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At 3/18/07 10:59 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: I wasn't directing that towards you. I actually believe you when you say you were/are in the Air Force. But I've seen a lot of people in the General Forum periodically claim they are ex-marines and so forth and it's hard to believe when they have 10,000 posts in the space of 2 years you know.

I know Cellar...I wa just trying to have a little fun. A little of my dry humor!

hahaah so i dissagree and im now retarded? and you argue free speech? all four of my brother are in the marines/airforce/army reserve and they come home telling me how much they hate life and wish they never would have given in to all the propaganda recruiters spout out about the money for collage and all that jazz...so please dont talk to me like im some kid who doesnt know what hes talking about...

my brother in the marines told me allllllllll about his job/training/everyday life and he killed himself three months ago because he didnt want to be there...so uh...yea join the army, kill yourself for justice! (there are better ways to solve problems then telling the world you have a bigger military dick then them)

oh and uh...i see you ridiculing people calling them unintelligant and stupid/retarded/fags whatever because they think different than you...

and I'M an oxymoron? :D ignorance is bliss guys

can you cut down the talk not part of the original discussion please?
(forlorn hope, i know, but it's worth a shot.)
anyway, guy just called me from the air force, and said something about a new program for juniors. anyone know about this? jobs when you leave high school? something like that?

At 3/18/07 09:40 PM, Joodah wrote: At 3/18/07 11:57 AM, TheMason wrote
aside from the fighter pilots, it doesn't seem as if the air force is quite as cool. also, i've heard that the air force is one of the most corrupt branches. a good book on the subject is "BOYD". and of course, it's awesome just by itself.

Addressing the "cool" factor first:
What do you think is cool? What specifically? You are thinking about something that will alter the rest of your life. You shouldn't be thinking about what is "cool", but what is right for you. I mean do you really want to join an organization that treats you like a dog in front of your family (the USMC and Army will, I've seen it) or do you want to serve where they do more to develop the whole person (the USAF and Navy)?

If you're looking for a physical challenge do not count the Air Force out. Our Special Ops guys could easily compete with the baddest in the Navy SEALs, Rangers and Marine Force Reconn. We have about four:

1: PJs (Pararescue): One of these guys was portrayed in the movie Blackhawk Down erroneously as a US Army medic. These guys are nothing like Army medics. They more highly trained (often earning their Physician Assistant degrees) combat surgeons who carry weapons and will engage in combat. They deploy either as stand alone units or with other brances (such as in Mogadishu). I have been told by Army Rangers they do NOT challenge the Air Force special ops guys to PT challenges because the USAF guys tend to be in better physical conditioning because they carry everything the Rangers do PLUS medical gear.

2: CC (Combat Controllers): You've heard Marines and SEALs claim to be the first ones in, right? WRONG. It is USAF Combat Controllers. They deploy behind enemy lines the set-up control centers to guide the C-130s and other aircraft carrying the Marines and SEALs into the combat zone. Again a very difficult physical job which requires them to carry everything the most elite Soldiers and Marines carry PLUS 50lbs of communications gear. They also work in small teams isolated from friendly position operating equipment that could easily allow the enemy to find them. Marine Force Recon and SEALs depend upon stealth and a mission is a failure if they have to make contact with the enemy. The Air Force CC expects to make contact.

Also, when the US invaded Grenada in the 1980s the SEALs attempted a nighttime amphibious landing after being dropped into the sea by a helicopter. Unfortunately, up until this time they did not train for such a thing and the entire 6 man team died. On the other hand CC had been training on this for at least a decade and did the same feat at the same time with no loss of life. You'd think it would be the USAF and not the Navy that couldn't operate in a water environment...

3: TACP (Tactical Party): These are guys who are very similar to CC but they are attached and serve with the US Army Rangers. Their primary mission is to call in air strikes to support the Rangers. Again, they do everything the Rangers PLUS some. In fact one TACP member earned the Air Force Cross in Afghanistan, and last I heard is actually being considered for the Congressional Medal of Honor.

