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Gun Control Does Not Work (proof)

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JoS
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-21 10:31:35 Reply

I wonder what exactly constitutes a DGU in that one study. from the sounds of it a 7-11 clerk chasing a criminal after the robbery with a gun is a DGU. I have a feeling that a lot of the DGUs are after the crime is committed;.


Bellum omnium contra omnes

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Korriken
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-21 11:03:40 Reply

At 4/21/07 12:58 AM, Grammer wrote:
As opposed to killing probably hundreds of people every year. Sorry, but all of the things you name have good uses, as opposed to guns, which are probably mainly used for crime.

well guns are a part of our reality, the knowledge is out there and common so they will never go away. question is. do we take away the law abiding citizens means to defend himself against guns?


Seriously, who the fuck compares the dangers of the internet (i.e, pirating), to the dangers of guns?

pirating? none really. young girls being raped/killed by internet predators?

You people are so dense it frustrates me.

I'm dense and you're ignorant.

You're pretty dense if you can compare killing thousands if not millions of people every year, to at worst, downloading child porn, or hacking.

well how do you think child porn happens? young children being exploited, and all the mental and physical problems that go with it.


Sorry, but it seems to me guns are used for more harm than good. In the hands of civilians who aren't hunting, anyways.

which is exactly why we can't take people's guns away from them. if we do, the only people with guns will be the criminals... and those who simply refuse to hand them over.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-21 11:08:55 Reply

At 4/21/07 01:51 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: Take a look

Most gun crimes are committed by people who cannot legally own a firearm; sales to such people are by definition illegal. ATF data show that a tiny fraction – 1 percent – of gun dealers are the original source of 57 percent of the guns police later recover from criminals; guns from these stores make their way, directly or indirectly, into illegal gun markets.

So what you're saying is that the majority of guns supplied to criminals are through a channel that is a result of guns being legal, huh?

Also, your source: "For example, a study comparing states with high and low gun ownership for 1998-2002 found that children in the high gun states were 3.5 times more likely to be victims of firearm homicide, 12 times more likely to be victims of firearm suicide, and 16 times more likely to die from firearm accidents."

TheMason
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-21 11:18:25 Reply

At 4/21/07 01:30 AM, JoS wrote: Gun-free zones

The problem with the notion some people put forth about how shooters will go where they won't be challenged, Cho and many other people who commit these types of shootings plan on dying anyways, so the fact someone there will have a gun and could shoot them is not a deterant. Its a suicide mission, they are essentially already dead (if they dont kill themselve steh cops will or a judge will).

JoS,

There's several points to this argument:

1) Just because he killed himself does not mean he wanted to be killed by someone else. Yes a person like Cho planned on dying and committing suicide not by Cop but by his own hand. However, he had another objective of killing as many people as he could before he killed himself. Therefore, while yes it is a suicide mission it is not his only mission. He killed himself because he wanted to be in control and die only after he used all but his last bullet on other people. He may have instead tried to find some other "soft" target such as busy business with a sign on the building that prohibited CC holders from entering with their weapons.

2) The point that I have on making it legal for CC holders to carry their weapons, under strict regulations & guidelines, almost anywhere they want is it is not as a deterent. How many lives could have been saved if a guy with a gun had put Cho down as the rabid animal he had become? What would have happened if a teacher at Columbine had been able to put down those two monsters? How many people would not have been shot? How many people could have received medical attention sooner that would have made the difference between life & death?


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LazyDrunk
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-21 11:37:36 Reply

WHat if nobody had guns ever har har then justicfe would reign supreme and my mother could sleep better at night upstairs nobody has a gun to hurt her with, then TV can stop telling her to be scared of teh gun ownar and thar gun ownan wayz.

That's the strength of all your arguments, minus the reasonable background check that never took place in Cho's case anyways because someone dropped the ball.

Someone dropped the ball . . . I wonder what that means? Human error maybe? Let's just dumb it down then, lower the bar so the idiots won't get left behind. Meh, maybe when another abortion clinic gets bombed you people will see that abortion clinic cause bombings.

Fucking morons, the lot of you. Haha, I bet if you chumps get your way, and the next Cho shoots up a campus, he'll send another video showing you EXACTLY how he bypassed all your new little rinky-dink laws that didn't do shit.

