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Gun Control Does Not Work (proof)

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SirLebowski
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 19th, 2007 @ 08:48 PM Reply

At 4/19/07 08:02 PM, LazyDrunk wrote:
They knew he was a kook, dickfuck.

And he still obtained guns. So we obvious have a problem.

Suck a barrel and squeeze, kiddo.

=) That insult is related to the issue. Nice.

LazyDrunk
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 19th, 2007 @ 08:49 PM Reply

At 4/19/07 08:48 PM, SirLebowski wrote:
At 4/19/07 08:02 PM, LazyDrunk wrote:
They knew he was a kook, dickfuck.
And he still obtained guns. So we obvious have a problem.

Read the whole thread, then post.


Suck a barrel and squeeze, kiddo.
=) That insult is related to the issue. Nice.

And make sure you glimpse over the part where I scolded grammer, it applies to you, too :)

Have a nice day!


We gladly feast upon those who would subdue us.

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cellardoor6
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 19th, 2007 @ 08:51 PM Reply

At 4/19/07 08:44 PM, Boltrig wrote: The only thing Ill say on this topic regarding the Dunblane tradgedy and ensuing tightening of gun laws, gun crime may have gone up, but name me another massacre of that proportion that took place since the laws came into effect.

That doesn't matter because in the FULL CONTEXT (that you love to ignore in every issue) is that banning handguns didn't lessen gun violence as a whole, gun violence more than doubled in the UK within years after the handgun ban was enforced. Therefore, one single tragic event shouldn't hold sway in the mind of a rational person when it doesn't have much affect on the amount of people killed nationwide over a longer time.

So you'd rather have more gun violence in your country every year as a whole, as long as no large scale shootings take place?

Nice logic.


Yay, Obama won. Let's thank his supporters:
-The compliant mainstream media for their pro-Obama propaganda.
-Black Panthers for their intimidation of voters.

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SirLebowski
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 19th, 2007 @ 08:54 PM Reply

At 4/19/07 08:49 PM, LazyDrunk wrote: And make sure you glimpse over the part where I scolded grammer, it applies to you, too :)

Have a nice day!

Why is it that not one thread on the poltics forum can go 5 pages without a dick like you putting down other people's views with half-witted humor inplace of actually discussion?

LazyDrunk
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 19th, 2007 @ 08:55 PM Reply

At 4/19/07 08:49 PM, Grammer wrote:
At 4/19/07 08:22 PM, LazyDrunk wrote: This kid killed because he had no friends. Know anybody like that?
Hm, no I don't think I do :)

Then you're the guy everyone thinks doesn't have friends ;)


He should've had a big fuckin black mark on his record,
That's exactly what I'm sayin' dude. The person who sold him the gun didn't know he was ruled a danger, and if they did he/she didn't care. His room mates were never even told he was considered a danger, he should've had a fucking I AM A RISK; KEEP AWAY shirt on.

Do you see where I'M going with this? Precision shots instead of carpet bombing, if you can connect A and B without getting lost along the way.
It's not just Cho, dude. Anyone ruled a danger by a court shouldn't be allowed to buy a gun. We have like, the same point, sort of. What's the problem?

It's already a law and you seem to support more legislation? Spefically, the federal regulations discussed as opposed to state legislation? That's the problem.


Grow up a little, get a little life and eath under your belt. Get off the fucking internet.
I'd be insulted if I didn't take you in such a light-hearted way. Is it insulting I don't take you seriously? :o

Not at all. Just don't disbelieve my thought processes because of who I am, disregard them because of who YOU are, if that makes sense.

We're products of our environment.


We gladly feast upon those who would subdue us.

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Boltrig
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 19th, 2007 @ 08:57 PM Reply

At 4/19/07 08:47 PM, LazyDrunk wrote:
At 4/19/07 08:44 PM, Boltrig wrote: The only thing Ill say on this topic regarding the Dunblane tradgedy and ensuing tightening of gun laws, gun crime may have gone up, but name me another massacre of that proportion that took place since the laws came into effect.
When one happens, will you eat your words and support his cause with as much vigor as you are showing now?

