06/12/01: Christian Club

[Freakapotimus]

Tuesday June 12 9:21 AM ET

Christian Club May Not Meet
By RIK STEVENS, Associated Press Writer

MILFORD, N.Y. (AP) - Though the nation's highest court has ruled that the Christian Good News Club has the right to gather at a public school, the Bible study group may never actually meet in the building.

Milford Central School district officials are weighing two options in response to the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling Monday: barring all groups from meeting there or pushing starting times back for all clubs until 5 p.m. or 6 p.m., a few hours after students are dismissed.

The Rev. Stephen Fournier, organizer of the Good News Club, said the second choice wouldn't work because the group wants to meet directly after school so it can reach the most students.

``That rules out the club meeting at the school,'' said Fournier, pastor at Milford Community Bible Church. ``The best opportunity for us to reach the kids was right after school.''

Superintendent Peter Livshin said the school board planned to meet Thursday to begin talking about a new policy and would have new rules in place before the beginning of the next school year.

In 1996, Fournier and his wife, Darleen, requested access to Milford's K-12 school so young children could learn Scripture, play games and listen to Bible stories. When they were denied, they sued, arguing the district allowed other groups like the Boy Scouts and 4-H use the facilities.

The district countered that permitting Good News Club meetings would amount to a school endorsement of Christianity - that very young children attending its 3 p.m. gatherings might believe the school endorsed the club's religious outlook.

``It has nothing to do with school,'' Darleen Fournier said Monday. ``It's just using a school building after hours,'' ``We don't want the government mandating prayer over the public address system or something like that.''

The club first won and then lost federal court permission to use school space. Last year, the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled against the club, calling its activities ``quintessentially religious.''

By a 6-3 vote Monday, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that once Milford opened its doors to after-school civic meetings with a moral theme, the school district could not exclude an evangelism club without violating First Amendment free-speech rights.

``We always said this was a free speech issue,'' Fournier said. ``This ruling is going to affect clubs all across the country. Any time you're fighting for a freedom, everybody benefits.''

The case from this village in upstate New York became a closely watched church-state battle. Groups ranging from the National Council of Churches to the American Civil Liberties Union filed friend-of-the-court briefs.

David Ernst of the New York State School Boards Association said the ruling will certainly affect other school districts.

``Districts are going to have to be aware that when they make a decision to give access to some groups, the implications of this decision is that they are not able to deny access to groups like the Good News Club,'' Ernst said.

Milford straddles Route 28 midway between the National Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown and the National Soccer Hall of Fame in Oneonta. In the community, even at the school of 530 students, the legal fight caused few ripples.

``I admire the Good News Club for their tenacity in pursuing something they believe in. It's what this country is all about,'' said Livshin, who nonetheless disagreed with the court's ruling.

-

On the Net:
Supreme Court: http://www.supremecourtus.gov

[Bucephalus]

Hey, more power to 'em.

[KaneOfNod]

Got a didn't fill in all fields error, bah!

Anyway, freedom of religion does not mean freedom from religion, as many liberals would have you believe.

Got the error again! Good thing I copied it first this time.

[WanDabada]

That is all complete and utter bollocks!!! Isn't America supposed to be a Christian country anyway? Fucking hell I hate political correctness! I bet if it was any other denomination they wouldn't have dared to ban it due to fears of being prejudiced, racist or just plain bigoted, but here they are doing it to the principal religion. All I can say is I really hope they get the right to use the building. Then again, this isn't half as bad as the private school in Britain which has banned Father's Day because it's offensive to gay male parents. What the piss is going on there?!?

[wdfcverfgtghm]

At 6/12/01 07:05 PM, WanDabada wrote: That is all complete and utter bollocks!!! Isn't America supposed to be a Christian country anyway? Fucking hell I hate political correctness! I bet if it was any other denomination they wouldn't have dared to ban it due to fears of being prejudiced, racist or just plain bigoted, but here they are doing it to the principal religion. All I can say is I really hope they get the right to use the building. Then again, this isn't half as bad as the private school in Britain which has banned Father's Day because it's offensive to gay male parents. What the piss is going on there?!?

Ok No America Isn't a christian country you retard. But I agree some of this stuff is getting out of hand. I totally agree that school officials shouldn't leader kids in any one type of prayer... but come on using the building. That's just crazy

[WanDabada]

Ok No America Isn't a christian country you retard. But I agree some of this stuff is getting out of hand. I totally agree that school officials shouldn't leader kids in any one type of prayer... but come on using the building. That's just crazy

Sorry, but I couldn't really be bothered to write multi-denominational but principally christian. Oh damn, thats really cause enough to call me a retard isn't it. Far too much pointless insulting and nit-picking going on in this place.

[shorbe]

Do they have a Satanist club also? That would be pretty cool. Have them both out the front of the school trying to gain followers. I'd go just for the spectacle.

shorbe

[Freakapotimus]

Kane:
I agree with you, and I don't. I have been known to say "freedom from religion" but I mean it in the sense that I shouldn't have to follow someone else's religion, or be forced into a religion I do not agree with. If I want to follow no religion, I should be allowed to. However, most people seem to think that things like the above mentioned club should not be allowed. I believe it should, as long as other religious clubs also have a fair share as well.

shorbe:
Yes, that would be pretty cool, I'd like to see that! Very interesting stuff.

