It hurts when you call me professor

[JoS]

Do you know how much your prof makes? We all think our profs make very decent wages, but did you know many teachers in university make less than $25 000 teaching a full course laod. This is BS an unacceptable.

[fli]

Where in heck does my money go?

[Ravariel]

At 4/13/07 11:57 PM, fli wrote: Where in heck does my money go?

That's the first thing I thought of, too. 30-60k a year per student and my prof makes less than I do? Weak.

[UWDarDar17]

Tuition goes to not only pay professors, but everyone else (TAs, secretaries, officials), and it assists in research funds, building upkeep...But you are correct, the amount that professors are paid is paltry compared to the services they render.

[Ravariel]

At 4/14/07 12:59 AM, UWDarDar17 wrote: Tuition goes to not only pay professors, but everyone else (TAs, secretaries, officials), and it assists in research funds, building upkeep...But you are correct, the amount that professors are paid is paltry compared to the services they render.

I go to the University of Michigan. We have the single most recognized (and sold) football logo (and helmet) in the world. Our football program could fund the entire school, administration, other sports, everything... That I still have to pay 25 grand to attend and professors get paid poo... that's ridiculous. Granted, profs at U of M probably aren't exactly at the bottom of the pile pay-wise... but th epoint remains.

[JoS]

There are many tenure or tenure track profs at universities, but there is a growing number of contract faculty. While I do agree that they play a role in education (especially for specialty courses) the schools should not be relying on them to the extent they do now. Our university presidents make upwards of $250 000, our profs make upwards of $75 000, but these educators are making less than they would as a Wal-Mart greeter. How is this fair. They do the same work, have the same qualifications as tenure track but we sideline them and use them.

[hongkongexpress]

I though they would at least be earning 90-100 K for having a PHD. 26,000? I make more than that, and I used to work at Mc Fuck's (Mc Donald's). Like those research papers we write are 40 pages usually, and 40 times thousands of students..... no wonder my professors kept on writing Good work Casey! but try to tone it down, and gives me A-

Now I know how much they put in, I will tone it down. But I love writing term papers actually. Because you have to express YOUR own interpertation of other people's research, to show that you understood, and not juss reciting a bunch of facts.

[Madferit]

A country that steals 66% of your money can't afford the schools?

[Elfer]

At 4/14/07 01:35 AM, JoS wrote: They do the same work, have the same qualifications as tenure track but we sideline them and use them.

Part-time teaching profs don't do the same work as professors with tenure who work for the university.

[MortifiedPenguins]

Who cares?

None of us are professors here, why does it matter.

[BeFell]

University of Toronto president David Naylor says that concerns about sessional lecturers are related mostly to undergraduate programs in the humanities, social sciences and sciences

These are people who majored in stuff like English, History or Sociology. What did they think was going to happen? If you're going to go into an overcrowded field with no jobs available outside of University settings don't be surprised if you don't make as much as the folks who were smart enough to get their education in something with actual demand.

This is just a fact of economics, the reason these people are working for so little is because they don't have any other options. These people aren't like business professors or engineers or those with degrees in actual sciences where they could easily step into a high paying job outside of Universities. The reason they are making wages comparable to a burger flipper or a Wal-Mart greeter is that's pretty much the only other thing a degree in history qualifies you to do once you leave campus.

Fuck these people they have doctorates and yet they are too stupid to understand supply and demand? Lot's of people with worthless degrees combined with low demand means rock bottom pay. Perhaps they would understand this if they had majored in Economics, they would certainly be making a lot more.

[JoS]

At 4/14/07 10:14 AM, Elfer wrote:

At 4/14/07 01:35 AM, JoS wrote: They do the same work, have the same qualifications as tenure track but we sideline them and use them.

Part-time teaching profs don't do the same work as professors with tenure who work for the university.

Yeah the only difference is they do not do research. They do just as much teaching (if not more because they usually have to teach at two schools), just a smuch amrking and just as much course prep.

We haev always been told the more education you get the more money you can make. Well these people have Ph D (9 years of post-secondary education) and they are making as much as a high school drop-out.

Which do you feel is the most important part of an educators work, teaching the minds of tomorrow or research?

