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At 5/28/07 10:04 PM, Dr-Worm wrote: 2. What do you think happens more often, a volcano erupting or someone driving a car?

Well, there are some volcanoes that have been erupting nonstop for years, so I believe volcano eruptions are continual and there are enough cars now in the world that at any one time a car is always being driven. Therefore, neither happens more often. There is always someone driving a car and a volcano eruptings.

Sure, volcanic eruptions and car travel happen at diifferent rates, but the impact of each event is massively different as well.

At 5/28/07 10:39 PM, Draconias wrote:

Sure, volcanic eruptions and car travel happen at diifferent rates, but the impact of each event is massively different as well.

Of each individual one. There isn't just 1 car always on the road, there's millions. Hundreds of millions, even. You can't get anywhere close to that with volcanoes. This is a pretty bad argument against man-made global warming.

actualy cars let off mainly nitrous oxide just not in as large quantities as youve seen on need for speed.
Also the earth is cooling and warming all the time anytime something happens something rises up to countereact it. Normaly.
Also in any period around the jurassic or most definitely the triassic and before it as far hotter.
People who want you to believe in global warming only show the last 2-300 years

At 5/13/07 02:42 PM, fivepoint wrote: as we all know, the earth is warming up..

but? guess what! it's NATURAL!!! (shock from small, politically delusional 7-yr olds)

About as natural as natural male enhancement...

for one...

how did the earth come out of the ice ages without humans around?
global warming

It took thosens of years.

believe it or not, the liberal media funds scientists to falsify information, then publish the information to the idiots at news crews who'll believe anything they hear

Just because they dont agree with you means they are Idiots?

for example (again...) when the earth was 3 degrees warmer (during medieval times) people did better then they do now! and yet, that time period isn't even IN the global warming charts put out by the liberal media...

HA! your bad at history, the warmer climate made scandenavia wrmer, that led to a population boost, overpopulation led many tribs leave in surch of plunder and land.

Thus babbarian invasions of the roman empire resulted.
Plus Vikings later arraived to terrorize medieval europe later.

still don't believe me? read the book Global Warming Happens Every 1500 Years Whether You Like it or Not

It has not bean 1500 years since the midieval period dumbass.
Only global warming would explain that i think...

it was written by a group of scientists that did some research on global warming WITHOUT being funded by any political group...

Scientists that dont know shit about history or time.

1500 years ago was the dark ages just after the western roman empire fell.
Also vikings were fairly intelligent being they were the first europeans to the american conitinent but instead of killing the natives they traded with them.
Also a lot of "barbarian" (which actualy means not greek since they were arrogant)
tribes were from eastern europe and beyond.

At 5/29/07 08:31 AM, Zoraxe7 wrote:

Scientists that dont know shit about history or time.

So now anyone who disagrees with YOU don't know shit.

lol lol, ironic.

Anyway, if and when you people are capable of producing accurate results. Come back. I don't want to hear these things from the same people who claimed that we'd all be doomed by global cooling.

Also in the 80s they took climate models with doubt of their effectiveness.
now scientists treat it like creationists treat bible stories.

Here are a few things I've come across recently:

From the NY Times on An Inconvient Truth:

Kevin Vranes, a climatologist at the Center for Science and Technology Policy Research at the University of Colorado, said he sensed a growing backlash against exaggeration. While praising Mr. Gore for “getting the message out,” Dr. Vranes questioned whether his presentations were “overselling our certainty about knowing the future.”

It estimated that the world’s seas in this century would rise a maximum of 23 inches — down from earlier estimates. Mr. Gore, citing no particular time frame, envisions rises of up to 20 feet and depicts parts of New York, Florida and other heavily populated areas as sinking beneath the waves, implying, at least visually, that inundation is imminent.

So too, a report last June by the National Academies seemed to contradict Mr. Gore’s portrayal of recent temperatures as the highest in the past millennium. Instead, the report said, current highs appeared unrivaled since only 1600, the tail end of a temperature rise known as the medieval warm period.
(This is another reason I question the methodology...we only have a snapshot of only a few variables in a VERY complex and dynamic system that only goes back about 400yrs. That is not a long enough data set for a system that has existed for BILLIONS of years.)