...And it'll be funny because maybe your kid will be the one getting killed senselessly. And then you can blame it on whatever utensil did her in, chanting to yourself that if pencils never existed your little Jenny wouldn't be dead right now. You don't argue the necessity of pencils, but you can't argue the necessity of firearms because you don't know how the military works.

Do any of you chumps know how the military works? With guns and shit?


We gladly feast upon those who would subdue us.

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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-21 11:59:07 Reply

Its all a conspiracy here people!

Jumps out window.

Gun Control Does Not Work (proof)

UltraPulse
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-21 12:29:18 Reply

You can add a BB gun to that list. Shoot someone with 10 pumps and a steel BB in the throat and they're dead... Or heavily injured.


I dont have a signature, stop bugging me.

LazyDrunk
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-21 14:22:40 Reply

At 4/21/07 11:59 AM, Brick-top wrote: [pic]

IT'S TRUE!!!!!!!!!

What they don't understand is that the US doesn't take well to foreign troops on it's soil without express premission . . . from the people.


We gladly feast upon those who would subdue us.

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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-21 14:36:21 Reply

At 4/21/07 08:52 AM, D2Kvirus wrote: Since the Dunblane massacre, the US - home of the Second Amendment - has had Columbine, Santee and Virginia Tech, and 14 others to take into account. So, does this mean the right to bear arms is working?

??? America has 5 times the population of the UK. What kind of point is that? Not to mention our population is a lot less homoginized than any of Europes.

And if we want to use anecdotal evidence to justify policies, lets go ahead with Iraq, Afghanistan, Department of Homeland Security, Patriot Act, and all of Bush's Presidency have been successful. Why you ask? Because we havent had any other terror attacks!! You see how stupid this argument would be? Correlation does not imply causation.

JoS
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-21 19:12:58 Reply

One problem with screening gun users to keep it out of the hands of criminals, they can only catch you with screening if you have been arrested and convicted. if you have just never been caught or this is your first crime you can get a gun no problem.

I wonder if the Kennedy space Center shooter's gun was legal. Seeing that it is Texas it probally was.


Bellum omnium contra omnes

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cellardoor6
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-21 19:41:48 Reply

At 4/21/07 08:26 AM, Grammer wrote:
At 4/21/07 01:51 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: Wait... something to mention:

There are between 800,000 to 2.5 million DGU's annually

DGU stands for "defensive gun uses"

Who knows how many murders, rapes etc could have been committed had the victim not had a gun to protect themselves?
As opposed to how many gun related crimes?

A few hundred thousand I believe, but once again, as I proved with the second link, the majority of those crimes aren't committed with legally obtained firearms. Thus making tighter gun control pointless.

Fuck, tazers can be used to defend yourself too.

There is no way a tazer is going to be as effective as a firearm in self-defense. Especially if the perpetrator has a gun.

If there WAS a nonlethal device for self-defense that was as effective as a firearm, then I'd be all for it. But such is not the case and you can't expect law abiding citizens with a flawless criminal record to risk it just because some people try blanketing the entire country with new laws that do nothing to address the real issue.

Oh I have a source. But that doesn't make common sense to you? It doesn't make sense to you that being a criminal who uses a firearm, that they probably couldn't get a gun legally in the first place?
Uh, no, I kinda figured the criminals who had not yet committed a crime would get a gun the legal way w/o going through the trouble of finding a gun on the black market. But I guess there aren't many criminals that fit that description, w/e.

So once the facts come out... where is your logic now?

You disappoint me.
I knew it wouldn't take ya long to use some sort of personal attack.

That's a personal attack to you? Even though I've ignored probably 10 of your previous personal attacks? I was trying to put that crap in the past but I guess you have to find some way of perpetuating it. Good job.


Take a look
Hm, interesting.

Yeah.

Hmmm...
Yes, that really does make the mind wander, doesn't it?

Maybe for you. See, I used to just think that you were just wrong about everything, but now I just think you're not intelligent enough to comprehend anything that you're not used to. And when you get effectively repudiated, your way to cope with it is mindless sarcasm.

I'm not saying ban guns, I'm just saying we should make it harder to obtain them.

How?

Why?

