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At 5/19/07 10:45 AM, PicoZX wrote: Take it down!
I'm so offended!
( Not to be rude but I can't believe someone would do that! )
Seriously, fuck you. Newgrounds is known to have controversial flash movies/games that make fun of current events. If you don't like it, THEN LEAVE.
Freedom of speech . . . it can be a pain in the ass at times, such as now, but you have to let drivel like this slide or else it weakens the concept as a whole, which has far more frightening implications.
Plenty of freedom of speech arguments here. Quite funny actually. All of us reacting so strongly to a flash that I personally find neither offensive (nor notable). Plus, it's recreation of the events are surprisingly inaccurate. For all I know, only the names have anything in common (heck the character you played wasn't even really Asian, let alone an image of the killer). If it wasn't for that, it could easily be mistaken for something fictional. Obviously a cheap (and effective) attempt to get some attention.
Also, I would like to add two other bits of information to the rest of you who claim absolute freedom of speech.
1. Does anyone recall the yelling "Fire!" in the theater house argument? Not very applicable to this case, but it does point out we do need to understand self-limitation. If you're too dumb to figure out what it is, then try it at your local theater! (No really don't just think about it.)
2. From what I did see in the game, it almost seems like a vague simulator. Oh! How easily could we could cross the line from 'offensive game' to 'training aid' for future shootings. Yeah, we have the right of free speech, but the government has the right to arrest those who 'promote terrorism' and crap. A slippery slope argument, yes, but recall what happened in March 2003 (and still today).
In retrospect, I guess argument 2 isn't completely true, since there is a 'suicide bombing' game somewhere on this site as well. Hmm. I'm almost tempted to see how many games like this can be made on the site before the FBI takes notice and begins operations to investigate. Maybe we are innocent, but I'd rather not have my life interrupted.
To make a long story short, I vote take it down. If it does get taken down or not, I don't care.
Well, have fun demeaning each other and spouting your arguments, I got better things to do. Man why do I waste my time typing this? Not too many people will read it (nor understand it :P)
O.K. For one thing, this game is sick and wrong. if you were part of the family of or a friend of one of the people who died in that incedent and you saw this game making fun of the death of a loved one or friend, what would you think? I understand that making fun of current events is something newgrounds has done in the past, but a game making fun of a shooting done by a real person who was mentally troubled and killed his fellow classmates, just isn't funny, it's sick. Do you really want Newgrounds to be a site that supports that kind of content? I hope the answer is no.
Pico's School was very offensive and sick but it was just on the border line of ok because it wasn't reality. It wasn't a real event. (yes I know it was inspired by columbine the point is it wasn't directly referring to columbine.
Also I'm not sure any of you understand that it's games like this that give gamers a bad reputation among the rest of the world. It's games like this one that make some people hate video games and make them think they're a terrrible thing and deestroy a persons mind and nature. Often these school shootings are blamed on video games and the reason is because of games like V-Tech rampage. Would you like Newgrouinds to be amplifying this view of gamers? Do you want tthe world to hate gamers? Personally I don't. I think videeo games should be regarded as a respectable form of entertainment like Movies, Music, or TV. V-Tech rampage certainly isn't going to help.
SO PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE TAKE IT DOWN! In respect for those who died in the massecre and for the reputation of gamers everywhere. I don't think we should be laghing about a horrible tragedy. However, I can understand if Newgrounds keeps it up for sake of free speech, but that doesn't mean we as users don't have the right to blam it.
Crying shame one faggot from VA I really hate didn't get brutally slaughtered. I'm still hoping he gets hit by a train, but that's one hell of a long shot.
In regards to the original post... I have no opinion.
At 5/19/07 11:04 AM, Blommestein wrote: ...Or that I simply don't spend all of my time on a forums like some of you, and consequently was offline. By using 'LOL PWN3D' you made any opinion of yours invalid in my eyes. Also its notable that my comment wasn't arguing anything (in that post), but it was merely a comment. This further invalidates your opinion, since you showed that you are a total dumbass.
