Newgrounds.com — Everything, By Everyone.

At 6/17/07 06:13 PM, PrettyMuchBryce wrote: I love newgrounds just as much as the next person but I seriously have grown to loathe the laziness and procrastination inherit of the newgrounds team.

Good to see you have an awesome handle on what actually goes into running a business. It's not all flash and show and 'look at this!' A LOT of it is heartache and sweat that nobody ever sees. For all their inherent laziness, they've managed to produce and maintain one of the best websites on the internet with a staff of under a dozen. That close knit workforce is what has prevented NG from going the way of youtube and its cesspool of a userbase.

At 6/18/07 08:34 AM, TomFulp wrote: The review system in the redesign does away with all the sub-scoring, so all that remains is a single score to go along with your review... This was a step towards making reviews "easier" to leave, rather than having to rank a submission on a bunch of sub-criteria. Maybe the last step is to just remove all scoring altogether. We'll revisit this later. :)

Awesome Tom, thanks for hearing me out. And about some reviews being really effective, I agree. I just think the people who write really good reviews would still write really good comments, but like you said, you would get 4 worders, but I think those would also translate to the same for reviews. I think it all really depends on the person reviewing/commenting and how much effort they want to give it.

At 6/18/07 08:47 AM, Shawn wrote: In my opinion thats not good then you would lose the review pick award and whatnot And you won't get a good average on what people think of your flash, But hey its your site you want to get rid of it thats your choice to make....

I disagree for one main reason, because you have such a solid scoring system, (main system -5), why taint it with an additional score that can only be left by a minority of people? (because people with NG accounts compared to people who vote without accounts has to be much less) I think the normal scoring system is really solid, except for the fact that you can vote on an entry everyday, which I'll never understand, but that's a story for another day. My point is the 1-5 scoring system seems much more solid than the review scoring system.

At 6/17/07 06:13 PM, PrettyMuchBryce wrote: Yeah you know why nothing has happened? cause you're fuckin lazy. You want to get something done? HIRE SOME PEOPLE. Work your ass off. Over and over for the last few years we've been hearing about this major overhaul and it hasn't happened. I honestly don't think it ever will happen.

holy shit everybody this kid has the answers! that was our problem! we we're being LAZY! HOW DID WE NOT SEE THIS BEFORE!

THANK YOU SO FUCKING MUCH BRYCE.

At 6/18/07 10:12 AM, SuperFlonic wrote: True, but NG isn't toying around on the global market.

I'm not sure what you mean, but I know from experience that any rich-content site, especially one like Newgrounds is probably highly accessed in other countries. I'd be curious to see their stats because I would bet they get GREAT amounts of visitors from outside the U.S. I bet they get so many that it would be a huge step forward to offer NG with a few additional language packs for a way to get ahead of the curve.

At 6/18/07 11:23 AM, JohnnyUtah wrote: THANK YOU SO FUCKING MUCH BRYCE.

GET BACK TO WORK, ASSHOLE! lololo

At 6/18/07 11:32 AM, Maus wrote:

At 6/18/07 11:23 AM, JohnnyUtah wrote: THANK YOU SO FUCKING MUCH BRYCE.

GET BACK TO WORK, ASSHOLE! lololo

Hah Utah got owned by Maus. Don't worry Utah, it's happened to me many times before.

At 6/18/07 11:45 AM, DFox wrote:

At 6/18/07 11:32 AM, Maus wrote:

At 6/18/07 11:23 AM, JohnnyUtah wrote: THANK YOU SO FUCKING MUCH BRYCE.

GET BACK TO WORK, ASSHOLE! lololo

Hah Utah got owned by Maus. Don't worry Utah, it's happened to me many times before.

OH WE'LL SEE WHO'S OWND WHEN I THROW HER OUT THE FUCKING OFFICE WINDOW. ZOOM.

Nice speech, Tom. All the best toward the new redesign.

At 6/18/07 11:58 AM, JohnnyUtah wrote: OH WE'LL SEE WHO'S OWND WHEN I THROW HER OUT THE FUCKING OFFICE WINDOW. ZOOM.

LOL. I'd fly pretty far too, I've lost weight since winter.

I fucking loef Tom.

Heeeyy, congrats NG! Some more good pub: http://www.webware.com/8301-13546_109-9729508 -29.html

Glad NG won. Although I noticed their description was a tad off.

Damn Tom is updating and posting nice long lenghty posts. He must be inspired.

At 6/16/07 11:24 PM, DFox wrote: Yeah, some might have. My underlining point is that the BBS gives people a public place ON Newgrounds to question the authority. If I want to question the authority on Youtube the best I can do is contact them. Youtube constantly deletes users and videos. Do you ever see any individuals question those moves on a large scale? I know I haven't, and that's because Youtube doesn't give them the platform and most people aren't going to go out of their way to find it.

Well, I don't surf YouTube anywhere near as much as NG... but I've never seen anyone complain about moderation, no.

But I wasn't really addressing the moderation/adminning of the two sites. I was addressing the userbase of the two sites. I'd argue there's not much difference in terms of maturity. I guess your point was only that YouTube does a better job of cleaning up the trash there, and a better job of keeping the random visitor from the rest of the net from noticing the idiots than NG does, especially re: the BBS and the reviews, if not so much the portal entries themselves.