4: Combat Weatherman: These guys also deploy with the Rangers and do everything they do PLUS use drones and weather equipment to not only be an eye on the sky but an eye in the sky. Their drones are small handheld RC planes that can monitor the weather AND enemy movements on the ground.

I mean I think these jobs sound pretty cool...and from the people I've talked to across the SpecOps world; they are the most badass guys in the military (well maybe Delta Force).

If SpecOps is not what you want, but you want action we have Aerial Gunners who shoot vulcan cannons out the sides of PJ and CC helicopters, and HOWITZERS out of the side of the AC-130 gunship. But we do not have any other ground combat related jobs other than Security Forces (MP)...

But if you don't want combat, what do you think is cool? We have just about every other job out there, and we give better training in it. I would advise that you do not dismiss a branch just because you think it is not cool, you might be missing out on something. For example if you would like to be part of an aircrew then the Air Force has many more opportunities than any other branch.

As for corruption:
How do you figure?

Walter Reed: Army
Abu Gharib: Army
The Marine on 60 Minutes who killed a bunch of Iraqis.
Trophy: Army
We are not perfect, but when there was a rash of Sexual Assaults overseas the Army tried to cover it up and not prosecute, in fact they tended to punish the rape victim instead of trying to find the perps. The result was a team headed by an Air Force Lt. Col to make things right.

You will find corruption wherever.

What do you want to get out of the military, and what do you want to put into it? What kindof job do you want to do while you're in? What kindof job do you want to do when you get out? What are your college plans? What about family? How so do you want to get married...if at all?

i don't really know. i want to try to help my country out, pay it back a little for putting up with me for all these years.

A good reason. But you need to think about what you want to do with your life in order to figure out where you fit in the scheme of the military...

At 3/19/07 04:19 PM, Joodah wrote: for those who are in: how important are the ASVABs?
i got a 92 on mine, so i'm pretty sure that i'm fine, but.

The ASVAB and its importance depends upon two things:

1) What branch: The USMC and Army have a lower minimum score to get in than the USAF and USN.

2) What job: If you're going to be a cook or rifleman you don't need that high of scores. If you're going to do something with aviation or space or anything high tech like that you need a high score. Basically a 92 will get you any job in the USAF; which basically means you have an ASVAB score that should get you any enlisted job in the entire military.

At 3/19/07 05:43 PM, Joodah wrote: anyway, guy just called me from the air force, and said something about a new program for juniors. anyone know about this? jobs when you leave high school? something like that?

Was it the Delayed Entry Program (DEP)? This would allow you join up now. You don't have to go until after you graduate, but you earn time towards retirement. I'd have to know more specifics about what he was saying, so if you'd get me the info I'd look into it for you. And this is something else. Just from what you've posted here, would I be correct in assuming that you have not had much exposure to the military other than what you see on TV?

If that is the case (and even if it isn't) I would compare what the recruiter of any service says about anything with people who have served. Post it here, or even PM me. I'll do my best to answer your question for you.

And Dude, please don't think that I'm trying to push the USAF on you. Not one of the branches is for everyone. If you pick the wrong branch you're not going to be happy; you'll be miserable and you might not be serving your country to your fullest capacity. That is a lose-lose for everyone. But if you get the right branch with the right job then you will be happy and have a great experience; and you will serve your country to the upmost efficiency. That is a win-win.

But whatever you pick I'm glad you're even thinking of joining the military. It has been good to me...

by cool, i'm not really sure. there are jobs in all services that don't interest me, and the ones you mentioned sound awesome. unfortunately, i don't have the balls to jump out of a plane, so spec ops is out.
by corruption, i guess i was hit by a flood of misinfo. ah well.
air force=being reconsidered.

what i said was very relevant to the talk...you are all giving this kid one side of the story

you're not telling him the bleakness and sense of nothingness you get from being a tool in the army....i agree we need the army...but you cant just give the kid one side of the story and let him decide....america is founded on choice....if you kids were in office everyone would serve...and the choice would be eliminated

At 3/19/07 07:36 PM, dogsteak wrote:

you're not telling him the bleakness and sense of nothingness you get from being a tool in the army

If that were true, the army wouldn't be voluntary.

