Beauty is bone-deep...

[BullRat]

I guess being one out of a few million femmes in America that really don't like their bodies, I got to thinking and decided to raise another question (don't worry, I'm not drunk... and this topic isn't meant to piss off anyone.)...

I am 5'5", 120-125lb (depending on if I eat or not for a few days), 34B, and wear a size 5 jeans. Now, watching TV and movies, and looking at magazines a such, I've come to really believe that my form does not really fit the norm for an "average" American woman. Looking at all these super-beatuful, super-fake, and yet "perfect" women makes a girl like me really despise the way I look. So I guess this topic is directed more towards the men here on NG:

Are our standards for women's image too high? Because they seem so impossibly out of reach for me to ever look like I "should." It seems the only thing I have going for me is my blue eyes... but I don't think such trivial features as eyes really matter anymore... What do you think? When it comes to women, how thin is too thin? HOw big is too big when it comes to their breasts? Is fake beauty (i.e. plastic surgery, implants, ect.) really beautiful?

[Jimsween]

Hehe... The topic says bone deep...

[Commander-K25]

At 5/26/03 04:04 AM, jimsween wrote: Hehe... The topic says bone deep...

Cover your ears and divert your eyes, lest you be corrupted, young 'un.

[Shih]

All right, this is a topic I generally prefer to avoid since it makes me sound like I'm full of shit but here goes anyways. Most women have at least one attractive feature about them, you just have to be willing to look. Personally I can't stand the fact that a lot of women tend to look like teir all built from a make a barbie kit. Granted I'm minnesotan so natural blonds aren't that rare here but the fact that almost 8 out of 10 women I see are blond bugs me too.

On a side note I looked at your profile Kittie, and it brings up a counter question of my own. Why do attractive women always insist they're not? You look pretty damn good in my humble opinion and it really bugs me when people say they're not.

(On a side not I liked the Quote in your profile. Ahh the Irish. We'll fight for any reason at any time, and buy ya a drink after it's over.)

[House-Of-Leaves]

Well, being a woman, I can agree that image is a too-big concern here in america.

I can also shed a little light as to why America is such a fat country.

First of all...I'm by no means skinny. My boyfriend enjoys my being voluptuous, and while I'm not nearly obese, I've got curves that some men enjoy.

That being said, I also see the women in magazines or on television, and most of them make me want to scream out, "ANOREXIA KILLS!" It's amazing what sort of standard people old men and women to today...and yes, it's not just women. It's very hard on young men, too.

Now, as for health and America. I realized that a while back, it's partly our culture that's to blame. Most european countries and cultures have their large meals in the noon-time, at lunch. Then they eat a small, sensible supper. Here in America, or similar cultures?

Well, shit. We eat big meals at night, then sit and do nothing til we go to bed. That's a BIG contributor to our declining physical fitness.

All in all, standards of beauty have always been higher than what is the norm. I've also come to realize that I can't hold myself to those standards or I'll just be upset and disappointed in myself. So I just try to stay healthy and be what I can be.

I always know I'm beautiful, dammit. ;)

[TheShrike]

Well, I agree with you, but to a point...

Everything you've said is true about the media force-feeding us what is beautiful and what isn't, but it's not like you have to buy into it. After all, how often do you see the women in those magazines walk down the street? How often do you see normal women walk down the street? What about pressure upon men? Do we not also see super-model men with six-pack abs everywhere in the media? You talk about breast size, I say: PENIS ENVY.

When all is said and done, I think it all boils down to this:

YOU NEED TO GET OVER IT. No one is perfect.

Now, no woman or man should let pop culture define for them what is and is not beautiful.

I'm no Tom Cruise, but I don't loathe my body. I have a beautiful girlfriend. Well, she's beautiful to me. She'll probably never pose for Playboy, but I'm ok with that. What is important is how you feel. How you see yourself. But even more important than that, is that you don't define your worth or beauty by what's on the cover of some silly magazine.

I'm not going to stroke your ego. Why? You know the truth. Shih made a good point. You aren't ugly. You'll probably never pose for Playboy, either. But I'd date you. Really. Ok, So I guess now I'm stroking your ego, but the point stands.

Get over it.

