33 Killed in school massacre

[Korriken]

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.asp x?type=topNews&storyid=2007-04-16T222510Z_01_
N16311336_RTRUKOC_0_US-USA-CRIME-SHOOTING.xml

yep, it happened again, another school shooting.

what is your take on the event?

discuss?

[TheShrike]

A lil late, mmm?

I blame the gory videogame Doom.

[Flatland]

I blame mentally disturbed koreans.

[SyntheticTacos]

And Jack Thompson blamed it on video games within the day.

"School shooting expert", yeah right.

[Bolo]

A lil late, mmm?

Holy Christ, no kidding.

Not only is the news over 24 hours old, it already has an official topic.

[Korriken]

damn, you're right, I didn't see it :( sorry.

[Dre-Man]

GRAND THEFT AUTO IS MURDERING OUR CHILDREN!

[Vaebn]

I blame the killer

[SuperDeagle]

After rigorous studies I have scientifically proven that violent Video Games do 'not' and let me stress do NOT create violent people.

[uhnoesanoob]

At 4/17/07 05:56 PM, Dre-Man wrote: GRAND THEFT AUTO IS MURDERING OUR CHILDREN!

NO, ITS THE CHURCH'S FAULT...FOR...UM...TELLING PEOPLE THEY CAN COME BACK TO LIFE!!!!!

[cellardoor6]

I blame the gun, and the US for having guns. That's right, the killer deserves no blame, its the gun and the gun laws' fault and this is just proof the US needs to change it's gun laws. But never mind the fact that the guns used in this rampage are both legal in almost every single western country. Also never mind the fact that the shooter shouldn't have had guns anyway because he wasn't a US citizen. It's not his fault, it's America's fault for having guns.

Oh yeah, and this wouldn't have happened if GTA was banned.

Oh and by the way I turned into a liberal overnight.

[FeargusMcDuff]

Why do you Americans get so shocked when warped kids go on shooting sprees, yet you defend the sale of guns to anyone providing they have $30?

[Korriken]

At 4/17/07 06:40 PM, FeargusMcDuff wrote: Why do you Americans get so shocked when warped kids go on shooting sprees, yet you defend the sale of guns to anyone providing they have $30?

cheapest gun I ever seen was $50. and it was a .410.

well, why do you Europeans get so shocked when a person is found murdered in their home and you refuse to allow them to defend themselves?

[Dre-Man]

At 4/17/07 06:40 PM, FeargusMcDuff wrote: Why do you Americans get so shocked when warped kids go on shooting sprees, yet you defend the sale of guns to anyone providing they have $30?

Unfortunately our right to bear arms was changed to "in the militia" just after the civil war WITHOUT the approval of the states, same as the 14th amendment.

[FeargusMcDuff]

At 4/17/07 06:44 PM, Korriken wrote:

At 4/17/07 06:40 PM, FeargusMcDuff wrote: Why do you Americans get so shocked when warped kids go on shooting sprees, yet you defend the sale of guns to anyone providing they have $30?

cheapest gun I ever seen was $50. and it was a .410.

Oh well that changes everything.
I'd have to save for another week to buy a gun!

well, why do you Europeans get so shocked when a person is found murdered in their home and you refuse to allow them to defend themselves?

I really am not shocked because it doesn't happen frequently. If it was reported nobody would say "Well if only the guy had a shotgun, the whole thing would never have happened!"

Because if everyone has a gun...nobody has a gun...right?

[Korriken]

At 4/17/07 06:40 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

Oh and by the way I turned into a liberal overnight.

damn that was fast! but now.... I'm all alone on this forum... reckon I'll turn liberal too.

yeah better blame the guns on this one, and not the guy who decided it would be a good idea to shoot a bunch of people and writing a letter saying that "rich kids" made him do it, thereby, taking all the blame off of him and putting it on the rich kids and since a gun was used in the killings, all people who fight for their gun rights must be blamed too.

and since video games and hunting involve guns, we must blame games and hunting. Also the olympic games have a few games that use guns, so we blame the olympics too! and the military uses guns, and the Us military's commander in chief is.. BUSH! BLAME BUSH!!!

so here who's to blame.
1. President Bush
2. Southerners
3. Gun rights Activists
4. The US Military, all branches
5. the Olympic games
6. hunting
7.Video games

who we are NOT to blame

1. the killer, who willing and knowlingly murdered over 30 people.

