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At 7/6/07 05:04 PM, Drakim wrote:

Not to be accusing-ish, but, I think it is a think matter of selective observation. Whenever you see an atheist that is an asshole, you think "ah, another asshole atheist. They just keep popping up", while, when it happens that you meet a nice atheist or asshole Christian, you won't think about it so much, because you aren't "keeping count" in the same way about them.

You might be sorta true, but Im just saying the only relligious people trying to convert people that I have sean where a pair of Jahovas witnesses (theye are freinds with my mom), and my aunt (apearently Im not christian enuf because I dont want to watch a movie about Moses with her)

At 7/6/07 01:55 PM, Drakim wrote:

In the rest of the world, the general trend goes that the more intelligent you are, and/or educated, the less likely you are to believe in God(s).

Kind of funny how you don't fit in to that "more educated" group.

At 7/6/07 06:16 PM, Memorize wrote:

At 7/6/07 01:55 PM, Drakim wrote:

In the rest of the world, the general trend goes that the more intelligent you are, and/or educated, the less likely you are to believe in God(s).

Kind of funny how you don't fit in to that "more educated" group.

If you are going to insult me, at least do it right. I'm quite highly educated/just finishing it. It would be my intelligence that you should put to question.

I'm sure you'll do better next time.

At 7/6/07 06:46 PM, Drakim wrote:

If you are going to insult me, at least do it right. I'm quite highly educated/just finishing it. It would be my intelligence that you should put to question.

Ok, i'll do just that.

So you're just finishing it and you're 19? Interesting. I'm 2 years younger, already in the "highly educated" phase and not finished. Fascinating.

I, myself, am an atheist, and I will say that most people do end up critisizing anyone who believes in a higher power. But I am not one of those people. Not everyone one group of persons is exactly alike, that's what I've felt, we're individuals and we're able to choose for ourselfs the type of life we should live, and what you believe in.

Something that did bother me though is that you said that atheists never help the poor? I may not believe in God, but I do belive in a better life for those who have had it rough, I'm an environmentalist (which there shouldn't be a group of, but a population), and I'm an active member of the Defenders of Wildlife. It doesn't matter what group or religion you come from, but how you are actually raised. You've got to be carefully taught as Lieutennaint (spell check) Cable said in South Pacific.

I've always heard the "more education, less god" statistic, but I've never understood it. I'm wondering if anyone else knows WHY that correlation exists?

And just cause I like to fuck up the stastistic:

http://ed.sjtu.edu.cn/rank/2006/ARWU2006_Top1 00.htm

I'm a graduating senior at #21.

I'm Roman Catholic.

At 7/6/07 08:40 PM, Imperator wrote: I've always heard the "more education, less god" statistic, but I've never understood it. I'm wondering if anyone else knows WHY that correlation exists?

And just cause I like to fuck up the stastistic:

http://ed.sjtu.edu.cn/rank/2006/ARWU2006_Top1 00.htm

I'm a graduating senior at #21.

I'm Roman Catholic.

Statistic over trends does not mean that everybody and everything is like it. It means that the general trend, often over a very large place, is like this. Since we humans live in one place at the time, with usually only a handful of close friends that we know very personally, we won't see such a trend ourselves. We'll simply see what we have around us, not the average across the country.

As for why?

I think it is because a lot of things in the world is attributed to God. But, as you are more educated, you'll start to see that many things in the world have a natural explanation.

For example, you may be thanking your God for the freedom you enjoy. Then you read up on some history and see that freedom hasn't been for everybody for a very long time, until people fought for it.

Or, perhaps you are amazed about how well everything looks designed into the world, then you read up on evolution, and understand how things adapt and change in order to fit their surroundings.

As you learn more and more, you get more critical of things around you and yourself. I think that the "lazy theists" die out then.

I'm not saying that only dumb people believe in God, or that knowing stuff automatically makes you a non-theist, but, I'd dare say there are a lot of people that believe in God because their parents did, and have never really thought much about it. They have never personally taken a stance that God exists, just kinda floated with the crowd. So, when education and lots of thinking comes in play, a lot of people take more firm stances, which means that you get more people who are sure in their belief in God, and more people that don't believe in God.

This, I think, is why there are more atheists among the highly educated.

One funny thing that arises because of this, is an old argument about how "the world shows that God exists" thingy. I'm sure you have all heard it.
While, statistic shows that, the more you study the world (scientists are among the least believing in God of all professions), the less likely you are to think that the world shows God exists.

At 7/6/07 08:40 PM, Imperator wrote:

I'm a graduating senior at #21.

I'm Roman Catholic.

I never believed that statistic either, I mean that if there are more relligious scientists, professers, and graduates than atheist ones, than who are you including to make that determination?

answer that drakim

Statistic over trends does not mean that everybody and everything is like it.

Oh I know. I just like to be the example of the opposite being true.

I'm just pointing out the fact that that statistic is a correlation, NOT a causation. I mean, it could be a genetic predisposition. People who are born without a certain level of faith are predisposed to working in certain career fields. The opposite could be true as well; those who don't believe in God are more likely to find themselves in Academia. You're going on the belief that a good portion of scientists start off as theists, and renounce their faith based on their studies. That may not necessarily be true. They may start off as atheists, and be geared (for who knows what reasons) towards working as scientists.