[PreacherJ]

At 5/26/03 04:25 AM, TheShrike wrote:

*Lies under kittie and positions her "over it"*

[Jimsween]

At 5/26/03 04:28 AM, PreacherJ wrote:

At 5/26/03 04:25 AM, TheShrike wrote:

*Lies under kittie and positions her "over it"*

Oh this is just too easy, TALK ABOUT BONEING DEEPLY!!!

[PreacherJ]

*marks down anm assist for jimmy*

Ahh. The simple things in life.

Word.

[House-Of-Leaves]

*LOL*

Nice, Preacher.

Hmm, on to the meat of the issue.

*cough*

Getting 'over it' is easier said than done. Obviously, if it were that easy, it simply wouldn't be an issue, would it? But the human psyche doesn't allow us to simply 'get over it'.

Think of it this way: coupling is, at the core, an instinct for perpetuating the species. Men look for women that are appealing to them because they turn them on, they're able to impregnate them, and spread their seed.

Us women, if one thinks of humans as having the same sort of instincts as animals, also wish to breed and perpetuate the species. We desire to be attractive so we can be 'picked' and couple with someone. We're communal creatures. We want to be with one of our own. We have to be attractive to -someone- or we'd just...be out of the game.

That being said, there's lots of beautiful women that like to call attention to it by saying, "I'm so ugly," then waiting for men to reassure them. I'm not saying that's what's happening here, but it happens a LOT among young girls. It's a way of getting compliments without outright asking for them outright.

Me? I'm old enough to just look at my boyfriend, smile, and say, 'I'm exceptionally cute today, aren't I?' Ah, the security that comes with age.

It's a growing process. It's also just nature. We can't just 'get over it'. That's not what we do.

We're women. We bitch.

[TheShrike]

Well, I honestly belive Kittie is fishing for compliments, but I just hate hearing the whole 'media' aregument.

[bumcheekcity]

I hate the way girls moan about being fat. If you're fat, lose weight. Simple as that.

[BullRat]

At 5/26/03 04:30 AM, jimsween wrote:

At 5/26/03 04:28 AM, PreacherJ wrote:

At 5/26/03 04:25 AM, TheShrike wrote:

*Lies under kittie and positions her "over it"*

Oh this is just too easy, TALK ABOUT BONEING DEEPLY!!!

Argh... I SO didn't mean that to be a derogitory topic title. It was meant as a spoof of the "beauty is skin deep" cliche, but, thanx to the wonders of plastic, many people daren't even using their own skin anymore. Let's just fix our thighs, cheeks, noses, breasts, ect... Where's there room to say that beauty is skin deep anymore? THAT'S what I was trying to get at... *grumbles and goes off to break something*

[BullRat]

At 5/26/03 05:49 AM, TheShrike wrote: Well, I honestly belive Kittie is fishing for compliments, but I just hate hearing the whole 'media' aregument.

Believe what you want. I'm not here to argue... for once... Just trying to make a point. *shrugs*

[FUNKbrs]

Ugly girls need love too.

In fact, here are some reasons men are ATTRACTED to ugly girls:

Ugly girls try to impress. They know they arent pretty, so they compensate with things like loyalty and open heartedness. I've known quite a few "ugly" girls that I really liked, simply because they had good attitudes. And besides, when the lights are off, it doesn't really matter, does it?

"If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, make an ugly woman your wife. Take my personal point of view, get an ugly girl to marry you."

[Lyddiechu]

ok im 5'5.5", 135 lbs (out of season) 34 D and a bit on the muscular side for a female but thats because of rowing. i am also extremely appeareance oriented but thats not because of the media, no my friend, its because of darwin. in going to focus on the issue of weight here because it matters a lot to me (because of making weight for a sport) and society (as a factor in your appearance). its just not freaking natural for people to be fat. there shouldnt be these support groups saying oh fat is beautiful blah blah fat activists and the like becuase its just unhealthy. its an american epidemic. jesus christ i am going to make my kids wake up at 6 every morning and exercize because american kids are just too goddamn lazy!!!!

on another note.. i will resort to plastic surgery to preserve my appearance. heck, when i am 40 something and have had 2 kids and my tits are sagging past the point of no return, i am going to do something to fix that!!!! there is no way i am going to be running around with fleshy tentacles hitting me in the face. there is really an advantage to being flat!! you can RUN LIKE THE WIND compared to us buxom chicks goddamnit!!!!

well heres a picture so you can judge whether i make the natural appearance selection cut or not:

[Lyddiechu]

damnit why the fuck didnt that work?? ok let me try again: from prom!

