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We Need Gun Control

78,559 Views | 1,234 Replies

Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-16 23:43:19


At 6/16/07 10:32 PM, Tal-con wrote:
*Ahem* Is anyone familiar with appeal to emotion?
It isn't a plea to emotion, derr, it's a fact.

It is the twisting of what happened to encourage a fact that is supported by very little factual evidence, or in your case a lack of knowledge about the subject.


It's a lot harder to get a gun off of the black market, since most guns which make their way onto the black market are first bought legally. There would be no massacre if Cho couldn't get his hands on a gun, and that is a fact.

1) There is a trade in illegal guns brought in from overseas. China for one was caught red handed (forgive the pun) smuggling military versions of the AK-47 into California.
2) Here is a hing: do not be so bold in stating things as facts, especially hypotheticals. That is the sign of a fool. As I said in my last post if he did not have a gun...he could've just as easily made a bomb and killed even more people. But I guess you're right it wouldn't have been a massacre, but an atrocity.


Debunking conspiracy theories for the New World Order since 1995...

" I hereby accuse you attempting to silence me..." --PurePress

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Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-17 09:11:06


I'm all for gun control- use both hands.
just common sense, people.
(jk)


Die Kunst ist Tot! Dada Uber Alles!

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Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-17 09:45:59


At 6/17/07 09:11 AM, ShardStorm wrote: I'm all for gun control- use both hands.
just common sense, people.
(jk)

I liked that, it was funny.

but i still dont get any deserved attention.


On a moving train there are no centrists, only radicals and reactionaries.

Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-17 12:49:07


At 6/17/07 12:07 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: BUT they fail to realize that the majority of crimes are committed by people who DO NOT legally obtain firearms, and many crimes are prevented by people who DO legally possess firearms.

Less guns doesn't mean more crime.

Even John Lott admits the possibility of that: "The more serious possibility is that some other factor may have caused both the reduction in crime rates and the passage of the law to occur at the same time." (this is from pg. 153 of his book).

Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-17 13:02:42


At 6/16/07 05:50 PM, JakeHero wrote:
At 6/16/07 05:42 PM, HighlyIllogical wrote: 32 kids dead because of a nut who got guns is a massacre.
*Ahem* Is anyone familiar with appeal to emotion?

Yes. We're also familiar with stating facts. We're also aware that by bringing that up, you're trying to duck the issue without giving up your "right" to post a response.

By the way, why haven't you posted this when some bullshit dispenser comes up with the "Obviously you're just a piece of shit who wants law abiding citizens to be unarmed so they can be raped and murdered by criminals. YOU HAVE THEIR BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS FUCKBAG" argument.

Isn't that appealing to emotion (albeit in the manner of a complete dickhead) too?

Also it misses the fact that, if your family had been raped and murdered, you'd want to tear the person apart with your bare hands, rather than use a gun which is, frankly, pussyish.

One college age girl with a bruise from a baseball bat swung at him by a crazy English major from South Korea who was subdued and beaten to a pulp by her in front of everyone isn't a tragedy.
Let's see, if the crazy korean kid wanted a gun so bad he could of simply got it off the blackmarket. Outlawing a tool won't stop it from being used in illicit manner.

You'll find that every two-bit gangsta wannabe suddenly won't be able to get hold of a gun, so that's a chunk off the 15,000 p/a already. Every paranoid idiot who thinks the people outside their house are loitering with intent to rape and murder his family (coincidentally there's a bus stop there) won't be able to accidentally shoot their friends, family or neighbours because they thought the Manson Family had reformed just to get them is another chunk off the 15,000 p/a.

Getting it?


Propaganda is to a Democracy what violence is to a Dictatorship

Never underestimate the significance of "significant."

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Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-17 16:11:37


Preventing one death makes gun control entirely worth it, is my fundamental view.

Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-17 16:21:28


At 6/17/07 04:11 PM, HighlyIllogical wrote: Preventing one death makes gun control entirely worth it, is my fundamental view.

exactly, too many rednecks take their guns over peoples lives. thats pretty sick.

Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-17 16:24:06


At 6/17/07 01:02 PM, D2Kvirus wrote: Yes. We're also familiar with stating facts.

Yes, something gun-control advocates don't do often.

We're also aware that by bringing that up, you're trying to duck the issue without giving up your "right" to post a response.

I've already echoed the same shit, as the other guy has. It isn't good to be redundant, no?