Oh right I forgot that if a few people provoke a psycho its acceptable and expected that he is to kill a mass number of people and it becomes our fault. Once again, you're a dumbass. In my view, there's nothing argue here. VA Tech killing was wrong, and if you challenge this statement than you're fucked in the head. But there certainly are a number of ignorant people here indeed even supporting the VA massacre, and encouraging and reinforcing each others ideas, since its just a majority of idiots. The fact that someone would say 'Ha-Ha' followed by <Insert tragedy or Massacre here> is just ignorant beyond belief. Thats all I have to say, but expectedly the same mass of idiots will come and say shit back, and encourage each other, and enough of the idiots will agree, and someone will say 'LOL PWN3D' or something to that effect. Wash, rinse, repeat.
My opinion is invalid? Well since I found that when you first made your posts you were insulting others who had valid opinions, and even tried to bring God into this conversation. Maybe we should consider your opinion invalid too, huh? You were just as bad as the people who typed "your a douche" (yes the grammar error is on purpose.)
And I didn't say the shooting was the right thing to do, quit putting words in my mouth. Yes the shooting is wrong but it could of been prevented. I was pointing out a simple fact. Everyone has some blame to share even the shooter.
By the way: LOL, PWN3D <== OOPS MY OPINION IS INVALID NOW! OH WELL!
At 5/19/07 12:05 PM, Maus wrote: For Blommstein, in no way am I defending the actions of school shooters. What I was pointing out was your cavalier attitude towards the manner in which kids (not just bullied ones) today think, feel and then act on those feelings. Bullied kids aren't just wallflowers anymore. With the way the media works itself into a frenzy whenever one of these events happens, a lot of them see violence on a grand scale to be the one way they can be in control and be remembered for it in perpetuity.
Well said mate. At least there are still some people here that don't have double standards and they have common sense instead. Thank God, Buddah, Allah, whatever the fuck.
At 5/19/07 12:53 PM, Bunzi wrote:At 5/19/07 12:40 PM, homor wrote: like some guy on page 25-26 said, these argueements are just going around in circles.you spin me right round baby right round, like a record baby, right round, round round!
Ridin' Spinnaz, Ridin' Spinnaz, they don't stop.
THEY SPINNIN' N***A THEY SPINNIN'!
This is clearly a way to advertise the game. Too bad it can't be removed.
|| DcOrP|| You can't spell harDCORe Porn without DCORP.
Bring Amber Lamps
Obviously none of the other staff members want to touch the game because it's too hot of an issue for them to deal with. We'll see what happens when Tom gets back, then.
At 5/19/07 05:43 PM, Maus wrote:At 5/19/07 05:37 PM, LukeJames wrote: Discussion Over.You would think so, but that's been brought up about a dozen times in this thread.
We are giving him to much attention
At 5/15/07 04:54 PM, Ross wrote: Does this game have any merit, or is it strictly an exercise in poor taste? Are you offended by it? Did you enjoy playing it? Should it be taken down? What do you think?
Though it is without a doubt one of the most tasteless things I've seen recently, I'd like to defend it and support its presence here on Newgrounds.
It has merit for the simple fact that it's not directly harming anybody and does nothing more than inspire emotion. Free speech is just that in that it gives everyone the right to say or project any idea they want, no matter how absurd, idiotic, or completely retarded it may be.
Pendulums always swing far to both sides. We (as the general population) seem to like to glorify our tragedies to the world and inspire mass sympathy. While what happened in Virginia was terrible and does warrant that kind of consolidation, once broadcasted ad nauseum, I think it's to be expected that this kind of response (Pigpen's game) to be inevitable.
I'm sure if I knew anybody at V-tech or was directly affected by the loss, my opinion might be different, however that's only speculation. I'd like to think that I would still support this game either way and stay objective and far removed from my own ego to see that even things in offensive taste have as much a place in our society as things contrary.
Now, whether it stay on Newgrounds (being a private organization with its own sponsors to answer to) or not isn't up to me, but since it's been asked, this is my opinion.