Nonsense, Dr. Easterbrook told the crowded session. He flashed a slide that showed temperature trends for the past 15,000 years. It highlighted 10 large swings, including the medieval warm period. These shifts, he said, were up to “20 times greater than the warming in the past century.”

Here is something that was on NPR today (?); an interview with Michael Griffin, Director of NASA:

I have no doubt that … a trend of global warming exists. I am not sure that it is fair to say that it is a problem we must wrestle with. To assume that it is a problem is to assume that the state of Earth's climate today is the optimal climate, the best climate that we could have or ever have had and that we need to take steps to make sure that it doesn't change. First of all, I don't think it's within the power of human beings to assure that the climate does not change, as millions of years of history have shown. And second of all, I guess I would ask which human beings — where and when — are to be accorded the privilege of deciding that this particular climate that we have right here today, right now is the best climate for all other human beings. I think that's a rather arrogant position for people to take.

Just some thoughts...

we all know who's gonna die

At 5/31/07 09:00 PM, latinosoulja wrote: we all know who's gonna die

Given a long enough time line everyone's life expectancy drops to zero...

maybe you are right, but if we are going to keep on screwing with nature then it will be our falt.

*sighs*

Hmmm.

Maybe we need to adopt a rule for the forums: don't act like a jackass. Just an idea. And besides, why was this posted in the politics section, when this has nothing to do with politics? The closest is the notion of 'liberal conspiracy' which has no grounding in fact.

At 6/7/07 07:54 PM, MoronicLegion wrote: *sighs*

Hmmm.

Maybe we need to adopt a rule for the forums: don't act like a jackass. Just an idea. And besides, why was this posted in the politics section, when this has nothing to do with politics? The closest is the notion of 'liberal conspiracy' which has no grounding in fact.

Because there is politics involved with this issue (afterall, the most famous proponent of GW right now is VP Al Gore...a politician).

I know it's Wiki...but it has a good synopsis of the politics involving this issue...

GW.org has an archive dedicated to articles on the politics of GW...

Here's a climatologist who looks at the issue and the politics around it...

Oh yeah there is the whole Kyoto Protocol issue and how the international community turned it into just another reason why the US sucks...

You have a point.

But personally, I think that global warming/climate change is a phenoma that simply has not been experienced and recorded multiple times over the course of our existence. Nature has a way of taking an incredibly long time to do things. I do not believe that humans are the one and only cause of climate change, but I do believe that humans are, however minor, contributors to global warming. Other forms of pollution should be the more immediate concern.

Sorry for the double post, all.

At 5/28/07 07:20 PM, putnamnorth wrote: can i remind all of u of something that volcanic erutions put out more Co2 then humans ever could in a 10 year span and volcanos also puts out other things like sulferdioxide and other thing which dose more harm to the atmosphere then are Co2 emitions dose

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE follow the advice of the good Dr. Worm and use periods and capital letters. And... please use real words. Erutions? Come on, now.

Besides, sulfur actually blocks sunlight. Yeah. That's because it makes up volcanic ash.

Ever heard of the 'Year without a summer?' Back in like, 1814 or something like that? That was because of a massive volcanic eruption, and global temperatures were I think only about 1 to 2 degrees Celsius below average? Volcanoes do many things, my friend. So do forest fires.

You people need to stop letting other people's beliefs affect your opinion on Global Warming.

The only reason people are denying that humans are affecting the environment and general order of the world is because they don't want to feel guilty, because they are the sort of person who uses a plethora (lol) of electricity on a daily basis, and seriously contributes to carbon emissions.

At 6/7/07 10:14 PM, MoronicLegion wrote:

A post that I 100% agree with.

Real or not real, fuck global warming. Who needs the ice caps? We'll just have more water to cool ourselves off. We'll live.

At 6/9/07 05:23 AM, PaulKaiser wrote: You people need to stop letting other people's beliefs affect your opinion on Global Warming.

Good advice...I suggest you take it.

