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At 5/28/07 10:08 PM, Dr-Worm wrote: Grrrrr. You stupid stupid people.

Of course America hasn't contributed more to the world than any other culture ever. That'd be stupid. But we've done a helluva lot, and I'm damn proud of it.

We have done quite a bit, definitely. And you should be proud of it, after all it was you who contributed so much, Mr America.

If it weren't for the U.S., you'd all be speaking German (uh...twice) and I'd have never been born.

WWI probably would have ended one way or another, the USA just sort of served as a catalyst. WW2 is a different story though. Not that the USA contributed completely, as anyone with the slightest knowledge would know this, but we did contribute a considerable effort.

All I'm saying is that nationalism is ridiculous. The USA is fantastic yes, but only when it is fantastic. It's not fantastic just because it's the USA and you were born here.

But our subjects are so habituated to associate with us as equals, that any defeat whatever that clashes with their notions of justice, whether it proceed from a legal judgement or from the power which our empire gives us, makes them forget to be grateful for being allowed to retain most of their posessions, and more vexed at a part being taken away, than if we had from the first cast law aside and openly gratified our covetousness. If we had done so, not even would they have disputed that the weaker must give way to the stronger. Mens indignation, it seems, is more excited by legal wrong than by violent wrong; the first looks like being cheated by an equal, the second like being compelled by a superior. At all events they contrived to put up with much worse treatment than this from the Mede (Persians) yet they think our rule severe and this is to be expected, for the present always weighs heavy on the conqueored.
-Speech from an Athenian delegation to the Spartans before the outbreak of the Peloponessian War as reported by Thucydides

Its amazing how astute the Greeks were, isnt it? Same words, yet still applicible thousands of years later.

At 5/28/07 10:08 PM, Dr-Worm wrote: Grrrrr. You stupid stupid people.

Of course America hasn't contributed more to the world than any other culture ever. That'd be stupid. But we've done a helluva lot, and I'm damn proud of it.

If it weren't for the U.S., you'd all be speaking German (uh...twice) and I'd have never been born.

Erm, ok....correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Americas main goal of attack was Japan because they attacked you first? And that you were attacked completly by suprise....Two years into a global war. And the only thing you didn't do out of pure vengence was trying to supply Britian and Europe which was a bit of a cock up since the Nazi's bombed anything that moved in the ocean. And oh yeah lets not forget that if it wasn't for us, you would be speaking Spanish. Come to think of it if it wasn't for this little catholic several hundred years ago, United States wouldn't exist at all.

SWING!

At 5/29/07 02:18 PM, Brick-top wrote: Erm, ok....correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Americas main goal of attack was Japan because they attacked you first? And that you were attacked completly by suprise....

This is debated. There are signs that point to the idea that our higher-ups actually knew (or foresaw) that Japan was planning an attack but ignored it either out of desire to join the war with great support and unity that only comes out of being on the defensive side, or other.

Two years into a global war. And the only thing you didn't do out of pure vengence was trying to supply Britian and Europe which was a bit of a cock up since the Nazi's bombed anything that moved in the ocean.

That's not true at all. The USA, and especially under Roosevelt, was particularly tactful, not vengeful. The Allied system of "unconditional surrender" was a bit ridiculous, but that goes for everyone, not just the USA. And besides, the USA still did supply Britain even if the Nazis bombed everything that moved. That shouldn't be ruled out.

And oh yeah lets not forget that if it wasn't for us, you would be speaking Spanish.

That was back when we were you.

Come to think of it if it wasn't for this little catholic several hundred years ago, United States wouldn't exist at all.

True. But that was several hundred years ago. Much has changed since then.

SWING!

Ja sicher.

I hate to pick at this, but I don't preach the USA's godliness like some, as I know it's faulty, and I also am not one to take the preaching of the USA's past insolence, especially when it's exaggerated or just plain untrue.

At 5/30/07 02:44 AM, Tancrisism wrote:

At 5/29/07 02:18 PM, Brick-top wrote: Erm, ok....correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Americas main goal of attack was Japan because they attacked you first? And that you were attacked completly by suprise....

This is debated. There are signs that point to the idea that our higher-ups actually knew (or foresaw) that Japan was planning an attack but ignored it either out of desire to join the war with great support and unity that only comes out of being on the defensive side, or other.

Yes, is that like the moon landing is fake? I don't think so. If they did know I don't think they would be stupid enough to ignore it regardless of intentions.

Two years into a global war. And the only thing you didn't do out of pure vengence was trying to supply Britian and Europe which was a bit of a cock up since the Nazi's bombed anything that moved in the ocean.

