Communism- is it really so bad?

[Jordanog]

I see all kinds of pros: Lack of greed and envy. No bums. Same slice of the pie as the Johnsons across the street.
Sure they limit the press and free speech, but come on. It would skyrocket our economy too. Sorry if I sound un-American, but do we really have anything to fear from a spreading form of government which proceeds to create an organized work force?

[deslona]

Talk further so I can see if you understand how communism really works... It looks though you have just read a book on it and like the idea. But little more.

Sorry.

[Glahardt]

At 3/15/07 04:17 AM, Jordanog wrote: I see all kinds of pros: Lack of greed and envy. No bums. Same slice of the pie as the Johnsons across the street.
Sure they limit the press and free speech, but come on. It would skyrocket our economy too. Sorry if I sound un-American, but do we really have anything to fear from a spreading form of government which proceeds to create an organized work force?

Organized? Well, you can say that, but remember: you don't get paid in Communism. In communism, there is no freedom, you can't get out of country, they limit not only the freedom of speech, but also the information you get(such as The Great Firewall of China) Now think of yourself as a farmer. You plant all the vegetables and stuff, that can feed about... Say 100 people, but in the end, all of it was taken away from you, and they gave you coupons to collect just enough to feed you and your family. What do you see here?

[girlygamer]

Perhaps it has its merrits... but then do we really live in a democracy, are our presidential choices, real choices or is it that the only people who can make it into politics, are supa rich and slightly deviant (perfectly happy to twist the law to their own benefit to get the presidency) How free are we?????

[deslona]

At 3/15/07 06:57 AM, Glahardt wrote:

Organized? Well, you can say that, but remember: you don't get paid in Communism.

Of course you do! Maybe not what we would think of as 'alot' but you do get paid.

In communism, there is no freedom, you can't get out of country,

You can, explain the Chinese tourists and students.

they limit not only the freedom of speech, but also the information you get(such as The Great Firewall of China)

I fullheartedly agree with you.
I do not read or watch Chiense media. I get my infromation through a proxy server to the BBC and others, as they are blocked.

Now think of yourself as a farmer. You plant all the vegetables and stuff, that can feed about... Say 100 people, but in the end, all of it was taken away from you, and they gave you coupons to collect just enough to feed you and your family. What do you see here?

They are 'supposed' to be compensated a fair amount for their land loss. However of course with corruption high here the money goes to other intrests and the farmers (and everyone else) is left with very little.

The issue is corruption with land rights, most people here are happy to leave IF THEY ARE COMPENSATED FAIRLY (info NOT from a Chiense site). Which usually doesn't happen - and they are becomming more and more aware of this.

[Glahardt]

At 3/15/07 07:20 AM, deslona wrote: You can, explain the Chinese tourists and students.

In case you haven't noticed, they are already in the process of transforming, from Communism to Capitalism.

[iscrulz]

SImply put communism looks good on paper but sucks in reality. The rich and poor need to be killed then let the middle class be.

[Sir-S-Of-TURBO]

At 3/15/07 04:17 AM, Jordanog wrote: I see all kinds of pros: Lack of greed and envy. No bums. Same slice of the pie as the Johnsons across the street.
Sure they limit the press and free speech, but come on. It would skyrocket our economy too. Sorry if I sound un-American, but do we really have anything to fear from a spreading form of government which proceeds to create an organized work force?

You have much to fear since communism creates a state where some dude just grabs power and buttrapes the population for their $$$.

Social Democracy is the way to go.

[deslona]

At 3/15/07 07:28 AM, Glahardt wrote:

At 3/15/07 07:20 AM, deslona wrote: You can, explain the Chinese tourists and students.

In case you haven't noticed, they are already in the process of transforming, from Communism to Capitalism.

Really?! Of course I haven't seen that! I haven't spent the last 7 months here!
As for Communism vs Capitalism. Where does Democracy fit in?

As for Communism - money talks. That simple, not saying it is right at all. Just telling it how it is.

[Draconias]

At 3/15/07 09:02 AM, deslona wrote: Really?! Of course I haven't seen that! I haven't spent the last 7 months here!
As for Communism vs Capitalism. Where does Democracy fit in?

It doesn't. Communism and Capitalism are economic system, and Democracy is a political system. The only connection is that Communism usually requires a dictatorial government to enforce it bcause the individual benefits are worse for everyone.