The only reason people are denying that humans are affecting the environment and general order of the world is because they don't want to feel guilty, because they are the sort of person who uses a plethora (lol) of electricity on a daily basis, and seriously contributes to carbon emissions.

Ummm...no, not really no. You have it backwards, the loudest voices out there on GW are the ones who feel guilty about man's impact on the environment yet live in mansions that consume about 10x the electricity of an average American family's usage, motor around in SUV motorcades and fly private jets around the world to deliver speeches on the effects of man-made GW (while over-inflating things like sea level change...changing inches to feet). They feel guilty yet do nothing real to live according to the stuff they're preaching. Ah the hypocracy of the preacher class!

Meanwhile I am skeptical of GW and yet still try to lessen the impact I have on nature. (Unless there is a tree-hugging environmentalist nearby...then I try to piss them off by littering and turning on every light in my house while using a lighter filled with baby seal oil to light up a cigarette, all before slipping into my polar-bear fur coat!)

At 5/28/07 10:04 PM, Dr-Worm wrote:

At 5/28/07 07:20 PM, putnamnorth wrote: can i remind all of u of something that volcanic erutions put out more Co2 then humans ever could in a 10 year span and volcanos also puts out other things like sulferdioxide and other thing which dose more harm to the atmosphere then are Co2 emitions dose

Can I remind you of two things?

1. Your computer has a Shift key. It also has a period key. Use them.

2. What do you think happens more often, a volcano erupting or someone driving a car?

1)

That better not be an argument. [As you know, in a real debate most people dont need spellcheck, which saves them from the G-G card. [Grammar Gestapo]]

2)

I'm unsure if the Volcanoes put up more.... is completely true, but there are 2 things you should know:

- An eruption does not only put up C02 into the atmopshere, there are volcanoes that remain dormant, but have volcanic activity, and rather than erupting release a very large degree of C02 into the atmosphere at a constant rate. [Amoung another Enviormentally dangerous gasses such as Sulfur] This can best be compaired to a supersized natural chimney.

- and in the rare event that an eruption does occur, it does infact realase huge quantities of gas into the air, like compairing a grenade to a torpedo or something to that effect. [but on a much more exagerate scale]

However, volcanoe erruptions have a tendency to lower the temperature, for the reasons provided in the early theories of global cooling [polution in the air blocks the sun which lowers the temperature]

Which it does, it's not only been proven but it's been observed in our own small history of mt. St. Helen in washington i think.

Unfortunately, the world has many factors working against it at the moment, compounded with the natural cycle of the warming and cooling of the world. Our main concern is not of making the world too warm to be habitable, but instead sending us into another ice age. A lot of people find it hard to grasp this concept because naturally they link global warming with a gradual warming of the Earth. This will be true to a certain point, until it's reached it's capacity, as it were. First, majority (and i'm talking over 80%, not just over 50%) of America's energy usage is of fossil fuels. The major biproduct of this is CO2, one of the most dangerous greenhouse gasses. Along with this is the amount of oil used for cars (again, part of the energy usage), deforestation, heatsinks, etc. All of these are either adding to the CO2 levels currently present in the atmosphere, or are directly raising the global temperature. This brings about a deadly cycle. The warming of Earth slowly melts the polar ice caps, which decreases the overall salinity of the ocean. This allows the water to warm up faster (fresh water warms faster than salt water), and causes more of the ice caps to melt. If that weren't enough, after the overall temperature of the ocean has risen high enough, frozen Carbon Dioxide bubbles will melt and be released in copious amounts. This again raises the CO2 levels, which melts more ice caps, which releases more CO2 bubbles, et cetera.
One of the most overlooked side effects of GW that we're experiencing now is a shift in the weather patterns. The more global warming, the more the weather pattern of Earth will begin to change over the years. This means that the rain cycles, the heat, the cold, all will begin to appear later and later during the year. The result after only as little as thirty years? A super-winter, in which temperatures reach rock bottom. Add this with the fact that the Ocean is now much less salty, and the ocean begins to freeze over. Perhaps the world will survive that one. If we aren't sent spiraling into another Ice Age then, it will only be worse the next winter. One of the times, if not even the first, will freeze the ocean completely, effectively starting the Ice Age process.
Even if the liberal media was twisting words and information to try to get us to avert this catastrophe, more power to them. It is the most important thing we can do to save ourselves. We cannot go around treating the world like we want to just because we might not feel the effects themselves. This process wasn't started during our lifetime, but it's already in full swing. I doubt myself that we'll be able to stop the process completely, but at least we can soften the blow. No snowflake feels responsible for the avalanche, and right now, we're all nothing but a bunch of snowflakes.

