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Gun Control Does Not Work (proof)

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HighlyIllogical
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-06 16:59:21 Reply

You still seem to not understand the basic facts of the case.

Cho was adjudicated to be mentally incompetent.

It didn't show up on his background check.

It should have.

Case closed.

Geordi-Laforge
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-06 17:03:46 Reply

At 5/6/07 04:59 PM, HighlyIllogical wrote: You still seem to not understand the basic facts of the case.

I've said my piece, and anyone looking back on this thread will know it.


Cho was adjudicated to be mentally incompetent.

He was also a resident alien.


It didn't show up on his background check.

It should have.

You still don't understand the specifics, even after I put them in "bulleted format" for you.


Case closed.

Your brain's been closed this whole time, no reason it should change now.

That would be illogical.

Dre-Man
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-06 17:13:08 Reply

At 5/6/07 04:43 PM, HighlyIllogical wrote:
At 5/6/07 04:34 PM, Dre-Man wrote:
Actually, it's quite the opposite.
Oh, really?

Numbers, please.

1.) I gave you the link, if you didn't take the time to read it, that's your problem, not mine.

2.) The reason he killed 32 people with such ease, is because nobody stood up to him. If 10 of those 32 people charged at him, even if the guns were FULLY LOADED, they could have overpowered and killed him easily.

3.) It's not the gun's fault, it's the crazed Korean kid's fault. END of story.

HighlyIllogical
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-06 18:52:38 Reply

At 5/6/07 05:03 PM, Geordi-Laforge wrote:
He was also a resident alien.

How is this relevant to the case?

Your brain's been closed this whole time

Ad hominem.

Demosthenez
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-06 19:14:19 Reply

At 5/6/07 04:43 PM, HighlyIllogical wrote: I have some, if you'd care to look:

I believe there is an ammendment that is among those most sacred ammendments known as the Bill of Rights that says "Stick your figures up your ass and blow."

You were harping on my proposal to set term limits, something the "Fouders didnt propose" as you put it so convincingly. Well, guess what the Founders REALLY didnt porpose? Oh, how about 99% of the fucking elitist bullshit you believe in? Man, that sounds to nice. Lets put it more real: everything you believe in is a giant pile of hypocritical bullshit that rests on the most astoundingly simplistic logic you would be suprised anyone aware of how arrogant and hypocritical their views are is not embarrassed to propse them. Is it the complete lack of shame or just the complete denial of it?

HighlyIllogical
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-06 19:16:16 Reply

At 5/6/07 06:54 PM, LazyDrunk wrote:
Hew may not have been afforded protection under the 2nd Amendment, and other Constitutional rights, with what not being a citizen and all.

A couple of pertinent supreme court opinions and rulings apply to that, then:

"“once an alien lawfully enters and resides in this country he becomes invested with the rights guaranteed by the Constitution to all people within our borders. Such rights include those protected by the First and the Fifth Amendments …” -- Concurring opinion of Justice Frank Murphy in Bridges v. Wixon

“Freedom of speech and of press is accorded aliens residing in this country” -- Bridges v. Wixon (1945) majority opinion

The ruling in Plyler v. Doe (1982) said that children of illegal aliens (presumably the children born out of the US) are entitled to public education.

I would think that the 2nd amendment does apply in this case?

Elfer
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-06 21:46:26 Reply

So how about this:

We implement a system where the person is simply flagged as being unable to purchase a firearm without the reasons being disclosed to the vendor. However, the individual would be able to check the reason on their own and contest it if necessary.

That would clear up privacy issues while closing the privacy loophole.

HighlyIllogical
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-06 21:47:59 Reply

Hold on.

Cho got a gun and killed people, we agree on that, right?

He was adjudicated to be incompetent. Still with me?

He shouldn't have been able to get a gun.

What is the fundamental problem with that?

Dre-Man
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-06 21:58:02 Reply

At 5/6/07 09:47 PM, HighlyIllogical wrote: Hold on.

Cho got a gun and killed people, we agree on that, right?

Right.

He was adjudicated to be incompetent. Still with me?

Right.

He shouldn't have been able to get a gun.

Right. But only because he should have either been hospitalized or kept under house arrest.

If you're sane enough to lead a semi-normal life, you should be sane enough to buy a firearm, but Cho in this case, wasn't competent enough for either, probably.

