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We Need Gun Control

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Jmayer20
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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-10-29 17:06:25 Reply

At 10/29/12 01:32 PM, leanlifter1 wrote:
At 10/29/12 11:57 AM, Jmayer20 wrote: Look we can go on forever on weather or not we should have guns but the fact is it has been already decided with the second amendment. Weather or not you are for gun control you will never get ride of guns completely because of the second amendment to the constitution and it is nearly impossible to get ride of an amendment.

That is why I think we should stop wasting are time with this argument and focus on important things like fixing the economy.
Since when does Corporate run "Big Government" care about rights etc as they will rewrite them all to suite there ideal max profit margin anyway. What are you going to due when all your rights are stripped from you in the name of max profit ?

Your funny leanlifter1, in how you immediately jump to conclusions and start to rant more of your paranoid redrick. I did not even mention corporations or big government so I don't even know where you got that from. All I said was that it is pointless to continue to argue about this when it has already been decided with the second amendment. Also I was pointing out how you will never get rid of it. So why not worry about a different issue?

leanlifter1
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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-10-29 17:24:15 Reply

At 10/29/12 05:06 PM, Jmayer20 wrote:
At 10/29/12 01:32 PM, leanlifter1 wrote:
At 10/29/12 11:57 AM, Jmayer20 wrote: Look we can go on forever on weather or not we should have guns but the fact is it has been already decided with the second amendment. Weather or not you are for gun control you will never get ride of guns completely because of the second amendment to the constitution and it is nearly impossible to get ride of an amendment.

That is why I think we should stop wasting are time with this argument and focus on important things like fixing the economy.
Since when does Corporate run "Big Government" care about rights etc as they will rewrite them all to suite there ideal max profit margin anyway. What are you going to due when all your rights are stripped from you in the name of max profit ?
Your funny leanlifter1, in how you immediately jump to conclusions and start to rant more of your paranoid redrick. I did not even mention corporations or big government so I don't even know where you got that from. All I said was that it is pointless to continue to argue about this when it has already been decided with the second amendment. Also I was pointing out how you will never get rid of it. So why not worry about a different issue?

Taken strait out of your "Fascist rhetoric" indoctrination you and select others jump strait to damming, mitigating and persecuting those that oppose your regime :-) all the best. I don't blame you at all as we all went through the "Fascist conditioning camp" that is the public schooling system.


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JoS
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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-03 12:26:31 Reply

At 10/28/12 09:55 PM, leanlifter1 wrote:
At 10/28/12 09:40 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:
At 10/28/12 09:02 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: That constitution was written by a bunch of thieves and murderers
thats a load of bullshit and you have lost all credability you had remaining.
So then the country of the US&A was not illegitimately stolen by way of the gun ?

And this is where we went off track.

Leanlifter, you present an interesting proposal, allow people to own whatever guns they like (within certain restrictions) so long as they are not stored in the home. We already have gun ranges that own and allow you to operate guns that are otherwise prohibited from the public owning, what about one step further and allowing citizens to own guns, provided they are stored in a licence facility of some sort? Want to go hunting, pick up your guns at Store-and-Save, then when you are done lock them up again there.

Please stay on track, it diminishes your credibility and your argument when you don't. Plus it just starts a flame war and becomes spam, both for which you can and will be banned.


Bellum omnium contra omnes

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leanlifter1
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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-03 14:43:47 Reply

At 11/3/12 12:26 PM, JoS wrote:
At 10/28/12 09:55 PM, leanlifter1 wrote:
At 10/28/12 09:40 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:
At 10/28/12 09:02 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: That constitution was written by a bunch of thieves and murderers
thats a load of bullshit and you have lost all credability you had remaining.
So then the country of the US&A was not illegitimately stolen by way of the gun ?
And this is where we went off track.

Leanlifter, you present an interesting proposal, allow people to own whatever guns they like (within certain restrictions) so long as they are not stored in the home. We already have gun ranges that own and allow you to operate guns that are otherwise prohibited from the public owning, what about one step further and allowing citizens to own guns, provided they are stored in a licence facility of some sort? Want to go hunting, pick up your guns at Store-and-Save, then when you are done lock them up again there.

Please stay on track, it diminishes your credibility and your argument when you don't. Plus it just starts a flame war and becomes spam, both for which you can and will be banned.