Personally and in light of what those people had to endure, yes, it's offensive. There's no doubt about that. But I don't think that's grounds to remove the game, because that too is nothing more than my own opinion.
Newgrounds has always showcased this kind of thing. It is "Everything by Everyone", not "What we think is appropriate by a select few people." If it didn't have a place on this site, it would have been fairly Blammed by our peers, simple as that. By it even being here at all, the majority of NG users have already clearly made the case that it should not be removed.
Pico's school generated controversy.
The OK City bombing game generated the same.
Smoking Kills pissed people off,
and even Club a Seal started a whole mess of garbage for Newgrounds, but all of them stayed on board and weren't removed, supporting the fact that this website and its content are fairly managed by the people who come here and support it every day.
Don't remove the game. If you do that, you're going to have to remove everything else on this site because one thing or another is going to upset at least someone for some reason.
It belongs here, if anything as a testament to the fact that even assholes have the right to open their mouths from time to time.
It's kinda funny, I think it DESERVES to be taken down because he is willing to (for a price)-he's basically asking for it. It's like "Im going to hold my breath until you do...", exept we'd do it for them (Pigpen).
Unfortunately, I don't want that (removal) to happen to my friend's, my family's, or my game if I made a (somewhat) controversial game. If we take away his right to post a idea here, we stifle our own rights. To tally up the score:
Defending: I don't want any other game removed on the grounds of, "well, that V-tech game was taken off because people got pissed..."/ It's a shotty game, and I am not related to the event, so I am not offended. And if you ARE related...DONT PLAY THE GAME! HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN HOW TO AVERT YOUR EYES? I mean, I don't like Donkey Shows, but I won't watch just to complain and manage to convince people I couldn't look away-that's not fair to the people who ENJOY them. Also, I know me doing that will come around JUST as quick./ It's a sucky game that would of been blammed to obscurity by users if it wasn't so controversial.
Opposing: His manipulation of the VICTIMS' (not the people who pretend to be victims, or people who are proxy for victims) emotions. That's about as bad as stomping on their grave, or disrupting their funeral by dancing with the deads' corpses. And what about the poor families? They can't pay for the peace of their child: imagine what you are doing, you sick fuck!/ He is willing to take his game down. Take away the 2000 he asks for, he is asking for his game to be taken away.
My opinion, it should stay...since the Opposing veiws only cater to a few rather than the rest of us users.
Basicaly, he is a prick. I couldn't care less his work is on new grounds, but I'm not going to denignify it by playing.
Also, what doubly annoys me is he is an insult to the name of my favorate Peanuts charecter :(
At 5/17/07 12:03 AM, ReignOfHell wrote: Shit, I thought I could edit, sorry about the surely response. But my vote still stands to tweaking the post for the benefit of saying that PigPens PayPal account was a joke to get people upset.
A joke purposely designed to make people upset is not any better then the action being joked about.
Well you could leave it up for freedom of speech purposes... or I would take it down due to the fact that he's trying to make profit of something that was supposed to be released for free.
I'm rally getting tired of people complaining about this game. It's obvious that it's not going anywhere. Also if you know some one that died at VT, listen up: NOBODY GIVES A SHIT!!! We don't care that one of your realitives was dumb enough to piss off Cho, so stop your bitching!
read my blog, posta commenrt, and I'll read yours!
I think it should stay, it defines newgrounds as a breeding ground for controversy...i of course mean that it shows that newgrounds can post something like hitler driving the united 93 airplane into virgina tech on the front page, and it would reamin there
im not saying that its fine what pen is doing at the moment, its ok he submitted somethnig like this but the fact hes trying to make a profit is pretty damn bad...even for something this awful
in anycase all it is shown in it are badly made sprites that get shot...it doesnt show something like a detailed first person shooter...that would be more on the line of contorversy
Well thanks to all the media coverage and talk about it, in the end, it made me want to play it, and so i did. so gg curiosity was encouraged thanks to all the publicity it got.