[neoburn13]

i hate all the religous fuckers at my school. there like "come to church with me." just out of nowhere. i'm really getting sick of a religion pushed on me. i dont really care anymore if you want to go to church, fine, just dont tell me about it. and i dont want to see people having bible study at my school it offends me.

[pyroarchy]

At 6/21/01 11:13 AM, neoburn13 wrote: i hate all the religous fuckers at my school. there like "come to church with me." just out of nowhere. i'm really getting sick of a religion pushed on me. i dont really care anymore if you want to go to church, fine, just dont tell me about it. and i dont want to see people having bible study at my school it offends me.

I really don't like Christians, or atleast the ones I've had encounters with. One lady tried to make us pray with her to save our souls cause we had supposovly used the "lords" name in vein. They sure don't like to be told that they are wrong. Crazy cults...

[KaneOfNod]

At 6/21/01 11:13 AM, neoburn13 wrote: i hate all the religous fuckers at my school. there like "come to church with me." just out of nowhere. i'm really getting sick of a religion pushed on me. i dont really care anymore if you want to go to church, fine, just dont tell me about it. and i dont want to see people having bible study at my school it offends me.

Unless you go to a private school, religion is not pushed on you. Actually, quite the opposite; it is shunned, hidden, and ignored. I think that kids should be allowed to do any non-disruptive praying/etc. that they want at school. As long as it doesn't involve yelling, sacrifice, or cutting things :D

[Freakapotimus]

At 6/21/01 11:13 AM, neoburn13 wrote: i dont want to see people having bible study at my school it offends me.

Then don't watch. And I don't understand how you could be offended by a bible study group. Unless you were being pressured into joining this group, and you were being bullied and harrassed each day at school because you would not join the group, I don't see how you could be offended.

At 6/21/01 11:51 AM, KaneOfNod wrote: Unless you go to a private school, religion is not pushed on you. Actually, quite the opposite; it is shunned, hidden, and ignored.

Yes. I am not Christian, but I believe that people have the right to follow the religion of their choosing, and should be allowed to express themselves at school, work, sports, art group, etc. People rarely talk about religion and/or spirituality anymore, outside their own circles.

However, if Christian organizations are permitted to gather on campus, other groups should be as well, ie pagan, taoist, jewish, etc. Students also should not be disciplined for wearing certain religious paraphenalia, like pendants, tee shirts, or earrings.

[Raptorman]

The case from this village in upstate New York became a closely watched church-state battle. Groups ranging from the National Council of Churches to the American Civil Liberties Union filed friend-of-the-court briefs.

I am very curious about what the amicus curea (Latin and probably misspelled) from the Civil Liberties Union was. They fulfill and inportant role in maintaining freedoms for all individuals however, it seems they don't really like to purse freedoms for those of a right of center outlook.

[Strawberry]

At 6/12/01 10:34 AM, Freakapotimus wrote: Tuesday June 12 9:21 AM ET

Christian Club May Not Meet
By RIK STEVENS, Associated Press Writer

If you want religion, go to a fucking church. There is no need to meet in the schools. THats what churches are for.

[shorbe]

Strawberry: If we're going to take that approach, then there should be nothing at school other that books and learning. If someone wants basketball, they should go to a basketball stadium, etc.

That's a ridiculous argument.

The point is about freedom of speech, association and assembly.

shorbe

[Freakapotimus]

At 6/23/01 02:19 AM, shorbe wrote: If someone wants basketball, they should go to a basketball stadium, etc.

True. I also think Strawberry's statement was a bit ridiculous. You can either have everything, or nothing at all. If you do not want religious groups forming at schools, then let's also remove the sports teams, the social clubs, the "ethnic" groups, the community service organizations, drama clubs, music groups, and art cliques. We'll keep the math team and the science club though. The only after-school activities that will be allowed must pertain to education, and educational activites. Oh wait a second! All those other groups were educational as well! Silly me!

[IamJacksalias]

All I can say is that we seem to have lost site of the reason this country was started. Freedom of religion! Yes this was a Christian country, a shame it no longer is. Excellent comment of freedom from religion I loved it! As far as the whole seperation of church and state, that phrase is not uttered anywhere in the constitution, but was found in a letter by I believe Thomas Jeferson, I am probably so wrong I have lost all crediability, but hey I tried. Anyway Christians don't seem to have rights when it comes to school. I'll leave you with one thought. Why is it that you are not considered a bigot for hating Christians? You would be if you said you hated Jews or Hinuds. Why not Christians?

[shorbe]

IamJack: Precisely.

shorbe

[Freakapotimus]

At 7/1/01 11:51 AM, IamJacksalias wrote: Excellent comment of freedom from religion I loved it!

Who's comment, my comment?

Why is it that you are not considered a bigot for hating Christians? You would be if you said you hated Jews or Hinuds. Why not Christians?

PC-ness. The same reason that straight white males cannot make any comments about ANYONE.