At 3/19/07 07:36 PM, dogsteak wrote: what i said was very relevant to the talk...you are all giving this kid one side of the story

you're not telling him the bleakness and sense of nothingness you get from being a tool in the army....i agree we need the army...but you cant just give the kid one side of the story and let him decide....america is founded on choice....if you kids were in office everyone would serve...and the choice would be eliminated

And you speak of this "bleakness" from.....personal experience?
If not, start listing sources, cause that's a loaded opinion to have come from nowhere.....coughSTEREOTYPEcough.......

At 3/19/07 07:36 PM, dogsteak wrote: you're not telling him the bleakness and sense of nothingness you get from being a tool in the army....

have you served in any branch of the armed forces? different results for different people, i guess.

i agree we need the army...but you cant just give the kid one side of the story and let him decide....

i'm gonna be asking family members who are in, and friends as well.

america is founded on choice....if you kids were in office everyone would serve...and the choice would be eliminated

....wha?

At 3/19/07 05:24 PM, dogsteak wrote: hahaah so i dissagree and im now retarded? and you argue free speech? all four of my brother are in the marines/airforce/army reserve and they come home telling me how much they hate life and wish they never would have given in to all the propaganda recruiters spout out about the money for collage and all that jazz...so please dont talk to me like im some kid who doesnt know what hes talking about...

my brother in the marines told me allllllllll about his job/training/everyday life and he killed himself three months ago because he didnt want to be there...so uh...yea join the army, kill yourself for justice! (there are better ways to solve problems then telling the world you have a bigger military dick then them)

Hehe. Liar. You think that you can tell alie to support your cause, but lying shows were you really stand. I totally think you are a liar. You should die asshole. Do not lie about death.

Once you've been in the military, You'll find it hard to adjust to civillian life, also they praticaly brainwash you.
I know employers who wont employ ex-squaddies because they can't think for them selves.

Then again one of my mates joined the Navy and he's having a fuckin quality time, He's been to Jamaca, Bemuda.... all sorts and Achieving all sorts of Qualifications.

At 3/19/07 06:33 PM, Joodah wrote: by cool, i'm not really sure. there are jobs in all services that don't interest me, and the ones you mentioned sound awesome. unfortunately, i don't have the balls to jump out of a plane, so spec ops is out.

Yeah I threw those out there because people have a tendancy to think the AF is just a bunch of overgrown baby fighter pilots and knuckle-dragging crew-chiefs/bomb loaders. But we really do have some awesome jobs many people do not know about!

air force=being reconsidered.

I'm glad to hear that, I just don't want to see anyone dismiss something out of hand. And no matter what branch you choose my hats off to you! I will say this, it takes courage and a keen sense of duty to join the Army or USMC right now.

And even if you choose to do something else I wish you the best of luck and thanks for considering military service!

Joodah,

Do you like working with your hands? If so, what do you like working on most:
Cars
Electronics
Building Arts (Plumbing, Heating/AC, etc...)

Do you like working with computers?

Rank these subjects, one being your favorite and nine being your least favorite:
Math
Biology
Chemistry
Astronomy
History
Government
Geography
English
Journalism

Do you prefer working inside or outside?

Do you like camping?

Have you ever shot a gun, would you like a job where you carried one only a little or alot?

What would your dream job be? If you picked a celebrity job (pro athlete, actor or rock/porn star) what would your dream "ordinary" job be? (Both questions are important.)

What is your nightmare job?

I'm currently serving in the Air Force. I'm not sure why you are so against it but if you have any questions I'd be happy to answer what I can.

