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I did the Atkins Diet and lost quite a lot. Bah. We have teeth designed to rip meat open so that we could rip apart steaks.

At 5/30/03 10:28 AM, JudgeMeHarshX wrote: I did the Atkins Diet and lost quite a lot. Bah. We have teeth designed to rip meat open so that we could rip apart steaks.

I challenge you to go bite a cow, rip off a piece of meat and honestly say that didn't injure your jaw.

Besides, the only real teeth that are designed for ripping meat from bones are the canines.

Oh yes, I'm sorry. Bacon will make you slim. Butter will improve your cardio-vascular health and eating a celery will make you massively obese.

I see that no one is challenging my statistics about the costs/consequences of producing and consuming meat. heh.

At 5/30/03 11:02 AM, nailbomb wrote: I see that no one is challenging my statistics about the costs/consequences of producing and consuming meat. heh.

I believe that's because someone has already added a link to this discussion that leads to an article on the dangers of a vegetarian/vegan diet.

Clearly, too much of anything is not a good idea. But extreme diets aren't a good idea either.

At 5/30/03 11:02 AM, nailbomb wrote: I see that no one is challenging my statistics about the costs/consequences of producing and consuming meat. heh.

•70% of US grain production is fed to livestock
•5 million acres of rain-forest are felled every year in South and Central America alone to create cattle pasture
•Animal agriculture is a chief contributor to water pollution
•America's farm animals produce 10 times the waste produced by the human population. 35 pounds of topsoil are lost in the production of one pound of grain-fed beef
•Pounds of edible product that can be produced on an acre of prime land: Apples 20,000; Carrots 30,000; Potatoes 40,000; Tomatoes 50,000; Beef 250
•The number of gallons of water needed to produce one pound of edible product: Apples 49; Carrots 33; Potatoes 24; Tomatoes 23; Beef 2,500
•20 vegans could live off the same amount of land that it takes to feed one meat eater
•Between 19 and 22% of all threatened and endangered species are harmed by livestock grazing
•5 million acres of rain-forest are felled every year in South and Central America to create cattle pasture
•Factory farms are the biggest contributors to polluted rivers and streams in the US.

At 5/30/03 11:38 AM, Nirvana13666 wrote: stats

Yeah, but if we shouldnt eat meat because it's wasteful, what about the land we waste with our parks, roads, homes, and gardens? All of that land could be used for agriculture to feed starving people. Instead of mowing our lawns, we could have goats eat the grass, and drink goat milk in order to stop dairy cattle grazing. Think globally, act locally? Buy a goat, and grow wheat in your yard before you tell me not to eat meat.

At 5/30/03 12:23 PM, FUNKbrs wrote:

At 5/30/03 11:38 AM, Nirvana13666 wrote:

Yeah, but if we shouldnt eat meat because it's wasteful, what about the land we waste with our parks, roads, homes, and gardens? All of that land could be used for agriculture to feed starving people. Instead of mowing our lawns, we could have goats eat the grass, and drink goat milk in order to stop dairy cattle grazing. Think globally, act locally? Buy a goat, and grow wheat in your yard before you tell me not to eat meat.

Meat is great,everyone that has eaten it cant deny the pleasures of a steak.If they wouldnt produce it id probably go out and hunt myself then id have an excuse to hunt(unlike for sport).Mmmmmm....goat...ahhhh<drools>

Meat is good!!!
::Pokes funk with a fork::

Mmmmmm....goat...ahhhh<drools>

Meat is good!!!

Pokes funk with a fork::

Here's a goat fot you then...