We have gun ranges like that in Canada where the gun range sells all kinds of guns from chrome out 50cal Desert Eagles, 357 magnum revolvers, 9mm, Rifles etc etc etc ... The catch is you don't even need a license to own or shoot/clean/maintain the gun after you buy it but you must store it on site at the gun range and it will never leave the range unless/until you acquire the license to posses a gun.


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Tony-DarkGrave
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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-03 15:29:35 Reply

At 11/3/12 02:43 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: We have gun ranges like that in Canada where the gun range sells all kinds of guns from chrome out 50cal Desert Eagles, 357 magnum revolvers, 9mm, Rifles etc etc etc ... The catch is you don't even need a license to own or shoot/clean/maintain the gun after you buy it but you must store it on site at the gun range and it will never leave the range unless/until you acquire the license to posses a gun.

in the magical land of Canadia it maybe perfect. and that would never work in the US not with the Second Amendment in our constitution.

Cootie
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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-03 15:55:35 Reply

At 11/3/12 03:29 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:
in the magical land of Canadia it maybe perfect. and that would never work in the US not with the Second Amendment in our constitution.

You know that the Amendments are not permanent though. They can be changed and taken away.


For I am and forever shall be... a master ruseman.

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Tony-DarkGrave
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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-03 16:33:52 Reply

At 11/3/12 03:55 PM, Cootie wrote:
At 11/3/12 03:29 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:
in the magical land of Canadia it maybe perfect. and that would never work in the US not with the Second Amendment in our constitution.
You know that the Amendments are not permanent though. They can be changed and taken away.

and that has happened very few times which you could count with one hand and that taking away one of the main amendments from the Bill Of Rights would be impossible.

leanlifter1
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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-03 17:05:58 Reply

At 11/3/12 03:29 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:
At 11/3/12 02:43 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: We have gun ranges like that in Canada where the gun range sells all kinds of guns from chrome out 50cal Desert Eagles, 357 magnum revolvers, 9mm, Rifles etc etc etc ... The catch is you don't even need a license to own or shoot/clean/maintain the gun after you buy it but you must store it on site at the gun range and it will never leave the range unless/until you acquire the license to posses a gun.
in the magical land of Canadia it maybe perfect. and that would never work in the US not with the Second Amendment in our constitution.

Why would the second amendment let people have guns in there homes without having a license/course that trains them how to handle, clean, store, and all around be responsible and take care of a weapon ? Why say Canada is a magic land just because it has proper gun regulation and low gun related crimes ?


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Tony-DarkGrave
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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-03 17:32:11 Reply

At 11/3/12 05:05 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Why would the second amendment let people have guns in there homes without having a license/course that trains them how to handle, clean, store, and all around be responsible and take care of a weapon ?

handling a firearm is one of the most simple things to do its like riding a bike. keep it lowered not aimed at anybody, maintenance is easy as hell on most firearms I can field clean a M16A3 with a flashlight. Storing is also easy buy a Firearms Safe and put the safety on with it fully unloaded with another safe with Ammunition in it.

the second amendment ensures the right to bear firearms (excluding convicted felons and persons convicted of crimes that excludes them from Concealed Carry LEGALLY) to conceal carry, self defense and hunt.

Firing a weapon: 1. Know your Dominant eye hand configuration ( I use my left eye so its on the left side of my body with my hand on the stock) 2. Point 3. Aim 4. Breath (and when you end that breath your firearm is leveled) 5. squeeze the trigger NOT PULL.

Bam now practice and know your shooting properly so damn hard

Why say Canada is a magic land just because it has proper gun regulation and low gun related crimes ?

after all of the paperwork and money you have to put into owning a firearm only being able to have it store in a government sanction firing range? yeah thats real progression!

Tony-DarkGrave
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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-04 06:01:53 Reply

and speaking of Firearms I missed Knob Creek Firearm Expo in KY again this year.. the only place in the country where you can actually shoot off fully Auto Machine guns like military grade, flame throwers buy any kind of firearm you want. damn if I only knew it was coming around and I saved enough money I would have gone. I been wanting a M16A3 and there I can get my hands on custom parts like longer barrels and High Cap mags. plus I been looking in the market for a nice Sniper Rifle.