I think the biggest thing before you join is to figure out exactly what it is you want to do. What job do you want? That is the most important thing. Then do a little research yourself and see what the different services have to offer you. You can talk to a recruiter but keep in mind you're going on what somebody else has to say.

If you have questions feel free to pm me.

I am a navy vet. We seem underrepresented for some reason. There are a few things you should know before joining.

1, You will scrub toilets, lots of them, and showers, and floors and you will do a lot of bullshit work. I have a cousin who is a ranger, and he spent his first six months out of training washin sheets. The good news is is that it won't last forever. Learn the phrase rank has privilage.

2, You will go to your worst command in your first enlistment. Your first command will suck more than any other. They will put you right into a command that is redy to deploy, and you will work your ass off.

3, You will be forced (on purpose many times) to work with people you hate. Get over it and get the job done.

4, You will be deployed. Most likely right away. Anyone who says diferent is a liar.

5, The food sucks. People like to twist this one around, but it really is horrible.

6, DO NOT SIGN UNLESS YOUR SCHOOL IS IN YOUR CONTRACT!!!! I can not stress that enough. You do not want to try to get into a school later. Make sure your job is in your contract.

All that said; you will have fun, you will make very good friends, you will get trained, the GI bill is worth every cent, and no mater how shity things are when you start, they do get better with rank. I just like to tell people what the recruiters won't so they have the whole story. The military will give you your best day of your life, and your worst day of your life. Just stay real.

At 3/20/07 08:17 PM, TheMason wrote: Do you like working with your hands? If so, what do you like working on most:
Cars
Electronics
Building Arts (Plumbing, Heating/AC, etc...)

electronics are sort of fun, but get really complicated after a little. so, i'm not really into those.

Do you like working with computers?

do games count?

Rank these subjects, one being your favorite and nine being your least favorite:
Math 9
Biology 7
Chemistry 6
Astronomy 8
History 1
Government 2
Geography 5
English 3
Journalism 4

Do you prefer working inside or outside?

i'm cool with both

Do you like camping?

love it.

Have you ever shot a gun, would you like a job where you carried one only a little or alot?

yep, i've shot a gun, and i wouldn't mind carrying one.

What would your dream job be? If you picked a celebrity job (pro athlete, actor or rock/porn star) what would your dream "ordinary" job be? (Both questions are important.)

never really thought about it... dream job is something along the lines of having sex with angelina jolie and/or salma hayek, but i seriously doubt the military will get me there. (damn)

What is your nightmare job?

gay porn star. no, seriously.

my uncle was in the navy, now in the reserve. i'll ask him about some of that.

At 3/21/07 07:28 AM, zendahl wrote:

Zendahl I know I'm going to sound like I'm polishing a turd and telling fish stories...BUT...

1, You will scrub toilets, lots of them, and showers, and floors and you will do a lot of bullshit work. I have a cousin who is a ranger, and he spent his first six months out of training washin sheets. The good news is is that it won't last forever. Learn the phrase rank has privilage.

In the AF it all depends on what careerfield you go into. If you go into one where there are many E-1s to E-3s then they will try and find other things to do with you. But in the AF these include stuff like Honor Guard. But in most careerfields in the AF they put you right into the job at your first base.

But yes RHIP...the newest guys are the ones who take out the trash and when it is their flights week, they'll give the toilets in the squadron a quick scrub. But its not that bad.

2, You will go to your worst command in your first enlistment. Your first command will suck more than any other. They will put you right into a command that is redy to deploy, and you will work your ass off.

In the AF this depends on your job. You MIGHT deploy your first 6 months, but they want you do get to a certain point in your "On-the-Job-Training" (OJT) before they deploy you.

3, You will be forced (on purpose many times) to work with people you hate. Get over it and get the job done.

Ain't this the truth! But where in life will a person be able to avoid this?