At 5/30/03 01:00 PM, antiqkk wrote: Here's a goat fot you then...

dude, that's just some sort of weird demon monkey thing. But if you cooked in with enough barbecue sauce, I'd eat it.

i'd eat a goat, its called jamacian food!! im sure i could get it somewhere around here...

speaking of think globally act locally.. i can say i am oficially not a hypocrite when i criticize the us' farming practices, since i buy all my produce (and most of my meat) from local amish farmers who still use ancient farming methods yet manage to produce more and better quality produce than modern, mechanical farmers. so there!!! MENNONITES (and anabaptists!) ROCK!

oh yea.. and for everyone who really appreciates their food.. you should join the slow foods movement... check it out

At 5/30/03 01:46 PM, Lyddiechu wrote: MENNONITES (and anabaptists!) ROCK!

related joke, I've only gotten it to be funny once...

A college guy invents a time machine, and decides to use it one time before his professor takes it and copyrights it. He decides he'll go back to colonial america, and take the greatest invention of his time to show what the future will be like. He decides to take a TV with a battery to run it on. He goes back in time, and sees a minister riding to church. He stops the coach and says," I am a man from the future, and I've come to show you a device that show moving images that was invented." The minister says,"what, like graven images?" the student says, "yes. You push this button, and it shows one set of moving images, you push another, and you can see more. In my time there are over 100 different images you can see!" The minister just looks at the ground, shakes his head, and says,"We've got to get rid of all the buttons"

(second commandment)

At 5/30/03 12:23 PM, FUNKbrs wrote:

Buy a goat, and grow wheat in your yard before you tell me not to eat meat.

I'm not telling to stop eating meat completely, if you'd reduce your meat intake by 10 percent you'd be feeding 60 million other human beings.

Oh and, if forests continue to be cleared for cattle production we won't have anymore oxygen to breathe.

Do you really want to keep eating your bacon covered beef jerkys with barbecue sauce even though that means that future generations won't have any natural resources left?

nailbomb, read my post about buying from amish farmers. they use all their land and produce more... more meat and more veggies.. so there!

At 5/30/03 03:12 PM, nailbomb wrote:

At 5/30/03 12:23 PM, FUNKbrs wrote:

I'm not telling to stop eating meat completely, if you'd reduce your meat intake by 10 percent you'd be feeding 60 million other human beings.

Fine ill stop but will the millions of others stop, the demand will still be high,and i will still crave it why should i suffer.

Like the hard-core carnivores, we have fairly simple digestive systems well suited to the consumption of animal protein, which breaks down quickly.We are carnivores by nature.Vegeterian foods of modern agriculture are pretty nutritious. But in the wild, vegeterian options consists of leaves and stems, which are low in food value.Man is a beast(animal)dont deny.

Oh and, if forests continue to be cleared for cattle production we won't have anymore oxygen to breathe.

During the past decade, some of the concern about air quality has changed from outdoor to indoor air quality.Scientists consistently rank indoor air
pollution at or near the top of environmental health risks in the United States.
Lets just say that we ban deforestation yet the demand doesnt decrease then what are they forced to do,produce them in a PETA dissaproved enviroment.

Do you really want to keep eating your bacon covered beef jerkys with barbecue sauce even though that means that future generations won't have any natural resources left?

I dont personally like beef jerky but my dog sure loves it.So for the sake of my dog,Yes.The way society is going natural resources will not be the problem in the inevitable destruction of human life.

::Passes Barbecue Suace to FUNK::

At 5/30/03 03:12 PM, nailbomb wrote:

Oh and, if forests continue to be cleared for cattle production we won't have anymore oxygen to breathe.

This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Oxygen mainly comes from oceanic plankton, not the rainforest. 3/4 of the world surface is water, are you saying that when the world's climate was warmer and the polar icecaps smaller there was not enough oxygen to breathe? I can understand "save the ocean", but fuck the rainforest. Also, herbivorous meat animals eat things that humans can't digest, thus making food from inedible substances like hay and wheat chaff. Also, they can graze without the use of pesticides and fertilizers on the soil. I have also heard a report that it is now possible to make crude oil directly from manure. Long live cars, long live meat!

Damn hippies.