[karasz]

well lets face it... the way you look is important. and will be for quite some time.

although i will also say both chicas look good... it all comes down to the person looking...

some people want chicks with big breasts, others dont care, some guys like legs, others dont care, some guys like thighs, others dont care...

personally im a wing-man and i think i have to go to KFC... be back in 10 minutes...

see people are nothing but objects to others.... BUT i do hold the true belief there is someone out there for everyone, the trick is finding them... dont worry about others and their thoughts, be yourself... you will find that special guy or girl whichever the case may be (please god let it be girls and then let them send me the tape...)

dont go through life worrying about everything... you'll never make it out alive

[House-Of-Leaves]

FUNK has a good point. A very good point.

Many men choose to be with homely girls on purpose.

Some men find heavy women more beautiful than skinny ones.

The very image of the goddess in pagan images is, many times, a woman with very shaply hips and a large belly, a symbol of fertility and wealth.

I'm sorry, but I can't remember who said it...whoever made the 'I'm tired of hearing everyone blame it on the media' comment...think about it.

I wish I could remember who it was.

How exactly HASN'T the media changed the perception of beauty? Do you have any concept of what was considered beautiful back before the media? Or perhaps in the early media times? Marilyn Monroe was most popular when she fluctuated between a size 12 and 16...

Ever hear of Twiggy? She was the one who started the rage of skinny women, the stick-and-bones look that not only looks unhealthy but spurns on eating disorders in young girls everywhere.

Research things before you decide that the media has nothing to do with it. If it didn't effect you? So be it. But most of the world is driven by image, and those images flash across our television screens and in our fashion magazines. Women every day are told that they need to snip this, tuck that, lose those extra pounds...and not all of them can be like me and say "SCREW YOU, MEDIA IMAGE!"

Nuff said. :)

[Jlop985]

Men do not necessarily like skinny women. In fact, every guy I know is creeped out by skinny anorexic women, myself included. To catch my attention, a girl's weight matters, because I am equally disgusted by really fat girls. In the context of being attractive. Do not misconstrue as an attack against overweight females. ok? Anyways, I even find a BIT of fat on the belly kind of cute, cause it makes the girl all the more real. I love curves in women, and that's what I look for in a body. She cannot be too skinny or fat, but just right. What matters more to me is her face and her personality. This is what I look for in a girl:

SITUATION A: APPROACHING HEAD-ON
1: Her face
2: Her shape
3: Talk to her and figure out what she's like
4: Turn around to look at the butt when she walks away

SITUATION B: APPROACHING FROM BEHIND
1: Her butt
2: Quickly run to see her face.. I don't want to be staring at an ugly girl, now do I?
3: Talk to her- personality

OK, so I've posted what I look for in a girl. Big tangent, huh? Anyways, you're not ugly, and it depends on the guy if weight matters. Actually weight does matter, but every guy has a preference, and a priority level for a girl's weight. Hope the insight into a guy's mind helps.

[Shih]

At 5/28/03 12:11 AM, Lyddiechu wrote: damnit why the fuck didnt that work?? ok let me try again: from prom!

Hominah hominah hominah...
*Shakes head back and forth*

Damn, umnh wow.

[FUNKbrs]

so that's where all the hot chicks are, on the internet. You better get your asses out to the damn bar where the live music is, toot sweet! How the hell else is my fat ass ever gonna score with hot chick unless she sees me rock the hell out? Or at least hire me to DJ a party, or some shit. I NEED MONEY, DAMNIT!

[Freakapotimus]

No, the media isn't all to blame for body-image problems. I'd mostly blame my mother and my ex-boyfriend for my insecurities, but not my fatness. When all you hear growing up is "Oh, you could be so pretty if you just lost weight" and then hearing from your boyfriend that "I'm going to leave you if you get any fatter" you tend to feel like crap about yourself. When your boyfriend says you're attractive then shies away from intimacy, you start thinking things.