Or will you break it down, scenario by scenario and point out the distinct reasons behind the next massacre?

NO, If another massacre on the scale and horrificness of Dunblane happens in this country, I will indeed eat my words.

But my point is that one hasnt happened since then. So far its working (and by that logic nobody can comment on the effectiveness of a law without the qualifier "so far")

TheMason
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 19th, 2007 @ 08:58 PM Reply

At 4/19/07 01:03 PM, JoS wrote: That is a ridiculous arguement. we shouldn't have gun control because people will just buy it illegally anyways. Thats like saying child porn shoudl be legal because people will do it anyways, or we shouldn't make crystal meth illegal because people will just buy that shit anyways.

JoS,

One of the things about this is what would the outcome have been if some of the students on the VT campus had been allowed to carry their handguns on campus?

I believe that Cellar and I would both agree that gun regulation is necessary, but gun banning is bad...M'Kay? And this tragedy provides an opportunity to analyze this issue.

First: This guy was demented to the point that he wanted to die to get the attention he could not get while he was alive. Nothing would have stopped him from getting a gun.

Secondly: This shows the weakness of the gun banning philosophy. This man had no respect for the laws and rules that prohibited him from having firearms on school property. However, any law abiding "gun nuts" who had concealed carry permits (I do not know if there were any or not...but lets assume for argument's sake) did have respect for the rules and left their firearms at home. A madman who was not all that well armed was able to capture and slaughter an unarmed populace.

I would like to say that as much as I am a staunch opponent of stricter gun control, I have found myself believing that we need to tighten our gun laws in this country.

1) I do not believe a resident alien should be allowed to own firearms. Like voting, there should be rights that are a privilidge of citizenship.

2) There needs to be a closer look at a person's mental health. I'm not really sure how to apply this however. I am not advocating mandatory mental health screenings for anyone who is buying a gun. Furthermore, I do not believe having a history of mental illness should necessarily lead to the lifetime repurcussion of being barred from buying a firearm. There are some people who have a one time breakdown but are then cured. However, people who are deemed to be a danger to themselves and especially others should be prohibited from purchasing a firearm...just like Cho.

The problem is making the second point into a practical system.


Debunking conspiracy theories for the New World Order since 1995...
" I hereby accuse you attempting to silence me..." --PurePress

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LazyDrunk
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 19th, 2007 @ 09:03 PM Reply

At 4/19/07 08:57 PM, Boltrig wrote:
At 4/19/07 08:47 PM, LazyDrunk wrote:
At 4/19/07 08:44 PM, Boltrig wrote: The only thing Ill say on this topic regarding the Dunblane tradgedy and ensuing tightening of gun laws, gun crime may have gone up, but name me another massacre of that proportion that took place since the laws came into effect.
When one happens, will you eat your words and support his cause with as much vigor as you are showing now?

Or will you break it down, scenario by scenario and point out the distinct reasons behind the next massacre?
NO, If another massacre on the scale and horrificness of Dunblane happens in this country, I will indeed eat my words.

But my point is that one hasnt happened since then. So far its working (and by that logic nobody can comment on the effectiveness of a law without the qualifier "so far")

That's great that is hasn't happened again, and to say legislation banning firearms didn't directly impact the newfound peace would be false.

Firearm prohibition can work with the right population sample, some people don't understand that. It may be at their own international risk, but domestic gun crimes would plummet.

I don't believe America is like that, or ever will be as long as our Constitution stands just and virtuous. That can't happen without capable and willing enforcement, government or ACLU, libertarian or communist; it really is that simple.

Blanket solutions aren't solutions at all, and creating more criminals to stop the suicidal ones defies logic.

Tell me I'm stupid.


We gladly feast upon those who would subdue us.

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Boltrig
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 19th, 2007 @ 09:05 PM Reply

At 4/19/07 08:58 PM, TheMason wrote:
1) I do not believe a resident alien should be allowed to own firearms. Like voting, there should be rights that are a privilidge of citizenship.

