Israel wiped off the Map...

[CapitalistSocialist]

Would the Palestinians really have been in a better situation if Israel had never been created? My case for comparison is the people of Lebanon. I could only have seen Palestine been the pawn of one of the other Arab states i.e. Syria or Egypt being ruled by either and Islamist regime or some form of dictatorship.

[altanese-mistress]

Actually, yes, they would be better off. So would the rest of the Middle East. All those terrorist groups we have today? Most of them and their predacessors gained root by promising the destruction of Israel and the reclaiming of Islamic holy lands.

[K-RadPie]

Palestinians have more rights in Israel than they do in Palestine.

[SEXY-FETUS]

We need a truly great man to take care of isreal. Perhaps he could do something with like some gas chambers or somethin, maybe a few scattered ovens here and there. but he needs a bitchin mustache.

[HighlyIllogical]

At 6/17/07 01:20 PM, K-RadPie wrote: Palestinians have more rights in Israel than they do in Palestine.

That's for sure, especially considering that there is no "Palestine." Regardless, if there was, it would be much worse for the "Palestinians" than it is now.

[Tri-Nitro-Toluene]

If Israel didn't exist you could make an argument that the current Fatah Vs Hamas thing wouldn't be happening, so yeah,it is possible that the situation may have been better for them, though overall, it would have made little to no difference as they'd still be poor etc.

[animehater]

At 6/17/07 05:52 PM, Raveinx wrote: Do you see the people of Egypt bitching how bad EGypt gov is?

I'm sure some do

Do you see Iran people bitching how bad Iran gov is?

Yea, that Ahmadinijad (sp) is pretty unpopular I hear.

No israel only came to middle east to cause trouble, war, and destruction.

Or maybe a few jews wanted to go back to what they beleived was theirs yet it was at the time someone elses.

So get your head out of your ass and read history and stop being such an ignorant capitalist

Oh please it's probrably the corporations who planted that anti capitalist bullshit in your head to sell Che t-shirts and make you their unwitting pawn in the first place.

You serve who you hate.

[K-RadPie]

So get your head out of your ass and read history and stop being such an ignorant capitalist

If it weren't for "ignorant capitalists," you wouldn't have a computer, let alone internet, to complain about it in the first place.

[HandsomePete]

At 6/17/07 05:52 PM, Raveinx wrote:

At 6/17/07 01:20 PM, K-RadPie wrote: Palestinians have more rights in Israel than they do in Palestine.

shut up its not much a matter of rights (and they would have more rights in Palestina anyways), Theocracies have not been known forgiving out a lot of rights. Maybe they would be a monarchy, like Saudi Arabia, though... You know, that country where you can get sentenced to death for singing?

Israel has been a devisive force in the Middle East, but if we're ever going to stop fighting over there, (and the West has been fighting the Middle East for thousands of years) a successful democracy is certainly a good way to help get the ball rolling.

[5uicideX]

lets get this straight (US patriots ffs don't kill me)

israel was formed because the US gave the isralites the arms to conquer and control the area now known as israel. one of the reasons they did this was because of americas association with the Jews who fled persecution during the second world war and before. it could be said that this support was because of the idea that jews are very wealthy (PS i dont support this statement). however, all this has done is start what we now know today as terrorism, and the birth of israel could be considered the birth of this, with the PLO.

I used to believe that the palestinians were wrong, and the way they have gone about regaining control is wrong, but it is obvious to me that the state of Israel is a product of american expansionism, and is yet another example of America involving themselves in something that is not they're business.

I do understand that jerusalem was( and still is) a city that belonged to the Jews, but as history progresses, places are Conquered, and it is wrong for an alien force, such as the US, to become involved in something that dosn't concern them. Israel is a false country in my eyes, and although i do not agree with the ways of the Islamic extremists, the world should realise that the palestinians had their land taken from them unfairly.

N.B i have nothing against the US, nor do i against Jews, this is just my humble opinion....

FLAME AWAY

[animehater]

At 6/17/07 06:48 PM, 5uicideX wrote: I have nothing against the US, nor do i against Jews, this is just my humble opinion....

Which just so happens to hate on the Jews and especially the U.S

FLAME AWAY

Done

[5uicideX]

well, isnt the american first amendment freedom of speech? I may not be american but racism can be deemed as freedom of speech, especially since my post is pretty much what happened, without specifics

[animehater]

At 6/17/07 07:21 PM, 5uicideX wrote: Well, isnt the american first amendment freedom of speech?