[BeFell]

At 4/14/07 11:18 AM, JoS wrote: Which do you feel is the most important part of an educators work, teaching the minds of tomorrow or research?

For someone with a PhD in English? Waxing my car.

[SmilezRoyale]

At 4/13/07 11:29 PM, JoS wrote: Do you know how much your prof makes? We all think our profs make very decent wages, but did you know many teachers in university make less than $25 000 teaching a full course laod. This is BS an unacceptable.

I'm already aware.

Most college money is put into a furnace where it's burned [100 years ago somone came up with that idea to help slow down inflation]

[Der-Lowe]

Wah, wah! Less than 2000 USD per month!!
Most professors work for free here, so stop whining.

[JoS]

At 4/14/07 11:42 AM, Der-Lowe wrote: Wah, wah! Less than 2000 USD per month!!
Most professors work for free here, so stop whining.

How are they supposed to pay their bills, or their debts from 9 years of school?

[SyntheticTacos]

At 4/14/07 11:42 AM, Der-Lowe wrote: Wah, wah! Less than 2000 USD per month!!
Most professors work for free here, so stop whining.

While Argentina ranks highest , it still has a lower GDP per capita (PPP) than most First World countries. It ranks 49th according to the International Monetary Fund and 50th according to the CIA World Factbook. The point is while that may be the standard in Argentina there's a higher standard in Western Countries. We're not gonna start murdering protestors because that's how it's done in Zimbabwe, so we're not gonna stop paying professors because that's how it's done in Argentina.

I agree though that when people think of more petty issues they should consider how it's like in non-Westernized countries, but having well-paid and qualified professors is very important to progress society.

[RiriBlue]

At 4/14/07 11:18 AM, JoS wrote: Which do you feel is the most important part of an educators work, teaching the minds of tomorrow or research?

Research, obviously. How would you teaching something to the minds of tomorrow if it hasn't been discovered yet?

And your article mentions only the contract teaching professors, who, for the most part, have contributed little or no research material to the world while even the assistant professors at our university (UW-Madison) have at least 6 papers under their belts. Thus, it's understandable that they'd be paid similarly to, say, a high school teacher. After all, Universities don't pay their profs to teach - they pay them so they could snag a few nobels back to the University in question.

[Elfer]

At 4/14/07 11:18 AM, JoS wrote:

At 4/14/07 10:14 AM, Elfer wrote:

At 4/14/07 01:35 AM, JoS wrote: They do the same work, have the same qualifications as tenure track but we sideline them and use them.

Part-time teaching profs don't do the same work as professors with tenure who work for the university.

Which do you feel is the most important part of an educators work, teaching the minds of tomorrow or research?

Irrelevant. They don't do the same work.

A majority of the work that professors with tenure do is research, which brings a great deal of money in to the university. They spend a fair bit more time doing research, reviewing papers, etc. than they do teaching.

It's like how people in marketing make more than artists. Sure, the art is worth more to society, but marketing bring in more cash.

Not to mention, new research is extremely important. You can't call teaching without research the "same work" as teaching with research, it doesn't match up.

[UWDarDar17]

At 4/14/07 11:17 AM, BeFell wrote: University of Toronto president David Naylor says that concerns about sessional lecturers are related mostly to undergraduate programs in the humanities, social sciences and sciences

These are people who majored in stuff like English, History or Sociology. What did they think was going to happen? If you're going to go into an overcrowded field with no jobs available outside of University settings don't be surprised if you don't make as much as the folks who were smart enough to get their education in something with actual demand.

This is just a fact of economics, the reason these people are working for so little is because they don't have any other options. These people aren't like business professors or engineers or those with degrees in actual sciences where they could easily step into a high paying job outside of Universities. The reason they are making wages comparable to a burger flipper or a Wal-Mart greeter is that's pretty much the only other thing a degree in history qualifies you to do once you leave campus.

Fuck these people they have doctorates and yet they are too stupid to understand supply and demand? Lot's of people with worthless degrees combined with low demand means rock bottom pay. Perhaps they would understand this if they had majored in Economics, they would certainly be making a lot more.