The second ammendment, which is so frequently qouted in situations like this states that it is the right of "the people" to own firearms. I think (not 100% sure) the constitution would need to be changed again to allow the kind of control you propose.

2) There needs to be a closer look at a person's mental health. I'm not really sure how to apply this however. I am not advocating mandatory mental health screenings for anyone who is buying a gun. Furthermore, I do not believe having a history of mental illness should necessarily lead to the lifetime repurcussion of being barred from buying a firearm. There are some people who have a one time breakdown but are then cured. However, people who are deemed to be a danger to themselves and especially others should be prohibited from purchasing a firearm...just like Cho.

The problem is making the second point into a practical system.

Indeed. Some people with mental issues can be perfictly lucid at times. How would you tell someone who was cured of a previous condition from someone who was on his meds on the day of the exam only.

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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 19th, 2007 @ 09:18 PM Reply

At 4/19/07 09:03 PM, LazyDrunk wrote: Tell me I'm stupid.

ur stoopid.

Wow... reading this thread is like listening to some people argue over what color [thing] is, purple or pink? Orange or yellow?

You all basically seem to be headed in the same direction, but your words and how you think the specifics should be handled seem to be tripping everyone up.


"A witty quote proves nothing."
~Voltaire

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cellardoor6
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 19th, 2007 @ 09:31 PM Reply

At 4/19/07 08:57 PM, Boltrig wrote:
At 4/19/07 08:47 PM, LazyDrunk wrote:
At 4/19/07 08:44 PM, Boltrig wrote: The only thing Ill say on this topic regarding the Dunblane tradgedy and ensuing tightening of gun laws, gun crime may have gone up, but name me another massacre of that proportion that took place since the laws came into effect.
When one happens, will you eat your words and support his cause with as much vigor as you are showing now?

Or will you break it down, scenario by scenario and point out the distinct reasons behind the next massacre?
NO, If another massacre on the scale and horrificness of Dunblane happens in this country, I will indeed eat my words.

But my point is that one hasnt happened since then. So far its working (and by that logic nobody can comment on the effectiveness of a law without the qualifier "so far")

Where is your logic? Your overall amount of gun violence has gun up since the handgun ban, more than twice as many crimes involving handguns take place in the UK than before the ban.

Why the hell does it matter of massacres of larger scale don't take place anymore if more people still die over all?

You're allowing your emotional response to a single incident cloud your judgment. Yeah Dunblane was bad, and a similar situation hasn't happened since, but the over all gun crime went up exponentially and is still doing so. The handgun ban DID NOT work. The fact that a similar shooting to Dunblane hasn't taken place has nothing to do with the handgun ban, how could it? Especially all while gun violence in the UK over all is going up continually?


Yay, Obama won. Let's thank his supporters:
-The compliant mainstream media for their pro-Obama propaganda.
-Black Panthers for their intimidation of voters.

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NYiz4Dorks
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 19th, 2007 @ 09:33 PM Reply

You work for NRA or something? Gun control does work. I don't know what the problem is from restricting crazy people from not being allowed to buy a gun over the counter and so easily. As is the case from the VA tech shooter, he was deemed unsafe to himself and others by profesionaly doctors. Running a check for a gun purchase doesn't seem unreasonable. I don't know why gunlovers think it's such a big deal.

LazyDrunk
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 19th, 2007 @ 09:45 PM Reply

At 4/19/07 09:24 PM, Grammer wrote:
At 4/19/07 08:55 PM, LazyDrunk wrote: Then you're the guy everyone thinks doesn't have friends ;)
Ha, you sure are dependent on personal attacks, as weak as they may be.

So what makes you think I have no friends?

You couldn't think of one person who has none? That's what MAKES me think that. Not just toss it out there, but BELIEVE IN IT, like 110% and shit.


That's exactly what I'm sayin' dude. The person who sold him the gun didn't know he was ruled a danger, and if they did he/she didn't care. His room mates were never even told he was considered a danger, he should've had a fucking I AM A RISK; KEEP AWAY shirt on.