4, You will be deployed. Most likely right away. Anyone who says diferent is a liar.

Again differences in service branches. It is the people who are just out of tech school in the AF who are the last to be tapped for a deployment or TDY. There may be a few jobs in the AF that you can expect to deploy right away (Security Forces, SpecOps), but not the majority. I say this under the sign. (Anyone familiar with Masonica?)

5, The food sucks. People like to twist this one around, but it really is horrible.

Yup the food sucks!

6, DO NOT SIGN UNLESS YOUR SCHOOL IS IN YOUR CONTRACT!!!! I can not stress that enough. You do not want to try to get into a school later. Make sure your job is in your contract.

I CANNOT STRESS HOW MUCH I AGREE WITH YOU!!

All that said; you will have fun, you will make very good friends, you will get trained, the GI bill is worth every cent, and no mater how shity things are when you start, they do get better with rank. I just like to tell people what the recruiters won't so they have the whole story. The military will give you your best day of your life, and your worst day of your life. Just stay real.

Amen. I have a neighbor who is a Pearl Harbor survivor. He says he would not pay a dime to repeat his time in the Navy BUT he would not sell it for a million dollars...(and remember, he grew-up in the depression when a million dollars was worth more than it is today!)

At 3/21/07 02:53 PM, Joodah wrote:

:Answered Mason's personality quiz...

YOUR MILITARY JOB:
Intelligence

Based upon what you said I think intelligence would be a good a fit for you. In the Air Force I would suggest the 1N0x1 (you can just say 1N0 when talking to a recruiter) careerfield. The reason is you said you liked History, Government and English as your top three favorite subject areas. Geography is also very important in this careerfield.

One of the specializations in the 1N0 career is PEC3 analyst which stands for: Political, Economic, Command, Control (and one other C that I am forgetting). Here it would be your job to look at unclassified and classified information about a country and use that information to brief a Colonel or 4-star general on what is going on in that country.

This job requires an intellect that likes to figure things out, watch the news, understand culture and communicate both orally and written.

One drawback about AF Intel is that you will be spending all your time inside a building with no windows. The reason is you are dealing with classified information that if it got out would cause GRAVE damage to national security. I also imagine the Navy Intel guys work under the same conditions except they work both on land and at sea.

BUT you get a God's eye view of what is going on in the world. You will see where the Marines, Navy and Army are at and what they are doing.

In the USMC and Army I believe that they have units that go into the field to perform their intel gathering and briefing on the ground in a combat zone. If you like camping and want to carry a gun these are the branches for you. But your focuse will be narrow and you won't always be seeing the big picture.

To change the subject just a little, you might consider going Guard or Reserve if you think you might like to go to college. The advantage of this is that you get the same training as the Active Duty military, but you can go to school. In most cases you'll get tuition assistance. In the Guard this means that you get 100% tuition assistance if you go to a state school, or if you go to a private school you get up to 100% of the state school cost.

You get to "try out" the military, but get to remain somewhat of a civilian at the same time. However, you have to be careful if you take this route. The Army National Guard is being leaned on big time right now, chances are you'll become de facto active duty. However, the Air National Guard (the Air Force Guard) deploys less. Furthermore, there are different units and circumstances that inhibit deployment. For example; it would take an Executive Order to force my unit to deploy anyone to Iraq or Afghanistan. However, if Kim Jong-Il attacks S. Korea or China invades Taiwan...I'm going to war with no questions asked. (I know many are probably flying the BS flag...but like I said earlier I swear under the sign this is true...)

Anyway, hope this helps!

At 3/20/07 08:36 PM, pwroftheseagoat wrote: I'm currently serving in the Air Force. I'm not sure why you are so against it but if you have any questions I'd be happy to answer what I can.

Seagoat,

I think he's starting to reconsider the AF. What is your job? Where are you stationed at?

