Newgrounds.com — Everything, By Everyone.

At 5/26/07 07:30 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

You get that? Americans make more money than British people. About 1/3rd more.

Uh huh. From the oh so reputable answers.com.

I dont really care wether Americans make more than me, what annoys me is that you think this makes you superior somehow... That because Americans can stand tall and say "we earn more" that this is the next logical step in evolution, therefore all other humans are now subordinate. So long as Ive got enough cash to cover the bills, Im happy. Id rather do the work I do now for the money I get now, than have a high paid job I hate just to say "w00t I > U!"

Thing is there are a higher percentage of ultra-rich people in the States so for a more even view of a countries average income, remove the top and bottom 5 or 10% of earners. The weighting will be making a huge impact.

And on the point of everything being in USD, (aside from the site probably being run by an American [Duh!]) the dollar was an established baseline currency when America was dominant. Same as how English is the language of business, and whatnot, despite there being more speakers of mandarin Chinese. Britain used to be a superpower and thats left its mark. Again, just because youve got the USD as an international base currency, doesnt make you superior.

Dammit man you seemed to be rational for a while, but now you've gone off on your [ America > everything > U ] tangent again.

At 5/27/07 07:36 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

...Yet we are still doing well and still have the worlds most competitive economy. You can't blame economic performance on crap like that.

And you cant claim to have a booming economy through strength of trade etc.

Source

"... there’s a very real chance that the US will be in recession before the year is out."

" Former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan puts the odds at one in three.."

Caused by.....

"..slashing interest rates indiscriminately every time a minor slowdown threatened the American economy.."

"... with inflation still uncomfortably high – in no small part down to petrol prices - the Fed will find it hard to justify cutting interest rates to give consumers any relief..."

Your economy isnt as competitive as you think. And im not saying this because I think it makes the Uk look better, indeed what bodes ill for the US bodes ill for mostly the rest of the financial world.

At 5/27/07 10:15 PM, Boltrig wrote:

At 5/26/07 07:30 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

You get that? Americans make more money than British people. About 1/3rd more.

Uh huh. From the oh so reputable answers.com.

Yeah, that's why you check the sources at the bottom. I've LOVE for you to provide some proof that Brits make more Americans if you're going to question my sources. But I know you won't, because you know the figures I provided were correct.

I dont really care wether Americans make more than me, what annoys me is that you think this makes you superior somehow...

I didn't say that. All I did was disprove some retarded Englishman whose utter ignorance of economics cause him to profess with confidence something that is entirely untrue.

That because Americans can stand tall and say "we earn more" that this is the next logical step in evolution, therefore all other humans are now subordinate.

Wow you're pathetic. This isn't about some grandiose comparison.

It is entirely reasonable to prove that Americans make more when some stupid, educated Brit was suggesting falsely that the UK is better because they supposedly make more.

:So long as Ive got enough cash to cover the bills, Im happy. Id rather do the work I do now for the money I get now, than have a high paid job I hate just to say "w00t I > U!"

Wow, good for you. I'm glad you're an underachiever and are content with it. But you're trying to make this personal, you're trying desperately, once again, to find some way of making this thread about me vs. you again. You have to ignore the actual context in which I said what I did. So all of a sudden you're talking about lifestyle and your own personal taste.

Thing is there are a higher percentage of ultra-rich people in the States so for a more even view of a countries average income, remove the top and bottom 5 or 10% of earners. The weighting will be making a huge impact.

That still doesn't give a clear depiction. Because you have to take into account income taxes (which are much higher in the UK) as well as purchasing power. Americans have less tax on everything, so an American has even more relative wealth because he/she keeps more of their money, and products are cheaper.

And on the point of everything being in USD, (aside from the site probably being run by an American [Duh!]) the dollar was an established baseline currency when America was dominant.

America still is dominant economically. The US still has the worlds most competitive economy, the US is at the forefront. That is why the US dollar is used universally, because there is no point in trading stocks and creating data points with another currency when you'd just have to exchange it to dollars anyway because all markets are dominated by American business.

Same as how English is the language of business,and whatnot, despite there being more speakers of mandarin Chinese. Britain used to be a superpower and thats left its mark.

Um actually English became the language of Business because of the US. The US dominated the world economy throughout the 20th century. Before then, business wasn't conducted in English to the degree it is today. English may have originated in Britain and it's colonies, but the US is the reason it became as wide-spoken as it is today.

Again, just because youve got the USD as an international base currency, doesnt make you superior.

Actually it makes our economy superior. If Australia was a superior economy, then the world would be using AUD instead of USD. People use the dollar because the US is at the forefront of the world economy, it would be pointless and counterproductive to use a different currency.

Dammit man you seemed to be rational for a while, but now you've gone off on your [ America > everything > U ] tangent again.

No, you're so fucking pathetic that you have to pretend that I was saying that to help you ignore the fact that I proved something that YOU don't want to hear.

Someone says something wrong, I correct them with FACTS. And since these facts damage your little false perception of the world you have to react defensively and automatically start basing your point on personal matters.

At 5/27/07 10:26 PM, Boltrig wrote:

At 5/27/07 07:36 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

...Yet we are still doing well and still have the worlds most competitive economy. You can't blame economic performance on crap like that.

And you cant claim to have a booming economy through strength of trade etc.

Source

"... there’s a very real chance that the US will be in recession before the year is out."

That would be temporary even if it did happen. Meanwhile, many EU countries are in continual recession. The US economy has ups and downs, but the US economic growth rate for 2006 was 3.3%, the highest out of any major industrialized nation.

Your economy isnt as competitive as you think.

You obviously don't know shit about economics. That is all speculation, and even if those things came true, it doesn't really depict the whole picture. Recession is usually temporary in the US, then followed by an immediate boom. As happened in the mid 90s and earlier this decade.