Do you see where I'M going with this? Precision shots instead of carpet bombing, if you can connect A and B without getting lost along the way.
It's not just Cho, dude. Anyone ruled a danger by a court shouldn't be allowed to buy a gun. We have like, the same point, sort of. What's the problem?
It's already a law and you seem to support more legislation?
Uh, no it's not. Not in VA, anyways.

Spefically, the federal regulations discussed as opposed to state legislation? That's the problem.

Grow up a little, get a little life and eath under your belt. Get off the fucking internet.
I'd be insulted if I didn't take you in such a light-hearted way. Is it insulting I don't take you seriously? :o
Not at all. Just don't disbelieve my thought processes because of who I am, disregard them because of who YOU are, if that makes sense.
I don't really know you, and I don't care. If you think you can disregard what I say, just because you don't think I'm a very credible person

Then don't post in threads you don't care about, then go on to bitch about people pick on you because you don't care.

Make sense?

(even though I always make common sense arguments), doesn't mean you can just say: "Oh, he's Grammer, so he can't be right". With flawed logic such as that, I'm surprised other people haven't regarded you as nonsensical, yet.

There's a reason for that.


We gladly feast upon those who would subdue us.

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Boltrig
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 19th, 2007 @ 09:52 PM Reply

At 4/19/07 09:31 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:
Where is your logic? Your overall amount of gun violence has gun up since the handgun ban, more than twice as many crimes involving handguns take place in the UK than before the ban.

Yuh huh, and how many people using guns in crimes had licences for the guns I wonder?

Why the hell does it matter of massacres of larger scale don't take place anymore if more people still die over all?

Criminals have guns in America too. Rising gun crime is due to (wait for it) criminals! You think regular people having guns will solve that?

You're allowing your emotional response to a single incident cloud your judgment. Yeah Dunblane was bad, and a similar situation hasn't happened since, but the over all gun crime went up exponentially and is still doing so. The handgun ban DID NOT work. The fact that a similar shooting to Dunblane hasn't taken place has nothing to do with the handgun ban, how could it? Especially all while gun violence in the UK over all is going up continually?

It has everything to do with it. Thomas Hamilton had a firearms licence. His gun was legal. If guns are illegal, then you can be certain that only criminals have guns, rather than be suspicious of everyone who has one.

If you are adamantly in favour of having a gun, even for "defence" then it proves you have the mind set of someone willing to kill. Thats not a healthy state of mind.

TheMason
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 19th, 2007 @ 10:06 PM Reply

At 4/19/07 09:05 PM, Boltrig wrote:
At 4/19/07 08:58 PM, TheMason wrote:
The second ammendment, which is so frequently qouted in situations like this states that it is the right of "the people" to own firearms. I think (not 100% sure) the constitution would need to be changed again to allow the kind of control you propose.

No it would not. To fill out the quote that you are referring to is "We the people of the United States..." Not every right under the Constitution is applicable to everyone...there are citizenship requirments for some of these. So no...it would not require amending the Constitution.


Indeed. Some people with mental issues can be perfictly lucid at times. How would you tell someone who was cured of a previous condition from someone who was on his meds on the day of the exam only.

Exactly. I think that if a person can remain stable...without meds...for a period of five years and after a psychological screening should have his/her rights to gun ownership restored.

However, there should me more transparency when it comes to people who are commited. Perhaps there should be a database (like the FBI's criminal database) that is consulted before a person gets their gun...basically expand the background check.


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" I hereby accuse you attempting to silence me..." --PurePress

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TheMason
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 19th, 2007 @ 10:14 PM Reply

At 4/19/07 09:33 PM, NYiz4Dorks wrote: You work for NRA or something? Gun control does work. I don't know what the problem is from restricting crazy people from not being allowed to buy a gun over the counter and so easily. As is the case from the VA tech shooter, he was deemed unsafe to himself and others by profesionaly doctors. Running a check for a gun purchase doesn't seem unreasonable. I don't know why gunlovers think it's such a big deal.

I don't think that this is something that Cellar or I are arguing. Our point is that gun banning does not work. However, I (and I believe Cellar agrees with me) think that background checks to verify laws that are already on the books are perfectly fine.

