Hunting

[Touchwood-X]

just interested to see how many fors and againsts for hunting there are on the forum- anyway discuss

[Schmut]

At 4/23/07 01:28 PM, LazyDrunk wrote: I don't believe you.

I believe him. The young nowadays are, for a large part, just as stupid as he's making himself out to be. But we're not here to debate his age or intelligence. We're here to talk about hunting.
Personally, I disagree with hunting for sport. As human beings, we've gotten to the point where we no longer need to hunt for our food as it is grown, killed and delivered to us, often ready to eat. So, I don't see hunting for food as an excuse for people who live in civilised society. Hunting for fur is just plain wrong, in my opinion, as we have ways of getting clothing without harming animals. As for hunting for sport, which is what I intended to be writing about before I allowed myself to become sidetracked, I believe killing animals for fun should be seen as equally twisted to killing our fellow human-beings. Despite being of higher intelligence than our animal brethren, we truely are no better than them. Every animal comes from a family, just as we do. Animals have been shwon to protect one another, displaying what we would call love, affection and respect. A creature capable of these things should not be harmed.
The only reason I see for hunting animals is for protection. We need to look after our own, just as they would. For this reason, unless we have exhausted all other means of protection, animals should not be hunted.
If animals can be controlled in a humane way without killing or injuring them, then this option should be used first.

[Leeloo-Minai]

I hunt, more for big game and pests than birds though. I hated chipmunks and squirrels, they're always burrowing where they shouldn't and eating the damn bird's food.

Brick-top, you're a tool.

[Touchwood-X]

i was actually refering more to the reasons people hunt, i honestly dont get how people can have the capacity to willingly kill other living breathing creatures - wheres the fun in it? and i was also interested to see the religious aspect- i was talking to someone earlier today who claimed to be a christian, but who inadvertantly mentioned that he hunted- surely that goes against some of the teachings of christianity?

[Brick-top]

At 4/23/07 01:57 PM, Touchwood-X wrote: i was actually refering more to the reasons people hunt, i honestly dont get how people can have the capacity to willingly kill other living breathing creatures - wheres the fun in it?

Do you feel better about slaughtering them in a warehouse and having them sliced up and packaged nicely and brought into supermarkets?

[Leeloo-Minai]

At 4/23/07 01:57 PM, Touchwood-X wrote: i was actually refering more to the reasons people hunt, i honestly dont get how people can have the capacity to willingly kill other living breathing creatures - wheres the fun in it?

It's not the act of killing that is fun. To some it most definitely is, but nobody in my camp hunts for the kill.

I enjoy stalking, tracking deer and leaving as little human imprint as possible. I've seen fishers, wolves, bear, badger, lynx and beaver in the same weekend while we hunt. Observing nature unhindered by our concrete jungle is beauty incarnate, in my humble opinion . . . psychoevaluate that however you may, but that's my main appeal to hunting.

The second isn't as important, but I find value in it; butchering your own food. I view the harvesting of an animal akin to the careful care of raising a garden.

and i was also interested to see the religious aspect- i was talking to someone earlier today who claimed to be a christian, but who inadvertantly mentioned that he hunted- surely that goes against some of the teachings of christianity?

Not that I'm aware of. I've never heard that before now,

[Schmut]

At 4/23/07 02:03 PM, Brick-top wrote: Do you feel better about slaughtering them in a warehouse and having them sliced up and packaged nicely and brought into supermarkets?

Were slaughter-houses not abolished in favour of killing animals humanely?

Anyway, the religious aspect: I would think that a religious person who hunted would argue that it is their god-given-right. Afterall, there were Adam and Eve in the beginning. They both had canines in their mouths; a tooth specifically for tearing into meat. Also, they would have had to hunt for their own food as the supermarket did not yet exist. So, I think that explains why a christian could see it as okay to hunt.

[Brick-top]

At 4/23/07 02:11 PM, Schmut wrote:

At 4/23/07 02:03 PM, Brick-top wrote: Do you feel better about slaughtering them in a warehouse and having them sliced up and packaged nicely and brought into supermarkets?

Were slaughter-houses not abolished in favour of killing animals humanely?

