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I'm tired of people who bitch about america, and say _______ is better, they need to Move, or shut up. If you think sum other country is better, MOVE. these a-holes don't realize how good they got it. If Japan is so much better than America, Move to Japan, then you'll be there for 6 years, and start bitching about Japan. Be glad you a-holes are even aloud to talk trash about our gov't, i many countries, you do that, and your found 2 days later dead in a ditch.

Free speech,my ignorant a-hole.

and america does suck,they just live here probably because they dont have the money to move to a better government.

Europe kicks america in the shins.

and yet i live in america...

*sigh*

I like Norway.

Soviet Union FTW

At 4/9/07 09:45 PM, MARINE wrote: Soviet Union FTW

*sings internationale*

Everything is better thsn america.
We suck.

And I'm betting everyone's secretly got nukes aimed at us.

At 4/9/07 09:11 PM, Errormatix wrote: and america does suck,they just live here probably because they dont have the money to move to a better government.

and yet people are able to come to america with nothing and survive and eventually grow to have very comfortable lives.

I do not think America is the best, but I dislike people saying it is the worst. America is a good country, same with the UK, Israel, Ireland, etc. We should stop making threads claiming that anything is better then anyone.

There's some pretty nifty stuff in the U.S. Some places have better standards of living (scandinavia, canada) but on a world scale we're doing pretty well.

Ain't nothin' like going to Manhattan...

So people shouldn't bitch about their government and instead move to another country, but if they do bitch they should atleast be thankful that they're allowed to bitch?
Free Speech wasn't a gift, americans only got it because after the revolution people rioted when the newly established government dropped it from the constitution, and they were forced to put it back in.
Don't thank the government for anything, demand a better world, a better life, and a better government. Criticism is necessary in any democracy, otherwise you might as well live in Zimbabwe.

I've lived in other countries and I still like the US the best. Although Germany and Ireland have a special place in my heart.

I went to Dayton Ohio once, it was creepy, but the restaurant on the military base we went to had the most amazing food and it only cost about $1.20 to eat there. Also, usa military drill is sloppy Canada roxers ur boxers!!! hehe

well since i am a god it's safe to say that Sol Invictus is better than America.

At 4/9/07 10:47 PM, ForkRobotik wrote: Also, usa military drill is sloppy Canada roxers ur boxers!!! hehe

The canadian mounties dont count as a military.

At 4/9/07 10:08 PM, DarkPhazon wrote: Everything is better thsn america.
We suck.

And I'm betting everyone's secretly got nukes aimed at us.

and for each of their nukes, we've got 50 pointed at them.....booyah!

I've never been out of the country, but through studying I can say there are a few countries I certainly would not have an interest in visiting to test this theory.....

I have two dream countries I'd love to visit though.
One is Korea, to see their breakdancers in all their glory.
The other is UK, to study classics at Cambridge.

The two others I WILL be seeing sometime are Greece and Italy of course, both of which I am told are absolutely beautiful countries.

Canada seems just like the US, at least from what I've visited (Toronto, Windsor, and a few other places). Just more colorful money and a wee bit colder than the Mitten.....

In any case, people will always feel more connection to their own country than others. And unless we argue quantitative differences, the opinion of which country is better qualitatively is totally subjective, and utterly useless to argue.

In conclusion, this thread has been done before, and is retarded.

At 4/9/07 11:30 PM, fahrenheit wrote: The canadian mounties dont count as a military.

hey, they've got the Musical Ride; don't fuck with that sort of power.

At 4/9/07 09:11 PM, Errormatix wrote:

Europe kicks america in the shins.

Only people who have never been to Europe and the US both will say that. Only people like you who have no point of rference.

Europe sucks, Americans with vivid imaginations like to pretend otherwise and lash out against the mainstream by advocating European-style society. But then you go to Europe and you realize that the majority of Europeans are selfish, dirty ass holes. Their cities are dirty, they have horrible hygiene, their food is crap, and they have no sense of humor. There is far less opportunity, far less extracurricular activities to engage in, and their society as a whole isn't as vibrant and diverse as it is in the US.

That may be a stereotype, but I've been all over Europe and I came to that conclusion based on my observation and experience. Europe is fun to visit occasionally for tourist reasons, but to live in almost any place in Europe would suck if you are used to America or Canada.