However, you have to realize that the reality of the situation is gun control no matter how strict (up to a firearms ban) or liberal would have prevented Cho from commiting Tuesday's horrible attack. The simple truth is a person like that is determined enough to find a way to either procure a gun illegally or use something such as explosives or even chemical or biological attack...


Debunking conspiracy theories for the New World Order since 1995...
" I hereby accuse you attempting to silence me..." --PurePress

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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 19th, 2007 @ 10:20 PM Reply

I'm amazed that no one has ever used a Coke Bottle Cluster Bomb yet. they're easy to make and extremely lethal as they spray pellets in every direction. Perhaps their lethality is what has prevented its use, because if you don't find cover, you will be sprayed with pellets as well.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

cellardoor6
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 19th, 2007 @ 10:25 PM Reply

At 4/19/07 09:52 PM, Boltrig wrote:
At 4/19/07 09:31 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:
Where is your logic? Your overall amount of gun violence has gun up since the handgun ban, more than twice as many crimes involving handguns take place in the UK than before the ban.
Yuh huh, and how many people using guns in crimes had licences for the guns I wonder?

Not many considering the UK banned LEGALLY purchasing handguns across the board. So I wonder how many of those crimes in the UK over all were committed by law-abiding citizens? Probably not many. Thus making targeting legal purchase of handguns ridiculous.

Why the hell does it matter of massacres of larger scale don't take place anymore if more people still die over all?
Criminals have guns in America too. Rising gun crime is due to (wait for it) criminals! You think regular people having guns will solve that?

You think taking guns away from regular people will solve it? Obviously it didn't, it made it worse.

The idea is, when law-abiding, responsible citizens are disarmed, criminals are emboldened because they can prey upon a disarmed citizen population. This makes crime go up.

That's a vastly more reasonable conclusion than your idea that taking away guns from law-abiding citizens will stop criminals from using guns illegally.

You're allowing your emotional response to a single incident cloud your judgment. Yeah Dunblane was bad, and a similar situation hasn't happened since, but the over all gun crime went up exponentially and is still doing so. The handgun ban DID NOT work. The fact that a similar shooting to Dunblane hasn't taken place has nothing to do with the handgun ban, how could it? Especially all while gun violence in the UK over all is going up continually?
It has everything to do with it. Thomas Hamilton had a firearms licence. His gun was legal. If guns are illegal, then you can be certain that only criminals have guns, rather than be suspicious of everyone who has one.

That is the DUMBEST thing I've ever heard. All that does is make it so that the only people with guns are criminals... meaning good Samaritans and people who want to defend themselves won't have the means to do so against armed criminals, yet the criminals will have free reign.

If you are adamantly in favour of having a gun, even for "defence" then it proves you have the mind set of someone willing to kill. Thats not a healthy state of mind.

Everyone has the right to self defense. It's not "to kill" it's to "protect" if there was a non-lethal self defense mechanism that was as effective as a gun I would be all for it.

Wanting to protect yourself and your loved ones from criminals armed with firearms, by OWNING and using a firearm responsibly.. YEAH that's not a healthy state of mind compared taking guns away from LAW ABIDING CITIZENS and thus making gun crime worse right?


Yay, Obama won. Let's thank his supporters:
-The compliant mainstream media for their pro-Obama propaganda.
-Black Panthers for their intimidation of voters.

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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 19th, 2007 @ 10:50 PM Reply

At 4/19/07 08:58 PM, TheMason wrote: I believe that Cellar and I would both agree that gun regulation is necessary, but gun banning is bad...M'Kay? And this tragedy provides an opportunity to analyze this issue.

I actually have explicitly stated in this thread I do not advocate banning guns. Where you got this idea I do nto know. I said we should make it more difficult to get them. When a man who has been committed to a mental health facility can get a gun in less than an hour LEGALLY there needs to be changes. This is why I advocate licensing gun owners/users.

The paragraph you quoted was in response to someone saying that if they want a gun they will just buy it illegally anyways so there is no point in trying to make it more difficult.


First: This guy was demented to the point that he wanted to die to get the attention he could not get while he was alive. Nothing would have stopped him from getting a gun.