There is no statistical support that making guns harder to legally obtain will have a large enough margin of effect to reduce gun violence over all. Like in the case with the UK, criminals will just evolve, firearms will just be imported in from outside if there is an actual drop in supply, and this will cause more gun violence because the black market will get flooded with smuggled firearms to create a business out of an illegal activity that previously didn't exist to the same degree.


Yay, Obama won. Let's thank his supporters:
-The compliant mainstream media for their pro-Obama propaganda.
-Black Panthers for their intimidation of voters.

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cellardoor6
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-21 19:48:14 Reply

One more thing:

At 4/21/07 12:39 PM, Grammer wrote:
You're trying to be ignorant of all of the good things the internet has brought to us. It has revolutionized the world, and you're trying to compare banning guns to banning the internet. There's no comparison.

Guns revolutionized our country. If it weren't for the private ownership of firearms our country wouldn't exist, we would never have earned independence from the British, and the US never would have created the first constitutional democracy. There would probably still be vast empires today, and the world would be a lot worse.

Also not to mention the fact that our country, which was created by using guns as self defense, invented the internet in the first place.


Yay, Obama won. Let's thank his supporters:
-The compliant mainstream media for their pro-Obama propaganda.
-Black Panthers for their intimidation of voters.

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Brick-top
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-21 20:19:20 Reply

Is it just me or is Cell looking for attention?

I mean, who cares? No one here has the political power to changed the laws making this thread a complaint rather than a discussion. And you assume the government are idiots for not getting rid of gun control completely where as there must be reasons for not scrapping it.

Hashshashin
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-21 20:48:17 Reply

I'm not quite sure which country your referring to, and i'm presuming it's the USA, did not invent the Internet in the first place.

cellardoor6
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-21 20:49:51 Reply

At 4/21/07 08:19 PM, Brick-top wrote: Is it just me or is Cell looking for attention?

You'd just like to pretend that because you can't actually debate the issue, it's too much for your little mind to handle.


I mean, who cares? No one here has the political power to changed the laws making this thread a complaint rather than a discussion.

What are you talking about? That is what ALL political discussion is.

According to you, discussion about abortion, Iraq, Bush, politician scandals etc... it's all just a "complaint" because talking about it isn't going to change anything.


Yay, Obama won. Let's thank his supporters:
-The compliant mainstream media for their pro-Obama propaganda.
-Black Panthers for their intimidation of voters.

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cellardoor6
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-21 20:59:43 Reply

At 4/21/07 08:48 PM, Hashshashin wrote: I'm not quite sure which country your referring to, and i'm presuming it's the USA, did not invent the Internet in the first place.

Actually the US did invent the internet. I'd like you to provide some proof that basically every history book in the world that discusses the internet is false.


Yay, Obama won. Let's thank his supporters:
-The compliant mainstream media for their pro-Obama propaganda.
-Black Panthers for their intimidation of voters.

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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-21 22:02:55 Reply

At 4/21/07 08:49 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:
At 4/21/07 08:19 PM, Brick-top wrote: Is it just me or is Cell looking for attention?
You'd just like to pretend that because you can't actually debate the issue, it's too much for your little mind to handle.

Wow, an intelligence insult. I’m so hurt. You can see just how original you are (Now your thinking about posting a picture of your degree.......)

Look at what happens in threads created by you:
“Oh wait a minute what about…”
“SHUT UP! You’re an idiot! I know everything! My opinions are the only opinions etc Posts links etc more links etc”

And I can’t debate even if I wanted too because if I posted something that was even slightly different to what you say, you jump in head first with half a dozen links. You do realise that the links you are posting could have been done by anyone? You don’t need accurate information to post on the internet so your information could be flawed. Unless the large majority of your information came from a well written and up to date book.


I mean, who cares? No one here has the political power to changed the laws making this thread a complaint rather than a discussion.
What are you talking about? That is what ALL political discussion is.

No, a discussion is where more than one person discusses. You don’t let people get a word in edgeways.

Do you visit your family and tell them about your new car witha smerk and before they can tell you about the low MPG or the interior or any type of fault of it you say:
“No, I picked it so it must be the best car in the world. Don’t make me go on NG and tell teenagers around the world you are wrong!”


According to you, discussion about abortion, Iraq, Bush, politician scandals etc... it's all just a "complaint" because talking about it isn't going to change anything.