And anyway, the USactually is he most competitive economy. It is #1 on the list of the most competitive countries. As it has been for the past 14 years.

If you want more detail read this.

And the UK is in 20th place, by the way.

Um, seeing as we're on the subject of the U.S.'s economy, can I ask something?

I've recently heard that some analysts predict the U.S. will have another stock market crash, this one even worse than the last. Can someone (an unbiased American who actually understands our economy, please) assuage my bone-rattling fear of this?

At 5/26/07 07:30 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 5/26/07 10:08 AM, cookie wrote:

At 5/26/07 08:50 AM, Boltrig wrote: The average annual wages in the U.S. are $36,764 > ~£18,500
The average annual wages in the U.K. are £22,000 > ~$40,000

Your figures are way of.

The average American wage is $£32,000, this figure is from wikipedia.

You stupid little kid. You put a dollar sign infront of the British pound sign. That doesn't make it dollars, that means it's $32,000 pounds, when converted is around $63,000. If that was, in fact the actual number you found.

Looks like your the fucking moron "$32,000 pounds" is what you have just put. And i meant 32,000 DOLLARS NOT POUNDS AND MY CALCULATIONS ARE CORRECT.

Also GDP is not a reliable method of measuring wealth as it does not take into account income inequality, there are very few in America who earn the big $$$$$$ who bring up the average while there are millions living in near poverty who dont come close to the average. The case is not the same for the UK as there is a far less of the mega rich and more of a diamond income pyramid. So dont throw those crappy stats at me you stupid American, dont they teach geography over there?

omg your ignorance, America does not have the most competitive economy and hasn't had it for the last 10 years. When we look at some un bias statistics:

http://www.weforum.org/pdf/Global_Competitive ness_Reports/Reports/gcr_2006/top50.pdf

from the world economic forum we see that America has the 6th most competitive and the UK has the 10th, however the numbers are so close you can hardly say that one is much further ahead of the other.

ALSO, my source for the US average income was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average_joe.

Whoever was talking about immigration - you have taken what i said about people not wanting to move to america out of context, i was talking about people from Britian - 800,000 is actually very low considering the UK takes in nearly 600,000 and the country is much smaller than America, you dont even have an open economy, "free market economy" as longa as you live in the USA, get rid of your protectionist policies and come play with the big boys then...

and finally, your saying we pay to much tax? We have a free health service, the most advanced police force in the world - much better than your corrupt system, we have safer roads, a queen to look after, and social welfare that you couldn't dream of in the USA.

Reasons why the UK is much better than the USA:
We give a shit about the environment - we talk to other countries about it and sign agreements and set laws.

We dont have a huge ready made market to sell our goods/services too - we have to sell them abroad, making us alot more diverse and less dependant on certain industries.

We get more holidays - http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922052.html

More countries like us - everyone hates america because they are self centred and arragant towards everyone they deal with, soon when China is the new super power you will have very few friends and find yourself isolated where as we wont because we have built bonds with countries in the far east.

Our minimum wage is higher as well, - usa - US$5.15 per hour UK - $10.60

Uk economy isn't going into a downward spiral of deprivation. Unlike the USA who are way over due for a large crash.

We dont have to pay for our health service or get an expensive insurance policy

At 5/28/07 12:16 PM, cookie wrote: Reasons why the UK is much better than the USA:
We give a shit about the environment - we talk to other countries about it and sign agreements and set laws.

The Bush Administration doesn't give a shit about the environment, not the American people. And look at the efforts of Al Gore, Arnold Schwartzenhaeger, and others (not even gonna try for the spelling).

We dont have a huge ready made market to sell our goods/services too - we have to sell them abroad, making us alot more diverse and less dependant on certain industries.

Are we supposed to not have a large population with a decent amount of disposable income? I don't get how having a lot of in-country consumers could possibly be a bad thing.

We get more holidays - http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922052.html

In the grand scheme of things, there is nothing more important than this.

More countries like us - everyone hates america because they are self centred and arragant towards everyone they deal with, soon when China is the new super power you will have very few friends and find yourself isolated where as we wont because we have built bonds with countries in the far east.

Wow. You're such a hypocrite, saying "Ach, you arrogant Americans are so self-centered and ignorant!" yet you're completely generalizing. You know nothing about most American people.

And guess what, if our government wants to be a little assertive in our political and economic dealings, so be it. We ARE the world's only remaining superpower, after all (not for long, but still...)

Also, if I'm not mistaken, I believe it's the British who are too uppity and self-centered to switch to the fucking Euro. Bah-zing.

Of course, assertiveness is one thing, outright aggressive reckless stupidity is another. That would yet agagin be the Bush Administration, though, NOT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

Our minimum wage is higher as well, - usa - US$5.15 per hour UK - $10.60

Assuming that's a real fact, whatever, you win this one.

Uk economy isn't going into a downward spiral of deprivation. Unlike the USA who are way over due for a large crash.

Actually, the entire world economy is going into a downward spiral of deprivation except for China, India, and other developing countries.

You do realize that well over 10 U.K.'s (wildly estimated) could fit inside the U.S.? Don't you think that maybe, just maybe, it'd cost a bit more to provide important services to that many more people?

Also, the U.S. is one of the only countries on Earth that has always paid back all its debts in full. I'm sure we'll do it this time.

We dont have to pay for our health service or get an expensive insurance policy

You also get to have cheap government-paid-for doctors and medicine, plus you get to wait forever and ever and ever for the paperwork to get around the beaurocracy so you can actually get the health care you need. Yay!

Ooh, and it's not as "free" as you think. This kind of shit costs taxpayers' dollars.

God, Adonai, Buddha, Vishnu, Allah, Jupiter, Zeus, Rah, Jah, Science, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster Bless America.

If you don't like it, then stop being the U.S.'s lapdog.