Fair enough.

The NG admins have even admitted that the BBS uses a ton of human resources which is why they re-instituted the advertisements. So aside from creating problems, it requires a lot of attention from staff, and there's no denying that as Wade stated that as a reason for the ads. So if you don't believe my whole thing about the BBS being the root of problems, at the very least it takes human resources away from cleaning up other aspects of the site.

I haven't seen those comments about human resources. I don't know if you mean the mods (which have nothing to do with the creation of new areas of NG, the improvements to existing parts of the site, or any other adminning tasks... plus they aren't paid)... or if you actually mean admins themselves wasting time on the BBS. I can't argue that.

I was just saying the technical demands of the BBS are low. Human demands, I wouldn't make claims to.

Whether the youtube comment system is more like a BBS or review system is completely irrelevant.

I was just a bit confused as to what authors and their reviews/comments had to do with the rest of the post's conversation, but...

The fact of the matter is NG reviews and youtube comments are the way you give feedback on the sites content.

Yep.

Here's what doesn't make sense about the NG review system, whether you want to look at it as a similar system to the youtube comment system, or not, either way the following applies. It's constantly said that the NG review system is to BENEFIT the content creator. Now, why should other users and review moderators have the ability to determine if my comments are helpful to the flash author. Do the other NG members and review moderators have super mind reading powers that allow them to determine whether or not my review is helpful to the content creator? If they do, then that's amazing. I was always under the impression that the only person who can determine whether something is helpful to them is the person who MADE the content. That brings me to this point, why should a content creator not have the power to delete reviews/comments? If the review isn't helpful to them, then why does it remain there?

I don't know who constantly says the NG review system is ONLY to benefit the content creators, because there's plenty of NG flash submitters who haven't been on this site for 3 years. But the reviews (old and new alike) to their flashes serve as a helpful aid, in theory, to the flash VIEWERS of the site, not just to authors.

An ideal review serves all three legs of the NG review system chair:

A) the author of the flash
B) the general audience
C) the reviewer themselves

Yes, the chair only has three legs. It's not the most stable chair in the world.... it's one of those stools that's fun but can fall over if you're not careful.

What if someone comes along, leaves a constructive review on my entry, and breaks one of the many, soft, confining review rules, and one of the many stat whores marks it as abusive, and a review mod deletes it? What if that review would have helped me improve my skills? Why should I not see any reviews that I haven't deemed unhelpful?

That's a good point. It's a point more for laxness in moderation than it is for changing who and what and why the reviews on the site are dealt with, though, IMO.

The current NG review system makes no sense if you look at it from a logical standpoint.

Only if you believe reviews are for no one other than the author. But if they were, then only the author could see them. We can all see 'em.

I hope the new page debuts on the 12 anniversary.

Ha ha. Tom, man. Do you feel... guilty?

You've given so much to so many of those in the flash community, you should certainly not be made at all to feel as if a few weeks of well-deserved relaxation are any sort of problem. The redesign has been pushed back a few times and users are getting on your case about it. Not a BIG deal, but I can understand where most everyone is coming from on the subject.

It'll get done, but don't build the redesign into some knight in shining armor. It'll look pretty, but in the end it's the man underneath the armor that truly matters... blah blah blah. There'll still be problems to solve, deadlines (whether self-set or imposed) to meet, and other bumps along the way.

Plus, what are you expecting? This site is geared to attract the small percentage of us who know and love spending countless hours working away towards the entertainment of others and the fuition of their ideas often profitlessly and unite them with the larger percentage of us who know and love the exact opposite side of that coin (viewing that content freely). If it's fans getting to you with pressure for the redesign's launch... take it in stride. You've offered something exciting, new, and most importantly: ENTERTAINING to them without yet delivering. They've been spoiled with a NG of near infinite entertainment value, so naturally, the withholding of such further gratification would be a bit anger-inspiring.

I certainly am grateful for this site and all it's become. I can only speak for myself, but I bet if you asked, the majority of your site's following would respond similarly. On a top 500 web site... that's saying something.

It's a shame NG is so overlooked.

I'll hopefully pick up a copy of Edge at the airport tomorrow. I had a quick flick through in a shop the other day but didn't buy one. I assume Tom already has one, but w/e

Tom,

I like your post about building NG from the ground up. That's hard to find now a days, with almost every new site taking money from VC. (Even Kongregate took a 1 Million round of funding)

http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/03/22/kongrega te-gets-1m-launches-user-generated-games/

Needless to say, you'll be hard pressed to find someone talk about Flash without Tom Fulps name coming up.

Keep up the great work and I look forward to the redesign.

-Daniel
ArmorGames.com

At 6/19/07 01:18 PM, ArmorGames wrote: http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/03/22/kongrega te-gets-1m-launches-user-generated-games/

It will be interesting to observe how this (bolded text) affects any future content and overall development:

"...announcing a “nearly” $1 million angel round, including funds from Reid Hoffman (LinkedIn), Joe Kraus (Excite/JotSpot), Jeff Clavier (SoftTech VC) and Richard Wolpert (Disney Online), among others."