What is the fundamental problem with that?

Nothing.

kensijo
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-07 00:17:48 Reply

guns can still be found everywhere.

Korriken
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-07 08:40:27 Reply

At 5/6/07 04:43 PM, HighlyIllogical wrote:
"For every time a gun is used in a home in a legally-justifiable shooting there are 22
criminal, unintentional, and suicide-related shootings." -- Kellermann AL, Somes G, Rivara FP, et al. "Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the
home." The Journal of Trauma. 1998;45:263-267.

Yeah, the benefits of guns *really* outweigh the problems they cause.

they include unintentional and suicide along with criminal? c'mon, thats bloating the number. we need a numbers breakdown. how many criminal uses actually involved the gun being fired, how many of them numbers involve suicide? of course, blowing your own brains out IS the most common form of suicide.... However, if you wanna kill yourself badly enough then taking away your gun isn't much of a deterrent.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

Brick-top
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-07 14:32:22 Reply

At 5/7/07 12:17 AM, kensijo wrote: guns can still be found everywhere.

Looks on floor

Nope can't see one.

Dre-Man
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-07 14:54:06 Reply

At 5/7/07 02:32 PM, Brick-top wrote:
At 5/7/07 12:17 AM, kensijo wrote: guns can still be found everywhere.
Looks on floor

Nope can't see one.

Try the black market, dickwad.

Demosthenez
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-07 15:31:49 Reply

At 5/7/07 02:32 PM, Brick-top wrote:
At 5/7/07 12:17 AM, kensijo wrote: guns can still be found everywhere.
Looks on floor
Nope can't see one.

I just looked in my refrigerator and I have confirmed there are in fact no guns there, also.

Brick-top
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-07 16:47:04 Reply

At 5/7/07 02:54 PM, Dre-Man wrote:
At 5/7/07 02:32 PM, Brick-top wrote:
At 5/7/07 12:17 AM, kensijo wrote: guns can still be found everywhere.
Looks on floor

Nope can't see one.
Try the black market, dickwad.

You should of told me that before I went searching in the attic lol. Oh shit theres one in my shoe!

D2Kvirus
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-09 12:02:44 Reply

At 5/5/07 04:05 PM, LazyDrunk wrote:
Works for me. Good arguments, btw.

Hmm...

At 4/30/07 03:55 AM, the LazyDrunk's entire argument was:


No it isn't.

Nope.

Meh, your arguments are flimsy at best, diluted and sketchy, probably, dumb, always.

Of course.

You just use some really stupid "points" and stubbornly refuse to concede obvious points.

You were saying? Something about a smell of taint, wasn't it?


Propaganda is to a Democracy what violence is to a Dictatorship
Never underestimate the significance of "significant."
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WolvenBear
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-10 06:54:57 Reply

At 5/6/07 09:58 PM, Dre-Man wrote: Right. But only because he should have either been hospitalized or kept under house arrest.

If you're sane enough to lead a semi-normal life, you should be sane enough to buy a firearm, but Cho in this case, wasn't competent enough for either, probably.

A doctor deemed him competant. Sorry, last I checked, judges can't decide whether someone is mentally ill or not.


Joe Biden is not change. He's more of the same.

D2Kvirus
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-12 11:09:43 Reply

At 5/9/07 04:06 PM, LazyDrunk wrote:
At 5/9/07 12:02 PM, D2Kvirus wrote:
You were saying? Something about a smell of taint, wasn't it?
Thanks for the addendum.

Blah blah blah. You're still content with arguments that have no application in reality.

UK murder rate going down.
US murder rate going up.

I repeat until it becomes a tiresome catchphrase and I need some new material - you were saying?


Propaganda is to a Democracy what violence is to a Dictatorship
Never underestimate the significance of "significant."
NG Politics Discussion 101

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lilfatjoey
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-13 19:13:11 Reply

what about columbine and virgina tech, you named places that had 15-20 casualties when these 2 schools had over 30... you shud have used those 2 schools to strengthen your statement, and no matter what law is passed there are still ways of gettin your hands on guns. such as the black markets, or a child stealing a firearm or weapon from their parents who do have permits for them =\

HighlyIllogical
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-13 20:49:53 Reply

At 5/12/07 11:09 AM, D2Kvirus wrote:
UK murder rate going down.
US murder rate going up.