I actually like America *gets shot*

Even though Belgium has shitty TV shows, it is a Terrorist-free country.
Also, i like french fries. Stupid Frenchmen, proving that french fries is theirs...

At 4/9/07 09:11 PM, Errormatix wrote:

Europe kicks america in the shins.

I have been to Europe, and it isn't all that great either. It is a bit like the USA, but everything is older, shittier, and a bit more expensive. And tons of sick minded people, at least on the same level as the USA.

At 5/28/07 11:53 AM, cookie wrote: Whoever was talking about immigration

*Raises hand*

- you have taken what i said about people not wanting to move to america out of context, i was talking about people from Britian

That or you worded it very shittily.

- 800,000 is actually very low considering the UK takes in nearly 600,000

First, jackass, it was 850,000 and not 800,000. Second, this is from the Mexican border alone and not including all the other types of illegal aliens. So your spinning will do nothing.

and the country is much smaller than America,

Your attempts to save your penis-envy of the US is pitiful at best. Stupid asshole, it doesn't matter the size of the country, it's the system that attracts all the immigrants. If I use your logic then it would go something like this America is bigger than England, therefore, the US would have more immigrants, China is bigger than the US, therefore, China will have more immigrants. You can see how idiotic this reasoning is. The point is more people migrate to the US because they perceive it is the best country in the world.

you dont even have an open economy, "free market economy"

A free economy has the elements of an open economy. Dee dee dee

as longa as you live in the USA, get rid of your protectionist policies and come play with the big boys then...

Oh right, that's why we have an economy exceeding 13 trillion a year. How much is England economy? Take your smug attitude and shove it, twat. You don't have anything to brag about.

At 5/28/07 11:56 AM, cookie wrote:

and finally, your saying we pay to much tax?

Yes, we were arguing who gets to shop more and I pointed out you are taxed alot more, as a result, you would naturally have alot less spending money than americans do.

We have a free health service,

Which is shit compared to private healthcare.

the most advanced police force in the world

Are they allowed to have guns or can they only use billy clubs?

- much better than your corrupt system,

You really need to change your tampon.

we have safer roads,

We don't need safer roads when we drive manly SUVs. So go back to drinking tea and playing crickets, old chap.

a queen to look after,

Who gives a shit? That is honestly the most idiotic reason I've ever heard to be jealous of England.

and social welfare that you couldn't dream of in the USA.

Sorry, we americans are actually self-reliant and don't depend on the government to give us a free ride. Especially since the contributing americans don't need social welfare. Fuck, dude, if I were you I'd be ashamed of the fact we have the best welfare to begin with. It indicates how you subsidize social parasites.

You have a serious case of penis-envy, old chap.

At 4/9/07 09:11 PM, Errormatix wrote:

I have been to Europe, and it isn't all that great either. It is a bit like the USA, but everything is older, shittier, and a bit more expensive. And tons of sick minded people, at least on the same level as the USA.

Shittier? Very detailed description, asshole. Hey, did i tell you that there are less people getting shot everyday in Europe? And Europe has less "sick minded" people than the rest of the world, sick minded people are pedophiles, racists, all those kinds of people.

At 5/28/07 04:48 PM, JakeHero wrote:

At 5/28/07 11:53 AM, cookie wrote: Whoever was talking about immigration

*Raises hand*

- you have taken what i said about people not wanting to move to america out of context, i was talking about people from Britian

That or you worded it very shittily.

- 800,000 is actually very low considering the UK takes in nearly 600,000

First, jackass, it was 850,000 and not 800,000. Second, this is from the Mexican border alone and not including all the other types of illegal aliens. So your spinning will do nothing.

and the country is much smaller than America,

Your attempts to save your penis-envy of the US is pitiful at best. Stupid asshole, it doesn't matter the size of the country, it's the system that attracts all the immigrants. If I use your logic then it would go something like this America is bigger than England, therefore, the US would have more immigrants, China is bigger than the US, therefore, China will have more immigrants. You can see how idiotic this reasoning is. The point is more people migrate to the US because they perceive it is the best country in the world.

Why are you so thick? Americas pop is massive compared to Britian, you said it yourself yet they only take in 800,000 LEGAL immigrants a year compared to 600,000 by a much much smaller country, which by your logic actually means the UK has the better system thats attracting all the migrants.

Also.

Man this kid is so fucking stupid.

Everything is better then America because I'm a retarded 13 year old wanna be anarchist who pretends to be a total bad ass.

At 5/28/07 11:53 AM, cookie wrote: omg your ignorance, America does not have the most competitive economy and hasn't had it for the last 10 years. When we look at some un bias statistics:

That's most competitive in global trade, not in overall economics.

from the world economic forum we see that America has the 6th most competitive and the UK has the 10th, however the numbers are so close you can hardly say that one is much further ahead of the other.

You see how utterly pathetic you are? You provided a statistic that shows the US is ahead of the UK. Then you downplay the stats you yourself provided by suggesting that it doesn't say one is further than the other, even though it does. Get a CLUE:

The US is the WORLD'S MOST COMPETITIVE ECONOMY. If you don't find that to be a credible source, then take a look at an article from YOUR OWN BRITISH news organization, the BBC.. Obviously it's credible if a liberal British news agency would repeat the findings. The US has been ranked as the worlds most competitive economy for the last 14 years. Get a glimpse of reality.

Whoever was talking about immigration - you have taken what i said about people not wanting to move to america out of context, i was talking about people from Britian - 800,000 is actually very low considering the UK takes in nearly 600,000 and the country is much smaller than America

First of all, you didn't prove that the UK takes in nearly 600,000 a year. You didn't because it was another one of your LIES. Take a look at the FACTS:

In 2006 only 154,090 people became UK citizens. That's about 1/5th of the amount of people that became US citizens in 2006 (>700,000). This is almost EXACTLY proportionate to our population. The US has 300 million people, the UK has 61 million. About 1/5.

