Iraqi Parliament Bombed!

[Bolo]

I'm sure some of you are aware of the Iraq Parliament Building Bombing that occurred today. Normally, bombings in Iraq aren't worth making a new topic about, but this is different.

The Iraqi parliament is a symbol of the effort to create a stable democracy, or at least a government, in Iraq. A bomber apparently entered the building, and planted a bomb in the middle of the bulding, killing eight people, including three Iraqi legislators.

How a bomber penetrated the HEAVILY-GUARDED perimeter of Parliament, which is perhaps one of the MOST heavily-guarded buildings in Iraq, is as yet unknown. It should be noted that the building was recently handed over the Iraqi military control. It's already been suggested that perhaps this was an inside job, instigated by several guards, who might've been paid off to look the other way while the bomber entered. It's also possible that the guards, or even some legislators, are involved with the insurgency themselves.

My question to you: Is this a microcosm of the prevailing climate in Iraq—an expression of the lack of desire to comply with American wishes in the creation of a stable government?

[Memorize]

The fact that you didn't see this coming what amazes me.

[Bolo]

At 4/12/07 07:26 PM, Memorize wrote: The fact that you didn't see this coming what amazes me.

The fact that this is one of the most heavily guarded buildings in the country is what should amaze YOU.

It's a symbol of government, and by striking its core, the faction responsible is perpetuating the climate of instability that is already running rampant.

I mean, this building has probably over 250 guards at ANY GIVEN TIME. You'd think at least a few of them would've seen the person with the suspicious package enter the building.

[Altarus]

At 4/12/07 07:18 PM, Bolo wrote: My question to you: Is this a microcosm of the prevailing climate in Iraq—an expression of the lack of desire to comply with American wishes in the creation of a stable government?

I think it is just Al Qaeda trying to chip away at the Iraqi people's confidence in ability of their government to protect them and at the sense that security is improving. After all, they are terrorists.

[Korriken]

Reports said security officials identified the bomber as the bodyguard of a Sunni MP. The blast came shortly after at least 10 people were killed by a suicide truck bomb on a major bridge in the capital.

that explains HOW they managed to pull it off.

[Memorize]

At 4/12/07 07:53 PM, Bolo wrote:

The fact that this is one of the most heavily guarded buildings in the country is what should amaze YOU.

It's been 4 years with people using car bombs and terrorizing civilians and this comes as a shock to you?

Huh, interesting.

[Der-Ubermensch]

America needs to pull out.. Westerners shedding blood to "save" the middle east is a folly in itself. What more proof do we need that enlightenment is beyond the intellectual and moral scope of these people? I can't help but evoke the metaphor of the animal that would shit in it's own bed.

Couldn't we possibly be content in destroying/containing the threat of extremism WITHOUT so much wasted humanitarianism? Some of our own people are poverty stricken, lacking in education and struck by the bane of various illnesses. This whole middle eastern venture (Afghanistan/Iraq) is a waste of resources, period.

[Memorize]

At 4/12/07 08:51 PM, Der-Ubermensch wrote:

Couldn't we possibly be content in destroying/containing the threat of extremism WITHOUT so much wasted humanitarianism? Some of our own people are poverty stricken, lacking in education and struck by the bane of various illnesses. This whole middle eastern venture (Afghanistan/Iraq) is a waste of resources, period.

And that's the problem with your entire arguement! "We need to take care of our problems!", the problem here is that no matter what the progress, WE ALWAYS HAVE PROBLEMS. Guess what? Unemployment isn't going to change, poverty isn't going to change, illness isn't going to change just because we're in Iraq. Iraq is seperate than EVERY one of these issues.

You complain about war spending, yet you refuse to stop spending billions a year on underperforming agencies and interest groups.

You're a selfish, gullible, hypocritical, bigot. Period.

At 4/12/07 08:51 PM, Der-Ubermensch wrote: Typical moronic bitching.

Have you converted to islam yet? Cause when they come (and they inevitably will) to your front lawn you better just say yes.