1) c02 is one of the weakest of the greenhouse gases, water vapor and methane are the worst. The argument is that c02 is being sent up at a much higher rate [which is correct when you compair ancient ice to modern sky.
2) You never EVER tell people lies to make people heed a word that you consider correct, good or bad; muhhamad suffered terribly for this, and his people have been plagued ever since.

At 6/10/07 10:36 AM, SmilezRoyale wrote: 1) c02 is one of the weakest of the greenhouse gases, water vapor and methane are the worst. The argument is that c02 is being sent up at a much higher rate [which is correct when you compair ancient ice to modern sky.
2) You never EVER tell people lies to make people heed a word that you consider correct, good or bad; muhhamad suffered terribly for this, and his people have been plagued ever since.

1) CO2 is actually not only one of the worst greenhouse gasses, but scientists are able to directly measure how much global warming was present in times past by the amount of CO2 bubbles in Arctic ice.
2) Although that is true, i'd say that the ends justify the means. Even if they were telling lies, it is for the sake of humanity, possibly the only way to make people listen. These "liars" are trying to save not only our childrens lives, not only our lives, but our world. We take almost no heed that we are not the only beings on this planet. In my opinion, i would really like to see all these people suffer for the seeds they have sewed long ago, but it won't just be them that is affected. Global warming effects everyone.

The only way I can see it is either we'll be thanking the liberals for saving us from us, or we'll be wishing that we did. But try spitting in one hand and wishing in the other. See which one fills up first. I sincerely hope it is the former of the two aforementioned possibilities.

I wouldn't care so much if this didn't affect me, but the reality of this is if global warming isn't drastically slowed down, either I myself will die from the effects, or my (future) children will be forced to deal with it. Too many generations before have neglected responsibility because it didn't affect them. I don't want doom the Earth.

At 6/10/07 10:02 AM, SmilezRoyale wrote: I'm unsure if the Volcanoes put up more.... is completely true, but there are 2 things you should know:

http://www.hawaiinews.com/archives/volcano_wa tch/000440.shtml

At 6/10/07 09:48 AM, RyanKajito wrote: Real or not real, fuck global warming. Who needs the ice caps? We'll just have more water to cool ourselves off. We'll live.

Surprising that someone with over 5000 post count would say something so dumb. While I disagree with the notion that global warming is caused by something that humans did, your viewpoint should be kept in the elementary school that you're still trying to graduate from.

At 6/10/07 10:33 AM, tebayo wrote: One giant run-on post.

Dude,

I hate to be a NG grammar Nazi, but really you need to break your post into paragraphs. It just hurts my eyes to even look at it on the computer screen.

If you want to effectively make your point break it up so the readers can more readily digest what you are saying. Presentation is very important!

Global warming exsists, there has bean a tornado where I live and that hasent happened in like 40 years!

I totally believe it,I knew it was for real when the government told us it wasn't lol.Those bitches are liers.

global warming is utter crap, ask any decent global scientist and they will tell you that the earth goes through "cooling down" (also known as ice ages) and "warming up" phases and we are just in one of the natural phases of the earth. Okay maybe CO2 gases contribute slightly to it, but hint hint on the word "SLIGHTLY".
It's just what the government do to try and get more votes in their damn elections - Vote for us and we will reduce the Carbon Footprint (Idiot bonus word! Yay good for you, you've learned a slightly technical word and you now use it everywhere!!!!") of the country.
Better go vote Labour then....

I think its just a big scam to fool every on into cleaning up the world