UK united or divided?

[Jon-86]

Theirs a good chance the SNP will win the scottish election.
And after that they plan to seporate scontland from the union.

Which im for, a support that move. I would vote for the independance party but the SNP have got a better chance.

Anyway my question is if we do seporate from the union, what then?
How dose it effect us?
What will we be?
A republic, a state nation or something else?

How dose it effect the army and other things like that?

If anyone here lifes in scotland to you think if we do seporare it will put an end to sectarian violence or make it worse?

Thanks for all info proivided.

[Cybex]

I'm not to brushed up on my scotting politics, what are the main pro's and cons of splitting away. The extent of my knowledge at the moment is that the union jack will have to be changed.

[zzzzd]

I'm English and I hope the UK breaks up, 400 years is long enough in my opinion. Hopefully Northern Ireland can unite with Ireland and Scotland do whatever they like. I do worry what will happen to wales, there probably to small to cope on their own and allthough I would like England totally independent If Wales is too small then England has the responisiblity to stay united with them.

Personaly I would also like to see the back of the royal family as well. But thats not going to happen.

[Cybex]

At 4/29/07 05:23 PM, zzzzd wrote: Personaly I would also like to see the back of the royal family as well. But thats not going to happen.

Even with all the money they rake in from tourism? I agree, the idea of having some super rich family that does nothing just for the sake of it is upsetting, but they do do a lot of good for us and are a big part of what England is. I think perhaps some of their wealth could be re-distributed however.

[Jon-86]

I dont really know the pros and cons thats why im asking here.
Supposedly the union was formed for economic reasons.
But that was hundreds of years ago.

The world has developed and their are lots of new industries that could expand here, take the gamse industry in scotland a few of the worlds bes known developers are basde in edinburgh.

If we do split then it would effect tax, I dont know how exactly but currently our taxes are whats required by the UK.

[zzzzd]

At 4/29/07 05:19 PM, Cybex wrote: I'm not to brushed up on my scotting politics, what are the main pro's and cons of splitting away. The extent of my knowledge at the moment is that the union jack will have to be changed.

The main pro is that People are getting sick of being British, The English are sick of being stuck with the scottish and vice-versa. And The English just want to be English, Scottish just want to be Scottish. etc

[Cybex]

At 4/29/07 05:27 PM, Jon-86 wrote: I dont really know the pros and cons thats why im asking here.
Supposedly the union was formed for economic reasons.
But that was hundreds of years ago.

That doesnt mean the economic reasons aren't still relevant. What are your reasons for wanting to leave us if you don't know the general pros and cons?

If we do split then it would effect tax, I dont know how exactly but currently our taxes are whats required by the UK.

Thats because taxes are worked out based on the UK, not just England.

At 4/29/07 05:29 PM, zzzzd wrote: The main pro is that People are getting sick of being British, The English are sick of being stuck with the scottish and vice-versa. And The English just want to be English, Scottish just want to be Scottish. etc

Doesn't sound like a worthwhile reason to break apart to me.

[Jon-86]

Yeah it was for economic reasons at 'that' time, it was believed if we didnt join in a union with england trade links would die. However that might not have happened. So it was really to preserve trade links.

And now global trade is not beyond most countries.

At 4/29/07 05:36 PM, Cybex wrote: Thats because taxes are worked out based on the UK, not just England.

I know that and if the population of Scotland is only 5-million which equals the population of london (just one city in england) then it would be a good thing for most scottish people to be seporate?

And the argument about hating being british is a valid one to some people.
I wouild say more so for english poeple.
They cant waive a St Georges cross in some places (inside england) without being called racists, how crap is that.

[Cybex]

At 4/29/07 05:50 PM, Jon-86 wrote: They cant waive a St Georges cross in some places (inside england) without being called racists, how crap is that.

We can't wave an English flag in England wthout being called racist. It's not just crap for the scotts.

[Jon-86]

At 4/29/07 05:52 PM, Cybex wrote: We can't wave an English flag in England wthout being called racist. It's not just crap for the scotts.

I dont really know what you mean?

I did say english people cant wave english flags inside england without being called racists.
Their isnt really much fuss if I have a scotland flag in my window...?

[Memorize]

They could all join together under one name. Or remain as they are and be called the United Divided.

[LordJaric]

My opinion is if there is a large amount of people in a certain area that want independence than it should be given to them.