More or less. If you start to think about this is a complete waste of time. Hours of our time gone, just so we can argue to cunts on other parts of the planet where we could be doing something relevent. NAAA I'd rather argue.

Absolutly Smashing.

Korriken
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-21 23:14:29 Reply

At 4/21/07 12:39 PM, Grammer wrote:
Thanks for the quaint reminder.

question is. do we take away the law abiding citizens means to defend himself against guns?

No, we just make it harder to legally attain them. As cellardoor's source said, most firearms in the black market come from being bought legally. I like the idea Elfer brought up; a licensing and registration program for firearms. Does America have that already? meh

that is the first step to forced disarming of the people. first you add a few prerequisites for obtaining a firearm, then you slowly but surely pile them on until no one can legally get a gun.

pirating? none really. young girls being raped/killed by internet predators?
There were predators even before the internet, but the uses of the internet far outweigh any sort of negative outcomes. You can't even compare the two, it's kinda sad you're trying.

There was murder before the gun, so what's your point?


If the internet is so inherently evil, then stop using it. I, on the other hand, will only use guns to hunt, because I've always wanted to do that :)

personally, I'm gonna use my guns to hunt animals, and if someone tries to force his/her way through my door/window I'm gonna let em eat a lead bullet, no questions asked.


You people are so dense it frustrates me.
I'm dense and you're ignorant.
You're trying to be ignorant of all of the good things the internet has brought to us. It has revolutionized the world, and you're trying to compare banning guns to banning the internet. There's no comparison.

and you are trying to be ignorant of all the good law abiding citizens owning guns has brought us. If anyone steps onto our soil, they face our guns. if someone breaks into my house, they face my gun. If i'm hungry and cannot afford food, some very unlucky animal is gonna face my gun, then the skillet. If i get bored, some tin cans are gonna face my gun. If someone tries to take my gun, they shall face my gun.

WW2 cronology http://www.secondworldwar.co.uk/dates.html
have you ever once considered that in WW2 that hitler did not invade Switzerland? Look at the map below. The axis nations, Germany and Italy, were BOTH on the border of Switzerland, and yet, neither nation touched it. Why? GUNS! and lots of them! both nations knew that if they invaded Switzerland that they would have to deal with pretty much the entire swiss population, and they would have massive casualties. Every man gets a government issued assault rifle and 24 rounds of ammo to keep at home. there aren't many nations that would mess with that.

Also, I bet obesity in switzerland is practically unheard of due to the military training requirement for all men.

and if you don't believe me, have a look at this map to see where switzerland is located.
http://www.usfca.edu/fromm/Winter%202007%20Ha ndouts/Wolf/Europe-map.gif


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-21 23:23:41 Reply

At 4/21/07 08:26 AM, Grammer wrote:
As opposed to how many gun related crimes? Fuck, tazers can be used to defend yourself too.

I've worked with a Taser before, they have poor range, poor accuracy, and you only get 1 shot, if you miss, you die. also if they are wearing some sort of heavy overgarment the taser is useless. My friend once put on his trench coat and i tasered him to no effect. the taser actually has to make contact with the person for it to work.

Uh, no, I kinda figured the criminals who had not yet committed a crime would get a gun the legal way w/o going through the trouble of finding a gun on the black market. But I guess there aren't many criminals that fit that description, w/e.

legal guns can be traced. black market guns brought in from other countries can be safely cleaned and disposed of. if you get a gun legally, the government has the gun on file with your name. if someone dies and the gun is found to belong to you, then you're in deep shit, especially if it was not reported stolen. why take the risk? get a black market gun the government does not know about.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-22 02:02:13 Reply

At 4/21/07 11:14 PM, Korriken wrote:
WW2 cronology http://www.secondworldwar.co.uk/dates.html
have you ever once considered that in WW2 that hitler did not invade Switzerland? Look at the map below. The axis nations, Germany and Italy, were BOTH on the border of Switzerland, and yet, neither nation touched it. Why? GUNS! and lots of them! both nations knew that if they invaded Switzerland that they would have to deal with pretty much the entire swiss population, and they would have massive casualties. Every man gets a government issued assault rifle and 24 rounds of ammo to keep at home. there aren't many nations that would mess with that.