Secondly, the amount of people becoming citizens of the US would be greater if we didn't have to lessen the amount in order to deal with the millions of ILLEGAL immigrants entering our country every year., in addition to the 8-20 million illegals here already. Your country doesn't have that problem because it's a fucking Island, and well, is less desirable to live in than the US..

I find it funny that you pretend the UK is a better place to live considering there are thousands and thousands of British expatriates that are now US citizens, while it is almost unheard of for Americans to become British citizens.

you dont even have an open economy, "free market economy" as longa as you live in the USA, get rid of your protectionist policies and come play with the big boys then...

The UK actually has FAR MORE protectionist policies economically than the US does. Your country puts tariffs on all imports, making them artificially expensive compared to your own domestic products, which boosts domestic business. The US doesn't do that for all but the most important industries such as farming for food production. The US is a far more open economy than the UK, suggesting otherwise really shows how dumb you are.

At 5/28/07 12:16 PM, cookie wrote: Reasons why the UK is much better than the USA:
We dont have a huge ready made market to sell our goods/services too - we have to sell them abroad, making us alot more diverse and less dependant on certain industries.

That actually means the UK is much more dependent on foreign trade and investment than the US is (which I will prove later).

More countries like us - everyone hates america because they are self centred and arragant

Actually your country is only less hated because it's less powerful than the US, and seen as less of an obstacle due to its lesser power. Your country isn't the focal point of hatred only because you are seen as subservient to the US, you're America's lapdog, therefore it would be pointless to direct much hatred to your country. And it's funny that right after you give a bunch of false nonsense to pretend your country is superior, you call Americans arrogant. Americans are proud based on facts, you're arrogant and proud based on the misconceptions and lies keep spewing.

We dont have to pay for our health service or get an expensive insurance policy

Your healthcare isn't free. Your government provides it with compulsory tax revenue. Your government provides you with a mediocre, one-size-fits-all health care plan that you have no control over. Americans have the choice of what health care we want, we can choose our doctors, choose our coverage, and can personalize and modify our coverage while our SUPERIOR medical industry competes over us, thus striving for excellence. Your doctors and medical professionals receive previously set government salaries regardless of how they perform, therefore they have no incentive to provide the best product.

See how that works? Our country gives us more choices. Your government takes away your choices by taking away your money and distributing it as it sees fit. Meanwhile, you stupid Brits actually have inferior medical care, as displayed by your dreadful state of dentistry and orthodontia.

Moving on. Take a look at this.

- Britain has a ridiculously high illiteracy rate.

- The US has MUCH better Universities, and dominates the top lists.

- Americans are far more productive than British in the workplace, producing more per hour worked. Thus dispelling the "Americans are lazy" myth.

- The US is FAR more independent than Britain economically. A much smaller proportion of the US economy is dependent on imports/exports and foreign investment than the British economy is. Therefore the US has a stronger, more self-sufficient economy.

- The US has a HIGHER proportion of international immigrants than the UK does. 12% of the US population is comprised of international immigrants, while only 9% of Britain's population is.

- Americans have a much higher educational attainment than British. A higher proportion of Americans receive intermediate and high levels of education than Brits do.

UK Military Inferiority and Dependence on US

- The EU and the UK specifically are dependent on the US for both civilian and military GPS. They can't operate their entire militaries or their commercial transportation without US-provided access to satellites.

- Together, the entire combined capabilities of all the militaries of the European Union (including the UK military) have only 10% of the capabilities the US has (look at figure ix).

- UK is dependent on the US for its nuclear deterrent. This has been admitted officially by your Parliament.

- All the missiles, warheads, maintenance, and function of the British nuclear arsenal is dependent on the US. All nuclear missiles based in the UK are under US control.

Where's your pride now? You delusional, misinformed, living/breathing testament of the negative byproduct of inferior British education. Not only is your country inferior, but it is America's lapdog. Quit biting the hand that feeds you.

you've been owned brutally

The only thing that really bothers me (that Cellardoor has been point out the entire thread)...

Yes, I myself, have dealt with many British people. Their views on America is so unfounded and biased that basically they make us look like world controlling dogs... they even make us seem "intolerant, and racist" at times. The sheer amount of hypocritical statements that a typical European spits out is phenomenal. It wouldn't bother me so much if the arguments they threw out were legitimate. I like how they call us "uneducated and stupid." Hah..lol,

At 5/28/07 11:36 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 5/28/07 11:53 AM, cookie wrote:

A shit load of stuff.

Dude, tell me, have you EVER failed a essay before?

If you say no, you're not truthing.

At 5/29/07 03:59 AM, DemonsRemorse wrote:

Dude, tell me, have you EVER failed a essay before?

I don't know if you were asking me or cookie, but no I've never failed an essay.

FACT: THE BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD ALL COMES DOWN TO OPINION AND THE VALUES AN INDIVIDUAL HOLDS!

Example:

Cellador believes that the US is supreme based upon his belief that a strong economy and military make the country great. I believe that quality of life and human development re what makes a nation great, therefore I believe that Norway is the best nation as they top the rankings in this field.

We'd be making two completely different arguments were we to start arguing. Neither of us hold the same values, so its pointless.

There is no set definition of what makes a nation great, and therefore there is no set way to state that a nation is inferior or superior.

At 5/30/07 04:35 AM, Tri-Nitro-Toluene wrote: FACT: THE BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD ALL COMES DOWN TO OPINION AND THE VALUES AN INDIVIDUAL HOLDS!

Example:

Cellador believes that the US is supreme based upon his belief that a strong economy and military make the country great.

First of all, I didn't even say that. That is only one part of it. I made the case that the US is economically superior to the UK because cookie pretended that the UK was superior in that aspect, but it's not. And that was proven. I only mixed in the fact that the US is militarily superior and that the UK military is dependent on the US as a sort of "salt on the wounds" tactic because cookie is a total douche.