Tony-DarkGrave
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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-04 11:13:27 Reply

if you want more info on Knob Creek go here

anything gun related is Legal at Knob Creek its a gun enthusiast paradise.

leanlifter1
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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-04 14:51:04 Reply

At 11/3/12 05:32 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:
after all of the paperwork and money you have to put into owning a firearm only being able to have it store in a government sanction firing range? yeah thats real progression!

The ranges are "Private" owned and operated businesses and you only have to store the gun on the range when "You Do Not Have a License" to own one. When you eventually acquire a license if you so choose then you may present it to the "Private Owned" range where your weapon is stored and you will be enabled to remove your property off the premises. Guns owners need licensing just as you would not expect people to be on the road driving a car without some sort of onus in the form of a license that certifies that the driver knows just WTF they are doing so as to not accidentally kill someone by way of dereliction of responsibility.


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Tony-DarkGrave
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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-04 16:46:16 Reply

and if you payed attention to my post you would have read that Canada makes it increasingly difficult and costly to get said licenses to where its not even worth getting. and its not like its worth it you can't even own any of the fun Firearms in Canadia anyways.

leanlifter1
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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-04 21:29:24 Reply

At 11/4/12 04:46 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: and if you payed attention to my post you would have read that Canada makes it increasingly difficult and costly to get said licenses to where its not even worth getting. and its not like its worth it you can't even own any of the fun Firearms in Canadia anyways.

Your opinion does not count.


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919CDS
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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-04 22:17:55 Reply

gun control does NOTHING, NOTHING AT ALL except leave innocent people defenseless, you really think someone about to rob or murder someone is going to get a gun legally?? if you do you're just a dumbass pointblank, just a complete fuckin idiot, im sorry but I love shooting guns, its like a sport

*If you dont want to be insulted*

gun control only effects people who get guns legally and follow the laws, criminals will get guns illegally and rob people much easier, they tried a gun ban in washington dc or somethin and crime WENT UP because they knew noone had guns to but theyre ass with


I always come with a good plan, when that dont work I switch out to the hood plan

,.l.. >_< ..l.,

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leanlifter1
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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-05 01:32:54 Reply

At 11/4/12 10:17 PM, 919CDS wrote: gun control does NOTHING, NOTHING AT ALL except leave innocent people defenseless, you really think someone about to rob or murder someone is going to get a gun legally?? if you do you're just a dumbass pointblank, just a complete fuckin idiot, im sorry but I love shooting guns, its like a sport

*If you dont want to be insulted*

gun control only effects people who get guns legally and follow the laws, criminals will get guns illegally and rob people much easier, they tried a gun ban in washington dc or somethin and crime WENT UP because they knew noone had guns to but theyre ass with

If a person is defenseless a gun won't change that fact. I think your ego has got in the way of logical thinking as I have never needed a gun of course the trick is to using your brain and not putting yourself in harms way which a gun does just that puts you in harms way. Plus when your trying to "be smart" with a gun in hand "protecting yourself" because YOU put yourself in a bad spot then you will go to jail for murder or some other charge point blank and period not worth the hassle.


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Tony-DarkGrave
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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-05 03:50:34 Reply

At 11/4/12 09:29 PM, leanlifter1 wrote:
At 11/4/12 04:46 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: and if you payed attention to my post you would have read that Canada makes it increasingly difficult and costly to get said licenses to where its not even worth getting. and its not like its worth it you can't even own any of the fun Firearms in Canadia anyways.
Your opinion does not count.

yes It does I know the gun laws in depth both US and Canada and its assinine in canada. I own Firearms (plenty of them) and know enough that gun control in the US will only effect law abiding citizens yet criminals will still get guns.

Tony-DarkGrave
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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-05 12:08:43 Reply

and if anyone is interested here are some links to get everything you need firearms wise!

Concealed Carry -find where you can get your concealed carry and fiearm carrying permits/Licenses!
Guns America get Firearms and accessories of any kind to hand guns to AR-15s new for CHEAP!

RacistBassist
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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-05 19:07:57 Reply

At 11/5/12 01:32 AM, leanlifter1 wrote: If a person is defenseless a gun won't change that fact.

That makes absolutely zero sense. If they had a firearm, they would no longer be defenseless.

