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Even under Christian preachings, we should all go to heaven.
With improvements in science and psychology we are able to tell that everything we do is controlled 100% by our brain. There is nothing else which interferes with our actions.
So no matter how bad we are, we cannot blame any more than our brains.

This means that our soul is without sin and remains so for all eternity, because, all it does is give us life and a sense of existence. Nothing else. Our soul is not responsible for the sins of our minds and as such it cannot be held accountable for the actions of our flesh.
And subsequently, our soul (what makes us exist) is entitles, by Christian belief, to reside in heaven for all eternity.

I rest my case.

For once, i actually kind of semi-agree with you, but i think there's more to it than that.

At 4/3/07 07:13 AM, Alphabit wrote: Even under Christian preachings, we should all go to heaven.
With improvements in science and psychology we are able to tell that everything we do is controlled 100% by our brain. There is nothing else which interferes with our actions.

Nothing you say means anything. You don't even know what you're talking about.

You think you're clever but A) You didn't prove anything you claimed. B) you acknowledged zero alternative variables. C) You failed to acknowledge that maybe the brain is controlled by the spirit and that they go hand in hand. D) The brain isn't even slightly understood by science yet and therefore F) the very foundation of your entire meaningless little rant there is moot.

Nah, God just set you all up for a game you can't win.

First he creates you and your brain, then he sets an goal you and your brain is unable to win. He then sits back an enjoys the desperate attempts.

It is kinda like when kids play with ants.

At 4/3/07 07:18 AM, K-RadPie wrote: For once, i actually kind of semi-agree with you, but i think there's more to it than that.

To me it makes so much more sense out of Christianity.
Now we need to assume that god is pure GOOD, he/it only wants the ABSOLUTE best for us... Why would he send us to hell?

Let's recap:

- God is all powerful, all knowing, etc...
- God loves us all equally

Now, the first point implies that God can do anything, he could turn our sins into goodness if he wants to, he can choose to forgive our sins whether we believe in him or not.

The second point implies that God wants all of us to have eternal life... And I mean he REALLY wants that for each of us.

Taking the two above points mean that there is no way that god would deny any of us from heaven, regardless of what we do. Even if we begged God to send us to hell, he will only send us where we as individuals will be most happy/fulfilled (heaven).

If you think that God will send bad people to hell, then you are ignoring either one of the biblical statements above. God loves murderers as much as Christians. It's not about the body nor the brain, it's about the soul.

At 4/3/07 07:27 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 4/3/07 07:13 AM, Alphabit wrote: Even under Christian preachings, we should all go to heaven.
With improvements in science and psychology we are able to tell that everything we do is controlled 100% by our brain. There is nothing else which interferes with our actions.

Nothing you say means anything. You don't even know what you're talking about.

You think you're clever but A) You didn't prove anything you claimed. B) you acknowledged zero alternative variables. C) You failed to acknowledge that maybe the brain is controlled by the spirit and that they go hand in hand. D) The brain isn't even slightly understood by science yet and therefore F) the very foundation of your entire meaningless little rant there is moot.

Does Artificial Intelligence ring the bell?
We have been able to make computers that can recognize complex patterns and robots that can pretty much think for themselves... Are you saying that a robot has a soul because it can think? Thinking doesn't require a soul; it's merely processing information.

I know that we haven't made completely "human-like robots" yet, but just wait a while, we'll get there I guarantee you.
Now then you could say, well, how can we prove that robots don't have souls?
Well, the thing is, we might as well say "how can I prove that my eraser has a soul?"
Well I can't, in fact, it may well be that everything has a soul. But I find it more believable that objects don't have one because they don't appear to be conscious...
Consciousness is the biggest scientific mystery, it is in fact the ultimate question of the universe and everything.

At 4/3/07 07:51 AM, Alphabit wrote: Well I can't, in fact, it may well be that everything has a soul. But I find it more believable that objects don't have one because they don't appear to be conscious...
Consciousness is the biggest scientific mystery, it is in fact the ultimate question of the universe and everything.

Well, of all the Christians I know, none thinks animals have souls, only humans.

But, anyway, maybe everything contains consciousness, only, not everything has input and output to show this?

I myself don't believe in all that. I don't think there is such a thing as a soul, but I'm not sure about consciousness. Most probably consciousness and free will is an illusion, since we aren't able to "find it" in any way.

Well, Alphabit has just proven his stupidity. I wonder how many more idiots are out there.

At 4/3/07 07:13 AM, Alphabit wrote: This means that our soul is without sin and remains so for all eternity, because, all it does is give us life and a sense of existence. Nothing else. Our soul is not responsible for the sins of our minds and as such it cannot be held accountable for the actions of our flesh.
And subsequently, our soul (what makes us exist) is entitles, by Christian belief, to reside in heaven for all eternity.