[emmytee]

At 4/29/07 06:03 PM, Memorize wrote: They could all join together under one name. Or remain as they are and be called the United Divided.

Ohh, I just love the sig. A man with a white flag and a baby, with good ol' captain America gunning them down.... Pretty accurate I think

[emmytee]

Scotland will be poor and shitty if we break away. The SNP have crap policies apart from independence (a crap policy in itself). We elect them, they seperate us and they ruin the fucking country.

[uhnoesanoob]

At 4/29/07 08:42 PM, emmytee wrote:

At 4/29/07 06:03 PM, Memorize wrote: They could all join together under one name. Or remain as they are and be called the United Divided.

Ohh, I just love the sig. A man with a white flag and a baby, with good ol' captain America gunning them down.... Pretty accurate I think

It was originally cellardoor and my sig....but people made it into a joke>:[

[cellardoor6]

At 4/29/07 05:23 PM, zzzzd wrote: I'm English and I hope the UK breaks up, 400 years is long enough in my opinion. Hopefully Northern Ireland can unite with Ireland and Scotland do whatever they like. I do worry what will happen to wales, there probably to small to cope on their own and allthough I would like England totally independent If Wales is too small then England has the responisiblity to stay united with them.

You do realize that it's only possibly a political split, it's not going to make much difference. Trade and economic integration isn't going to change. The Welsh aren't going to have to worry about "coping" even though the they aren't going to split from the UK anyhow, it's just Scotland.

[Memorize]

At 4/29/07 08:42 PM, emmytee wrote:

Ohh, I just love the sig. A man with a white flag and a baby, with good ol' captain America gunning them down.... Pretty accurate I think

Don't be pissed just because you're a terror supporting scumbag.

[Brick-top]

I don't really care either way I just hope they don't close the fucking border. I have family and enemies I have to regularly visit.

[Jon-86]

At 4/29/07 08:44 PM, emmytee wrote: Scotland will be poor and shitty if we break away. The SNP have crap policies apart from independence (a crap policy in itself). We elect them, they seperate us and they ruin the fucking country.

Explain how we will be poor and shitty?

The only thing I think that will really change is the government.
Right now The scottish government dosnt have total control theyt still have to go by west-minister on some things.
Where as if we did seporate that wouldnt be the case.

[Boltrig]

At 4/29/07 08:44 PM, emmytee wrote: Scotland will be poor and shitty if we break away. The SNP have crap policies apart from independence (a crap policy in itself). We elect them, they seperate us and they ruin the fucking country.

An extra 2 police officers for each station was a good policy. If another party could promise somthing like that Id vote for them.

The SNP are catering to all the loudmouths who complain about being attatched to the English, because they're still pissed off about Bannockburn and the wars of independance.

Lowest common denomenator

[emmytee]

At 4/30/07 06:54 AM, Boltrig wrote: The SNP are catering to all the loudmouths who complain about being attatched to the English, because they're still pissed off about Bannockburn and the wars of independance.

Lowest common denomenator

Exactly. And being of pretty recent english descent it makes me uneasy having the SNP in power. The SNP never talk about their other policies anyway. If people wan independence I say they vote SSP. That bad lol.

[zzzzd]

At 4/29/07 09:21 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

You do realize that it's only possibly a political split, it's not going to make much difference. Trade and economic integration isn't going to change. The Welsh aren't going to have to worry about "coping" even though the they aren't going to split from the UK anyhow, it's just Scotland.

If Scotland get there indepedence, More than likely English, Welsh and Northern Irish will want to split. A recent poll shows more English actually want to break away from scotland
than scottish want to break away from England. It's just England doesnt have it's own parliment like Scotland at the moment.

As for Wales, The UK puts alot more money to the Welsh Economy than Wales gives out.
The UK is a trade union a 400 year old Trade union, splitting it would cause disturbance. Where as Scotland is big enough and rich enough to survive on it's own, Wales probably isn't.

Although it has a much better chance with the EU.

[Boltrig]

At 4/30/07 08:17 AM, emmytee wrote: If people wan independence I say they vote SSP. That bad lol.

Theres no way in hell I will be voting for the SSP.

For the million against the millionaires? Piss off! IF you confiscate wealth from people who have amassed their ofn money, then what incentive is there to get ahead in life.