Heres an example; In the US if your car needs a jump-start, the average American guy will say "sure thing" he'll help you out, do a little chit chat, etc etc. Then when your car is running you'll offer him money and he probably won't accept it in return. Americans are nice for the most part, even if they refused to help you they aren't going to be angered and offended by the fact that you did ask them.

But if you did this in Europe and they'll tell you to fuck off and appear as if you just asked them to suck your balls. Either that or they'll demand a hefty fee for their assistance. This is a perfect example of our cultural differences. Usually the more rural Europeans are nicer, but most young urban Europeans are selfish assholes, they are brutally selfish.

Europeans are cold and have no manners for the most part. You think Europe is a social, happy utopia la la land? It's not. You think cities like Paris are beautiful romantic places filled with smiling people? Hell no it's not, it's filled with greedy, selfish, rude assholes who barely ever smile, and who would just as quickly jack your wallet as they would give you directions.

The only place in Europe I would EVER consider living is Dusseldorf, Germany because that's where I stayed as an exchange student. But the only reason they are tolerable is because they are probably the most Americanized Europeans, and therefore have adopted American behavioral patterns.

At 4/9/07 09:31 PM, Der-Lowe wrote: I like Norway.

me too i like finland too

At 4/10/07 04:20 AM, StephanosGnomon wrote:

"if you are used to America or Canada." No shit. Don't you think some young nationalistic Italian who grew up used to European culture who got the chance to go all over America would still prefer he culture he grew up in also?

No, because Italians, Spanish, French, Germans, British, Polish, etc.. tons of them come to the US and become US citizens once they have the chance. And a lot more would be coming if we didn't have the current immigration quota where we have to give priority to people from Latin America.

And your car-starting example? That's so stupid. You don't think there are neighborhoods in the U.S. where you could get fucking stabbed just for being alone and asking for a jump?

Oh sure, but I'm basing my opinion on large example, not on specifics. I'm talking about the average American vs. the average European. There are extremes on both sides. But Americans, in general, are far nicer and more generous than Europeans in my experience.

Do you honestly even believe yourself when you say some silly "Americans are nicer than Europeans" broad-type shit?

Yes, absolutely. I've experienced it myself, even before I was really old enough to have a political bias. I've been all around the world, all around the US, and all around Europe specifically as well. Europeans are some of the coldest, meanest people in my observation.

Okay, you think most Europeans are jerks, we get it. Maybe it's because, in your experience, they were all treating what they perceived to be a douchebag American sortof like how a douchebag American might treat what he perceived to be a... hmm, flappy-headed French-Canadian for example.

First of all, Americans don't treat foreigners the way Europeans treat foreigners. The US is FILLED with foreigners, we have the most ethnically diverse country in the world, not just from visitors but from citizens. The foreign exchange students we had in highschool and college both were never harassed or treated rudely by my classmates and friends. They might have been teased a little bit, but there was NEVER a malicious, psychotic outburst by an American to one of them.

However, on NUMEROUS occasions when I was touring Europe after leaving Germany when my exchange status was over, not just Americans, but Australians, Canadians, and even other Europeans were treated like SHIT by the people we ran into.

Europeans are hostile to foreigners period, even other Europeans from neighboring countries. They may tend to single out Americans, but this would never be brought on by the behavior of that individual American. It would usually consist of a "fuck you you stupid American, go home yankee" (in English) after a simple ask for directions or something of that nature.

Barely any Americans will actually just say "fuck you you French Canadian douchebag" if they were asked for simple help like directions by someone with an obvious accent. But the vast majority of Europeans react this way to foreigners, not just to Americans.

Another example I can give is when people accidentally bump into eachother on a crowded street or in a hallway or something. In America, it will usually result in someone saying "oh sorry my fault" or "pardon me" or "sorry dude" something like that. In Europe, in my experience, if this happened the native will either curse at you and keep walking without looking at you, or might lift their shoulders and square off with you even if you apologize.

It's just perspective. Yours isn't any more special due to where you've been since it's just as mottled by where you came from as everyone else's is.

Europeans admit that Europeans are assholes as well. Like I said, I stayed in Dusseldorf, and I liked those western Germans the most because they were highly Americanized, they almost all spoke English, watched American TV, and just behaved very American compared to other Europeans and even other Germans.