[Bolo]

At 4/17/07 06:44 PM, Korriken wrote:

At 4/17/07 06:40 PM, FeargusMcDuff wrote: Why do you Americans get so shocked when warped kids go on shooting sprees, yet you defend the sale of guns to anyone providing they have $30?

cheapest gun I ever seen was $50. and it was a .410.

it takes only a few days of minimum wage salary to pay for a gun. And if you get it from a gun show there ARE NO STRINGS ATTACHED. That is, you can buy the damn thing and go on a killing spree ten minutes later.

Why is it that you can buy Automatic weapons at these gun shows. What, exactly, is the civilian use of an automatic weapon, besides the possibility for massacres? You can't hunt with it—that takes the sport away. You can't use it for target practice, that requires no skill.

So what does a civilian want with an Kalashnikov?

[MortifiedPenguins]

At 4/17/07 06:46 PM, Dre-Man wrote:

At 4/17/07 06:40 PM, FeargusMcDuff wrote:

Unfortunately our right to bear arms was changed to "in the militia" just after the civil war WITHOUT the approval of the states, same as the 14th amendment.

Do you do crack?

[Korriken]

At 4/17/07 06:53 PM, FeargusMcDuff wrote:

I really am not shocked because it doesn't happen frequently. If it was reported nobody would say "Well if only the guy had a shotgun, the whole thing would never have happened!"

then I'll say it. If they had a gun and knew how to use it, They could have shot the intruder and prevented their own demise. saying otherwise would be like saying, "don't bother wearing a safety helmet when riding a motorcycle, it won't help."

Because if everyone has a gun...nobody has a gun...right?

wrong. If everyone has a gun, then everyone has a gun. and when everyone has a gun and knows how to use it, many people will think twice about breaking into someone's home, especially when they are at home. but if they know you are not armed, what do they have to fear?

[SuperDeagle]

At 4/17/07 07:01 PM, Bolo wrote: So what does a civilian want with an Kalashnikov?

hang it on my wall

[cellardoor6]

At 4/17/07 06:40 PM, FeargusMcDuff wrote: Why do you Americans get so shocked when warped kids go on shooting sprees, yet you defend the sale of guns to anyone providing they have $30?

Hey moron, the gun he bought was over $500 and the guy showed 3 forms of I.D. and had a 3 day background check.

And the main gun he used, which is the Glock 19 9mm is legal in almost every western country, it's legal in Canada of all places!

[FeargusMcDuff]

Who the hell breaks into a house just to kill people?

Anyway i think i kinda went off-topic. My point was you Americans should stop being so shocked and outraged at what happens when you have a law allowing anyone to get hold of a gun at anytime with no strings attached.

Take the good with the bad, if you want to 'feel safe' in your house from people that can get hold of guns easily by arming yourself with a gun then go ahead, just when someone messed up in the head can work for 10 hours, and then 10 minutes after recieving his money go and shoot 32 people understand that the only way to stop that from happening is to swallow your pride and get rid of your guns.

"don't bother wearing a safety helmet when riding a motorcycle, it won't help."

It's not like that at all.
No guns = no gun murder
Guns = Gun murder

[SyntheticTacos]

At 4/17/07 07:08 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 4/17/07 06:40 PM, FeargusMcDuff wrote: Why do you Americans get so shocked when warped kids go on shooting sprees, yet you defend the sale of guns to anyone providing they have $30?

Not all Americans are pro-gun rights. That said, I am, and I'm wondering where your logic is coming from. Do you think these killers think,
"Well, I was going to buy a gun and go on a shooting spree, but now that it's illegal for me to acquire a gun, I guess I won't do it! I mean, murdering people is one thing, but illegally acquiring a gun? I'm not doing something like THAT!"

If someone is already going to commit murder, do you really think that making it illegal to buy a gun is going to stop them from getting something already so widely sold?

[Korriken]

At 4/17/07 07:01 PM, Bolo wrote:

it takes only a few days of minimum wage salary to pay for a gun. And if you get it from a gun show there ARE NO STRINGS ATTACHED. That is, you can buy the damn thing and go on a killing spree ten minutes later.

