying demands and even greater egos. Sadly, wishful thinking won't get you far :[

Maybe it might get the enviornmentalist wack jobs to back off.

What's wrong with environmentalists!? Yes, there is a fine line between concern and obsession, but the Earth is going through some unstoppable 'mood changes', so it's best to at least help reduce the damage done in the end if you can help it.

At 7/2/07 10:39 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: No, no, no. The $10 trillion we were talking about is just the entire US external debt, you suggested that most of that was to US citizens, which isn't true.

I haven't checked the stats since I took a course on it two years ago, I didnt realize your debt was going up so fast.

The biggest problem though, atleast i would think so is not the current debt, but the projected the debt. The amount of money you will lose in medicaid and SS in the enxt ten years because of babyboomers is staggering.

AND WE DONT EVEN HAVE THE TREMENDOUS WELFARE STATES THAT EUROPE (and even Canada) HAS.

Yeah, and people say welfare states are good. Pssh. Even the limited welfare apparatuses we have in America are going to bankrupt us. I do agree with you on that point JoS, America will kill itself if we do not rectify our projected debt.

Glad all the bleeding hearts out there are so concerned with everyone around now they dont give a fuck about who is coming after them that is going to have to be paying for the shit they create. I mean, they gonna be dead, right? Who cares?