About 3 of my German hosts came with me and my American friends (who were also exchange students) when we went to The Netherlands, France, Switzerland and about 4 other countries minus other parts of Germany. They even admitted openly that Europeans are rude. Not all Europeans, the Swiss and the Dutch tend to be nicer as well. But most Europeans both Western and Eastern are fucking rude, unhelpful, and just hateful.

They seem reluctant to extend even the SLIGHTEST amount of courtesy or kindness. I know tehre are both kind and rude people on both sides. But I think that the typical European is rude and cold compared to the typical American, I think anyone who visits both countries and has a point of reference will come to the same conclusion.

At 4/10/07 01:32 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: Only people who have never been to Europe and the US both will say that. Only people like you who have no point of rference.

Your point of reference hardly seems to be fair.

But then you go to Europe and you realize that the majority of Europeans are selfish, dirty ass holes.

You are a bigger asshole than anyone I have ever met in the UK or any other parts of Europe I have visited.

Their cities are dirty, they have horrible hygiene, their food is crap, and they have no sense of humor. There is far less opportunity, far less extracurricular activities to engage in, and their society as a whole isn't as vibrant and diverse as it is in the US.

Steady on now, what cities in Europe have you been to? You have to understand that Europe is a continent with different cultures and languages. I'd say though that Europe as a whole is far more diverse than the US. But that's because it's a continent and there are all kinds of refugees coming in and all kinds of influences.

As for the food, that's pathetic. There are all different kinds of food, you are just basing your opinions off some bad experience where you just turned up your nose because it was 'European'.

Extra-curricular activities? Where did you go, like some shack in a deserted French village? In London there are loads of galleries, museums for tourists, stadiums for our main sports; the London Eye, parks, the list goes on. In Paris there is the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, other places like the Stade de France, the River Seine. I could go on about other cities but I think I've proven my point.

That may be a stereotype, but I've been all over Europe and I came to that conclusion based on my observation and experience. Europe is fun to visit occasionally for tourist reasons, but to live in almost any place in Europe would suck if you are used to America or Canada.

Yes, but then I probably wouldn't much like living in the US or Canada as I am used to here. It's not because either is better.

But if you did this in Europe and they'll tell you to fuck off and appear as if you just asked them to suck your balls. Either that or they'll demand a hefty fee for their assistance. This is a perfect example of our cultural differences. Usually the more rural Europeans are nicer, but most young urban Europeans are selfish assholes, they are brutally selfish.

Erm, there are extremes in both cases. Take New York. I'd like to see you ask for help there without getting a 'fuck off'. In Paris, there are some people who will look at you like mud but most will actually help you out. I like how you also stereotype a whole generation of a continent as 'selfish assholes'. I could say the same about Americans, but it doesn't make it true and I know that.

Europeans are cold and have no manners for the most part. You think Europe is a social, happy utopia la la land? It's not. You think cities like Paris are beautiful romantic places filled with smiling people? Hell no it's not, it's filled with greedy, selfish, rude assholes who barely ever smile, and who would just as quickly jack your wallet as they would give you directions.

Hoho, here we go. I knew you were talking about Paris. The word you're looking for there isn't 'like'. Paris has a reputation as a rude city, more so than anywhere else in Europe. Just like New York in America. I went to Paris a couple of years ago though and everyone there was pretty polite. Maybe it's because you are American that they may have been hostile.

The only place in Europe I would EVER consider living is Dusseldorf, Germany because that's where I stayed as an exchange student. But the only reason they are tolerable is because they are probably the most Americanized Europeans, and therefore have adopted American behavioral patterns.

Oh for fuck's sake. Like being polite is an American behavioral pattern. How many places have you actually been to in Europe?

Cellar, maybe people treat you like shit because you're a self-satisfied asshat who brings out the worst in people. I can't remember the last time someone cursed at me when I bumped into him or her on the street. I can't remember the last time I refused to help someone start his car. I've been to New York, people were a bit more into formalities I guess, when you say "thank you" they say "you're welcome" whereas in Europe they'd just nod or nod and smile. But that doesn't mean they're an inherently friendlier people.