This reminds me of an old Maddox essay that holds water against the veggie debate.

http://maddox.xmission.com/grill.html

At 5/30/03 06:17 PM, JudgeMeHarshX wrote: This reminds me of an old Maddox essay that holds water against the veggie debate.

http://maddox.xmission.com/grill.html

I heard this famous quote once:

"Maddox R0x0rs"

Don't know who it was from for the life of me.

At 5/30/03 05:46 PM, FUNKbrs wrote: This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Oxygen mainly comes from oceanic plankton, not the rainforest. 3/4 of the world surface is water, are you saying that when the world's climate was warmer and the polar icecaps smaller there was not enough oxygen to breathe? I can understand "save the ocean", but fuck the rainforest. Also, herbivorous meat animals eat things that humans can't digest, thus making food from inedible substances like hay and wheat chaff. Also, they can graze without the use of pesticides and fertilizers on the soil. I have also heard a report that it is now possible to make crude oil directly from manure. Long live cars, long live meat!

Damn hippies.

Did you ever hear of a process called photosynthesis? go look it up you damn [insert insult here].

Actually, "cow waste" [i.e. farts and shit] are the leading polutants of air and water in rural areas. Methane for the air and ammonia for the water.
Fun Fact: George W. Bush postponed a law that would lower "acceptable" levels of ammonia in drinking water.

Yes, long live cars, long live global warming, long live the destruction of antartica, long live skin cancer, long lice smog which affects mostly small children and the elderly.

At 5/30/03 11:12 PM, nailbomb wrote:
Yes, long live cars, long live global warming, long live the destruction of antartica, long live skin cancer, long lice smog which affects mostly small children and the elderly.

Long live government-supported, politically correct lies and bad science that has led you and many other to believe these things!

LOL OMG ITS LIEK SO INHUMAN HWO TEHY KILL TEH COWZ! ITS LIEK SOOOOO EVIIL!

(Note, The above sentence is sarcasam)
Now, Hippies, Listen up. I am only typing this once.
Do you know how cows are killed? No, its not an axe to the head, nor a pan, nor a shovel, nor a bullet.
The cow steps into a small "cell" with some hay on the floor. The cow proceeds to eat the hay.
A spike comes out of the wall at about 3500 FPS.
The cow gets hit in the brain and instantly dies.
End.
The cow feels NO pain nor discomfort during this process.

Some slaughterhouses also employ electrocution to kill livestock. The same technique that was once used to execute human prisioners. Again, the cow feels very little pain with this method.

Oh, and about the morality of eating meat:
Humans aren't very strong, fast or tough. But we have ONE thing that puts above everything else. Brains.
We are able to use our brains to devise and wield tools that make wimpy little humans the mightiest animal on earth.
THe "we wern't made to kill animals" theroy is a lie.
Cavemen made spears to kill animals. Midevial man made boats and bows to kill animals. Modern man made rifles to kill animals.
I am sorry, but we were given extraordinary brain power so we could CATCH AND KILL ANIMALS.

Intersting note for those of you who haven't read Ishmael. We already produce enough food to feed all the hungry on the planet, the problem isn't production but distribution not eating meat won't prevent hunger it won't have any affect on hunger at all.

Also a good book to read for most enviromentalists is "The Skeptical Ecologist" by Bjorn Lomborg. It raises some very interesting points about things like global warming such as the fact that it hasnever been proven to be any more than a theory.

Ok since I care about the survival of other being that makes me a dirty hippy. This isn't about morality or ethics or anything. It's about the consequences of producing and consuming meat on an industrial level.

Reduce your yearly intake of meat by 10% and you'll be directly saving 60 million human lives. 10% isn't a lot it's roughly 11 chicken wings instead of 12.

Wait a minute...

What do agricultural companies do with the grain they haven't fed to cows?

They throw it into the garbage you say?

....

NEVERMIND THEN. Enjoy your veal and lambchops.

P.S. I eat meat too but I keep it to a minimum. It's the natural primate diet

At 5/30/03 05:46 PM, FUNKbrs wrote: This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Oxygen mainly comes from oceanic plankton, not the rainforest.