Break down the police boards into smaller regions? Hello bureaucracy!

Free heroin for junkies. Im an alcoholic. Honest. I want free beers now.

A maximum hospital capacity of 85% to cope with surges. Meanwhile people are turned down "just in case we get a surge"

A ban on consultants working for the private sector. This is sounding more and more opressive. Sure NHS trained staff should be forced to do a period in public service, but then its up to them where they want to go.

The phasing out of all private healthcare. So Im not allowed to want better treatment for my family, and pay for that peace of mind?

Without going through the rest of the points, suffice to say I really dont agree with the SSP. Nor the greens for that matter, or most of the SNP, BNP, Labour and conservatives. Or the lib dems.

I feel a spoilt ballot coming on

I've always maintained we need a "none of the above" box to tick

[Brick-top]

I prefer the being united. The scottish will hate the queen either way. But if it does get it's independance they will have an excuse lol.

[emmytee]

I guess a positive side is that we would be rid of Blair and new Labour, as no-one likes them up here anyway, so we could stop sucking up to America and go make friends wit the EU like we should have ages ago.

[Boltrig]

At 4/30/07 08:35 AM, Brick-top wrote: I prefer the being united. The scottish will hate the queen either way. But if it does get it's independance they will have an excuse lol.

The Scottish you mean. Scotland. Proper noun. Capitalised. Thats at least the second time Ive seen it on this thread.

And anyway, back to your point. The Scottish have always had reason to dislike the royals. All they do is bumble about the place sponging. And since the main argument is that they bring in tourism money, Scotland still has reason to dislike. All the tourist cash goes to England and London specifically.

[Brick-top]

At 4/30/07 10:22 AM, Boltrig wrote:

At 4/30/07 08:35 AM, Brick-top wrote: I prefer the being united. The scottish will hate the queen either way. But if it does get it's independance they will have an excuse lol.

The Scottish you mean. Scotland. Proper noun. Capitalised. Thats at least the second time Ive seen it on this thread.

Hey, guess what?

I-DONT-CARE

And anyway, back to your point. The Scottish have always had reason to dislike the royals. All they do is bumble about the place sponging. And since the main argument is that they bring in tourism money, Scotland still has reason to dislike. All the tourist cash goes to England and London specifically.

You do realise that the UK has other tourist attractions other than the royals? Just go to Endinburgh castle, it has more forigners than the surrounding population.

[Boltrig]

At 4/30/07 10:40 AM, Brick-top wrote:

You do realise that the UK has other tourist attractions other than the royals? Just go to Endinburgh castle, it has more forigners than the surrounding population.

Thats reverse logic. I wasnt complaining about tourists. I was saying that Scotland never sees the money from the tourists the royals attract. Therefore from our perspective, the royals are outmoded and pointless.

Yes there are other tourist attractions, but what does that have to do with Scots hating the Queen.

[Brick-top]

At 4/30/07 10:46 AM, Boltrig wrote:

At 4/30/07 10:40 AM, Brick-top wrote:

You do realise that the UK has other tourist attractions other than the royals? Just go to Endinburgh castle, it has more forigners than the surrounding population.

Thats reverse logic.

Yes it isn't.

Yes there are other tourist attractions, but what does that have to do with Scots hating the Queen.

And the Royal estates in Scotland get completly ignored?

[Tri-Nitro-Toluene]

So the SNP will win the election...whoop de freaking doo.

They'll hold a referendum where it's likely that people will vote in favour of independence? Good for them.

But, there's one giant stumbling block in the way of all of this. It's called the British Government.

If the SNP make their claim to independence before Blair resigns, then nothing is going to happen as it will mean the only real potential leader for Labour ( Gordon Brown) can't become PM, thus screwing labour over, due to the fact that Brown's constituency is in Scotland, thereby making him unable to stand as a member of the British Parliament as his constituency will no longer be a part of Britain.

If the SNP don't get their act together till Brown takes over, then they aren't going to gain independence as Brown won't screw himself over by removing his only real base of support, and also his seat that allows him to stand in parliament.

Then after that, if the Tories get I power then Scotland's chances are screwed as the Tories are very much in favour of the UK.

Scottish Independence? Not gonna happen any time soon.

Even if it does it'll be short lived as they'll just join the EU and then eventually get sucked up into what will become the Federal States of Europe, thus leaving their independence.