Even in Paris, notorious for its rude inhabitants, I asked a girl for directions at the subway and an older man for the time in La Défense in my extremely lousy French and in both cases they were cordial at worst. The people at my hotel were friendly, the dude who sold me a subway ticket was friendly, only one Algerian guy sort of ignored me when I asked for directions but even he couldn't possibly compare to the miserable cock smokers that comprise the US Customs Service at JFK International Airport ("the face of the nation", pffft). When you ask Europeans for favours in English (outside Ireland or the UK) with an "I'm American and you're here to cater to my every desire" tone of voice then you won't harvest amicability, I agree. But you're the problem, not the people you meet.

I liked New York, by the way. It had its unique charm, then again, so do Paris and Hong Kong. And I couldn't pick any one of them and say "that one's the best" or "that one's the worst". And even if I could, it would be my opinion, just like your rant was just your opinion. And you're not exactly the kind of person from whom I'd expect an unbiased commentary.

At 4/10/07 05:40 AM, TheRoyalEnglishman wrote:

At 4/10/07 01:32 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: Only people who have never been to Europe and the US both will say that. Only people like you who have no point of rference.

You are a bigger asshole than anyone I have ever met in the UK or any other parts of Europe I have visited.

I'm not an asshole, I am just brutally honest. I am a very nice person. If a foreigner asked me for directions I would jump at the chance, probably engage in some small talk and so forth. I am SURROUNDED by Russians, Mexicans, various Asians, and I meet the occasional Brit or Australian here in Seattle.

I don't treat people like shit for no reason, because Americans are taught to be nice to people. If a group of backpackers asked me for a few dollars I would do it to help them out. When we were backpacking in Europe, we were treated like total shit and the MOMENT people realized we weren't natives they became assholes.

Steady on now, what cities in Europe have you been to?

More than I can even begin to list or even recall completely. Just to give you an example, I've been to every EU country almost. I've been to the capitol of every Western European country, and many cities in between. Just in the UK alone I've been to Glasgow, London, Liverpool, Bristol, Manchester and a bunch of smaller cities/towns.

You have to understand that Europe is a continent with different cultures and languages.

Yes I know that. I even admitted that there are some Europeans that are incredibly nice, for instance the Swiss and the Dutch in my experience are very nice. But as a whole, the average European isn't as kind and as courteous to strangers as Americans are.

I'd say though that Europe as a whole is far more diverse than the US.

Well it's diverse as a whole, but that's just because Europe has been a fractured region with centuries of infighting that led to many separate cultures.

However, each individual European country isn't as diverse as the US is, to suggest that would be to laugh considering that over 1/3 of Americans are minorities. Whereas Europe is diverse with many other European cultures, the US is diverse with cultures from all over the world.

I know that western Europe is getting more international immigrants, but it's not even NEAR the amount or rate that the US gets.

As for the food, that's pathetic. There are all different kinds of food, you are just basing your opinions off some bad experience where you just turned up your nose because it was 'European'.

No... I noticed that the way food in Europe is prepared is a lot less sanitary than it is in the US. The way some food is cooked in Europe wouldn't even be allowed in the US. A notable example of this would be the street markets in Italy, Spain and Portugal. I got quite grossed out after seeing people both butchering and cooking fish on the street with no gloves, while smoking a cigarette.

The American food industry is much more closely regulated. I actually do like alot of European food, but some stuff that people eat, and the way it is prepared is just gross.

Extra-curricular activities? Where did you go, like some shack in a deserted French village? In London there are loads of galleries, museums for tourists, stadiums for our main sports; the London Eye, parks, the list goes on.

Well those are specific tourist destinations. I'm talking about like actual local extracurricular things to do. In the US there are FAR more sources of entertainment, we have much more movie theatres, malls, parks, clubs, arcades, sports stadiums... things of that nature. Americans frequently go dirtbiking, jet skiing, go karting, paintballing. I understand that this exists in Europe, but at a much lower degree.

In Paris there is the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, other places like the Stade de France, the River Seine. I could go on about other cities but I think I've proven my point.

Once again, those are just mindless tourist destinations. I'm talking about infrastructure and the culture of extracurricular things as a whole. Europeans just don't have as much emphasis on entertainment as Americans do.

Yes, but then I probably wouldn't much like living in the US or Canada as I am used to here. It's not because either is better.