Repeated for great justice.

Also, I'd like to address this:

At 5/10/07 06:54 AM, WolvenBear wrote: A doctor deemed him competant. Sorry, last I checked, judges can't decide whether someone is mentally ill or not.

A judge can adjudicate you to be mentally incompetent on the advice of a psychiatrist...

That's what happened in Cho's case. I read the court documents -- http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/04/18/cho.
pdf

Korriken
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-14 00:19:54 Reply

At 5/13/07 12:21 PM, D2Kvirus wrote: For fuck's sake, if a gun is so useful, how comes an 82 year-old man defeated an shotgun-toting robber with a lettuce?

further proof that even the mighty Bag of Shopping can be used as a weapon. That old man is lucky he didn't get blasted. I would be shocked too if someone wielding a all powerful Bag of Shopping swung it and hit me.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

WolvenBear
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-15 17:24:11 Reply

At 5/13/07 08:49 PM, HighlyIllogical wrote: A judge can adjudicate you to be mentally incompetent on the advice of a psychiatrist...

Key words "on the advice of a psychiatrist".
Barrett didn't have a that advice. His psychologist recommended outpatient.


That's what happened in Cho's case. I read the court documents -- http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/04/18/cho.
pdf

Cho was told to go to counsiling. A head doctor found him, for lack of a better term, to be ok in da head.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/04192007/news/nat ionalnews/cho_presents_an_imminent_danger__ju dge_wrote_in_05_nationalnews_leela_de_krester __________post_correspondent.htm


Joe Biden is not change. He's more of the same.

HighlyIllogical
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-15 17:32:21 Reply

At 5/15/07 04:16 PM, LazyDrunk wrote: Looks like banning guns works in a small island full of your type of people. I wonder why?

Swiss murder rate

Switzerland has the second highest murder rate per 100,000 persons...the US is 1st. (Where We Stand, Michael Wolff, Peter Rutten & Albert F. Bayers III)

WolvenBear
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-15 17:50:12 Reply

At 5/12/07 11:09 AM, D2Kvirus wrote: UK murder rate going down.
US murder rate going up.

I repeat until it becomes a tiresome catchphrase and I need some new material - you were saying?

Well, the crime rate originally wen't up before it went down soooooo......


Joe Biden is not change. He's more of the same.

WolvenBear
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Joe Biden is not change. He's more of the same.

HighlyIllogical
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-15 22:15:26 Reply

At 5/15/07 09:26 PM, WolvenBear wrote: Guns aren't even needed to shoot yourself!

Man, that guy was an I-D-I-O-T...

But the point of the thread is that "gun control does not work," and that's been debunked.

WolvenBear
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-15 22:18:34 Reply

At 5/15/07 10:15 PM, HighlyIllogical wrote:
At 5/15/07 09:26 PM, WolvenBear wrote: Guns aren't even needed to shoot yourself!
Man, that guy was an I-D-I-O-T...

But the point of the thread is that "gun control does not work," and that's been debunked.

No, it hasn't. A bunch of anti-gun talking points that have been discredited over and over have been thrown out, but that's about it.

Even the US/UK murder rates were irrelevant.


Joe Biden is not change. He's more of the same.

HighlyIllogical
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-15 22:29:14 Reply

Did you read the Switzerland stats?

Those are quite relevant. Even a fully armed society has a hell of a lot of murders. Actually, it has more murders per 100,000 persons than any nation but the US of A.

WolvenBear
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-15 22:56:39 Reply

At 5/15/07 10:29 PM, HighlyIllogical wrote: Did you read the Switzerland stats?

No. And going back, I don't see them.
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st/st176/s176b.html

But here's another one that talks about them.


Those are quite relevant. Even a fully armed society has a hell of a lot of murders. Actually, it has more murders per 100,000 persons than any nation but the US of A.

Yet, Israel is a fully armed society and has a much lower crime rate (ignoring suicide bombers) than almost anywhere else in the world. Citizens can get automatic weapons even.

Every single place in the world that has banned guns has seen a sharp rise in crime afterwards.


Joe Biden is not change. He's more of the same.

DM692
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Response to Gun Control Does Not Work (proof) 2007-05-18 08:49:34 Reply

how long did it take to write this? lol...


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