Actually, it's not a matter of having overcrowded fields. Studies show that many companies desire people with history degrees, because history majors are quite good at analysis and seeing the big picture. These two abilities are gold for companies that want to expand. Not to mention that history majors are often pre-law students, joining the ranks of lawyers, and many of whom go on to make a lot of money. Sociology majors often find themselves in a wide range of positions, especially in management and policy-making, because their education allows a deeper understanding of human behavior. English majors don't have to become starving writers. A lot of them do become teachers (and English teachers are always in demand), and a lot of them go into the various media.

I, for instance, am a History and Political Science major. Now, you BeFell, may be laughing, but when my four years here are up, I have multiple choices. I can continue school and get a master's and doctorate, or I can go to law school, or I can settle into a job in politics. Hell, a Fortune 500 company might want to hire me for my skills and knowledge.

The real overcrowded fields, BeFell, are your much-adored sciences. There are only so many spaces that open up each year, yet thousands of engineers, biosci majors, and pharm students compete for those spaces. Competition is fierce at any college, and I know plenty of sci students here all competing with the others in their field to be the best, so they can get recognized and land a job at Bell Labs or IBM or some other think tank.

And in the end, I would rather be doing a job that I love for little pay, then work a job for three times the amount of money that leaves me bored and soulless. I hope you can say the same.

[JoS]

At 4/14/07 12:54 PM, RiriBlue wrote: And your article mentions only the contract teaching professors, who, for the most part, have contributed little or no research material to the world while even the assistant professors at our university (UW-Madison) have at least 6 papers under their belts.

I have a prof who is contract faculty and he has 4 papers under his belt. Contract prof cant do research because usually they do not have library privledges, nor do they get sabaticals, which tenure track profs get to take time off from teaching, still get paid and do their research. Its hard to do research and teach three courses at the same time. Its not that they do not want to do research, its they do not have the resources as a contract faculty to do research.

[BeFell]

At 4/14/07 01:02 PM, UWDarDar17 wrote: Actually, it's not a matter of having overcrowded fields. Studies show that many companies desire people with history degrees, because history majors are quite good at analysis and seeing the big picture. These two abilities are gold for companies that want to expand. Not to mention that history majors are often pre-law students, joining the ranks of lawyers, and many of whom go on to make a lot of money. Sociology majors often find themselves in a wide range of positions, especially in management and policy-making, because their education allows a deeper understanding of human behavior. English majors don't have to become starving writers. A lot of them do become teachers (and English teachers are always in demand), and a lot of them go into the various media.

I'm sorry but logic just doesn't back up you position. While there may be some application in the business world for history majors do you honestly believe that they are going to be sought after like accounting or finance majors? I'm sure there are lots of rewarding things you can do with those degrees but the fact is there just aren't as many as other fields thus there is less demand.

I, for instance, am a History and Political Science major. Now, you BeFell, may be laughing, but when my four years here are up, I have multiple choices. I can continue school and get a master's and doctorate, or I can go to law school, or I can settle into a job in politics. Hell, a Fortune 500 company might want to hire me for my skills and knowledge.

Will pursuing that doctorate pay off for you? I'm getting my Masters so I'll be qualified to be a Certified Public Accountant a masters for you will lead to...? A law degree would certainly lead to a lucrative career but that's puts in a whole different realm than someone with a PhD in your field.

The real overcrowded fields, BeFell, are your much-adored sciences. There are only so many spaces that open up each year, yet thousands of engineers, biosci majors, and pharm students compete for those spaces. Competition is fierce at any college, and I know plenty of sci students here all competing with the others in their field to be the best, so they can get recognized and land a job at Bell Labs or IBM or some other think tank.

Follow the money, most people with degrees in engineering and science can get jobs with decent salaries, what about those who pursue the social sciences?

And in the end, I would rather be doing a job that I love for little pay, then work a job for three times the amount of money that leaves me bored and soulless. I hope you can say the same.

Then what are we talking about. I'm simply saying that if you choose to do something you love knowing that you'll make less money don't whine and complain about your choice.