Oh wait a minute. So shooting them is less humane than killing them on an assemly line? At least the hunted animal has a proper life instead of being born, growing up and on the special day it is either used to breed or gets sliced and goes to Mcdonalds.

[Leeloo-Minai]

At 4/23/07 02:17 PM, Brick-top wrote:

At 4/23/07 02:11 PM, Schmut wrote:

At 4/23/07 02:03 PM, Brick-top wrote: Do you feel better about slaughtering them in a warehouse and having them sliced up and packaged nicely and brought into supermarkets?

Were slaughter-houses not abolished in favour of killing animals humanely?

Oh wait a minute. So shooting them is less humane than killing them on an assemly line?

It can be, if the circumstances are right.

At least the hunted animal has a proper life instead of being born, growing up and on the special day it is either used to breed or gets sliced and goes to Mcdonalds.

What is proper life? Ants keep certain beetles around so they can suck their sweet excrete. These bugs herd another species as livestock.

Once you dominate an entire species, they are yours. You wouldn't see any free range cows if the wolf population wasn't "inhumanely" hunted to near-exinction.

Nature is wild. Because we tamed a few doesn't mean they weren't wild at one point, too.

[Schmut]

At 4/23/07 02:08 PM, Leeloo-Minai wrote: I enjoy stalking, tracking deer and leaving as little human imprint as possible. I've seen fishers, wolves, bear, badger, lynx and beaver in the same weekend while we hunt. Observing nature unhindered by our concrete jungle is beauty incarnate, in my humble opinion . . . psychoevaluate that however you may, but that's my main appeal to hunting.

The second isn't as important, but I find value in it; butchering your own food. I view the harvesting of an animal akin to the careful care of raising a garden.

,
The way that you put it makes it sound fantastic. I would join a hunt just to view that world of which you speak but I would not participate in the hunt itself. However, I respect your reasons for hunting.
I would love to live in an isolated part of the world; just nature, myself and good company. But my unwillingness to kill an animal would lead me to become a vegetarian which I don't think I could do. I love meat.

[Brick-top]

At 4/23/07 02:23 PM, Leeloo-Minai wrote: Nature is wild. Because we tamed a few doesn't mean they weren't wild at one point, too.

"Hello little deer, would you rather live on a 13 acre farm or the entire countryside?"
"Ohh..Thats a tuffy. I'll have to think about that one"

[Demosthenez]

At 4/23/07 02:11 PM, Schmut wrote: Were slaughter-houses not abolished in favour of killing animals humanely?

Think abot that. HUMANELY. This is not something you would ever find in nature, there is no concept of humanity. Shit, even the name should raise sime big alarm bells. HUMANely? Why are we going to apply artifical, human constructed concepts to animals? And how would you kill something "humanely?" Drugs? Then you would have the same crowed that bitches about irradiated food and genetically engineered food bitching about drugs in our food. What can I say, people are fucking stupid. While rich white people in the West bitch about genetically engineered food people in Africa die because of the power of these retards in the West. Pathetic.

But to answer your question; because the system we have now works good and its probably the cheapest way to do it.

At 4/23/07 02:17 PM, Brick-top wrote: gets sliced and goes to Mcdonalds.

Yum.

[XChainsawX]

At 4/23/07 02:11 PM, Schmut wrote:

At 4/23/07 02:03 PM, Brick-top wrote: Do you feel better about slaughtering them in a warehouse and having them sliced up and packaged nicely and brought into supermarkets?

Were slaughter-houses not abolished in favour of killing animals humanely?

killing animal in a slaughter house, when they have no way to escape or protect themselves
is worse than hunting them.
animals have most feelings humans do, including a sense of dignity.
would you rather be slaughtered in a small room with many other victims, and then become the launch or some random person,
or die while fighting for your life (or at least having a chance to escape)

[troubles1]

I enjoy hunting allot, I have been going since I was six with my father, he is a true sports man ,who cares about nature and animals, there was winters that was very bad and we used to go out into the woods we hunted and leave lots of food around.

hunting is good for the environment here were I live because of man moving in on the animals territory we have driven off the predator's , like the wolf ,and Bear, so our deer population is out of control , witch is very bad for the deer , and other animals , so us hunting them is a very good thing , it reduces sickness and environmental damages , it ensures the other animals get enough to eat.
So yea if done properly hunting is a great sport , and no person can give a credible reason to stop , other than there personal choice to not hunt.