I think your ego has got in the way of logical thinking as I have never needed a gun of course the trick is to using your brain and not putting yourself in harms way which a gun does just that puts you in harms way.

I'm sorry, but when someone is working on their car in the garage and some muppet with a knife comes and tries to rob them, I hardly call that putting themselves in harms way.

Plus when your trying to "be smart" with a gun in hand "protecting yourself" because YOU put yourself in a bad spot then you will go to jail for murder or some other charge point blank and period not worth the hassle.

If I walk to the convenience store to get a slurpee, I am not purposefully putting myself in a bad spot, but that will not change the fact if some parrick decides to rob the joint while I'm checking out


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919CDS
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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-05 19:55:19 Reply

At 11/5/12 01:32 AM, leanlifter1 wrote:

" because YOU put yourself in a bad spot then you will go to jail for murder or some other charge point blank and period not worth the hassle.

so someone breaks into my house trying to rob and murder me and my family im suppose to just let it happen??? I did nothing to be robbed, If someones gonna kill me ill shoot them right in the chest you dont have to murder them, I just wanna stop them and if they die....they shouldnt of broke in my house

Now how did I put myself i nthat situation, and dont say just get a security system, because we all know how long it takes to for police to arrive, im already dead and robbed by that time


I always come with a good plan, when that dont work I switch out to the hood plan

,.l.. >_< ..l.,

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leanlifter1
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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-05 20:15:08 Reply

At 11/5/12 07:55 PM, 919CDS wrote:
If someones gonna kill me ill shoot them right in the chest you dont have to murder them, I just wanna stop them and if they die....they shouldnt of broke in my house

You might want to look into something referred to as "The non Aggression Principle" ! Also you have the choice to move to a low NO crime area so it would hypothetically be your fault that YOU let someone break into your home at night. Also there's no guns in jail well YOU won't have one when you go there after you are tried for murder and receive a reduced sentience for murder under "Self Defense" of perhaps you may be able to convince the judge it was a crime of passion.


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RacistBassist
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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-05 21:23:48 Reply

At 11/5/12 08:15 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: You might want to look into something referred to as "The non Aggression Principle" ! Also you have the choice to move to a low NO crime area so it would hypothetically be your fault that YOU let someone break into your home at night. Also there's no guns in jail well YOU won't have one when you go there after you are tried for murder and receive a reduced sentience for murder under "Self Defense" of perhaps you may be able to convince the judge it was a crime of passion.

I live in a pretty nice middle class neighborhood that has a low crime rate.

Yet here we are, with a few stabbings, shootings, and break ins occurring over the past few years. You show just how privileged you are if you think people can just up and move to a low crime area. Here's the thing, you kill someone in justifiable self defense, you are not going to jail. You really show your ignorance


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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-05 22:23:37 Reply

At 11/5/12 09:23 PM, RacistBassist wrote:
At 11/5/12 08:15 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: You might want to look into something referred to as "The non Aggression Principle" ! Also you have the choice to move to a low NO crime area so it would hypothetically be your fault that YOU let someone break into your home at night. Also there's no guns in jail well YOU won't have one when you go there after you are tried for murder and receive a reduced sentience for murder under "Self Defense" of perhaps you may be able to convince the judge it was a crime of passion.
I live in a pretty nice middle class neighborhood that has a low crime rate.

Yet here we are, with a few stabbings, shootings, and break ins occurring over the past few years. You show just how privileged you are if you think people can just up and move to a low crime area. Here's the thing, you kill someone in justifiable self defense, you are not going to jail. You really show your ignorance

yea this guy said everything that I was about to say pretty much, except I livei n the country and you never know, I doubt someones gonna break in when I have 2 big dogs that bark loud as hell (only 1 would probably bite tho) BUT if they do I have all the legal right to shoot the intruder

"A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence is justified in using any degree of force that the occupant reasonably believes is necessary, including deadly force, against an intruder to prevent a forcible entry into the home or residence or to terminate the intruder's unlawful entry (i) if the occupant reasonably apprehends that the intruder may kill or inflict serious bodily harm to the occupant or others in the home or residence, or (ii) if the occupant reasonably believes that the intruder intends to commit a felony in the home or residence." yea I love living in North Carolina


I always come with a good plan, when that dont work I switch out to the hood plan

,.l.. >_< ..l.,

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leanlifter1
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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-06 02:25:39 Reply

At 11/5/12 10:23 PM, 919CDS wrote:
"A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence is justified in using any degree of force that the occupant bla bla bla .....