I believe that quality of life and human development re what makes a nation great, therefore I believe that Norway is the best nation as they top the rankings in this field.

I think that quality of life and human development is a good thing too. And the US scores very high on the HDI (human development index that you're referring to) considering the circumstances (high population, large size, geographic position, illegal immigration, racial makeup etc..).

However, the HDI doesn't mean much without understanding the details.The UN finds a country's HDI by calculating a few factors, for example; life expectancy. The US is lower than Norway in that aspect because of racial differences. Norwegians have genetics in which long life is common, regardless of the quality of medical care. The US has a high proportion of ethnicities where average life expectancy is much shorter: blacks, Hispanics etc. Yet white Americans have the same life expectancy as white Norwegians. So in that case, if Norwegians came to the US, and only their areas of the country were calculated to the HDI, it could intentionally be higher than Norway due to other, impersonal, outside factors.

You get what I'm saying? So you can't really judge a country's providence of quality of life based on the HDI. Because the HDI is not relative to circumstance, and doesn't gauge the ability of a country to produce those certain things that are deemed positive. It only judges the people who live there, which can be indicative of things that are entirely outside of the control of the society as a whole.

So HDI doesn't really mean anything without context.

There is no set definition of what makes a nation great, and therefore there is no set way to state that a nation is inferior or superior.

There is a set way of proving a nation is superior in a certain aspect when that aspect is the focal point of the debate. Someone says "The UK is better because Britons make more money." I proved this wrong. But this doesn't mean that I base my entire view that America is superior on social economics. My view that America is superior is based on many things that are entirely abstract that can't be proven. But I will, however, make the facts known when someone falsely suggests that their country is superior in tangible aspects when I know they are full of shit.

At 5/30/07 05:23 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: First of all, I didn't even say that. That is only one part of it. I made the case that the US is economically superior to the UK because cookie pretended that the UK was superior in that aspect, but it's not. And that was proven. I only mixed in the fact that the US is militarily superior and that the UK military is dependent on the US as a sort of "salt on the wounds" tactic because cookie is a total douche.

I know you didn't say that I was just using it as an example.

I think that quality of life and human development is a good thing too. And the US scores very high on the HDI (human development index that you're referring to) considering the circumstances (high population, large size, geographic position, illegal immigration, racial makeup etc..).

Very true, but I was just making a blatant generalisation based on what you've said in this thread to make my point. I wasn't criticising you.

So HDI doesn't really mean anything without context.

Neither does GDP as it doesn't take the distribution of wealth into account, but that doesn't stop lots of people using it.

Again I am aware of this, I was using HDI as an example as its something that pretty much anyone with a half brain cell has heard of.

I know its flawed. There is no such thing as a perfect ranking system, but for the point I was making, HDI was the best to use.

There is a set way of proving a nation is superior in a certain aspect when that aspect is the focal point of the debate.

Within a certain aspect yes. But the vast majority of this thread is ' THIS COUNTRY IS BETTER IN GENERAL LOLZ'

My view that America is superior is based on many things that are entirely abstract that can't be proven.

Hence why I find debates like this thread pointless.

But I will, however, make the facts known when someone falsely suggests that their country is superior in tangible aspects when I know they are full of shit.

And rightly so, though I will point out you've done the exact same thing in making a false suggestion.

At 5/28/07 11:36 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: - Britain has a ridiculously high illiteracy rate.

USA

total population: 99%
male: 99%
female: 99% (2003 est.)

FOR THE UK

total population: 99%
male: 99%
female: 99% (2003 est.)

SOURCE

Both the UK and the US have the same literacy rate so you can't use that as an indicator of tangible superiority.

At 5/30/07 06:54 AM, Tri-Nitro-Toluene wrote:

At 5/30/07 05:23 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: I think that quality of life and human development is a good thing too. And the US scores very high on the HDI (human development index that you're referring to) considering the circumstances (high population, large size, geographic position, illegal immigration, racial makeup etc..).

So HDI doesn't really mean anything without context.

Neither does GDP as it doesn't take the distribution of wealth into account, but that doesn't stop lots of people using it.

I didn't use GDP alone, I used GDP per capita PPP, which is the GDP divided by the population then calculated with a few variables that determine the purchasing power parity.

Distribution of wealth is incredibly hard to calculate on monetary terms alone. So even if the average wage in the UK is higher when both currencies are converted to the same currency to compare (can't find stats for average wage), that doesn't take into account tax differences, tax returns, accessibility to loans, abundance of inexpensive products, market accessibility etc..

So I think the most accurate way to determine relative wealth is to compare GDP per capita (PPP). And the US has 1/3rd more purchasing power per person nationwide.

Again I am aware of this, I was using HDI as an example as its something that pretty much anyone with a half brain cell has heard of.

I can assure you that at most 20% of people that post in the politics forum are aware of the HDI. They may have heard "oh Canada was ranked higher on some UN thingy" but they don't understand the whole context of that study, and what it actually implies. So I felt the need to clarify the fact that the HDI isn't a solid indicator of human development.

My view that America is superior is based on many things that are entirely abstract that can't be proven.

Hence why I find debates like this thread pointless.

I don't, because my real patriotic feelings are separate from this thread. But what this thread does do is allows me to crush the myths that non-Americans have. I take joy in it. I don't feel I'm in a nation dick-measuring contest, I feel like I'm simply enlightening someone, though a little harshly.

Cookie participated in this thread, started talking whole lot of trash, said a whole bunch of lies, but then got proven wrong and caught in his lie. His anti-American misconceptions were a cornerstone of his existence apparently, then BAM, proven wrong. He hasn't come back since. But I guarantee it made him think when he saw that a lot of the things he thought and said were wrong.

But I will, however, make the facts known when someone falsely suggests that their country is superior in tangible aspects when I know they are full of shit.