My point is that the "why" is actually going to be speculative at this point in time, and that we shouldn't assume the correlation holds merit in either side of the debate.

I'd be curious to know if any other studies have been done on this, ex "more theists are in the military than atheists" or something similar.

Fun Fact:

There's actually a negative correlation between the number of household appliances a family has and the number of kids they have.

**For those of you who don't understand the difference between correlation and causation, this does NOT mean that buying lots of toasters will cause you to not have kids.

For people who dont belive in a higher being:

Science is logical, right?

So, is it logical to say 0+0=1? No, its not.

So, if we try and use logic to explain how we ended up here, we cant get something from nothing (Big bang) using logic, that is

Now, wouldn't it be simpler to say that there is a higher being that defies logic?

Now, wouldn't it be simpler to say that there is a higher being that defies logic?

It's also easier just to call you a dumbass instead of refuting your comments, but that doesn't really solve anything either......

yeah, scientists accepting a simplier point of view? I'm sorry but that would result in a paradox.

At 7/6/07 02:57 PM, Zoraxe7 wrote:

Maybe, but I live in a small town in massachusetts, I go to one of the moast well funded schools in the area. Education is held to be very important.

Its the ones here that dont do well in school that tend to be atheists and Idiots.

I dont know why its so different here.
Do you got an idea?

First, the fact that you go to a well-funded school does not necessarily mean that you are well educated. it depends completely on the quality and content of your education.

Second, although I have no idea what your school is like, atheists could be doing poorly for a number of different reasons ,including them feeling isolated from the curriculum, not catered to by the school or just generally bullied by other students. Again, I have no idea what your school is like.

Most of my friends in Massachusetts that have grown up Christian, especially the particularly intelligent ones, tend to lose their faith as they grow older.

Atheists and Theists will never see eye to eye.

Don't even bother. Let them have their beliefs and stop worrying about what other people don't believe.

One thing is certain though: any atheist is going to be bargaining for the existence of God and an afterlife when they're in their deathbed. They can pose all they want on how stupid religion is etc. etc. but it all comes down to our mortality. They will bargain and plead for God to show them an afterlife when the moment comes up.

At 7/7/07 04:08 PM, AAraven wrote:

Second, although I have no idea what your school is like, atheists could be doing poorly for a number of different reasons ,including them feeling isolated from the curriculum, not catered to by the school or just generally bullied by other students. Again, I have no idea what your school is like.

Naa, they are the bullies, they blaim everything and usualy drop out of school.
Or become Jocks

At 7/7/07 05:49 PM, NewWorldOver wrote: Atheists and Theists will never see eye to eye.

Don't even bother. Let them have their beliefs and stop worrying about what other people don't believe.

One thing is certain though: any atheist is going to be bargaining for the existence of God and an afterlife when they're in their deathbed. They can pose all they want on how stupid religion is etc. etc. but it all comes down to our mortality. They will bargain and plead for God to show them an afterlife when the moment comes up.

Which God? The Greek afterlife seems pretty swell. Should I convert to Zeus or Hades? Or do I have to accept all the Greek Gods before I get the Greek afterlife?

At 7/7/07 06:37 PM, Togukawa wrote:

Which God? The Greek afterlife seems pretty swell. Should I convert to Zeus or Hades? Or do I have to accept all the Greek Gods before I get the Greek afterlife?

Your thinking of the afterlife for heros, moast people just stand around in a field forever.

Quote."Alternatively you could stop blaming atheists for being responsible for the 'demoralization' of the u.s. actually extend that to stop blaming us for everything.

tell your church to stop condoning, and stop participating in the anal raping of little boys.

stop unnecessarily inhibiting in the advancement of science.

stop ripping off other innocent christians with televangelists read: benny hinn/ ted hagard, inefficient charities and the like.

stop contradicting yourselves and uphold the same morals you so cherish

dont enforce those morals you speak of unto others as though theyre a law

learn to accept criticism considering you like to complain about everything

stop claiming america was founded on christianity and claiming this is what makes it great

accept that you were responsible for slaughters and being fascist in the past and recognize that your bible is one giant orgy of contradictory cow-shit rhetoric.

live your lives frugally and uphold jesus' beliefs considering hes your posterboy

dont claim creationism is a science, can you not taint knowledge and science? and if you hold spite for atheistic-bourne complaints then dont attack the very source of atheism: logic and facts and keep to believing in god through the bible as opposed to convincing kids creationism is real in the form of an alchemy-esque science."

I considerably agree,I happen to be an athiest and live a productive live. Donate to charity. Just because i do not partake in belief in a higher being does not make me any less of a human, a word for the author of this thread " prejudice"

At 7/7/07 12:33 PM, Zoraxe7 wrote: I never believed that statistic either, I mean that if there are more relligious scientists, professers, and graduates than atheist ones, than who are you including to make that determination?

answer that drakim

Uhm, I'm sorry, but I don't understand your question. More theists that graduate? If you are saying that more theists graduate to be scientists than atheist, then that may very well be true. But, in the working field, for example biology, atheists make up 80%. That is more than just a small insignificant change.