[Inganno]

At 4/12/07 08:51 PM, Der-Ubermensch wrote: America needs to pull out.. Westerners shedding blood to "save" the middle east is a folly in itself. What more proof do we need that enlightenment is beyond the intellectual and moral scope of these people? I can't help but evoke the metaphor of the animal that would shit in it's own bed.

Couldn't we possibly be content in destroying/containing the threat of extremism WITHOUT so much wasted humanitarianism? Some of our own people are poverty stricken, lacking in education and struck by the bane of various illnesses. This whole middle eastern venture (Afghanistan/Iraq) is a waste of resources, period.

I notice your username. Nietzsche fan?

You forget why we went into Iraq. It wasn't because of WMDs. That was part of it, but the real reason is just that Sadaam was a threat and we had a few damn good reasons to invade.

I take it your an advocate of at least national egoism. So, take this into account; would it really be in our best interest to withdraw?

From a consequentialist's standpoint (which would be exactly what the sort of egoism you seem to entail advocates), here are some possibilities to consider:

1.) We end up super-sizing Iran. Or at the very least, create another one. If we pull out, the terrorists, the religous extremists, the radicals will win, and will establish ANOTHER tyrannical state that will be a threat to our existence, ultimately because it will be founded upon a hatred of the U.S.
2.) Consider the perpetuation of the image of the U.S. as a paper tiger. Bin Laden himself said of the attack of 9/11 that part of the motivation was the belief that the U.S. would not strike back due to the the withdrawal from Somalia. A withdrawal from Iraq would send a message of weakness that we cannot afford.
3.) Consider practicality. If we stay through to the end, Iraq will become a valuable ally in the Middle East, as will Afghanistan; however, should we withdraw, we would surely suffer the two consequences mentioned above.

Cost-benefit analysis, my "overman" friend...

[Inganno]

By the way, Kant owns the Hell out of Nietzsche.

[Irelevent-tree]

its not what happened that bothers me its what will happen. GWB will be blamed for absolutely everything. also, iraqis will lose hope in us and iran will gather the courage to accomplish a "stunt" if you will.

[Irelevent-tree]

america needs to pull out for a year or so, see what happens in that year, and then pull back in if need be

[SuperDeagle]

At 4/12/07 10:15 PM, Irelevent-tree wrote: america needs to pull out for a year or so, see what happens in that year, and then pull back in if need be

umm? no...
that would be the worst plan ever

[Inganno]

At 4/12/07 10:22 PM, SuperDeagle wrote:

At 4/12/07 10:15 PM, Irelevent-tree wrote: america needs to pull out for a year or so, see what happens in that year, and then pull back in if need be

umm? no...
that would be the worst plan ever

The suckage would be over nine-thousand. And I mean that for seriously.

[Der-Ubermensch]

I see my comments, perhaps overly contained, were misinterpreted. I feel that we western nations are wasting our time in being overly indulgent. Supplanting a government is one thing, but altering entrenched ideology is a colossal endeavor.

This was no orchestrated coup d'etat..but a failed conquest.

If you want to crush the will of an enemy nation, at least do it right.

The harm has been done, but many pig-headed leaders still refuse to lose face and admit that this is a hopeless task. We're not making any friends over in that cesspool of barbarism, so why not actually BECOME the demons they make us out to be?

Love it or hate it.. We're at war.

[Memorize]

At 4/12/07 10:48 PM, Der-Ubermensch wrote:

This was no orchestrated coup d'etat..but a failed conquest.

History tends to highly disagree with you.

[Der-Ubermensch]

At 4/12/07 10:49 PM, Memorize wrote:

At 4/12/07 10:48 PM, Der-Ubermensch wrote:

This was no orchestrated coup d'etat..but a failed conquest.

History tends to highly disagree with you.

A history written by Zionist propaganda machines, perhaps. I couldn't care less.

[Memorize]

At 4/12/07 10:53 PM, Der-Ubermensch wrote:

A history written by Zionist propaganda machines, perhaps. I couldn't care less.

Unfounded excuses? Typical.

[Inganno]

At 4/12/07 10:53 PM, Der-Ubermensch wrote:

At 4/12/07 10:49 PM, Memorize wrote:

At 4/12/07 10:48 PM, Der-Ubermensch wrote:

This was no orchestrated coup d'etat..but a failed conquest.