It's spelled "chronology."

No, guns had very little to do with it. The Wermacht could have rolled over much of the country, forcing the population up into the redoubts in the Alps and then starve them out. But they didn't. It would have been impossible once the USSR was invaded, and before that, it would have been a waste of time, men and materiél.

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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-22 08:46:13 Reply

At 4/21/07 08:59 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:
At 4/21/07 08:48 PM, Hashshashin wrote: I'm not quite sure which country your referring to, and i'm presuming it's the USA, did not invent the Internet in the first place.
Actually the US did invent the internet. I'd like you to provide some proof that basically every history book in the world that discusses the internet is false.

The internet would not be as it is today if it was not for Tim Berners-Lee who created the World Wide Web. The 'Internet' basically stands for a group of interconnected network systems that connects computers all around the world via the TCP/IP Protocol.

Tim Berners-Lee, while working at CERN in SWITZERLAND, may not have created the Internet in the first place, many people each contributed to certain parts of the Internet, and they were all not American, so it is fair to say that America nor Switzerland did not create the Internet, it was all a joint effort from people from many countries. Tim Berners-Lee said - "I just had to take the hypertext idea and connect it to the TCP and DNS ideas and — ta-da! — the World Wide Web."

So really, we can say he is behind the connected network of all computer systems today by linking them through the medium of the World Wide Web.

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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-22 09:47:44 Reply

At 4/21/07 02:36 PM, Demosthenez wrote:
??? America has 5 times the population of the UK. What kind of point is that? Not to mention our population is a lot less homoginized than any of Europes.

So, have 20% the number of people been killed in gun-related crime? Let's see:
In Illinois alone, 573 were killed in gun-related homicides.
In the UK, 73 people were killed in the year between 2004/5.

Sine 115 is 20% of 573 (and that's for one state not the whole country), all I can say is simple mathmatics has proven you wrong. Our gun-related deaths are in double figures, even if it is rising. In the US, it's in quintuple figures, even though it's dropping. Any comparison on your part is, therefore, boneheaded.

And if we want to use anecdotal evidence to justify policies, lets go ahead with Iraq, Afghanistan, Department of Homeland Security, Patriot Act, and all of Bush's Presidency have been successful. Why you ask? Because we havent had any other terror attacks!! You see how stupid this argument would be? Correlation does not imply causation.

Let's just ignore Mardid, London, the Shoe Bomber, Anthrax, That Shit They Made Up Last August and various foiled attempts in the US after 9/11, shall we?

Remind me again, who speculates as a matter of course?


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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-22 10:29:30 Reply

The US still has 30,000+ gun deaths per year. That proves nothing about gun control. It proves everything about WEAK gun control.

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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-22 11:11:10 Reply

At 4/22/07 10:29 AM, HighlyIllogical wrote: The US still has 30,000+ gun deaths per year. That proves nothing about gun control. It proves everything about WEAK gun control.

30K+? Care to give a citation? I usually hear the figure at about 11K. Not saying you're wrong...I just want to make sure I have the right stats!


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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-22 12:02:45 Reply

At 4/21/07 11:14 PM, Korriken wrote:
No, we just make it harder to legally attain them. As cellardoor's source said, most firearms in the black market come from being bought legally. I like the idea Elfer brought up; a licensing and registration program for firearms. Does America have that already? meh
that is the first step to forced disarming of the people. first you add a few prerequisites for obtaining a firearm, then you slowly but surely pile them on until no one can legally get a gun.

Slippery slope argument, you have to actually provide evidence that one will lead to the other. "Evidence" does not include wild speculation based on shaky logic.

A certain amount of regulation is good, but if you go too far, a huge black market springs up, producing effective deregulation.

What we should have is a licensing program to prevent total nutjobs from buying guns, and then keep a tight watch on gun dealers to make sure they aren't selling guns illegally, since, as cell pointed out but doesn't seem to realize, legal gun dealers are the source of the majority of illegal gun sales.

Of course, he draws an erroneous similarity between guns that were manufactured legally, brought into the country legally, kept legally, and so on, with the only illegal link in the chain being the final sale, and guns that were illegal at origin and along every step of the way.