Sadly

[Me-Patch]

At 6/17/07 06:48 PM, 5uicideX wrote: lets get this straight (US patriots ffs don't kill me)

israel was formed because the US gave the isralites the arms to conquer and control the area now known as israel. one of the reasons they did this was because of americas association with the Jews who fled persecution during the second world war and before. it could be said that this support was because of the idea that jews are very wealthy (PS i dont support this statement). however, all this has done is start what we now know today as terrorism, and the birth of israel could be considered the birth of this, with the PLO.

"Jewish nationalism and messianic tradition led to Zionism, a movement to re-create a Jewish nation in the Land of Israel. Jewish immigration grew steadily after the late nineteenth century and took on added meaning, and gained added external support, in the wake of the Holocaust. The UN General Assembly approved the 1947 UN Partition Plan dividing the territory into two states, with the Jewish area consisting of roughly 55% of the land, and the Arab area consisting of roughly 45%. Jerusalem was to be designated as an international region administered by the UN to avoid conflict over its status."

I used to believe that the palestinians were wrong, and the way they have gone about regaining control is wrong, but it is obvious to me that the state of Israel is a product of american expansionism, and is yet another example of America involving themselves in something that is not they're business.

America supports Israel, we don't own it. The U.S. is just happy to have an ally in the middle east. There is no such thing as "American expansionism", imperialism maybe. The Palistinians are going about regaining control wrong, and if they don't eventualy agree to diplomacy and peace they will ultimately suffer worse than Israel ever will.

I do understand that jerusalem was( and still is) a city that belonged to the Jews, but as history progresses, places are Conquered, and it is wrong for an alien force, such as the US, to become involved in something that dosn't concern them. Israel is a false country in my eyes, and although i do not agree with the ways of the Islamic extremists, the world should realise that the palestinians had their land taken from them unfairly.

Their land was taken by the UN not the US, the US has every right to support it's ally in the middle east. If you support palestinian resistance you support terrorism, whether you want to or not.

[5uicideX]

who gave the UN the right to take the palestinian land? do you not feel that this terrorism that affects the world today may have been averted if the creation of israel had not have happened?

[5uicideX]

At 6/17/07 07:38 PM, Me-Patch wrote:
If you support palestinian resistance you support terrorism, whether you want to or not.

and please do not associate me with terrorist support. although a different organisation, i lost a relative in 9/11, so i DO NOT condone terrorism

[HighlyIllogical]

At 6/17/07 07:43 PM, 5uicideX wrote: who gave the UN the right to take the palestinian land?

Hmm...ya ever heard of the Mandate? The Brits turned it over to the UN.

[5uicideX]

the mandate, and the Israli declaration of independence, meant that many palestinian people were "trapped" under the state of Israels borders. seeing as this post is regarding whether the palastinians would have been in a better situation if Israel hadn't have been formed, i would say the mandate was what started the problems regarding the palastinians in the first place. It meant that, in a similar way to the pre WW2 Germany, people of the original nation were trapped by the laws of another country or countries, and that the inevitable ending was the ancshluss in the case of Austria/Germany, and terrorist actions to try and reunite those in the gaza strip and other parts of Israel-controlled Palestine with Palestine itself.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 6/17/07 05:52 PM, Raveinx wrote:

At 6/17/07 01:20 PM, K-RadPie wrote:

:So get your head out of your ass and read history and stop being such an ignorant capitalist

and socialism is the way to go get the fuck out of here you poor ass

[K-RadPie]

At 6/17/07 06:48 PM, 5uicideX wrote: lets get this straight (US patriots ffs don't kill me)
FLAME AWAY

That's Britain, not the US you're thinking of.

And for Israel haters, I dare you go to Israel, then Palestine, come back, and still say the Palestinian government has more of a right to be there than Israel's.

[Dr-Worm]

At 6/17/07 05:52 PM, Raveinx wrote: shut up its not much a matter of rights (and they would have more rights in Palestina anyways)

No, no they wouldn't. See below.

its more a matter that they would be sovereign and free, and not ruled by Israel / USA capitalism.

Heh. They'd be sovereign, alright, but free? Under a harsh radical Islamic regime? I seriously doubt it.

Islamofascist state where you could get stoned to death for smiling vs. democracy? I'll take the democracy.

Do you see the people of Egypt bitching how bad EGypt gov is? No.

That's because they're economically fortunate and not so socially strict.

Do you Iran people bitching how bad Iran gov is? No.

Of course you do, you dumb piece of shit! Ahmanedjad is burned in effigy on probably a daily basis.

So why would Palestinians be any different?

They aren't any different. They aren't free. Perhaps they can be in, I dunno, the only well-functioning democracy in that entire shithole of a region?

Israel only came to middle east to cause trouble, war, and destruction.

What reason could they possibly have for WANTING to do this? Is it because they're evil stealth Jews?