I'll take it you've never been to a gun show before, the hoops you gotta jump through are the same to obtain a gun. there is no gun sale without an ID check, background check, and any mandatory waiting times.

Why is it that you can buy Automatic weapons at these gun shows. What, exactly, is the civilian use of an automatic weapon, besides the possibility for massacres? You can't hunt with it—that takes the sport away. You can't use it for target practice, that requires no skill.

where is this gun show you went to that allows people to buy automatic weapons with no background check? every gun show I went to required me to have lots of background checks and even wait times. also, I have yet to see a fully automatic weapon at a gunshow.

Also, no one is gonna use a fully automatic rifle in a school shooting, the automatic setting kills the accuracy at a distance and is hard as hell to conceal, if not impossible. a regular hunting rifle or a sawn off shotgun would do the job so much better. of course nothing beats the concealability of a regular pistol, much like the pistol the guy used in the virginia shooting.

So what does a civilian want with an Kalashnikov?

How many people do you know that actually OWN a, AK-47? I know 1 person, and it's not capable of full auto.

Also, you can turn any semi auto gun into a full auto with a few minor modifications.

[MortifiedPenguins]

At 4/17/07 07:14 PM, FeargusMcDuff wrote:

It's not like that at all.
No guns = no gun murder
Guns = Gun murder

From 1973 to 1992, the number of handguns owned increased by 110%; the per capita rate of homicide was unpatterned and varied erratically over the same period, and was 9.5% lower in 1992. Fewer homicides were committed with firearms in 1988 than in 1973.18

http://www.jpfo.org/data-docs.htm

[SyntheticTacos]

At 4/17/07 07:14 PM, FeargusMcDuff wrote:

No guns = no gun murder
Guns = Gun murder

Nice, except

Banning guns =/= no guns

[FeargusMcDuff]

How guns lead to large school shootings.

Going to bed now so can't continue fighting my corner. Sorry!

BTW my spelling is crap as i have no spellcheck on paint and have naturally shitty spelling

[cellardoor6]

At 4/17/07 07:01 PM, Bolo wrote:

At 4/17/07 06:44 PM, Korriken wrote:

At 4/17/07 06:40 PM, FeargusMcDuff wrote: Why do you Americans get so shocked when warped kids go on shooting sprees, yet you defend the sale of guns to anyone providing they have $30?

cheapest gun I ever seen was $50. and it was a .410.

Why is it that you can buy Automatic weapons at these gun shows.

You're just parading your ignorance right now. When you refer to "automatic weapons" you refer to FULLY automatic weapons which require vast paperwork to get a hold of and have almost never been used in a crime in the US.

What the VT shooter used were SEMI AUTO handguns that are legal almost EVERYWHERE, including Canada and Australia, both of which have almost non existent gun crime.

What, exactly, is the civilian use of an automatic weapon, besides the possibility for massacres?

Whats the point of banning civilian weapons when doing so doesn't actually lower gun violence?

The pistols that were used in the VT shooting are entirely legitimate civilian weapons, the Glock 19 9mm is a very popular self defense and target shooting hand gun , and the Walther P22 .22lr is a very popular target shooting that fires very cheap, very low-power rounds.

The issue here is the SHOOTER. Not the fucking gun or the gun laws.

You can't hunt with it—that takes the sport away.

No it doesn't. Semi automatic rifles are very legitimate hunting weapons. You are a lot more likely to end the animal's life more quickly with a follow up shot, this makes it much more humane.

You can't use it for target practice, that requires no skill.

Holy crap you are dumb. Fully automatic weapons are actually the HARDEST to be accurate with due to their recoil.

And semi-autos are used for target shooting ALL THE TIME because scores are based on the accuracy of each round, making how quickly or fast you shoot irrelevant except for speed-shooting matches.

You don't know what the hell you're talking about.

So what does a civilian want with an Kalashnikov?

Um actually I have used my AK-47 for hunting, it is very reliable and when you use a 5 round magazine instead of a 30 it is entirely legal and legitimate to use. In fact, semi-autos are REQUIRED for hunting some animals in some places because it makes it safer for the hunter and makes it so that the animal doesn't die slowly with only one bullet wound.