Well I didn't necessary say one was better. "Better" is a subjective term as a matter of opinion. Of course I believe the US is better, but my point I was trying to make is that to an American or Canadian who is used to our type of extravagant society, Europe is kind of a step down.

The BIGGEST things a Canadian or American will comment about concerning Europe is their overall lack of abundance. We are used to an abundance of consumer products, especially food in super markets. As well as an abundance of outlets for entertainment, malls, clubs, etc..

I know that Europe DOES have malls, and supermarkets and so forth, but it's not to the degree that we have it.

Another thing that Canadians and Americans will complain about is the fact that many cars, homes, and businesses don't have air conditioning unless they are specifically designed to appease tourists. When Canadians and Americans kind of go outside of the typical tourist hotspots, they'll see that living in Europe isn't as glamorous as they would like to believe.

Erm, there are extremes in both cases. Take New York. I'd like to see you ask for help there without getting a 'fuck off'.

Simply asking for help in New York wouldn't result in that. If you simply asked for directions they wouldn't react violently like alot do in Europe.

In Paris, there are some people who will look at you like mud but most will actually help you out. I like how you also stereotype a whole generation of a continent as 'selfish assholes'.

I know the WHOLE continent of Europe isn't like that. But ON AVERAGE in comparison to the AVERAGE American, the AVERAGE European is just that, a selfish asshole, especially in the eyes of an American or Canadian who is used to common courtesy.

I could say the same about Americans, but it doesn't make it true and I know that.

And I don't think you've ever been to the US anyhow.

The only place in Europe I would EVER consider living is Dusseldorf, Germany because that's where I stayed as an exchange student. But the only reason they are tolerable is because they are probably the most Americanized Europeans, and therefore have adopted American behavioral patterns.

Oh for fuck's sake. Like being polite is an American behavioral pattern.

It is. I see a pretty big cultural difference between the US and most of Europe, and being polite, even to people you hate or are being rude to you is emphasized in the US. Europeans are also taught to be tolerant of other races and people from other countries. If a man with a British accent approaches an American, the American will think nothing of it, maybe ask a question about where he is from and that will be that. If an American does the same thing to a Brit, chances are that Brit will immediately pull out some sort of ignorant political recitation.

How many places have you actually been to in Europe?

Almost every single country in Europe, I'm being completely honest when I say that. I've been to Europe 3 times, 2 times on vacation with my family, another time when I lived there for 8 months, part of that as an exchange student in Germany, part of it purely traveling. This also includes 2 months in your country, in or around London.

At 4/10/07 06:24 AM, lapis wrote: Cellar, maybe people treat you like shit because you're a self-satisfied asshat who brings out the worst in people.

If that's the case, then I wonder why I was treated just fine by locals in other places I've been...

If I just bring the worse out in people, I wonder why my stay in Dusseldorf was probably one of the greatest times of my life in which I made tons of friends. I wonder why, if I'm such a "self-satisfied asshat," that I had never encountered people even slightly as rude as Europeans while I was in Israel, Hong Kong, Mexico, Brazil, New Zealand, Australia, or even Japan where people are supposedly assholes...

At 4/10/07 06:50 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 4/10/07 06:24 AM, lapis wrote: Cellar, maybe people treat you like shit because you're a self-satisfied asshat who brings out the worst in people.

If that's the case, then I wonder why I was treated just fine by locals in other places I've been...

Well, I went to France and Spain and met friendly people. You went to those places and you were apparently treated with a certain amount of disrespect. So the problem isn't that these people are always unfriendly, but it's the difference between me and you that's the decisive factor.

It's probably the "I'm an American and you're here to cater to my every desire" tone of voice. Germans and Japanese might still have the feeling that they owe Americans for WW2 so they might be more receptive, Israelis might react in a similar fashion because they consider Americans their only real ally. So they be more prone to forgive your disposition which apparently irks other Europeans. I wonder, when you went to France, did you try to speak French to them? Most Europeans consider to be respectful when you speak their language in their countries, even though people in the Netherlands don't mind speaking English. You won't have that problem in New Zealand, Australia or Hong Kong for example.

As a personal sidenote, a native Iranian friend of mine went to Bayern and he wasn't very positive about the way he was treated, maybe if you didn't have your German ancestors and American accent you wouldn't have had such a great time.