And rightly so, though I will point out you've done the exact same thing in making a false suggestion.

At 5/28/07 11:36 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: - Britain has a ridiculously high illiteracy rate.

Both the UK and the US have the same literacy rate so you can't use that as an indicator of tangible superiority.

I didn't make a false suggestion, I failed to mention something by mistake.

I should have said functional illiteracy rate, which is different. Literacy is just the ability to read. The US and the UK have identical LITERACY rates. But FUNCTIONAL literacy is the ability to read comprehensively enough to fully function in society.

Go to the link I provided before I listed those things and you'll see. Or alternatively, go here, where a BBC article says 1/5 British are functionally illiterate (in 2000 though). The original link to the Economist I provided says it is 1/6, and it was more recent so we can go by that.

Thats compared to the 1 in 10 Americans that are functionally illiterate

So the literacy rate is the same in Britain and the US, but a higher proportion of the UK is functionally illiterate. The US has a higher proportion of functionally literate.

At 5/28/07 11:36 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 5/28/07 11:53 AM, cookie wrote: omg your ignorance, America does not have the most competitive economy and hasn't had it for the last 10 years. When we look at some un bias statistics:

That's most competitive in global trade, not in overall economics.

You are wrong, global trade IS the most important you have not supported what you mean by "overall economics" or any sources saying America is leading that wasn't the same as the post before you.

You retard thats UK citizenship not immigration. We take thousands and thousands more on temporary work permits/long term work permits and thats where my figures were from. Our home office is actually in a mess because it is struggling to count how many people are actually coming in illigally and legally at the moment. Our illegal imigrant problem is just as bad as the USes.

I find it funny that you pretend the UK is a better place to live considering there are thousands and thousands of British expatriates that are now US citizens, while it is almost unheard of for Americans to become British citizens.

this is not a valid point, there are thousands of Americans who claim to be British when the fact is they had a great great great uncle twice removed who lived in Britian. Also there are alot of Americans living in Britian i should know i know 3 or 4 of them personally.

No we dont we are an open economy with every country in the EU, we have hardly any import tarriffs and we get away with this because of our strong finance sector and the fact that most of the indutries here would be weakened if there were such policies, our farmers have no protection either and thus we have one of the most efficeient agricultural systems in the world.

We have a different ethos over here, power is not the centre of everything as it is in the USA. Quality of life is seen as the most important factor. Our country in general hates America, we act as the negotiator in all Americas important foriegn affairs because no-one else wants to speak to them or America is to dumb to speak to them.

We dont have to pay for our health service or get an expensive insurance policy

Your healthcare isn't free. Your government provides it with compulsory tax revenue. Your government provides you with a mediocre, one-size-fits-all health care plan that you have no control over. Americans have the choice of what health care we want, we can choose our doctors, choose our coverage, and can personalize and modify our coverage while our SUPERIOR medical industry competes over us, thus striving for excellence. Your doctors and medical professionals receive previously set government salaries regardless of how they perform, therefore they have no incentive to provide the best product.

Our health service covers everything - even lipo suction for fat loss, something that most Americans are begging for, we have a thriving medical research industry - one of the best in the world because drug companies have a solid income to work with. We also have a private industry so if we wish we can pay for the same products your getting - many of the biggest American health service providers also have services in the UK.

See how that works? Our country gives us more choices. Your government takes away your choices by taking away your money and distributing it as it sees fit. Meanwhile, you stupid Brits actually have inferior medical care, as displayed by your dreadful state of dentistry and orthodontia.

How do you explain Americas Obesitiy then? What do they do strap you to a fat drip? Your government takes away your choices by not allowing foreign companies in. - A forigner is not allowed to own more than 49% of an American business.

Moving on. Take a look at this.

- Britain has a ridiculously high illiteracy rate.

haha prove it?

- The US has MUCH better Universities, and dominates the top lists.

Considering our country is so much smaller we have 4 top 15 universities OXFORD AND CAMBRIDGE are far superior to anything in the US, and it is much cheaper for us to go to university as well.

- Americans are far more productive than British in the workplace, producing more per hour worked. Thus dispelling the "Americans are lazy" myth.

This is completely subject to the industry. We get on average more holidays then USA does.

- The US is FAR more independent than Britain economically. A much smaller proportion of the US economy is dependent on imports/exports and foreign investment than the British economy is. Therefore the US has a stronger, more self-sufficient economy.

due to the size of our population we have a very good economy and foreign investment in the UK is actually higher than in the USA and this is a very good thing. its nearly impossible for a country like Britian to be totally self suffient but its not a flaw unless your planning war with anyone, we have always benifited from our international relations which are clearly much better than the USAs

- The US has a HIGHER proportion of international immigrants than the UK does. 12% of the US population is comprised of international immigrants, while only 9% of Britain's population is.

and your contradicting yourself here, we are an island its very hard for immigrants to get in our country anyway, where as mexicans just need to walk across the boarder so think how many would be trying to get in if we boardered somewhere like mexico.

- Americans have a much higher educational attainment than British. A higher proportion of Americans receive intermediate and high levels of education than Brits do.

UK Military Inferiority and Dependence on US

UK military is superior in the form of experience in wars/peace keeping and skill SAS and our military have a much better record than the USAs - we can hit targets and keep peace where as America fire upon allies half the time. The size of our military is suffieient and we have alot of nukes, not as many as America but once you have 1 how many are you going to need?

- The EU and the UK specifically are dependent on the US for both civilian and military GPS. They can't operate their entire militaries or their commercial transportation without US-provided access to satellites.

- Together, the entire combined capabilities of all the militaries of the European Union (including the UK military) have only 10% of the capabilities the US has (look at figure ix).

again this is probably taking into account Americas HUGE unnecessairy surplus of nuclear warheads. There is no need for such a big military it just wastes money.

- UK is dependent on the US for its nuclear deterrent. This has been admitted officially by your Parliament.

