Proffesional Freelance?

[Snubby]

Is it possible to make a living just making your own freelance Flash work and the collecting money from ads? I'm sure if luis had more ads on his site that'd be possible? Right? Before my site had downtime I was getting 2k visitors a day and about $1.50/d, and I'm still in highschool so if you calculate like another couple years of work wouldn't that be possible with like a part-time job or something?

Thanks.

[JeremysFilms]

It is possible if you have a popular enough site. Newgrounds lives off of ads and Tom's business is newgrounds last time I checked?

But making 1.50 a day is nothing. If you got a part-time job, and you're in the US, minimum wage is like 6 something. So wit ha part time job you can make like at least $18 a day if you work 3 hours.

So if you plan to count your 1.50 a day as a part time job you are incorrect.

[elmicah]

Most of the time no. If you want to freelance you have to do jobs for other people that maybe you arent interested in. Making a living from ads means you hafta have a shitload of content and somehow get wildly popular which is more than a single person can do. i think thats how it works anyway

[Snubby]

At 5/18/07 11:15 PM, JeremysFilms wrote: So if you plan to count your 1.50 a day as a part time job you are incorrect.

Thanks for the info. I wasn't planning on living off of 1.50 a day, that's just an example of what I am making right now.

[Luis]

At 5/18/07 11:22 PM, elmicah wrote: Most of the time no. If you want to freelance you have to do jobs for other people that maybe you arent interested in. Making a living from ads means you hafta have a shitload of content and somehow get wildly popular which is more than a single person can do. i think thats how it works anyway

Yep. Hes right.
The problem is for you to really get to the 'big leagues' of ad revenue you have to pull in major numbers traffic. The google ads and the small scale ad revenue systems are sort of like a casino where the house always wins and in the long run they make back what they gave you.
For massive amounts of visits you need constantly fresh content, thats the kind of environment newgrounds has where tom isnt slaving over making a flash movie everyday, the users carry that load for him, he's innovated a way for him to provide users with an easy reliable way for people to contribute to the site and sort of let the users run the site both in terms of what is submitted to the world and also what stays on the site (blame/save) hes also sprinkled in things like levels and forums and stuff and so newgrounds becomes this hub of traffic where its satisfying alot of needs...

In a scenario like that then you have large traffic streams and that is what advertisers want.. once you get to that point then the revenue model begins to change where you are selling ads based on ad impressions rather than how many people click on them (although people clicking is still essentially important). But like as advertiser if i go on a site like this and you tell me ok i can guarantee you 10,000 eyeballs a week for a superbanner ad placement... then advertisers are like ok this site can get my goods to reach this many people and so youre paid on the performance of what you offer rather than everytime a person clicks on it.

As for my site, i get pretty good numbers , but for like 50 bucks or whatever a month that i may make on banner ad advertising it just isnt worth it... lets say at best i make 1000 a month... thats still hardly enough to pay my rent and for that 1000 id have to totally polute my site with banner ad placements... its just not worthwhile in my opinion.

The site is still run entirely by me, i like it that way, im not out to build a portal i just want a little space on the web where i have my soapbox. And i do and im happy with that.
I DID add new features though, like integrating more with other artists, one important lesson ive learned about the business is to not pigeonhole yourself... really open yourself up to what people want. I used to think well its my site i dont want to have anyone elses shit on my site but the truth is that people want to be entertained and at the end of the day they dont care by whom.. so i figured why not satisfy their needs and so almost 60 percent of my site is now links to OTHER peoples work or plugging other artists.. this is intentionally done and its actually worked out better, ive seen more traffic ..shit like interviewing other artists and not being scared to offer people other entertaining things on the web was key.

In regards to freelancing, its definately not for everyone... its great if you are a real go-getter.. you are your own boss which comes with alot of baggage (and perks). I did freelancing for a year and a half and for the first 4 months it went pretty well but then i found myself miserable because you really have to be serious about treating it like a business.. that means invoicing, setting up teleconfrences, selling yourself, and really doing heavy heavy networking. I'm the kind of guy that likes to be low key and so that was something really difficult for me. Another aspect i hated was all the paperwork involved.. obviously once you start to get things going you can afford to hire someone to do your bookeeping but at the start you are your own man and so you really have to be on top of things... i remember come tax time i got rapped by the IRS cause i didnt keep good books. Theres perks as well tho.. working in your underwear, business expensing your books/computers/travel. I have friends who are doing well freelancing and its definately a doable thing you just sort of have to have the personality for it. I find myself happier doing corporate with a steady paycheck and just sprinkling freelance when i feel like it.

-L

wow long post.

[Snubby]

Thanks Luis, that's very helpful. I read it all. Didn't realize all the legal stuff with taxes and whatnot you have to do. Thinking about it, my website will probably end up as something just to bring in a bit of money on the side.

[Luis]

well im not discouraging you by any means.. you just have to know what sort of personality you have.. like i said i have some friends who swear by freelancing and they are well off.

If you have the personality for it, then go for it youll do well. :)

[DFox]

I don't agree with what people previously said about a shitload of content and stuff.

The bottom line is you have a good idea. It's all the idea. The most popular sites on the web provide close to no content, including Newgrounds, for their site. It's user-submitted content and interactivity which is the way to go.

If you have a good idea, and you execute it right, you'll get the visitors. With large quantities of visitors comes money. Even Google Ads can bring in a substantial amount of money if you get a substantial amount of visitors that are constant flowing.

Just for a Flash portfolio site, it's hard, but you can still bring in some extra money, but a living would be hard. I'd go with more like a service.

[DFox]

At 5/19/07 02:09 AM, DFox wrote: Just for a Flash portfolio site, it's hard, but you can still bring in some extra money, but a living would be hard. I'd go with more like a service.

Just in case I wasn't clear, what I meant was try to combine your Flash skills with something else to form a service or unique site because that can probably be more popular and profitable.

[dreadfear1]

Even though you weren't asking this I just visited your site. Its great and all but it's not eye-catching. It needs more content. Alot more.

[shazwoogle]

At 5/18/07 11:44 PM, Luis wrote: Yep. Hes right.
tldr..

You are really bored arn't you?

[Snubby]

Thanks DFox. I remember a long time ago me and sweetskater sat down and tried to think of something we could make money with. A lot of sites have weekly animations, like homestarrunner.com or spacetree.com (not anymore, though). They both make a living with it, too. I don't know, it's something to think about I guess.

At 5/19/07 02:32 AM, dreadfear1 wrote: Even though you weren't asking this I just visited your site. Its great and all but it's not eye-catching. It needs more content. Alot more.

Yeah it pretty much focuses on Duck Luck which has currently 7 episodes, everything else is kind of sparse. There are 6 games but 5 of them are minigames. I'm working on making more movies, better games, and tons of comics. It's a slow process, though.