By the way, why haven't you posted this when some bullshit dispenser comes up with the "Obviously you're just a piece of shit who wants law abiding citizens to be unarmed so they can be raped and murdered by criminals. YOU HAVE THEIR BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS FUCKBAG" argument.

I don't think so. If so, could you quote me and which thread, because I've said gun control disarms law abiding citizens, but the other stuff I'm not sure. Anyone who isn't a total dumbshit could see that much.

Isn't that appealing to emotion (albeit in the manner of a complete dickhead) too?

Had I said it.

Also it misses the fact that, if your family had been raped and murdered, you'd want to tear the person apart with your bare hands, rather than use a gun which is, frankly, pussyish.

Right, when you're walking down the street in the Middle of Columbia, LA, Brooklyn, etc and fifteen ghetto kids walk up to you and decide they're going to hurt you bad, well, why don't you try your idiotic notion of masculinity. That or you could beat off to kick boxing some more. We'll all be laughing at your bull-headed stupidity when you end in the hospital with fractured lungs and broken bones.

You'll find that every two-bit gangsta wannabe suddenly won't be able to get hold of a gun, so that's a chunk off the 15,000 p/a already.

You're a bigger fool than I thought if you actually believe this shit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_YTM_eAWnQ

Every paranoid idiot who thinks the people outside their house are loitering with intent to rape and murder his family (coincidentally there's a bus stop there) won't be able to accidentally shoot their friends, family or neighbours because they thought the Manson Family had reformed just to get them is another chunk off the 15,000 p/a.

Right. And let me tell you that every delusional fuckoff who thinks everyone with a gun is incompetent enough to shoot someone for no reason has no voice of credibility on the issue. Do you honestly believe if guns are outlawed violence will go away?

"Oh Let's punish the inanimate object for the wrongdoings of its handler! Hurry, before I piss my panties!"

http://www.discerningtoday.org/members/Digest /2000Digest/February/Gun%20Control%20Doesn't%
20Work.htm

http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/mountaien.h tm
Hell, things would be better if at least half of everyone owned a gun(explained in the youtube video above)

Getting it?

There's not much to get about an asshole's elitism.


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Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-17 16:42:53


At 6/17/07 01:02 PM, D2Kvirus wrote: Isn't that appealing to emotion (albeit in the manner of a complete dickhead) too?

How is it any different than the appeal to emotion you just made about how if we gave up guns, we'd be free from supposed gangbangers that are over-running us right now?

Also it misses the fact that, if your family had been raped and murdered, you'd want to tear the person apart with your bare hands, rather than use a gun which is, frankly, pussyish.

It can easily be argued that the invention of the gun is just another pitstop on the road of evolution. We went from close quarters combat with rocks and sticks, to swords, bows and arrows, and now... guns. If I can stand back 30 yards away and blow away a target without so much as breaking a sweat, I've substantially increased the chances of my DNA being passed onto the next generation.

You can call it "pussyish" all you want (which would be an ad hominem attack on gun owners) , but brute force doesn't neccesarily equal intelligence anymore.

At 6/17/07 04:11 PM, HighlyIllogical wrote: Preventing one death makes gun control entirely worth it, is my fundamental view.

Then you are a hypocrite in addition to being double minded about the issue, because you and I both know that there are things out there that kill far more people than guns.


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Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-17 17:08:01


At 6/17/07 04:21 PM, Nitroglys wrote:
At 6/17/07 04:11 PM, HighlyIllogical wrote: Preventing one death makes gun control entirely worth it, is my fundamental view.
exactly, too many rednecks take their guns over peoples lives. thats pretty sick.

I thought we beat back these ignorant attitudes (based upon arrogance and pompousness) back with the facts in this thread on the main page.

This is not just about ideology but good governance. While you are focusing on saving one life you can be better serving society by tackeling larger issues such as:

1) Roots of crime.
2) Education.
3) Making cars safer/cleaner (more people die because of this consumer good in this country than die by guns).
4) Making our entitlement programs not only more effecient but more solvent as well (when these tear down our government you will see one helluva spike in violent crime in this country).
5) Sealing our borders. As long as we have porous borders we are going to have a gun problem in that the bad guys are guaranteed a source.


Debunking conspiracy theories for the New World Order since 1995...

" I hereby accuse you attempting to silence me..." --PurePress

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Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-17 17:10:09


At 6/17/07 01:02 PM, D2Kvirus wrote: Also it misses the fact that, if your family had been raped and murdered, you'd want to tear the person apart with your bare hands, rather than use a gun which is, frankly, pussyish.