The sam plankton which has been gradually dissapearing thanks to off-shore drilling?

At 5/31/03 12:04 PM, nailbomb wrote: Reduce your yearly intake of meat by 10% and you'll be directly saving 60 million human lives. 10% isn't a lot it's roughly 11 chicken wings instead of 12.

Wait a minute...

What do agricultural companies do with the grain they haven't fed to cows?

They throw it into the garbage you say?

acutally, the government pays farmers to NOT GROW GRAIN to keep the prices artificially high in the US. Thank you ingnorant loser, for assuming I had no idea how the grain industry works.

At 5/31/03 12:06 PM, nailbomb wrote:

At 5/30/03 05:46 PM, FUNKbrs wrote: This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Oxygen mainly comes from oceanic plankton, not the rainforest.

The sam plankton which has been gradually dissapearing thanks to off-shore drilling?

what the hell does that have to do with eating meat? And besides, I earlier mentioned the development of a new technology that turns manure into crude oil. You tire me.

I now officially declare that I stop eating both meat and vegetables so after I die I can officially go to heaven for not killing any animals and being a good person with no guilt in his heart. And hey, if I cut down 10% of my diet I can feed 60 million people, so if my diet goes down by 100% I could feed over 600 million people worldwide. I will be called a saint and the brother of Jesus and my lovely face will be painted in all the churches of the world with a big fat halo over it. They will also create a new testament to the Bible about my life, and thus having this new version of the holy book, they will sell 5 more billion copies of it, thus making a lot of cash and increasing their consumption demands for meat by 50%. Which brings us to the starting point of 60+ million people starving.
Now I ask you, I have one life to live and God knows how long it will be until a war, global warming or aliens from space destroy our world, why should I give up on one of the few pleasures in this world of eating nice, tasty steaks and bacon?

At 5/31/03 12:04 PM, nailbomb wrote: Ok since I care about the survival of other being that makes me a dirty hippy. This isn't about morality or ethics or anything. It's about the consequences of producing and consuming meat on an industrial level.

I dont think your a hippy,i like the term hippy.The hippy message is beautiful,But you are no hippy.Hippies would use love and unity to hug the cows to death.

Reduce your yearly intake of meat by 10% and you'll be directly saving 60 million human lives. 10% isn't a lot it's roughly 11 chicken wings instead of 12.

The average American eats thirty pounds of cheese per year. It takes ten pounds of milk to make one pound of cheese. The average American eats 25 pounds of ice cream per year, and the conversion factor for America's favorite frozen dessert is 12:1. Factor in just those two items, and one needs six hundred pounds of milk to supply each American's cheese and ice cream "needs." The average American consumes the equivalent of 29.2 ounces each day of milk and dairy products which adds up to a total yearly consumption of 666 pounds per American.
The average American, through milk consumption, will be responsible for the life and death of two+ dairy cows and one baby bull.-VOY.COM

Do you use diary products?

What do agricultural companies do with the grain they haven't fed to cows?

Reality, three-fourths of the corn, barley, sorghum, and oats imported by poor countries goes to feed animals.They eat better than we do.

They throw it into the garbage you say?

Look for alternate means that may be available such as screenings from grain, canola, lentils, peas, forage seed, etc.

what happens if we produce more food? We get more people! It's a vicious circle... which can be stopped by not increasing the amount of food available. I agree that it can be damaging, but in some ways, it's probably a good thing if you think about it hey im all for curing world hunger...im just playing DAG

<quickly>viva le DAG!!

NEVERMIND THEN. Enjoy your veal and lambchops.

Yes i will
::Bites lampchop::mmmm....lambchops...play along.

P.S. I eat meat too but I keep it to a minimum. It's the natural primate diet

Hypocrite!!!

for my work experience i worked at an abbatoir, and quite frankly, wen animals are killed,it is not humainly it is complete and utter toutiour <- soz bout spelling,

and what is the deal with muslims, they can only eat meat that has been killed INHUMAINLY, wot kind of "god" would set that as a rule??