Again does not mean we shoudl make it easy for him. People seem to think that buying a gun on the black market is like going to Wal-mart. there is no sign saying illegal guns this way. It is do-able but it is nto easy, certainly not as easy as buying legally in Virginia. Alot of black market handguns in the US come from Virginia.

Secondly: This shows the weakness of the gun banning philosophy. This man had no respect for the laws and rules that prohibited him from having firearms on school property. However, any law abiding "gun nuts" who had concealed carry permits (I do not know if there were any or not...but lets assume for argument's sake) did have respect for the rules and left their firearms at home. A madman who was not all that well armed was able to capture and slaughter an unarmed populace.

Should we also allow people to bring guns into highschools to shoot the next Eric and Dylan?

We agree on almost all the same points, except maybe the point of allowing them into schools and shit.

How often are their shootings on Universities campuses? Now how many schools are there in the Country? The odds are probally you are more likely to be hit by lightning or win the lottery than get killed by a school shooter. So what are the chances that if you do carry a gun to school that it will ever be required. I think its an invite for disaster.


Bellum omnium contra omnes

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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 19th, 2007 @ 11:09 PM Reply

At 4/19/07 09:52 PM, Boltrig wrote:
At 4/19/07 09:31 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:
Yuh huh, and how many people using guns in crimes had licences for the guns I wonder?

How many people using guns in crime will give up their gun if they get banned? you can probably count the number on the hands of this guy.


Why the hell does it matter of massacres of larger scale don't take place anymore if more people still die over all?
Criminals have guns in America too. Rising gun crime is due to (wait for it) criminals! You think regular people having guns will solve that?

simple self defense is a deterrent, especially if the criminals know that they could get killed if they break into someone's home or attack someone. if you take away people's guns then the criminals with guns have little to fear, and as long as they get away before any cops show up they're relatively safe from retaliation. However, if the person is armed with his own gun, he can injure or even kill the attacker, preventing his own demise as well as the demise of family members.

It has everything to do with it. Thomas Hamilton had a firearms licence. His gun was legal. If guns are illegal, then you can be certain that only criminals have guns, rather than be suspicious of everyone who has one.

If you have something that no one can defend against, it emboldens you to use it, especially if you have no qualms in harming or killing to get what you want.


If you are adamantly in favour of having a gun, even for "defence" then it proves you have the mind set of someone willing to kill. Thats not a healthy state of mind.

To say, "I don't need to defend myself" is Naive and foolish. You can't always rely on someone else (the cops) to assist you in a bad situation. Defending yourself is not a bad thing. you're so adamantly against legal gun ownership, that you remove any and all pros to the situation out of your mind and meditate on the cons. Not allowing people that are diagnosed with mental problems access to guns. that is fair. but to say the average Joe who just wants to make sure his family and home are safe will have to settle for taking on a gun toting criminal with his bare hands? bullshit. if someone breaks into my house, I'll be damned sure to use my gun on them. (but what if its a family member?) well, I keep my door locked at night with a bolt that cannot be opened from the outside, so if they get in, they had to use considerable force to get the door opened, and how many people do you know that will force your door open in the middle of the night just to say "Hi!"?

consider this hypothetical but very possible situation. you are asleep one night when you hear a window break. you go to phone the police but the line is dead; the criminal cut the phone line at the box. your phone is now useless and you cannot dial for help. you try to dial your cell phone only to find out that you have no signal, something is jamming your signal and you cannot call out on your cell phone. you have no weapons in your house, as you do not believe in having a weapon. Help will not come because you cannot call for help. you hear a scram from another room; it's one of your children screaming for help! you rush to your child's side, but the criminal, not wanting to be identified, turns to you and fires 1 round into your chest with a supressed .22 pistol. you fall backwards, unable to breathe because the bullet has punctured your lung. the criminal walks past you into your child's bedroom and opens fire shooting him/her in the head, killing your child. blood fills your lung and searing pain runs across your chest. you look up to see that the criminal has noted that you still live and fires one last shot into your head, killing you. the criminal then walks into your bedroom, kills your wife, plunders anything of value and walks out. The next day your neighbor sees a broken window, and comes over to let you know about it to find your entire family dead.