I was a 2A3x2 (F-16 Avionics) in Active Duty. Tomorrow I graduate from 1C5x1 (Aerospace Control & Warning) school for the ANG. I've been stationed at Shaw, Kunsan and now the MoANG in St. Louis.

whatever service i end up going into (if i go, not sure, but definitely leaning that way) my first tour would definitely be the shortest offered, to see if i like it or not. i think i would have no problem being deployed to iraq or wherever, but again, i won't know 'till i get there.
intelligence sounds pretty cool.
also, i don't think i'd have trouble doing shitty jobs, 'cause i know that i'd already be doing the worst thing available, and it's all up from here.

I served in the german army (our army is a dump)
i hate our army (but i'm lucky that we are not involved in the iraqi war)
the only good thing in our army is our infantry Rifle its a Heckler and Koch G36

At 3/18/07 09:48 PM, StrawberryCat wrote: I would not join the military. Not because I am not patriotic. In fact, I admire the fact that the Army is there to defend the nation. However, the current war in Iraq is hardly defending the U.S.A. Instead, the troop deployment to Iraq is just to try to secure oil for Bush, Halliburton and the Bilderberg people. I may give my life to defend my country from genuine danger, but not to make a group of pricks richer.

This is a really old argument. It's shameful really that you would even consider using it. Oil is a valueable resource and you wouldn't want a psycho similar to Saddam to get control over it!

At 3/21/07 04:06 PM, TheMason wrote:

At 3/20/07 08:36 PM, pwroftheseagoat wrote: I'm currently serving in the Air Force. I'm not sure why you are so against it but if you have any questions I'd be happy to answer what I can.

Seagoat,

I think he's starting to reconsider the AF. What is your job? Where are you stationed at?

I was a 2A3x2 (F-16 Avionics) in Active Duty. Tomorrow I graduate from 1C5x1 (Aerospace Control & Warning) school for the ANG. I've been stationed at Shaw, Kunsan and now the MoANG in St. Louis.

I am enlisted aircrew. I'm not going to go into specifics about my job or where I'm stationed at. I'm not really comfortable posting that kind of stuff on a public website. I will tell you that being a flyer is pretty damned fun though. The job is also relatively easy compared to say maintenance or avionics. As flyers we're generally treated better than ground units. If you have an interest in flying their are several airborne specialties and several different platforms available to fly on. I'm sure that TheMason would be willing to search some links for you or you can google them yourself.

To get a flying AFSC you need to have an ASVAB above a seventy.

i got a 92. aircrew could be cool. i am sort of interested in helicopter gunnery(?).

At 3/21/07 07:18 PM, Joodah wrote: i got a 92. aircrew could be cool. i am sort of interested in helicopter gunnery(?).

Aircrew is the way to go. Better uniform (flightsuit), extra money (flight pay), better treatment, and a more exciting job than most. Also every flying squadron that I've been in has had a bar. That speaks for itself. Do some research, here is a link to get you started with all of the flying AFSC's including gunner. In addition to your normal training you will go through a class 3 flight physical, survival (SERE) training, and depending on what platform you go to you may need a security clearance.

AIRCREW AFSC'S.

At 3/21/07 07:55 PM, pwroftheseagoat wrote: ... and depending on what platform you go to you may need a security clearance.

One of the things I would do over is pick a job that requires a TS clearance. That can open many doors in the civilian sector. And the younger you are, the easier it is to get. There is less to investigate!

At 3/21/07 07:18 PM, Joodah wrote: i got a 92. aircrew could be cool. i am sort of interested in helicopter gunnery(?).

Well if you are liking the thought of being a door gunner, you can always go to the marines and to it in our ancient ch-46, ch-53, and our oh soo loved uh-1n. I didn't go into telling you what I do, but I'm an avionics technicain on uh-1n and ah-1w. thats the huey and the cobra. I'm am flight crew certified, and being a avi tech makes me even more valuable to the squadron. Who would have thought the Marine Corps could fly? When I went to join, I didn't.