[Touchwood-X]

ok but that aurgument only holds up where there is population trouble, what about all these people that go abroad and hunt elephants? or breeding animals specifically to be hunted? for that matter why cant people be content to simply stalk the animals, why does it always have to end in a kill?

[Schmut]

At 4/23/07 02:32 PM, XChainsawX wrote:

At 4/23/07 02:11 PM, Schmut wrote: Were slaughter-houses not abolished in favour of killing animals humanely?

killing animal in a slaughter house, when they have no way to escape or protect themselves
is worse than hunting them.

Agreed. I never said they were a good thing. I only stated that I thought they were no longer in operation. However, we grow animals with the purpose of becoming food. Us humans don't know our goal in life but we give those animal's live's a meaning. Yes, that is a very twisted way of thinking, I know. Sometimes I just argue for the sake of arguing.

animals have most feelings humans do, including a sense of dignity.

I stated that in my first post but didn't mention dignity.

would you rather be slaughtered in a small room with many other victims, and then become the launch or some random person,
or die while fighting for your life (or at least having a chance to escape)

I would much rather die the second way and become the lunch of the person who killed me; that person would deserve it for making the kill. However, if we're going to talk about dignity what's dignified about being shot. I'd much rather have the hunter attack me with a knife and get right up close to me before making the kill. Sitting in the bushes with a gun seems like cheating, to me. I'm not fond of guns. It barely gives me a chance to escape.

[Leeloo-Minai]

At 4/23/07 02:41 PM, Touchwood-X wrote: ok but that aurgument only holds up where there is population trouble, what about all these people that go abroad and hunt elephants?

It's the sovereign nations choice to open hunting up to foreigners. We don't the same, on a limited basis.

or breeding animals specifically to be hunted? for that matter why cant people be content to simply stalk the animals, why does it always have to end in a kill?

It doesn't always end in a kill, or it shouldn't.

Many hunters will only take a certain type of animal, a big buck for the trophy hunters or a mother doe with fawns if the deer population is too high in the area.

Of the many, many deer I've seen while hunting, over 3/4 I've let go. Sometimes it was because I couldn't feel confident enough that the shot would kill it (one shot, one kill), sometimes it was getting too late in the evening, sometimes I wanted to wait for the big guck following the doe. It really is different every time, but each sighting is rare enough in itself to be appreciated.

I've even brought a camera out for the wildlife I'm not hunting.

As a side note, having a gun with in the wild doubles as a safety device, too. In Northern Cali trekking through the mountains, bear and cougar are common. Both have been known to attack and kill men, women and children alike.

[Brick-top]

Hunting:
The animal is born in the wild. It lives its life and when it is an adult hunters can kill it as long as the species procreates and the numbers don’t drop. You shoot it, you take it home, you gut and skin it, you eat it. End of.

Modernising:
Animal is born in a farm or animal storage area, having a secluded life until it a certain time when it is used to procreate. Or it will be killed, gutted and skinned by machines and butchers, vaccinated and tested or certain illnesses, packaged, and sent to supermarkets, restaurants etc.

Now tell me, what is better for the person and animal?

Honestly people will have a slab of venison for dinner but when they hear about someone acually shooting the animals the whole fucking world comes to an end.

[Touchwood-X]

now this whole trophy hunting thing pisses me off- posing with a dead animal, and saying look how good i am- i can shoot things, like the animals stand any chance against a gun

[LOLZILLA]

hunting is good. especially MILF hunting.

[Brick-top]

At 4/23/07 02:55 PM, Touchwood-X wrote: now this whole trophy hunting thing pisses me off- posing with a dead animal, and saying look how good i am- i can shoot things, like the animals stand any chance against a gun

Yeah that pisses me off too.