all because you lacked the means to fight back. a pity. had you had a gun you could have took the initiative and taken out the criminal before he could endanger your family. the criminals all have guns, why should you not be on the same level they are? why should you settle for an inferior means to fight back? if you don't arm yourself, then you're no better off than a feudal peasent at the mercy of the soldiers.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 19th, 2007 @ 11:13 PM Reply

-hugs cellardoor6-

Finally somoene who sees Gun laws my way! If someone is going to commit murder (which is a CRIME) then why not break yet ANOTHER law and get a gun?! Sure gun laws make it harder for people to get guns, but law abiding citizens won't have them... who will?

Why, CRIMINALS of course!!!

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'Keeping it slightly real'

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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 19th, 2007 @ 11:14 PM Reply

At 4/19/07 10:53 PM, Grammer wrote:
At 4/19/07 09:45 PM, LazyDrunk wrote:
At 4/19/07 09:24 PM, Grammer wrote:
At 4/19/07 08:55 PM, LazyDrunk wrote: Then you're the guy everyone thinks doesn't have friends ;)
Ha, you sure are dependent on personal attacks, as weak as they may be.

So what makes you think I have no friends?
You couldn't think of one person who has none?
I was leading you on to get you to actually say I have no friends. Then I could laugh for assuming you know anything about me.

The fact I merely have to put "get off the internet" in a post to make you post again isn't as enjoyable as what you'd think it'd be.

But I am having fun :)


Spefically, the federal regulations discussed as opposed to state legislation? That's the problem.
It should be a federal regulation. If you're ruled a danger by a court, it only makes sense that you're not allowed to buy a gun.

Start a petition. Maybe that'll get the clerk to check twice next time. Otherwise you're shit out of luck, something you depend on waaaaaay too much.


We gladly feast upon those who would subdue us.

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LazyDrunk
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 19th, 2007 @ 11:16 PM Reply

And for you people too stupid to understand exactly who Cho was, he sent you a package in the mail, with the wrong zipcode, between shotting people dead.

You are the type of people he wanted to reach, and he has.


We gladly feast upon those who would subdue us.

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Korriken
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 20th, 2007 @ 12:03 AM Reply

At 4/19/07 11:16 PM, LazyDrunk wrote: And for you people too stupid to understand exactly who Cho was, he sent you a package in the mail, with the wrong zipcode, between shotting people dead.

You are the type of people he wanted to reach, and he has.

Personally, It makes me wonder how a shooting could have taken place at a university, the shooter walks off of campus, comes back 2 hours and does it again. Why was the school not shut down? Why was the student body not made aware of the shooting? why was security not stepped up? Why was that place not CRAWLING with policemen looking for the killer?


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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 20th, 2007 @ 12:05 AM Reply

ahh jeez, I did it again, for some reason I thought I was in the VA shooting thread. Sorry about that. Carry on with the gun debate. (ignore the previous post)


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LazyDrunk
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 20th, 2007 @ 12:12 AM Reply

At 4/20/07 12:05 AM, Korriken wrote: ahh jeez, I did it again, for some reason I thought I was in the VA shooting thread. Sorry about that. Carry on with the gun debate. (ignore the previous post)

Don't worry, you merely spelled out what should've been understood by everyone reading these threads.

Props.


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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 20th, 2007 @ 01:41 AM Reply

we msut not forget nto everyone killed by guns is killed by gangs or in large shooting sprees. Often crimes of passion are a result of firearms in clos eproximity. Also children playing with improperly stored firearms is another ocncern. While having gun laws won't prevent people from killing eachother, it can certainly help in reducing the number.

And so that no one goes on a big rant here about me and my gun hating views, I am nto calling for a gun ban, but I am calling for some restructuring of the current system because it clealry is not working.