I would rather have the means to stop this from happening to my family and be called a pussy by people like you, than have your false sense of masculinity.


Debunking conspiracy theories for the New World Order since 1995...

" I hereby accuse you attempting to silence me..." --PurePress

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Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-18 00:31:53


At 6/17/07 06:47 PM, Tal-con wrote: It's not using the deaths of anyone to get a point across. I could make the point with any example.

Fact is, the kid was implimenting appeal to emotion. No arguing about it.

Fact is, if we lived in a magical land with no guns, murder would drop dramatically. There would have been no VT massacre. There would have been a VT scuffle.

And alot less political freedoms.

Yes, because:

A.) Like I said, most guns on the black market are originally obtained legally.

For one thing you and I don't know this. It could be legal, or it could be guns brought directly from the manufacturing compay, and it could even be made from the seller's own home. I personally know someone who is able to make an Ak-47 in their workshop.

If you had, say, a one gun limit per person (because let's be honest, no one needs 20 guns to defend themselves),

Right, because we can curb the Constitution when we disagree with it. Nevermind avid gun collectors.

the black market on guns would be damaged dramatically. It's not like pot where you can just grow it.

Right, like they are in the UK, Australia, and every other gun-control shithole.

and B.) Cho bought his guns legally, even though he had a history of mental health issues.

And this is not due to guns. It's due to the confidentiality of a person's therapy. Blame privacy if you like.

So yes, I believe gun control would've at least made it harder for Cho to get his hands on guns.

That doesn't amount to jackshit. If it happened it happened. If it wouldn't of stopped him then it was meaningless to impliment in the first place. You've gotten nowhere.

You can't kill 32 people with a keyboard, no one's calling for key board control. Your point fails, and if you find my logic annoying, then don't post.

I don't find your logic annoying, I find what you do annoying, Grammer.


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Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-18 02:10:56


Gun Control is bullshit, while all obeying normal civilians will not have guns, criminals will still receive guns from another source rather than gun shops (I doubt any actually get them from gun shops) and go on crime sprees and fuck up society even worse than what it is now.


01000100011000010110111001100011011 01001011011100110011101010000011010 01011011100110010101100001011100000 11100000110110001100101010001110111 010101111001

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Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-18 11:10:52


At 6/16/07 07:29 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: It's the same argument made by the people who are against guns, but for marijuana.

i love irony.

Yes, the two things are completely equivalent, because you can get high by smoking guns and shoot people with marijuana.


Dead.

Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-18 13:53:46


At 6/18/07 12:31 AM, JakeHero wrote:
Right, like they are in the UK, Australia, and every other gun-control shithole.

If no one has guns, you certainly can't steal them.

Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-18 15:13:23


doesnt matter if we have gun control they'd still find ways to smuggle Ak-47's and 9mm and UZI's into America through Canada and Mexicono matter what we do...they even smuggle rpg's into America through the Mexican border ...


"May god have mercy upon my enemies because I won't"-Me-"Life is a Burrito. . .Chew Well"

"Everyone dies,. . .but since nobody's paid me to kill you. . .Sleep Well"-Boba Fett

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Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-18 18:17:02


At 6/18/07 01:53 PM, HighlyIllogical wrote: If no one has guns, you certainly can't steal them.

And if no one has drugs then you can't get high, but this doesn't happen when it comes to the drug war.


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Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-18 19:32:44


At 6/18/07 01:53 PM, HighlyIllogical wrote: If no one has guns, you certainly can't steal them.

Nor can you protect your family.


I do it for the lulz

Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-18 19:34:22


At 6/18/07 07:32 PM, MegalomaniacVirus wrote:
At 6/18/07 01:53 PM, HighlyIllogical wrote: If no one has guns, you certainly can't steal them.
Nor can you protect your family.

Right...It's entirely fallacious to assume that guns are commonly used to defend against criminals.

Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-18 19:37:42


At 6/18/07 07:34 PM, HighlyIllogical wrote:
At 6/18/07 07:32 PM, MegalomaniacVirus wrote:
At 6/18/07 01:53 PM, HighlyIllogical wrote: If no one has guns, you certainly can't steal them.
Nor can you protect your family.
Right...It's entirely fallacious to assume that guns are commonly used to defend against criminals.

That's beyond the point, the possibility of defending my family is almost impossible without a gun.