I found NG just a couple of months ago and instantly fell in love with it. Although I don't agree or like all the content posted, your site is so diverse that everyone can be entertained and have a sense of ownership.

Flash is currently under-rated and I think as more web 2.0 social networks arise, NG will gain much more momentum. I work for a startup company that focuses on the paradigm shifts of the Internet and I foresee NG picking up. It's all a matter of catching the right train, not giving up, and staying true to your core strengths - community is obviously one of NG's greatest assets.

Congrats, Tom. For the past 12 years, you've created and maintained a strong and powerful online community. Even noobs like myself appreciate your staff's hard work. God bless, buddy. =)

At 6/18/07 08:34 AM, TomFulp wrote: The review system in the redesign does away with all the sub-scoring, so all that remains is a single score to go along with your review

Oooh, we could make our own ranking scales now? That should be fun... :D

People are suggesting we be more like Youtube? Ho fuck no.

That place has 100 times the amount of morons we have here.

I don't even want to imagine the kind of trauma we'd experience if they migrated here.

At 6/20/07 11:56 PM, ZekeySpaceyLizard wrote: People are suggesting we be more like Youtube? Ho fuck no.

That place has 100 times the amount of morons we have here.

I don't even want to imagine the kind of trauma we'd experience if they migrated here.

PLEASE DON'T READ THIS..Your family will get killed and raped by a ghost named dicksucka if you read this. Post this comment in 50 other flash reviews and/or posts on the NG BBS.

That's a really good example of the horrors we would get if youtube migrated here. Some videos don't even have regular comments. Just chain comments.

wait, NG had embeddables? BRING THAT BACK!

hey there lil fella

Newgrounds is a lot more than what it used to be in my opinion

Before Newgrounds, I was not not the slightest bit interested in animating, just drawing. But 5 years later and I am looking at colleges that support types of animation.

I was glad when Newgrounds had a little rehaul. The angsty and rebellious atmospheres were toned down and the quality of flashes in general began to rise.

The people that yearn for the old days of Newgrounds confuse me. A lot of people are uncomfortable with recent flashes that stress graphics and story-telling. Newgrounds has not eliminated the audience that just wants funny, edgy content. But Newgrounds had to evolve eventually. It's becoming more sophisticated, which is a great thing in my opinion.

No I am not looking for a DevianArt Newgrounds or something like that, but remember Tom saying that the slogan from "The problems of the future, today!" to "Everything by Everyone" was to ditch the angsty teenage-esque theme. Nobody likes angsty teenagers anyway :(.

So yeah I like the direction Newgrounds is going. It's still pushes societal norms and is still extremely unique. But if the whole site was just 100% "lol fuck you society norms," it would eventually have gotten stale.

Tom,
I am an avid user of Newgrounds since.. uh, beginning? This website gave me hours of entertainment and I will be extremely grateful for that. Some quotes:

"Success isn't measured by the position you reach in life; it's measured by the obstacles you overcome" - Booker Washington

"Don't worry about people stealing your ideas; if they are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throat." - Howard Aiken

"Anyone who has never made a mistake, has never tried anything new." - Albert Einstein

And especially...

"All our dreams can come true, if we have the courage to pursue them." - Walt Disney

Keep up the good work.

Hey, Tom. I dunno if you're still reading this thread... and most of what I wanted to say has already been said by all these other replies besides the ones that were like "HAY I GLAD U HAS SAD BUT WARE IS REDAZINE THAX DUD." But I just want you to know that Newgrounds is assome and the true fans will keep coming regardless of whether it's redesigned or not. We'll appreciate the redesign when it's here, but know that our love for Tom N Friends is unconditional, baby!

Newgrounds will always be successful as long as it maintains the 3 Cs that have always held it together:
Content, Community, and... Women. Yeah, we'll go with that...

And if it's true that maintaining the BBS is taking away a lot of time from the staff, maybe you could implement a sort of whistle system much like with comments on Flash submissions. This could let users flag spam and other evil content to make it easier for mods to find and flush out the shite. Sure that could be abused by flagging perfectly fine threads, but maybe you could have it alert the mods only once it has met a certain number of flags or implement whistle levels. Just throwing another random idea out there.

I can't imagine what it's like to run a BEHEMOTH (jaja) like Newgrounds and the kind of pressure involved, but take it from me, some random guy, yer doin great! You're looking at it from the viewpoint of the webmaster (ovusly), so you're nervous cuz this is what you do, but it's lookin good from here, mang!

wow. although my account fails to show it, i have been a regular viewer since the BEGINNING. i have been quietly viewing, enjoying, and spreading the word about Newgrounds within my community and circle of friends.

it THRILLS me to know that you have been recognized in some way, and only hope that this "cult" addiction becomes larger, and more popular, without losing focus of what it stands for.

you deserve a large pat on the back, from all of us who appreciate the hard work and dedication.

You know I think its good and all that we got in EDGE and the new designs right around the corner but tom(Wade and the other administartors too I guess.) I really think you need a vaccatiion!