History tends to highly disagree with you.

A history written by Zionist propaganda machines, perhaps. I couldn't care less.

Nietzsche hates you.

...Okay, that's not saying much at all, BUT... Well, you get it.

That's the exact kind of anti-Semitism that Nietzsche was so adamantly against.

[Der-Ubermensch]

At 4/12/07 10:55 PM, Inganno wrote:

That's the exact kind of anti-Semitism that Nietzsche was so adamantly against.

No one man holds all the answers.

[Inganno]

At 4/12/07 10:57 PM, Der-Ubermensch wrote:

At 4/12/07 10:55 PM, Inganno wrote:

That's the exact kind of anti-Semitism that Nietzsche was so adamantly against.

No one man holds all the answers.

I just find it funny that the philosopher you get your username from would be opposed to the point you made. That's all.

[Der-Ubermensch]

At 4/12/07 11:08 PM, Inganno wrote:

At 4/12/07 10:57 PM, Der-Ubermensch wrote:

At 4/12/07 10:55 PM, Inganno wrote:

That's the exact kind of anti-Semitism that Nietzsche was so adamantly against.

No one man holds all the answers.

I just find it funny that the philosopher you get your username from would be opposed to the point you made. That's all.

Life is so full of blatant contradictions. Keeps things interesting, no? ;)

[Inganno]

At 4/12/07 11:10 PM, Der-Ubermensch wrote: Life is so full of blatant contradictions. Keeps things interesting, no? ;)

I'd hardly call an intersting contention a valid one on that premise :]

[SuperDeagle]

At 4/12/07 11:12 PM, Inganno wrote:

At 4/12/07 11:10 PM, Der-Ubermensch wrote: Life is so full of blatant contradictions. Keeps things interesting, no? ;)

I'd hardly call an intersting contention a valid one on that premise :]

Uhh? I concur, but am displeased...

[Der-Ubermensch]

At 4/12/07 11:12 PM, Inganno wrote:

At 4/12/07 11:10 PM, Der-Ubermensch wrote: Life is so full of blatant contradictions. Keeps things interesting, no? ;)

I'd hardly call an intersting contention a valid one on that premise :]

Heh.. I make no claims to the contrary.

[Bolo]

At 4/12/07 08:23 PM, Memorize wrote:

At 4/12/07 07:53 PM, Bolo wrote:

The fact that this is one of the most heavily guarded buildings in the country is what should amaze YOU.

It's been 4 years with people using car bombs and terrorizing civilians and this comes as a shock to you?

Huh, interesting.

The nature of the attack is not a shock to me. The fact that it occurred in the "green" Zone—the heart of American support—and in the Iraqi Parliament (the beacon of hope for that country's future) is what shocks, and perhaps bothers me.

[Memorize]

At 4/13/07 01:15 AM, Bolo wrote:

The nature of the attack is not a shock to me. The fact that it occurred in the "green" Zone—the heart of American support—and in the Iraqi Parliament (the beacon of hope for that country's future) is what shocks, and perhaps bothers me.

And it shouldn't. After all, it's you guys who keep complaining about how "war-torn" it is no matter what the progress. Also, only 1 person died, and the only real mess was of the cafe.

[Der-Ubermensch]

At 4/13/07 09:49 AM, Memorize wrote:

At 4/13/07 01:15 AM, Bolo wrote:

The nature of the attack is not a shock to me. The fact that it occurred in the "green" Zone—the heart of American support—and in the Iraqi Parliament (the beacon of hope for that country's future) is what shocks, and perhaps bothers me.

And it shouldn't. After all, it's you guys who keep complaining about how "war-torn" it is no matter what the progress. Also, only 1 person died, and the only real mess was of the cafe.

Wow.. Discrediting an attack of this importance and potential magnitude shows how much of a tool you really are. If the sheer fact that the stronghold of the American presence in Iraq was so easily violated doesn't phase you at all, you're clearly beyond any measure of reason.

[uhnoesanoob]

Hey uber? Guess what? We do not take too kindly to racism here, so GTFO.