I do it for the lulz

Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-18 19:40:12


Right...It's entirely fallacious to assume that guns are commonly used to defend against criminals.

I don't have any stats on this, but I think the common usage of guns is in warfare. This is a bit of an educated guess, but I think the most shots fired have been in a war situation.

Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-18 19:50:02


Okey dokie. Let's address the "self defense" claim.

"In most cases victims who used firearms to defend themselves or
their property were confronted by offenders who were either unarmed
or armed with weapons other than firearms...Because the NCVS collects victimization data
on police officers, its estimates of the use of firearms for
self-defense are likely to include police use of firearms."

"On average in 1987-92 about 83,000 crime victims per year used a
firearm to defend themselves or their property." That's 83,000 victims of the "931,000
violent crimes." Not much, especially when you consider that 83,000 includes cops.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/hvfsda ft.txt

Here's another study, this time from Emory University's Center for Injury Control at the Rollins School of Public Health.

"In 42% of cases, the offender fled without confronting the victim. Victims who avoided confrontation were more likely to lose property but much less likely to be injured than those who were confronted by the offender. Resistance was attempted in 62 cases (31%), but the odds of injury were not significantly affected by the method of resistance."

Just as importantly: Three victims (1.5%) employed a firearm in self-protection.

And this is in the gun toting south, people...1.5%! Come on!

"Although firearms are often kept in the home for protection, they are rarely used for this purpose. "

Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-18 20:06:17


defend your family huh? well thats why i got a Spas-12 tactical shotgun and a 50 cal. hunting rifle...both of which i got at cabela's oddly they also have civilian versions of ak-47's which criminals modify to make full auto ak's....


"May god have mercy upon my enemies because I won't"-Me-"Life is a Burrito. . .Chew Well"

"Everyone dies,. . .but since nobody's paid me to kill you. . .Sleep Well"-Boba Fett

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Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-18 22:30:40


At 6/18/07 10:07 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:
WRONG

Here's an example of the problems with that source...

"were committed away from the victim's home, i.e., in a location where it would ordinarily be a crime for the victim to even possess a gun, never mind use it defensively"

Based on that, he's just ASSUMING that there are many DGUs...Kleck has no even SEMI-empirical research to cite.

Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-18 23:18:12


At 6/18/07 11:08 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: Suggesting that gun ownership doesn't prevent crime is wrong. Suggesting that crime will be lessened by banning guns is wrong, and has proven to be wrong.

Yeah, it's too bad that everyone doesn't have guns here in canada, because all the criminals are running around with them and we're all scared to leave our igloos. lol

Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-19 01:22:24


your the fucking moron


"May god have mercy upon my enemies because I won't"-Me-"Life is a Burrito. . .Chew Well"

"Everyone dies,. . .but since nobody's paid me to kill you. . .Sleep Well"-Boba Fett

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Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-19 12:54:17


At 6/18/07 03:13 PM, HomicideJack wrote: doesnt matter if we have gun control they'd still find ways to smuggle Ak-47's and 9mm and UZI's into America through Canada and Mexicono matter what we do...they even smuggle rpg's into America through the Mexican border ...

Very true and hell if the damn goverment and their fairhaired ideas get rid of guns like it was stated earlier then bad people will make bombs hell i know of 4 or 5 different bombs that on even a small scale could do more than the dick at VT. And the materials to make such bombs are easily accesible by the public or anyone with an i.d. diesed + high nitrate fertilizer = big boom not good remember back when that jackass filled the dumptruck full of high nitrate fertilizer and gas and blew up oklahoma city fuck imagine if that was in new york. And remember back a few years ago when those guys had the AK-47s in california and the cops had those pussy 9mms well what if some guy who was in the neighborhood happened to have his semi automatic .223 or whatever hell had i been there i would have had my 30.06 springfield up on my roof problem solved regardless if it was illegal to have it there. Some people just dont understand the bonuses that come from owning a firearm.

Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-19 12:56:57


Oh one more thing yes guns dont kill people people kill people guns just make it easier for some lunatic who has some deathwish and grudge

Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-19 23:10:23


'Nuff said

We Need Gun Control


WARNING: I'M A HUGE GRAMMER NAZI

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Response to We Need Gun Control 2007-06-19 23:46:25


At 6/14/07 06:08 PM, Matthamilton23 wrote: I live in Canada. There are way more guns per capita here,

for some reason i really fucking doubt that,

ever been to New York?

exactly


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