The UK is WAY better because everyone loves cheap booze (Fosters, Carling etc) so you can get hammered and still have money left :)

And no one gives a shit about religion or health >:-D

At 4/9/07 09:06 PM, aaron-god-of-thunder wrote: I'm tired of people who bitch about america, and say _______ is better, they need to Move, or shut up. If you think sum other country is better, MOVE. these a-holes don't realize how good they got it. If Japan is so much better than America, Move to Japan, then you'll be there for 6 years, and start bitching about Japan. Be glad you a-holes are even aloud to talk trash about our gov't, i many countries, you do that, and your found 2 days later dead in a ditch.

Have you ever tried to move internationally. I have done it several times. It's not easy. It's not like moving toanother state, you need a residents permit (green card here) and it's often quite to very difficult to get one. People can complain, why should they move.

It shouldn't be a matter of if you don't like it move. How about if you don't like it fix it. If there is something in another country that is better than the same thing here we should fix it not get insulted and digging our heads in the sand ignoring the problem (whatever it may be)
There are plenty of things that are better in other first world countries than they are here and vica versa. FIX THEM so wew are the best aat everything

At 4/10/07 01:32 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 4/9/07 09:11 PM, Errormatix wrote:

Europe kicks america in the shins.

Only people who have never been to Europe and the US both will say that. Only people like you who have no point of rference.

Europe sucks, Americans with vivid imaginations like to pretend otherwise and lash out against the mainstream by advocating European-style society. But then you go to Europe and you realize that the majority of Europeans are selfish, dirty ass holes. Their cities are dirty, they have horrible hygiene, their food is crap, and they have no sense of humor. There is far less opportunity, far less extracurricular activities to engage in, and their society as a whole isn't as vibrant and diverse as it is in the US.

That may be a stereotype, but I've been all over Europe and I came to that conclusion based on my observation and experience. Europe is fun to visit occasionally for tourist reasons, but to live in almost any place in Europe would suck if you are used to America or Canada.

Heres an example; In the US if your car needs a jump-start, the average American guy will say "sure thing" he'll help you out, do a little chit chat, etc etc. Then when your car is running you'll offer him money and he probably won't accept it in return. Americans are nice for the most part, even if they refused to help you they aren't going to be angered and offended by the fact that you did ask them.

But if you did this in Europe and they'll tell you to fuck off and appear as if you just asked them to suck your balls. Either that or they'll demand a hefty fee for their assistance. This is a perfect example of our cultural differences. Usually the more rural Europeans are nicer, but most young urban Europeans are selfish assholes, they are brutally selfish.

Europeans are cold and have no manners for the most part. You think Europe is a social, happy utopia la la land? It's not. You think cities like Paris are beautiful romantic places filled with smiling people? Hell no it's not, it's filled with greedy, selfish, rude assholes who barely ever smile, and who would just as quickly jack your wallet as they would give you directions.

The only place in Europe I would EVER consider living is Dusseldorf, Germany because that's where I stayed as an exchange student. But the only reason they are tolerable is because they are probably the most Americanized Europeans, and therefore have adopted American behavioral patterns.

What complete and utter nonsense. The only place you have lived is Dusseldorf and you would stay there. I have lived throughout Europe and I can tell you Dusseldorf is pretty typical as far as German towns go. So you could consider living anywhere in Germany. You are obviously an extremely ethnocentric person and even with that the experience of one place has led you to say you would move there. Experience some more places by staying for an extended period and you will see that makes us alike than different. I guarantee you you would have the same reaction to most other European cities as you had to Dusseldorf if you actually took the time to stay at some for extended periods.

Schoenen Tag noch.

I've never been out of the country, but through studying I can say there are a few countries I certainly would not have an interest in visiting to test this theory.....

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, you've never been to another country and yet you feel qualified to make a comment. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, just like most people who want to say America is best and if you don't like it move. You have to experience the other countries in order to make a valid statement, and I don't just mean from a vacation (although that is at least something) Live there and then tell me about it. I have lived in England, Germany, Spain, Italy and Holland (although only a short time in Holland, in Roermond to be precise) There are some things that are better here and some there.

How about visiting other countries to broaden your horizons.