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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-22 13:51:29 Reply

That is the biggest spin-control bullshit I've ever seen. Washington, D.C. has strict gun laws because there are extremely important people running around there. Also, it's a lot of people living in not a lot of space with radically different living conditions, cultures, and opinions. In Texas and Maine, besides large cities, everyone is very spread out, since there's a lot of large stretches of country.


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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-22 15:22:08 Reply

At 4/22/07 12:02 PM, Elfer wrote:
Slippery slope argument, you have to actually provide evidence that one will lead to the other. "Evidence" does not include wild speculation based on shaky logic.

one compromise and the enemy walks all over you. once the government gets a taste of the sweet nectar of snatching away rights, they will want more of it. some regulation is fine, registration of guns, like we do cars, is also fine, but to say, "you gotta jump through these hoops in order to obtain a gun" is the beginning of the end. in time they will add more hoops to jump through, then more and more until only a very few people can afford the time and money to jump through them all. I'm all for preventing felons and the clinically insane/troubled from having a gun, but to say that, me, a mentally stable law abiding citizen cannot enjoy his rights? I don't think so.

What we should have is a licensing program to prevent total nutjobs from buying guns, and then keep a tight watch on gun dealers to make sure they aren't selling guns illegally, since, as cell pointed out but doesn't seem to realize, legal gun dealers are the source of the majority of illegal gun sales.

Simple registration would suffice, and make the dealers keep accurate inventory of what weapons he has in shop and what he has sold. and making the gun manufacturers submit documents showing what guns were sold to what dealers, to check against the dealers.

having the dealers call in the registration info, then the person on the other line punches in the buyer's info to see whether or not he can legally obtain the gun. of course, the mental hospitals would have to notify the government when people are diagnosed with potentially violent mental disorders.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

TheMason
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-22 15:28:18 Reply

At 4/22/07 12:02 PM, Elfer wrote: Of course, he draws an erroneous similarity between guns that were manufactured legally, brought into the country legally, kept legally, and so on, with the only illegal link in the chain being the final sale, and guns that were illegal at origin and along every step of the way.

But you see Elfer we have anti-gun advocates out there who believe that all those people in the chain should be sued when a gun is used illegally...EVEN THOSE GROUPS/INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE DONE EVERYTHING LEGALLY. I think the root of Cellar's connection here is this, something that people like Sarah Brady, Chuck Schumer and NY Mayor Bloomberg have publicly advocated...


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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-22 15:33:07 Reply

At 4/22/07 08:46 AM, Hashshashin wrote: The internet would not be as it is today if it was not for Tim Berners-Lee...
Tim Berners-Lee, ... so it is fair to say that America nor Switzerland did not create the Internet, it was all a joint effort from people from many countries.
So really, we can say he is behind the connected network of all computer systems today by linking them through the medium of the World Wide Web.

You are wrong my friend! We all know the all great & wise ALGORE invented the internet! And he was a POLITICIAN from AMERICA!!!! Some geeky scientist from Switzerland working on the internet! Pa-shah! One of my Leaders said that he himself invented the internet so who are you to tell me otherwise?

ALGORE INVENTED THE INTERNET SO THIS DEBATE IS OVER!!!!


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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-04-22 15:47:08 Reply

At 4/22/07 09:47 AM, D2Kvirus wrote: Sine 115 is 20% of 573 (and that's for one state not the whole country), all I can say is simple mathmatics has proven you wrong. Our gun-related deaths are in double figures, even if it is rising. In the US, it's in quintuple figures, even though it's dropping. Any comparison on your part is, therefore, boneheaded.

The only point is that the UK's gun crime is rising and the ban has not affected that. When did anyone ever argue the US has less gun violence than the UK?

Let's just ignore Mardid, London, the Shoe Bomber, Anthrax, That Shit They Made Up Last August and various foiled attempts in the US after 9/11, shall we?

The US hasnt been hit by terrorism in a few years. Other countries circumstances are immaterial when crafting domestic policy, which is exactly what I was addressing. So in effect all our legislation and efforts have made the United States safer if we want to limit our information like you did earlier with the "no big violence (but there is gang violence) in the UK since the ban" defense.

Remind me again, who speculates as a matter of course?

Speculation? Where exactly is that in what I have written? Keep swinging at those shadows, bro.