And the round it fires, the 7.62x39mm round is a very versatile round for hunting and due to it's relatively low recoil makes it alot easier to shoot with.

So you need learn not to talk about shit you know nothing about.

[Korriken]

At 4/17/07 07:14 PM, FeargusMcDuff wrote: Who the hell breaks into a house just to kill people?

Charles Manson, for one. Also, many break-ins are to steal things, and when the person wakes up, they wind up getting killed so that they won't call the cops.

Anyway i think i kinda went off-topic. My point was you Americans should stop being so shocked and outraged at what happens when you have a law allowing anyone to get hold of a gun at anytime with no strings attached.

what the hell ever, you keep saying "with no strings attached" and when you good and damn well anyone with a violent criminal history, a mental problem, a felony of any kind, cannot legally purchase a gun. there are also a few other things that can disqualify you from owning a gun, I just cannot think of them at the moment. Also, you cannot just walk up to a gun shop and walk out with a machine gun and a pile of ammo, in america to get a gun you gotta first get a background check, most guns have a pretty extensive waiting time before you can purchase the gun, if you have a violent criminal record you cannot own a gun, if you are a felon you cannot own a gun, if you have a diagnosed mental problem you cannot own a gun.

and also you keep focusing on the "zomgs your country allows guns" rhetoric, and you know good and well if someone ran through a school with an icepick or pocket knife, lethal weapons you CAN get with no strings attached, and no ID check, stabbing people down, it would get the same reaction.

Take the good with the bad, if you want to 'feel safe' in your house from people that can get hold of guns easily by arming yourself with a gun then go ahead, just when someone messed up in the head can work for 10 hours, and then 10 minutes after recieving his money go and shoot 32 people understand that the only way to stop that from happening is to swallow your pride and get rid of your guns.

you know, you can kill people with more than guns right? let's see.. Slingshots, baseball bats, steel pipes, any and all martial arts weapons,bow and arrow, your bare hands, water, fire, eletricity, stones, rope, anything flexible, poison, cars, and that names just a FEW things you can kill someone with. guns just so happen to be easy to use.

"don't bother wearing a safety helmet when riding a motorcycle, it won't help."

It's not like that at all.

bullshit. you can opt to not defend yourself when attacked, but I prefer the "Live and let die" idea rather than the "beg for your life before you die" idea. I PREFER "live and let live" but some people won't let live, so they have to die, not me.

No guns = no gun murder

and people say MY logic is messed up? ok here's how it REALLY works
no guns = improvised guns = gun murder making a gun is very simple, easier than making a bomb even, and we hear of improvised bombs being used all over the world. Ammo? well, ammo is pretty easy to make as well. put it this way. strong steel pipe + gunpowder + ball bearings + fuse + improvised handle to hold the pipe = shotgun. single shot yes, but still, it only takes one shot.

Guns = Gun murder

Thank you Captain Obvious.

[cellardoor6]

At 4/17/07 07:14 PM, FeargusMcDuff wrote: Who the hell breaks into a house just to kill people?

Who shouldn't have the right to protect themselves with a gun from armed criminals who break into their house?

Anyway i think i kinda went off-topic. My point was you Americans should stop being so shocked and outraged at what happens when you have a law allowing anyone to get hold of a gun at anytime with no strings attached.

And my point is that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about when you say that becuase Americans have to pass background checks to get firearms. The only way to get guns with no strings attached in the US is to buy them through the black market ILEGALLY, thus making stricter gun laws entirely pointless.

Take the good with the bad, if you want to 'feel safe' in your house from people that can get hold of guns easily by arming yourself with a gun then go ahead, just when someone messed up in the head can work for 10 hours, and then 10 minutes after recieving his money go and shoot 32 people understand that the only way to stop that from happening is to swallow your pride and get rid of your guns.

You don't know what you're talking about. Preventing law abiding citizens form owning guns doesn't lessen gun violence. Look at the fucking UK, they banned handguns (like were used in the VT shooting) and their gun violence actually WENT UP.

There is no connection with gun crime and gun ownership, because people who legally own their guns almost NEVER use them illegally, while the people who DO use them illegally will be able to get guns regardless.

No guns = no gun murder

God damn you people just get exponentially more dumb as you go.

NO LEGAL gun ownership = guns only in the hands of criminals who don't obey the law