Communism itself is flawed. It sounds good on the surface, but if you actually look at how it works it promises stuff that it does not give and it doesn't function properly. It does't give equal shares-- just forces a black market. It doesn't create an oganize workforce-- just a planned economy that unbalances and collapses. It doesn't make everyone happy-- it just makes everyone poor. Communism is an illusion.

[morefngdbs]

At 3/15/07 04:17 AM, Jordanog wrote: I see all kinds of pros: Lack of greed and envy. No bums. Same slice of the pie as the Johnsons across the street.
Sure they limit the press and free speech, but come on. It would skyrocket our economy too.

;
THe best part of communism is that everyone is equal, but!!!! some of us are much more equal than others.
Even better than that , there is no need for courts or lawyers, just off to the gulag.

[semaGdniM]

Well if we look at Marx and Engels "Utopian Communism" then no it's not so bad. But that requires the kindness and compassion of all people at all times. Human nature would not allow a Utopian Communism to happen. Sorry to beat this dead horse but as many say, On paper, wonderful. In real life, impossible.

[uhnoesanoob]

Communism is a wonderful idea, but only an IDEA . In communism, everyone gets paid the same and gets the same rations of food, housing, and medical care. However. we will never achieve true Communism.

Lets say your a doctor. Would you work hard and study hard to be a doctor if you knew your were gonna get paid as much as a clerk? No.

Also, most of Countries that believe in Communism are either really bad to live in[i.e. China,Cuba] or no longer exist. In a communism, many people are violently killed for their beliefs. In a Democracy we have freedom and an equal chance to follow our dreams. Of course, many people like Communism when looking from far away. Trust me, read "Animal Farm". Best book ever for someone wondering what the best government is.

Democracy- Shitty, but not as shitty as everything else!

[Starmanclock]

Communistic countries have been known for people starving to death. Communism was never a good idea.

[Dr-Worm]

At 3/15/07 04:17 AM, Jordanog wrote: I see all kinds of pros: Lack of greed and envy. No bums. Same slice of the pie as the Johnsons across the street.
Sure they limit the press and free speech, but come on. It would skyrocket our economy too. Sorry if I sound un-American, but do we really have anything to fear from a spreading form of government which proceeds to create an organized work force?

Yes. We have everything to fear. And where do you get "spreading form of government" from? It's shrinking. Every major Communist country has collapsed except for 2, and one of them is only Communist by name (China) and the other is almost at the end of an era, so it's likely that democracy isn't far away (Cuba).

Anyways, all those "pros" are purely idealistic. Now that society has developed as it has, there's no going back. Nobody in a position of advantage is going to drop to subsistence level just to be equal with everyone else. Even the Communist countries that have come and gone have never really been equal. It's a failed experiment.

Finally, and most importantly, economy and employment aren't everything. Simply surviving isn't enough; without the freedom to do what we want, are we really living?

No, no we really aren't. Because you've lived in a free country all your life, you take that freedom for granted. It's actually kind of a big deal, and it's something that not too many people have. Say whatever the hell you want, and appreciate it :)

[deepspace]

Communism is a terrible, terrible idea. It takes away private ownership and drastically limits the quality of life. If Communism were to be implemented it would have the same, if not, worse effect than the Great Depression.

America owes its prosperity and booming economy to its Capitalist, mixed economy.
All Communism leads to is economic ruin and hardship.

Why would anyone want to earn the same pay as someone else?
This kills the incentive to even get an education or to perform quality work.
It creates a weak, inefficient, command economy. The worst idea of the 20th century.

[Dime585]

Communism has some ideas that sound good, but true communism will probably never be achieved. There is always somebody who would make more than somebody else, and then you end up with a dictatorship. In communism, everyone is supposed to make the same amount of money and nobody is better than anyone else. But, in many cases, the leaders of the countries make way mpre money than anyone else.

[SirLebowski]

Oh yes. America is such a shit hole economically. I wish we were like those other communist countries out there. With all their spoils and riches. Man. We live in such a crapshoot compared to them.

Sorry for the asshole-ish sarcasm =(

[highland-toffee-cow]

"At 3/15/07 11:26 PM, Dime585 wrote:

Communism has some ideas that sound good, but true communism will probably never be achieved."

I totally agree with this. Communism will never work the way it should. I would not like to trust and rely on the Government to do this. I feel as humans we need to get out and achieve on our own and from there we will be rewarded.

[Ptcfast]

At 3/15/07 04:17 AM, Jordanog wrote: It would skyrocket our economy too.