Well actually we are using tridant and are updating to a new British built system. The USA and UK have worked together on nuclear weapons for 50 years or more, so your deterrent was designed and built by the UK as well. We are updating submarines soon and we have deterrents independant of the US.

- All the missiles, warheads, maintenance, and function of the British nuclear arsenal is dependent on the US. All nuclear missiles based in the UK are under US control.

No they are not. But im sure your government will tell you that.

Where's your pride now? You delusional, misinformed, living/breathing testament of the negative byproduct of inferior British education. Not only is your country inferior, but it is America's lapdog. Quit biting the hand that feeds you.

what was that? sorry, i dont speak redneck.

At 4/9/07 09:31 PM, Der-Lowe wrote: I like Norway.

eh Ireland seems pretty rocking

At 5/30/07 12:48 PM, cookie wrote:

At 5/28/07 11:36 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: That's most competitive in global trade, not in overall economics.

You are wrong, global trade IS the most important

No it's not. It's only part of it you moron.

Read this. There are 323 criteria that are calculated to find the overall competitiveness of an entire country's economy. GDP, highschool graduation rates, exports (trade), computer/internet usage etc.. You only specifically found a study that only showed global trade, which is only 1 of those 323 criteria. You HAD to do that to help cope with the fact that you're wrong, just as you are with everything. Meanwhile. the US is the world's most competitive economy.

you have not supported what you mean by "overall economics" or any sources saying America is leading that wasn't the same as the post before you.

You pathetic moron, read the links. The studies that were shown in a BBC article specifically state that it is a study finding the worlds most competitive economy, that obviously includes trade as only part of it..

"The study ranks nations by how well they create and maintain conditions favourable to business."

Business... not trade only. Business can include foreign trade/business as well as domestic market. Where's your source to prove otherwise? That's right, there is none, because everything you say is entirely false and based on your total ignorance of reality.

You retard thats UK citizenship not immigration. We take thousands and thousands more on temporary work permits/long term work permits and thats where my figures were from.

Yet once again, you didn't provide a link to prove it. Because you keep fucking lying and pulling random statistics that are entirely false out of your ass.

this is not a valid point, there are thousands of Americans who claim to be British when the fact is they had a great great great uncle twice removed who lived in Britian.

Those are people of British descent you moron. I'm talking about people who were actually born in the UK and moved to the US and became citizens, and I personally know a few. Americans would not go to the UK for that because it would be counterproductive. Why move to a shack when you live in a chateau?

Also there are alot of Americans living in Britian i should know i know 3 or 4 of them personally.

Yeah, and a lot of Americans go to Mexico to live for a while... that doesn't mean anything. I doubt these people you refer to became UK citizens. I lived in the UK for 2 months as well, but I did it for recreation as part of an entire tour of Europe. I would never, ever think about becoming a UK citizen, that would be a huge step down.

Double post

At 5/30/07 12:48 PM, cookie wrote: We have a different ethos over here, power is not the centre of everything as it is in the USA. Quality of life is seen as the most important factor.

Haha first of all, your entire original point was that the UK was more relatively economically powerful than the US. That got entirely proven wrong and know you're pretending you are better because you emphasize quality of life? Hahaha

What makes you think that your country has a higher quality of life anyway? It obviously doesn't, because in the HDI, the UK ranks lower than the US. The US is in 8th place, the UK is in 18th. This is despite the fact that your country has a lesser proportion of minorities who statistically score less on the HDI. So that's pretty detrimental to the myth that British have higher quality of life than Americans do.

And there crumbles another one of your stupid, false points.

Our country in general hates America

Well, your country loves American culture seeing as how you all watch American TV, use American products, listen to American music, watch American movies etc.. basically the foundation of your country's existence is based on the US. Now, British hate Americans out of jealousy. Your country is inferior, so you have an irrational bias that clouds your judgment in all aspects in order to help you cope with that inferiority.

Our health service covers everything.

And yet you're state of health care, dentistry, and orthodontia is absolutely horrid. You have mediocre, one-size-fits-all health care that is controlled by your government. You don't have high quality, personalized health care that most Americans have. You have an inefficient, bureaucratic central healthcare system, if you wanted to get an appointment, the government gets to decide how important it is, and can postpone your doctor visit for years.

Our system is vastly better.

How do you explain Americas Obesitiy then?

How do you explain Europes' HIGHER level of obesity? then? Countries like Germany have a higher obesity rate, but wait... don't they have universal healthcare? OMG that must mean that obesity is reflective of other variables, including race.

The US has a higher proportion of races that are statistically more likely to be obese, while white Americans are no more likely to be obese than white British. It's about racial make-up, not medical care you moron.

- Britain has a ridiculously high illiteracy rate.

haha prove it?

Um, of course you ignored the link where I did prove it. So I'll have to do it again: 1/5th (20%) of British are functionally illiterate. While 1/10th (10%) of Americans are functionally illiterate.

Considering our country is so much smaller. we have 4 top 15 universities OXFORD AND CAMBRIDGE are far superior to anything in the US, and it is much cheaper for us to go to university as well.

First of all, size of the country has nothing to do with it. China has what... 30 times the population as Canada... but Canada has a few top colleges, China doesn't.

You say Oxford and Cambridge are superior to "anything in the US". For the 100th time, you're wrong. The top 18 Universities are all American. Cambridge comes in 19th place and Oxford comes in 42nd and is beaten by Canadian and Swiss Universities.

This is completely subject to the industry. We get on average more holidays then USA does.

You don't work 20% less than the US to account for the 20% less output per hour worked you fool.

we have always benifited from our international relations which are clearly much better than the USAs

Haha that's funny because every country you are allied with, the US is allied with. You just have the luxury of having the US take the brunt of the dirty work. You'd be NOWHERE in international relations if it weren't for the US. Your country only follows the whims of the US.