If the soul is what gives us a sense of existence, then the term "soul" refers to various parts of the brain that deal with sensory perception and judgement, meaning your point is both invalid and meaningless

At 4/3/07 07:13 AM, Alphabit wrote: Even under Christian preachings, we should all go to heaven.
With improvements in science and psychology we are able to tell that everything we do is controlled 100% by our brain. There is nothing else which interferes with our actions.
So no matter how bad we are, we cannot blame any more than our brains.

This means that our soul is without sin and remains so for all eternity, because, all it does is give us life and a sense of existence. Nothing else. Our soul is not responsible for the sins of our minds and as such it cannot be held accountable for the actions of our flesh.
And subsequently, our soul (what makes us exist) is entitles, by Christian belief, to reside in heaven for all eternity.

I rest my case.

I would hope that all of our actions stem from the use of our brains, but your post makes me doubt that. 1) A better argument for your case might have been that we do everything out of instinct, but that idea would be false because we do things against our instincts all of the time. altruism, chastity, and suicide are just some examples off the top of my head. 2) The soul is considered to be the primary component of a person's innermost personality by people who believe in the soul. Any choice a person makes stems from their innermost character, and if that character is unrepentantly evil, then it is found to be unworthy of heaven. 3) considering we have full control of our bodies and minds, we are accountable for our sins.

Well, hate to say this, but you are using flawed up logic. You are saying, if this is true, so must this be. We do not even know about the afterlife, so in no way can we prove that we all are going to heaven.

At 4/3/07 07:13 AM, Alphabit wrote: Even under Christian preachings, we should all go to heaven.

And subsequently, our soul (what makes us exist) is entitles, by Christian belief, to reside in heaven for all eternity.

I rest my case.

;
If I can not Drink, Swear, & Smoke in heaven !
I shall not go there . -Samuel Longhorne Clemens

& me as well MOREFuNGoDBlesS

Happy oversimplification and technicality day everyone!

No seriously, have any of you considered the fact that you just might be taking some of these rules and regulations the wrong way?

I mean, do you really believe that Ghandi's in Hell right now? Do you honestly believe God would be so stringent as to deny Ghandi but allow Hitler because of technicalities and loopholes in Christian doctrine?

At 4/3/07 07:13 AM, Alphabit wrote: This means that our soul is without sin and remains so for all eternity, because, all it does is give us life and a sense of existence.

That's presuming the soul exists. And heaven exists.

At 4/3/07 07:51 AM, Alphabit wrote: Consciousness is the biggest scientific mystery, it is in fact the ultimate question of the universe and everything.

This is also incorrect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_frontal _gyrus

And even if your theory were correct, we would go to the Purgatory, because venial sins are sins after all.

You realize that the brain and soul are hand in hand within the same creature.

One can't operate without the other. It's like expecting a human to survive without a heart and only a brain, or vice versa.

Plus then there's that nasty little thing called original sin.

At 4/3/07 07:51 AM, Alphabit wrote:

At 4/3/07 07:27 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 4/3/07 07:13 AM, Alphabit wrote: Even under Christian preachings, we should all go to heaven.
With improvements in science and psychology we are able to tell that everything we do is controlled 100% by our brain. There is nothing else which interferes with our actions.

Nothing you say means anything. You don't even know what you're talking about.

You think you're clever but A) You didn't prove anything you claimed. B) you acknowledged zero alternative variables. C) You failed to acknowledge that maybe the brain is controlled by the spirit and that they go hand in hand. D) The brain isn't even slightly understood by science yet and therefore F) the very foundation of your entire meaningless little rant there is moot.

Does Artificial Intelligence ring the bell?
We have been able to make computers that can recognize complex patterns and robots that can pretty much think for themselves... Are you saying that a robot has a soul because it can think?

It doesn't really THINK all it does is have a preset set of processes that are programmed to do certain things when certain information is given.

They don't really think because they don't have alpha waves which are the random electronic pulses in animal life that make things conscious.

Computers are not conscious, they simply follow a human-designed protocol. They have no conscience, no ego, no sense of self. They have become advanced enough to do somethings that might be considered "thinking" but they really don't think, they just react as they are designed to. Computers and whatever "intelligence" you think they have is just that, artificial, it's not really aware of what it is doing, it is just a bunch of electrical signals being interpreted, processed, and reacted to in accordance with it's programming.

End.

At 4/3/07 09:32 AM, Memorize wrote: Well, Alphabit has just proven his stupidity. I wonder how many more idiots are out there.

They're plenty of liberals to go around.

At 4/3/07 07:51 AM, Alphabit wrote:

Does Artificial Intelligence ring the bell?
We have been able to make computers that can recognize complex patterns and robots that can pretty much think for themselves... Are you saying that a robot has a soul because it can think? Thinking doesn't require a soul; it's merely processing information.