How convenient you like post without citing your sources.


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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-06 04:47:50 Reply

At 11/6/12 02:25 AM, leanlifter1 wrote:
At 11/5/12 10:23 PM, 919CDS wrote:
"A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence is justified in using any degree of force that the occupant bla bla bla .....
How convenient you like post without citing your sources.

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/Sessions/2011/Bills/House/HTML/H 1192v1.html

see I just highlighted the stuff between the quotes, right-clicked and then used the 'search Google for...' function on Google Chrome. Even without Google, it's not hard to check sources.

However, you never cited your source for your claim that people go to jail for killing intruders in self defense.

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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-06 08:02:06 Reply

At 11/6/12 04:47 AM, Earfetish wrote:
At 11/6/12 02:25 AM, leanlifter1 wrote:
At 11/5/12 10:23 PM, 919CDS wrote:
"A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence is justified in using any degree of force that the occupant bla bla bla .....
How convenient you like post without citing your sources.
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/Sessions/2011/Bills/House/HTML/H 1192v1.html

see I just highlighted the stuff between the quotes, right-clicked and then used the 'search Google for...' function on Google Chrome. Even without Google, it's not hard to check sources.

However, you never cited your source for your claim that people go to jail for killing intruders in self defense.

exactly, wheres your source? the only thing Ive heard about someone goin to jail for killing an intruder is because he shot him in the back when the intruder ran out of his house


I always come with a good plan, when that dont work I switch out to the hood plan

,.l.. >_< ..l.,

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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-06 08:23:32 Reply

answer me this Leanlifter I live in Western Minnesota/Eastern North Dakota I live in a town of about 130,000 we have a low crime rate, but with the Oilfields paying up the yazoo for workers were getting people from the West coast and the South (all sorts of trash) Originally we had a low crime rate but with oil field workers coming from all over the country crime has soared 200% and there have been many break ins in PRivate homes and alot of people in this region are armed (3 to 1 gun ratio)
so someone breaks into my house trying to rob and murder me and my family im suppose to just let it happen??? I did nothing to be robbed, If someones gonna kill me ill shoot them right in the chest you dont have to murder them, I just wanna stop them and if they die....they shouldnt of broke in my house

and its been happening often and these people dont get convicted of shooting burglars.

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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-06 10:56:51 Reply

Sorry lean, but almost every (possibly every, I don't feel like looking up 50 different state's laws, especially now I no longer have free access to Westlaw) state has the castle addition to self defense meaning that in order to protect one's personal home (not second home, or ancillary property) they can use dedly fore to repel an intruder. The castle exception makes the intrusion per se (not 100% on this, but pretty confident) a danger of serious physical injury. Otherwise deadly force would only be allowed in protection from harm to people, not property, and that expected harm must be seriously injurious or deadly itself.

You're fighting a losing battle here.

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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-06 14:14:17 Reply

At 11/6/12 04:47 AM, Earfetish wrote:
However, you never cited your source for your claim that people go to jail for killing intruders in self defense.

Murders do go to jail for murdering and just cause there's a law that says killing is allowed in the home does not make it just and morally right. If your a murder you need to be locked up and studied.


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Response to We Need Gun Control 2012-11-06 14:17:54 Reply

At 11/6/12 10:56 AM, Camarohusky wrote: Sorry lean, but almost every (possibly every, I don't feel like looking up 50 different state's laws, especially now I no longer have free access to Westlaw) state has the castle addition to self defense meaning that in order to protect one's personal home (not second home, or ancillary property) they can use dedly fore to repel an intruder. The castle exception makes the intrusion per se (not 100% on this, but pretty confident) a danger of serious physical injury. Otherwise deadly force would only be allowed in protection from harm to people, not property, and that expected harm must be seriously injurious or deadly itself.

You're fighting a losing battle here.

The problem is most people talk big and puff out there chest but when the bullet hit the bones and the blood splatters and they realize they have killed someone it's a different story and they also think they will have time against some that potentially stronger and faster than them what if the victim gets shot first dummies LOL. What do you guy's think this is the wild west LOL.


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