Communism is good in the short perspective but really in the long run it will collapse the economy.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

no Communism BAD quit making these threads you dumbasses.

I request a mod deletes/locks the thread.

[UndeadShaman]

Listen me now ya French ,Comie, Terrorist lover Communiss is bad cause u can't get rich and buy hot bitches. Many people say money isn't impormant those people need to go fuck them selfs and should die a slowand firey death at Zong. And yes if I ofended u get over it ya french loving MudPirate

[Evannator]

I believe one of the beliefs in marxism or lenninism, is that you should not stop to help anyone, but only help yourself. This means the leaders of a communist nation would never help their people, no matter how imporvershed they are, they would most likely let their citizens die out, until their government ultimately falls. So thats one aspect that makes communism shitty.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

in short term COMMUNOSM IS BAD AND DOESNT WORK

[J1m]

In theory, communism sounds great. (everyone gets the same thing, and the same amount of it.) However, it never turns out great.
For example, Country X is a dirt poor communist country. The country can barely afford rations of even the smallest size. Now, the entire population gets the same pint sized ration.
Better yet, Country X has recently become dirt poor due to its new regime converting the country to communism. This happened because the population knew that they would all get the same rations, no matter how great their accomplishments were, and no matter how hard they worked. With this knowledge of what they were getting, the will to make a profit has vanished. The desire to make a profit is one of the key components in an economy. Without, there will be no entrepreneurs making the next big thing, no studies to find the best new medicine. Everyone will stick to the same secure jobs, and the economy will slope downward until this changes. Not to mention, there would be a very weak market.
In short, communism is an excellent ideal on paper, but when applied to the real world, it does not employ all the necessary components of a strong economy.

[Tancrisism]

At 3/18/07 10:11 PM, StrawberryCat wrote:

Sure they limit the press and free speech, but come on. It would skyrocket our economy too.

Like mentioned above. People will become lazy, and the economy will suffer from it. Instead of building 20 items a day, you may end up building only 2 items a day, because for you it doesn't really matter. You don't give a fuck.

Fear is a good motivator. A new light is shed on my understanding of the realities of communism; this laziness is another good reason for communism to turn totalitarian like it invariably has throughout history, excluding the few temporarily successful communes scattered throughout the world.

[KIGERT]

At 3/15/07 04:17 AM, Jordanog wrote: I see all kinds of pros: Lack of greed and envy. No bums. Same slice of the pie as the Johnsons across the street.
Sure they limit the press and free speech, but come on. It would skyrocket our economy too. Sorry if I sound un-American, but do we really have anything to fear from a spreading form of government which proceeds to create an organized work force?

You dont sound unamerican to some extent you raise a good point it would be good in theory but there is unfortunately people who would screw it up and throw the system up. Look at the USSR it was running ok till corruption got hold of them

[emmytee]

Communism come second only fascism in terms of being a really shit system of government. Democracy is flawed too though - "democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried" - Winston Curchill

[gumOnShoe]

At 3/15/07 04:17 AM, Jordanog wrote: I see all kinds of pros: Lack of greed and envy. No bums. Same slice of the pie as the Johnsons across the street.

Its a great idea on paper, and unfortunatly thats all that is ever said about communism. There are a few things you have to realise about communism. First of all, its never been established in our world. What you had in the USSR was more socialism than anything else. Communism involves total equality. The problem with this is that man has a either a competitive spirit where he needs to survive and be better or a lazy one where he just doesn't want to do anything. Also greed hurts.

What you have is a "giveaway" of exactly what you need to survive. So, the lazy won't do work to get anything because they've already got it. Why work when you don't need to, or at least why be productive?

Greed hurts it because some people just can't stand to be equal, they need everything everyone else has. And since these are usually the type of people that need to be better, they are the ones who are going to run the government. So you'll get a disproportionate class system that doesn't belong in communism and you won't have communism.

How could communism work though? Robots.
Robots do the work, you don't have to worry about lazy people. People who want to do things can easily enough. And you can set up a computer to only allow certain laws to be passed which don't infringe on human rights and which don't give the lawmakers a pay raise. Then with communal votes, maybe you can keep everything balanced, maybe. Perhaps the best way to achieve communism is to have a surplus in everything and stop worrying about an economy. Who cares about getting your "fair share" when there is more than enough of everything.

[Buddhist]

At 3/18/07 10:58 PM, mofomojo wrote: For example, in Cuba, the Castros are like some kinda royal family. Is that really fair?

It is if you're a Castro.

I'm Castroted.