Whenever I do start to feel good about myself, I know a quick trip to my mother's will cure that.

[mysecondstar]

At 5/26/03 04:35 AM, House_Of_Leaves wrote: That being said, there's lots of beautiful women that like to call attention to it by saying, "I'm so ugly," then waiting for men to reassure them. I'm not saying that's what's happening here, but it happens a LOT among young girls. It's a way of getting compliments without outright asking for them outright.

amen. i have had my ex dirve me crazy with her "oh god! i'm so ugly!" trick. by the way she's 5'2, 120 lbs with 36c's with a beautiful face. you've got to be a fuggin' retard to think that she wasn't pretty. in fact, just so that i could make her stop in advance i would say things like "oh [expletive]. damn... so do we have to go out tonight?" or some [expletive] like that.

in fact her insecurity would get us into arguements. she's a sweet girl and i try to be as much of a gentleman as i can be. but we were just arguing too much. it starts with one thing and just keeps on growing and growing. *poof* gone.

[Lyddiechu]

yep chicks do that crap all the time. lol whenever i hear a girl say that i go "oh yeah, well, you are kind of ugly" and that shuts them up real fast. its fun to play into stuff like that in exactly the opposite way they expect you to. i think i can only get away with doing that since im a girl and i follow with a "just kidding" right after to make sure i dont get the crap cat-fighted out of me.

see, all the chicks who love the internet arent homely little geeks. most of us are just too young to go clubbing (me), are not single (me again), and have no interest in you trashy nightclubbing men (me thrice). also the internet is way more fun than suburban philly. what the hell am i supposed to do spend all my time in starbucks or shopping at j crew? yeah fuckin right. i only leave my house to go out of state or down into philadelphia in the odd moment that i have some free time.

of course, that will all change next year in college, where ill probably become a trashy frathouse frequenting floozy like the rest of my crew team. wahhoo.

[Shih]

And a fine proud DAG tradition it is.

[mysecondstar]

At 5/28/03 11:34 AM, Lyddiechu wrote: see, all the chicks who love the internet arent homely little geeks. most of us are just too young to go clubbing (me), are not single (me again), and have no interest in you trashy nightclubbing men (me thrice).

you know, i was never really attracted to the skanks at clubs or even some bars for that matter. easy lay? maybe. but still it isn't worth it. i hate doing things like that. i hate having to do things that i will regret or even the other person would regret later. it isn't worth the weight on my conscience. but i still go because you never know who might show up.

but after all the obvious places it is really hard to gauge where all the nicer women are. maybe it's because i'm not one and i can't really say where they could possibly be. plus i haven't been in this whole dating game for about 4 years. i guess i'm just a little out of practice. and plus this whole new single lifestyle is just a little shitty for me. it's more or less cool not to be shackled down perse, but there are always those times where i wish i just had someone there. but then again maybe i'm asking for too much.

[House-Of-Leaves]

Freakapotamus, you're right. There's sources for that sort of ill thought everywhere. I suppose my argument was that a lot of it does come from the media. Not all of it. But a lot. I was never put down as a kid, adult, any time, by my friends OR family. It was media - magazines, television, movies - that first showed me I'm not the -norm-.

As for us chicks on the internet...some of us just have more time on our hands. :) I'm not a homely little girl. I'm just...attached so I don't go out trolling for men a whole lot, don't have much money so I don't go out clubbing a lot, blah blah blah. Just happens that I'm here sometimes.

[nitroxide]

Why are women constantly hating on their own appearance is it just for simple reassurance from their friends or loved ones or is it because they truely dont like their appearance.Is this a psychological flaw in women or is it the media and their standard view of all women on tv.Beauty is not defined it is a matter of opinion i personally like the voluptous thick type not fat but please at least something i can grab on to besides skin and Bone.

Beauty is opinionHere is a question that proves that: Who is hotter Liddie or Kittie?

mmmm....liddie

[mysecondstar]

hahahaha. this is going to lead no where fast. but here goes...

i think that they are both very attractive young ladies. and they both seem to have a mind to match which is actually a pretty big turn on. they say that the biggest sex organ is the brain.