[Leeloo-Minai]

At 4/23/07 02:47 PM, Schmut wrote: However, we grow animals with the purpose of becoming food. Us humans don't know our goal in life but we give those animal's live's a meaning. Yes, that is a very twisted way of thinking, I know. Sometimes I just argue for the sake of arguing.

It's a decent point, if a vague one.

But humans aren't the only ones raising animals for their exclusive use.

I'd much rather have the hunter attack me with a knife and get right up close to me before making the kill.

My brother had to track an ass-shot deer through the swamps three seasons ago. It took 4 hours to finally catch up to the small doe, tracing the blood through the dark . . . when we finally heard it about 30 yards up ahead, rustling through the brush, my bro ran toward the sound, leapt onto its back, and plunged his knife to the hilt into the deer's neck 3 times before finally going ear-to-ear and loosing a howl I'll never forget.

It was glorious, the way he torqued the deer's thin neck up and finished it.

Sitting in the bushes with a gun seems like cheating, to me. I'm not fond of guns. It barely gives me a chance to escape.

Exactly, when they're escaping the shot becomes less accurate. Most hunters won't even attempt a moving shot, because the odds of just wounding the animal are higher. Not as important, but hunters generally give eachother shit if they fire their weapon without a kill.

[Touchwood-X]

my bro ran toward the sound, leapt onto its back, and plunged his knife to the hilt into the deer's neck 3 times before finally going ear-to-ear and loosing a howl I'll never forget.

It was glorious, the way he torqued the deer's thin neck up and finished it.

scuse me but 'glorious'? when does it become fun to watch things being knived to death

[Leeloo-Minai]

At 4/23/07 03:01 PM, Touchwood-X wrote: my bro ran toward the sound, leapt onto its back, and plunged his knife to the hilt into the deer's neck 3 times before finally going ear-to-ear and loosing a howl I'll never forget.

It was glorious, the way he torqued the deer's thin neck up and finished it.

scuse me but 'glorious'? when does it become fun to watch things being knived to death

When you know it's been running around wounded for 4 hours because you've been tracking it?

I need to find new forums, I think.

[HighlyIllogical]

At 4/23/07 02:49 PM, Leeloo-Minai wrote:

As a side note, having a gun with in the wild doubles as a safety device, too. In Northern Cali trekking through the mountains, bear and cougar are common. Both have been known to attack and kill men, women and children alike.

That's not a logical reason to have a proper firearm. Hell, if you had an axe or a road flare, you'd probably be better off.

[Leeloo-Minai]

At 4/23/07 03:09 PM, HighlyIllogical wrote: That's not a logical reason to have a proper firearm. Hell, if you had an axe or a road flare, you'd probably be better off.

No.

[fli]

It should be purely for food... to to thin out populations. Or to comeback invasive animals such as wild pigs. (Now that's something we ought to kill till they're all dead.)

And it's not truly a "sport"--

It's like horse back riding... it's not a true sport.
The horse needs to be riding you for it to be a sport.

Oh--
To shoot tiny little animals such as morning doves... talk about a sin.
Those little fellows sing their heart out and don't bother anyone. So why would anyone hunt such beautiful animals?

[SolInvictus]

At 4/23/07 07:56 PM, fli wrote: Oh--
To shoot tiny little animals such as morning doves... talk about a sin.
Those little fellows sing their heart out and don't bother anyone. So why would anyone hunt such beautiful animals?

my friend found what i have christened the "Neo bird". he took a couple shots at this tiny bird that kept dodging them but never flying away. it was spared on account of its awesomeness.

A man should have the right to kill an inferior creature if he so chooses in my opinion.

[HighlyIllogical]

At 4/23/07 07:56 PM, fli wrote: It should be purely for food... to to thin out populations. Or to comeback invasive animals such as wild pigs. (Now that's something we ought to kill till they're all dead.)

Agreed. Hunting for a photo with a trophy is about as dumb as shark fishing.

And it's not truly a "sport"

True. Anyone with half a brain and a gun (and the physical capability to fire it) is more than a match for essentially any land animal.

To shoot tiny little animals such as morning doves... talk about a sin...So why would anyone hunt such beautiful animals?

Because the hunters are callous?