If it is true that more theist graduates as scientists than atheist, that means a HECK of a lot of theist convert once they start working with science and studying how the world works. Not a very good thing for the argument I think you were trying to make.

At 7/7/07 01:44 PM, ProBo wrote: For people who dont belive in a higher being:

Science is logical, right?

So, is it logical to say 0+0=1? No, its not.

So, if we try and use logic to explain how we ended up here, we cant get something from nothing (Big bang) using logic, that is

Now, wouldn't it be simpler to say that there is a higher being that defies logic?

Sorry, but that is a very stupid thing to say. To say that we don't know, therefore saying that a God did it, is a large and illogical jump. You can't explain a complex world that we don't understand with an even more super complex super higher being that we don't understand either, AND breaks the little we DO know.

Like, if we found a cake on the moon. It would be next to impossible to explain how it ended up there. As you say, we wouldn't be able to use logic to explain how the cake ended up there.

But, saying that there is a Cake demon that flies around and puts cakes on the moon is even worse than saying "I don't know". You are for all it's worth just making shit up, and creating more problems than solutions.

For example, why would there be a higher being? Why not just a higher force? Like gravity? We could call it creation force. It would be an completely unintelligent force that creates life and moves on.

Or perhaps, in the future, somebody will use a time machine to go back in time and place the first life on earth. And it circles like that back forever.

See what I mean? Making explanations like this is pointless, just like God. If we can prove a God, then more power to him. But, to use him as the default explanation is just being lazy. It's a "Magic man did it!".

At 7/7/07 07:56 PM, Drakim wrote:

See what I mean? Making explanations like this is pointless, just like God. If we can prove a God, then more power to him. But, to use him as the default explanation is just being lazy. It's a "Magic man did it!".

I just think it's funny how it seems to burn you up inside how atheists make up what? 5% of the World population?

At 7/7/07 08:03 PM, Memorize wrote: I just think it's funny how it seems to burn you up inside how atheists make up what? 5% of the World population?

Just as much as it burns me up that like 99% of the world population thought the world was flat before?

Anyways, where I live, being atheist or agnostic is far more common than being Christian. And you know what? Those who are Christian actually behaves Christ-like. Perhaps you should take lessons?

At 7/7/07 08:03 PM, Memorize wrote:

:: I just think it's funny how it seems to burn you up inside how atheists make up what? 5% of the World population?

Actully in the religion/nonreligion top 10 Athiest/Non religion takes up 4th place so you are full of crap

At 7/7/07 08:10 PM, ImaSmartass2 wrote:

Actully in the religion/nonreligion top 10 Athiest/Non religion takes up 4th place so you are full of crap

Atheist is a different group than "non religion". Non religion is just another way of saying "agnostic", who make up a higher percentage than atheists.

wikipedia : 2.3%

http://www.stephenjaygould.org : 4%

At 7/7/07 08:22 PM, Memorize wrote:

At 7/7/07 08:10 PM, ImaSmartass2 wrote:

Actully in the religion/nonreligion top 10 Athiest/Non religion takes up 4th place so you are full of crap

Atheist is a different group than "non religion". Non religion is just another way of saying "agnostic", who make up a higher percentage than atheists.

wikipedia : 2.3%

http://www.stephenjaygould.org : 4%

The definitinon of non-belivers is very hard. Some people don't like the label "atheist" because it is a negative belief. It only shows what you don't belive rather than what you do belive. A lot of people use other terms such as brights, naturalists or humanist.

As for pure numbers, it varies a LOT.

some numbers from diffrent countries

But, no matters. Numbers do not prove anything. Simply being many does not prove anything. It only shows that people think about an issue right now. People might not belive at all in the future, or everybody might belive. It can't destory or wish a God into existance.

At 7/7/07 08:29 PM, Drakim wrote:

The definitinon of non-belivers is very hard. Some people don't like the label "atheist" because it is a negative belief. It only shows what you don't belive rather than what you do belive. A lot of people use other terms such as brights, naturalists or humanist.

I always considered atheism as just a very hardened version of agnostic.

Besides. What better describes "non religous"? Agnostic? Or atheism?

A bit of a difference between "I don't know" and "No, there is not". He said I was full of shit, so I decided to show him that I was not "full of shit".

Besides. What better describes "non religous"? Agnostic? Or atheism?

Agnostic. Atheism expresses a stance "against god" rather than a stance of doubt or non-conclusiveness. The difference is actually greater than most think, and it does have importance.

At least that's always what I've observed......

Christ Almighty.....

We actually agree on something Memorize.....

***Watches skies for 4 Horsemen****

christians made jk rowling change `the sorceror`s stone` to `the philosophers stone`what the hell is up with that?

non-religion? why not just say agnostic or atheist (as in no religion) instead of trying to be some clever jack ass?

yes i know atheist more precisely means no belief in gods, and no that is not a religion, stop saying it is.