No. Just no. While thinking doesn't require a soul and can be digitized into a process that can be carried out by computers, A.I. and the actual functions of the human mind couldn't b more different. Thinking may not require a soul, but nearly every other emotional process that a human experiences, added onto the vast powers and mystery of the subconscious would probably, by most people's beliefs, require a soul. Those are things that computers can never replicate perfectly, only simulate.

I know that we haven't made completely "human-like robots" yet, but just wait a while, we'll get there I guarantee you.

We'll get close, but it will never be perfect. We already have very human like robots today but we will never be able to recreate the human entity in a robot. It's impossible to program the effects of emotions into a robot. While they can simulate the appearance of an emotion such as anger, they can't actually feel it. Therein is the difference that a robot can't feel rage and a human can.

Now then you could say, well, how can we prove that robots don't have souls?
Well, the thing is, we might as well say "how can I prove that my eraser has a soul?"

We can't even prove that humans have souls. The whole concept is a matter of faith. You're just using this impossible to answer question to try and back up your claim, though you're starting to drift into irrelevance here. Nice try.

I worked with this muslim guy and he told me that everyone goes to heaven, but you pay your debt while your still on earth.

At 4/3/07 09:15 PM, JakeHero wrote:

At 4/3/07 09:32 AM, Memorize wrote: Well, Alphabit has just proven his stupidity. I wonder how many more idiots are out there.

They're plenty of liberals to go around.

And plenty of people who label anyone they disagree with as "liberal" as well.

At 4/3/07 11:59 PM, SyntheticTacos wrote:

And plenty of people who label anyone they disagree with as "liberal" as well.

Did you want me to add "filthy" in front of it?

they also use the word "communist" for that to.

Universalism

lol

But! God gave you a conscience so you know the difference between right and wrong.

At 4/3/07 04:45 PM, Der-Lowe wrote: And even if your theory were correct, we would go to the Purgatory, because venial sins are sins after all.

;
Sorry dude the catlick's closed Purgatory.
THey've done away with it, but I haven't heard if all the souls in purgatory got sent to heaven, or if they all went to hell. LOL

From the moment we breath our first breath we are sinners, God gave us Free will any choice we make is of our own decision, and therefor we are responsible for it. God wants us to Strive to be the best person we can he knows we are going to fall short because we are not perfect .

But saying that no matter what we do we are going to be granted eternal life is not only cocky but stupid, with that type of thinking a person such as yourself would do lots of outrageous sins, without remorse.. Because you think you will go to heaven anyway. I wish I knew a better word than stupid in-fact you deserve your own special word to describe your lack of intelligence.

At 4/6/07 02:21 AM, troubles1 wrote: From the moment we breath our first breath we are sinners, God gave us Free will any choice we make is of our own decision, and therefor we are responsible for it. God wants us to Strive to be the best person we can he knows we are going to fall short because we are not perfect .

But saying that no matter what we do we are going to be granted eternal life is not only cocky but stupid, with that type of thinking a person such as yourself would do lots of outrageous sins, without remorse.. Because you think you will go to heaven anyway. I wish I knew a better word than stupid in-fact you deserve your own special word to describe your lack of intelligence.

Yeah, because, obviously, saying that we are all sinners from the very first breath isn't cocky and stupid at all. A child dying within his/her first year isn't that uncommon. It is a harsh reality. But, you are adding on top of that that they all go to hell too? How exactly can a 2 month old baby know about his free will and his/her responsibilities because of them? An impossible task. And yet, you follow a religion that says God is all nice and loves everybody?

How can you claim to love somebody when you give them an impossible life and then send them to hell as a result of a failure that couldn't be avoided?

Other Christians I can understand, but those with a mind-set like you make me sick.

At 4/6/07 05:46 AM, Drakim wrote:

At 4/6/07 02:21 AM, troubles1 wrote:

Yeah, because, obviously, saying that we are all sinners from the very first breath isn't cocky and stupid at all. A child dying within his/her first year isn't that uncommon. It is a harsh reality. But, you are adding on top of that that they all go to hell too? How exactly can a 2 month old baby know about his free will and his/her responsibilities because of them? An impossible task. And yet, you follow a religion that says God is all nice and loves everybody?

No I did not say that at all obviously you know nothing about the bible, so here I will give you some insight. WE are all sinners, because Adam sinned, a perfect man since then we are all born sinners, that penalty is death , our savour Jesus a perfect man Died for our sins, so when we die our sins are forgiven. so that unfortunate child would go to heaven, yet you who mock God and do every thing in your power to cause havoc among his followers it is uncertain what would happen to you ,it is up to God. You understand better now my guy?