[UWDarDar17]

At 4/14/07 01:27 PM, BeFell wrote: Then what are we talking about. I'm simply saying that if you choose to do something you love knowing that you'll make less money don't whine and complain about your choice.

Ah, but now we are debating on whether it is better to have a job you love with little pay or to have a job you don't like so much for big pay. The real question, and the question that is really at the heart of this topic is if it is right for professors, and other teachers for that matter, to be paid so little. Why should the lawyer make more than the professor? Why should the rock star make more than the professor? Is it a matter of workload, education required, or a simple matter of what society deems important and worthy of reward?

[BeFell]

At 4/14/07 01:33 PM, UWDarDar17 wrote: The real question, and the question that is really at the heart of this topic is if it is right for professors, and other teachers for that matter, to be paid so little. Why should the lawyer make more than the professor? Why should the rock star make more than the professor? Is it a matter of workload, education required, or a simple matter of what society deems important and worthy of reward?

It's supply and demand, there are more mediocre English professors than talented rockers or lawyers.

[SEXY-FETUS]

If you want to teach for the sake of money you shouldn't be teaching. For the most part I find that professors will own a business or have a reasonable amount of money invested to earn themselves money outside of teaching.

[Der-Lowe]

At 4/14/07 12:42 PM, JoS wrote:

At 4/14/07 11:42 AM, Der-Lowe wrote: Wah, wah! Less than 2000 USD per month!!
Most professors work for free here, so stop whining.

How are they supposed to pay their bills, or their debts from 9 years of school?

Education is for free, and they are well paid professionals, they do it for the social status being a College professor gives.

[TSCom]

You don't say...

One thing you must understand about America is that the worthless, uneducated people are the ones who earn the big bucks, and those with intellect end up getting paid shit.

[MortifiedPenguins]

At 4/14/07 07:46 PM, Grammer wrote:

At 4/14/07 10:20 AM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

I'm pretty sure Jos is, or at least at one point was, a teacher.

There's a major difference between a teacher and a Proffessor.

Seven is a techer.

Your crazy liberal teacher is a proffessor.

Anyways, it's the private market, the salary for the job will be determined by the private market.

[JoS]

At 4/14/07 07:46 PM, Grammer wrote:

At 4/14/07 10:20 AM, MortifiedPenguins wrote: Who cares?

None of us are professors here, why does it matter.

I'm pretty sure Jos is, or at least at one point was, a teacher.

No, but I am friends with several people who are contract faculty

Do we have to be a member of a certain group to care about something? It does matter, they are people too and deserve our support. They are our mentors, our teachers, and if you want to look at it from a certain prosepctive, our employees (they work for us via our tution money).

[BeFell]

At 4/14/07 09:33 PM, JoS wrote: Do we have to be a member of a certain group to care about something? It does matter, they are people too and deserve our support. They are our mentors, our teachers, and if you want to look at it from a certain prosepctive, our employees (they work for us via our tution money).

I think I'd fire them. They weren't even smart enough to capitalize on the opportunity for a college education. All over the world there are people in extreme poverty, some to the point of starving to death with no chance of ever improving their condition.

With this going on I am somewhat baffled to realize I am reading an outcry for support to go to individuals who spent 8 or 9 years earning degrees in nothing. We're suppose to feel sorry for people who had the opportunity to become surgeons, lawyers, bankers, managers, research biologists, better paid high school or elementary school teachers or any number of things which lead to high salaries. Instead they chose to focus on poetry or relationship patterns in 17th century France. Is this stuff necessarily worthless to our society? Probably but we're still willing to support a few people doing it but not as many as appear to going into the field.

The most disgusting thing about this topic is the fact they did it to themselves.

This discussion is especially shameful in the fact that these imbeciles have been compared to people who didn't have the opportunity for a college education such as those stuck in retail or working at McDonalds. Good God almighty pity going to those who had the financial backing and ability to earn PhDs and chose to waste it while simultaneously those no thought is given to those in similar financial circumstances who had no opportunity.

I know I'm rambling but I just can't express how wrong this is. Perhaps for five bucks I could get one of these "Doctors" to help me, but then I'm not willing to part with that much money for something so trivial. Now if they could help me with my tax return...