Bellum omnium contra omnes

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LazyDrunk
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 20th, 2007 @ 02:02 AM Reply

At 4/20/07 01:41 AM, JoS wrote: we msut not forget nto everyone killed by guns is killed by gangs or in large shooting sprees. Often crimes of passion are a result of firearms in clos eproximity. Also children playing with improperly stored firearms is another ocncern. While having gun laws won't prevent people from killing eachother, it can certainly help in reducing the number.

And so that no one goes on a big rant here about me and my gun hating views, I am nto calling for a gun ban, but I am calling for some restructuring of the current system because it clealry is not working.

Which part?

You don't take your car to the mechanic and tell them to fix it without having a clue what's wrong with it, right?

I always see the blame finger, not from you, but it's always pointing in a general direction over the horizon that never quite makes it where it's owner intends.

What was wrong with him purchasing a firearm>? He was not redlit on his background check, for any number of possible reasons, including but not limited to: cashier error, database input error, psychiatric error, legislative error, accomplice assistance, forged documents, or just some well-planned patience and understanding of the environment around him.

I guess I want to you from you is: which part failed? Who should be made example of?


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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 20th, 2007 @ 02:12 AM Reply

At 4/20/07 02:02 AM, LazyDrunk wrote: Which part?
I always see the blame finger, not from you, but it's always pointing in a general direction over the horizon that never quite makes it where it's owner intends.

This is why I support the licensing idea. You go through the background check to get your license originally. If something happens that woudl cause you to not be able to buy a weapon (criminal or mental health) you license is revoked, just like a drivers license. You have to take a basic test that deals with the safe operation, handling and storing of a firearm as well as the laws surrounding guns, just like you do for a drivers license.

When you go to the store to buy a gun you show your gun license and some other ID, they check to see if you hold a valid license and then you can get your gun.

Who dropped the ball in this case though, I can not say for certain untill all the facts surroudning this case are known, but according to an interview with the gun store owner, the ball was dropped by the FBI as that is who all firearms checks go through and they did not flag him because of his mental health. Whether the other authorities forgot to report it properly or something remains to be seen, but there was failure somewhere along the line.


Bellum omnium contra omnes

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LazyDrunk
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) Apr. 20th, 2007 @ 02:48 AM Reply

At 4/20/07 02:12 AM, JoS wrote:
At 4/20/07 02:02 AM, LazyDrunk wrote: Which part?
I always see the blame finger, not from you, but it's always pointing in a general direction over the horizon that never quite makes it where it's owner intends.
This is why I support the licensing idea. You go through the background check to get your license originally. If something happens that woudl cause you to not be able to buy a weapon (criminal or mental health) you license is revoked, just like a drivers license.

I follow.

You have to take a basic test that deals with the safe operation, handling and storing of a firearm as well as the laws surrounding guns, just like you do for a drivers license.

I'm almost positive firearm training is required for public firearm operation, I know for a fact it is for <18, but 18+ . . . not so sure. I think once you're able to vote, you're able to get a gun. I sorta like how that is . . . if you can vote you can buy a gun. Doesn't that seem reasonable already? If you aren't a felon or an imminent threat to society, you shouldn't vote either right?

The thing is with these types of licenses, you're going to need to employ equal resources, similar to those needed for verifying, producing, and storing archives of data and capital and people that oversee the driver's license network . . . every time firearms have been regulated in such a manner, history has proven that the next step is total bannination/confiscation. History is a hard bullet to bite sometimes, but it's better than letting it go through your skull and out the back.


When you go to the store to buy a gun you show your gun license and some other ID, they check to see if you hold a valid license and then you can get your gun.

Who dropped the ball in this case though, I can not say for certain untill all the facts surroudning this case are known, but according to an interview with the gun store owner, the ball was dropped by the FBI as that is who all firearms checks go through and they did not flag him because of his mental health.

Interesting . . . did the FBI say why THEY failed? Understaffed? Overlooked? Not important enough for their federal scale?

Whether the other authorities forgot to report it properly or something remains to be seen, but there was failure somewhere along the line.

Definitely. That's what I see here, immense failure on many peoples parts, and the grim success of a fucked-up failure piece of shit stain on life.


We gladly feast upon those who would subdue us.

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