UK military is superior in the form of experience... we can hit targets and keep peace where as America fire upon allies half the time.

Your country;s military had less fratricide because it didn't fucking do anything other than sweep up after the US military came through. Your country only had a small role, therefore it was never in a position to conduct large scale offensive operations where fratricide is common. Your ignorance causes you to ignore this

The size of our military is suffieient

Yeah, because the US protects you and commands your troops in large scale wars. You don't need a large military because the US is your fucking protector and scapegoat.

and we have alot of nukes, not as many as America but once you have 1 how many are you going to need?

The nukes you have are provided to you by America moron. Read the fucking links instead of ignoring the facts to perpetuate your nonsense.

The USA and UK have worked together on nuclear weapons for 50 years or more, so your deterrent was designed and built by the UK as well.

You obviously didn't read the links. Because all of the trident systems were funded, researched, designed and manufactured by the US.

No they are not. But im sure your government will tell you that.

You're absolutely delusional. YOUR GOVERNMENT admitted that the British deterrent is dependent on the US.

At 5/31/07 12:00 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: Double post

At 5/30/07 12:48 PM, cookie wrote: We have a different ethos over here, power is not the centre of everything as it is in the USA. Quality of life is seen as the most important factor.

Haha first of all, your entire original point was that the UK was more relatively economically powerful than the US. That got entirely proven wrong and know you're pretending you are better because you emphasize quality of life? Hahaha

What makes you think that your country has a higher quality of life anyway? It obviously doesn't, because in the HDI, the UK ranks lower than the US. The US is in 8th place, the UK is in 18th. This is despite the fact that your country has a lesser proportion of minorities who statistically score less on the HDI. So that's pretty detrimental to the myth that British have higher quality of life than Americans do.

And there crumbles another one of your stupid, false points.

Our country in general hates America

Well, your country loves American culture seeing as how you all watch American TV, use American products, listen to American music, watch American movies etc.. basically the foundation of your country's existence is based on the US. Now, British hate Americans out of jealousy. Your country is inferior, so you have an irrational bias that clouds your judgment in all aspects in order to help you cope with that inferiority.

Our health service covers everything.

And yet you're state of health care, dentistry, and orthodontia is absolutely horrid. You have mediocre, one-size-fits-all health care that is controlled by your government. You don't have high quality, personalized health care that most Americans have. You have an inefficient, bureaucratic central healthcare system, if you wanted to get an appointment, the government gets to decide how important it is, and can postpone your doctor visit for years.

Our system is vastly better.

How do you explain Americas Obesitiy then?

How do you explain Europes' HIGHER level of obesity? then? Countries like Germany have a higher obesity rate, but wait... don't they have universal healthcare? OMG that must mean that obesity is reflective of other variables, including race.

The US has a higher proportion of races that are statistically more likely to be obese, while white Americans are no more likely to be obese than white British. It's about racial make-up, not medical care you moron.

- Britain has a ridiculously high illiteracy rate.

haha prove it?

Um, of course you ignored the link where I did prove it. So I'll have to do it again: 1/5th (20%) of British are functionally illiterate. While 1/10th (10%) of Americans are functionally illiterate.

First of all, size of the country has nothing to do with it. China has what... 30 times the population as Canada... but Canada has a few top colleges, China doesn't.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_sty le/education/article502890.ece
if you have about a greater population then you should expect to have more top colleges because there will be more intellectuals.

You say Oxford and Cambridge are superior to "anything in the US". For the 100th time, you're wrong. The top 18 Universities are all American. Cambridge comes in 19th place and Oxford comes in 42nd and is beaten by Canadian and Swiss Universities.

"American institutions occupied seven of the top ten places, with Oxbridge the highest-ranked outside the United States.

London's position as a centre of global educational significance was confirmed with four institutions in the top 50. The London School of Economics was 11th, Imperial College 14th, University College London 34th, and the School of Oriental and African Studies 44th.

The only European university outside Britain in the top 20 was the Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich, Switzerland, in tenth place."

You don't work 20% less than the US to account for the 20% less output per hour worked you fool.

again your not listening, each industry is different and its not a useful statistic.

we have always benifited from our international relations which are clearly much better than the USAs

Haha that's funny because every country you are allied with, the US is allied with. You just have the luxury of having the US take the brunt of the dirty work. You'd be NOWHERE in international relations if it weren't for the US. Your country only follows the whims of the US.

This is not true at all, we have much closer relations with every european country, russia, china, and half of the middle east, not to mention our common wealth of nations and former colonies in Africa which leave strong links today. We are in a much better position than America on this and you cannot deny it. We don't need such a big military because we are less likely to go to war with people.

UK military is superior in the form of experience... we can hit targets and keep peace where as America fire upon allies half the time.

Your country;s military had less fratricide because it didn't fucking do anything other than sweep up after the US military came through. Your country only had a small role, therefore it was never in a position to conduct large scale offensive operations where fratricide is common. Your ignorance causes you to ignore this

are you talking about Iraq? because believe it or not there have been about 1000 other wars that the UK military has taken part in along with all the UN peace keeping. We are normally one of the first countries in and last countries out, unlike America who leave as soon as their own interests are forfilled. SAS is the best military division in the world.

The nukes you have are provided to you by America moron. Read the fucking links instead of ignoring the facts to perpetuate your nonsense.

You obviously didn't read the links. Because all of the trident systems were funded, researched, designed and manufactured by the US.

you read the links dickweed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_nuclear_weapo ns

We have 4 or 5 major nuclear research facilities around the world, one being at Aldermaston, just down the road from where im sitting right at the moment. You may think that America is the only country with any weapons but this is not true, we have 200 or so of our own nuclear missiles, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_w ith_nuclear_weapons#Estimated_worldwide_nucle ar_stockpiles

and we also have joint projects with the french, making us possibly the most protected country on earth.