No. Shut up. Israel exists to be the one place on Earth that Jews can call home. There's plenty of Muslim countries, there's plenty of Christian countries. Why can't we have one tiny strip of land?

So get your head out of your ass and read history and stop being such an ignorant capitalist

Lol. Hilarious. If you read any history then you'd know that communism always fails and capitalism almost always succeeds.

[goozebump]

At 6/17/07 06:20 PM, K-RadPie wrote:

If it weren't for "ignorant capitalists," you wouldn't have a computer, let alone internet, to complain about it in the first place.

No if it was'ntfor taxes and govt. funded research ;-)

[Demosthenez]

Dr Worm, that last post was terrible. Hopefully you up the quality because as it is that isnt even worth responding to.

At 6/17/07 07:47 PM, 5uicideX wrote: i lost a relative in 9/11

Yeah right. I TOTALLY believe you : /

At 6/17/07 07:38 PM, Me-Patch wrote: America supports Israel, we don't own it. The U.S. is just happy to have an ally in the middle east.

We have plenty of allies in the Middle East. Israel could be considred one of them but with their propensity to play us as hard as they do, I would hardly consider them a good ally. Allies dont do things that would fly in the face of their allies strategic objectives, especially when you are the ally that should be fucking thankful for the support of the unipolar power because no one else has their back. The 2006 Lebanese War was about the stupidest shit Israel could have done for America (Israel to) but hey, its Israel. They dont give a shit.

At 6/17/07 06:48 PM, 5uicideX wrote: israel was formed because the US gave the isralites the arms to conquer and control the area now known as israel.

France and the UK were the big suppliers of Israel from about the late 40's (Israels creation) to probably the 70's, when the USA had a renewed interest in Israel because of the Cold War dynamics of Soviet supplied Egypt and Iraq. They suddenly had a purpose for the USA in the startegic sense, a counter balance to Soviet power in the Middle East. So, no.

Case in point, it was the French and British who were the ones who helped the Israelis achieve their nuclear ambitions that have still never been offically confirmed by the Israelis.

one of the reasons they did this was because of americas association with the Jews who fled persecution during the second world war and before.

Wrong again. It was the Soviets that pushed America into bed with the Israelis, like previously stated. The entire basis of your argument is flawed.

[The-JefFlet]

well yall can think what you want but i know that Israel will stand strong until judgement day.

and even for you non-believers,
Israel has a nuclear weapon called The Sampson Project.
its powerful enough to wipe out all of palestine, including Israe itself.
(hints the name Sampson Project, cause Sampson colapsed the cathedral he was bound in on top of himself to kill his enemies.)

[altanese-mistress]

At 6/19/07 02:22 PM, The-JefFlet wrote: well yall can think what you want but i know that Israel will stand strong until judgement day.

and even for you non-believers,
Israel has a nuclear weapon called The Sampson Project.
its powerful enough to wipe out all of palestine, including Israe itself.
(hints the name Sampson Project, cause Sampson colapsed the cathedral he was bound in on top of himself to kill his enemies.)

Well that's super.
The USSR had a project called Czar Bomba (literally 'King of Bombs') that had a blastwave so powerful it could still be measured on it's third passage 'round the world, was four times more powerful than America's strongest (Castile Bravo), and if dropped on London the blast and fireball would incenerate most of Southern England.

Don't be so easily impressed.

[The-JefFlet]

At 6/19/07 02:29 PM, altanese-mistress wrote: Don't be so easily impressed.

impressed?? i was just stating a fact, Israel will never be conquered.

[altanese-mistress]

At 6/19/07 02:48 PM, The-JefFlet wrote: impressed?? i was just stating a fact, Israel will never be conquered.

Never say never when you're in Neverland.
Or something like that.

You fail to realize that all nations must fall. And a nation that relies on the support of other nations to make it powerful? Well....

[hongkongexpress]

Say, with Isreal so close to fellow Moslem nations, (despite sectarian diffrences), wouldn't the Moslem nations likewise be feeling the ill effects of nuclear bombs going off? Ie radio active dust-goo affecting Lebannon and Syria and Jordan? so wouldn't it be in the best intrest of these 3 nations to be pressuring Iran not to make nuclear weapons?

[DevourerJay]

Israel's problems are their fault, they returned ALL the land the took... if they hadn't then they would have a bigger cushion... they should've simply wiped arabs off the map... when they had a chance, now its too late... and still no one thinks (arabs) that israel should be recognized.... i swear, muslims are fucking idiots

[Dr-Worm]

At 6/19/07 01:59 PM, Demosthenez wrote: Dr Worm, that last post was terrible. Hopefully you up the quality because as it is that isnt even worth responding to.

Eh, whatever, I'm allowed to have my off days.