That's not true at all. The USA, and especially under Roosevelt, was particularly tactful, not vengeful.

WRONG! Near the end of the war he wanted to bring Germany to its knees. Not just make them surrender but he gave the word a whole new level. Even his voice in saying it sounded vegeful.

And oh yeah lets not forget that if it wasn't for us, you would be speaking Spanish.

That was back when we were you.

It was a little bit before that.

Come to think of it if it wasn't for this little catholic several hundred years ago, United States wouldn't exist at all.

True. But that was several hundred years ago. Much has changed since then.

Much has changed in the last 60 years but it doesn't stop people.

SWING!

Ja sicher.

Jahappy meal.

At 5/25/07 09:42 PM, zzzzd wrote:

At 5/25/07 09:13 PM, Tancrisism wrote:

At 5/25/07 09:10 PM, zzzzd wrote: Unfortunatly some peoples experiences with Americans is with people like cellardoor who only know how to make completly false claims like the old 'We saved your asses in WW1 and WW2' Which is bollocks.

I'm not saying that the USA is solely responsible, but how do you figure? The USA did a lot in WW2, although not so much in WW1 except a tad of a morale boost.

Britain won the battle of Britain before America entered the war and the axis would never of been able to get passed the Royal Navy.
Lend-Lease started right at the end of the battle of britain and even then Lend-Lease HELPED Britain fight overseas. Britain was well capable of defending itself. Hitlers plans of invading Britain were cancelled before america entered the war. And if Britain couldn't defend itself then how on fuck did it manage to be the primary force in the Atlantic, the Med, Africa, South East Asia and the Middle East as well as doing about half as much as America in Western Europe.

By all means say America saved the frenchies asses but remember so did the British Commonwealth.

By the time we entered the war, the British were far weaker than the Nazi's. They would not have been able to hold out forever. And even the Soviets admitted that without the massive amount of US production and forces, Germany would have been the winner. If Germany had not had to fight heavily on both fronts, do you really think the Soviets alone would have won?

As for World War I, we pretty much broke up the stalemate and got the war ended a lot sooner than it would have been. However, our involvement was not of critical importance like in WW2.

At 5/29/07 01:38 AM, Tancrisism wrote: We have done quite a bit, definitely. And you should be proud of it, after all it was you who contributed so much, Mr America.

I can't tell if this is sarcastic or not...

WWI probably would have ended one way or another, the USA just sort of served as a

catalyst.

Actually, the entirety of Allied resources were on the verge of running out. As were Central powers. Also, the war was in complete stalemate, and both armies would have just completely obliterated each other, leaving Europe a smoldering ruin, if the U.S. hadn't come in and totally revitalized the Allies.

WW2 is a different story though. Not that the USA contributed completely, as anyone with the slightest knowledge would know this, but we did contribute a considerable effort.

Obviously we didn't do everything, but we did do more than any other single nation. We WERE the only country on all three fronts, after all.

All I'm saying is that nationalism is ridiculous. The USA is fantastic yes, but only when it is fantastic. It's not fantastic just because it's the USA and you were born here.

I think nationalism is great if it doesn't turn to chauvinism (i.e. believing other countries are vastly inferior to your supreme will). I think the USA is fantastic, not because I was born here, but because of the values it was built on, and because of the freedom and prosperity we enjoy here, as well as our accomplishments on the world stage.

Unfortunately, we're in the midst of a political-clusterfuck era (which all countries go through) and the rest of the world only looks at the U.S. for its current international policy fumbles, rather than all its good qualities. I'm sure we'll make it through this presidency still standing, though, and perhaps the next one will set things right.

^^^^^
Peaceful transition of power. Another reason why I love my country :)

I'm half and half. One, I'm proud to be an American, because I live in one of the most powerful countries in the world, and I hope to be an influentail person. I also believe that we here in America are some of the most intelligent people in the planet. However, per capita, we are some of the dumbest people in the world. This is mostly because some people don't care about their education, because, in my opinion, they think that they don't have to go to college to make money to support a family. This is positively reinforced by the "American Dream" nonsense. Just because you try your hardest at one thing doesn't mean that you can breeze by school without caring, drop out at age sixteen, and hope to open up a repair shop. The people who on places like Jiffy Lube, Sears, and The Moxie Brothers (who are almost completely bankrupt by the way) had to go to college in order to learn the basics of buisiness. Nowadays, you almost must have a degree of some sort in order to be a highly succesful person in the united states. Even those with a GED do not have the most succesful careers. Usually, the end up working sub-standard jobs, and often times have to work a second job.