For Fuck Sake.
Not content with forcing religious adoption agencies to allow gays to adopt from them, despite it being against the reigion of the agency, Gay rights organisations are now introducing gay relationships to children as young as four
"It is being argued that the books, one of which is a fairytale featuring a prince who turns down three princesses before falling in love and marrying a man, are necessary to make homosexuality seem normal to children."
I am disgusted by this PC culture gone fucking mad. Homosexuality seem normal to children? What the fuck happened to teaching reading and writing. A four year old cannot comprehend the underlying issues behind homosexual relationships, and so are being warped from a young age.
My reasoning is this:
Most children will come from a Male/Female relationship background, and so will accept that as the norm. Having come from that background, they will probably not have been specifically told that, this is an acceptable setup.
By teaching kids (age 4 for gods sake) that having two daddies or 2 mummies is acceptable will make them think "well im being told that this is a normal setup, and ive not been told specifically that mum/dad setup is normal, therefore it isnt.
This also leads to awkward questions that shouldnt be raised by kids that young.
Where do babies come from
Mummies tummy.
...Then where did Josh in the story come from, He's got two dads.
I'm all for gay rights and such but this is one step too far.
Sure there should be able to be kids books with gay relationships in them but not
ones solely created for the purpose of saying "lol gay people".
Between this and riding on giant cocks in parades, the gay community doesn't seem very good at showing the rest of the world they're normal. I think they need to hire a PR person.
R.I.P LIVECORPSE
I would like to state that I do not have anything against same sex couples.
I DO have a problem against people forcing their beliefs (religious or otherwise) onto minors or people who are not mentally capable of seeing a larger picture (or any other sides to the argument).
I would be most interested in the 'trial' period of this, and what is 'deemed' as a success.
I believe that such an experiment would need to be long term - and knowing the kind of people who support this endevour it will be rushed and expanded. As for success criteria, the lack of objection would be enough to deem it as an acceptable addition to the childs education.
Either way it will be fixed to look as a victory for Gay movment or as a failure on part of the 'normal' British family to be more accepting (Who will be singled out a s homophobic).
'The most important thing these books do is reflect reality for young children,' said Elizabeth Atkinson
What? That same sex couples are the norm? I hope not.
This is ridiculous. It's not even as if children can comprehend a relationship and what goes into it. It's just to make some angry people happy. Next all the fairy tales will just be a battleground for political correctness. Cinderella's fairy godmother won't just make sure she turns up to the ball.
Give my thoughts form and make them look insightful.
I'm for it.
Because these aren't graphic porn. I've never seen an illustration of anal penetration, and carpet licking.
It's putting homosexuality in the SIMPLIEST and most understandable way for children: "It's a different kind of love," As one children's book, Daddy's Roommate, once put it.
And it's NOT about equality and that bullshit in class.
It's not about upsetting "norm" as heterosexuals know it with the battle cry, "We're here, we're queer... get used to it."
And least of all,
It's not about "recruiting" them.
It's about giving them a better understanding of the world... without giving them too much information. And this is what gay children's lit attemts to do: explain without giving too much explicit information until their minds are mature.
Because let's face it...
Queers are here. We gotta get used to it. (At least their presence... you don't have to accept them.)
So whats better having two parents (Them being the same sex or not.) Or having no parents at all?
Me personally, yeah the kid will have questions but its better than living in a dingy building waiting for two 24 year old man and woman who have as much maturity as the 2 dozen 3 year olds at home.
another step forward for ultra liberal UK. personally, i would homeschool my kid (if i had any) at this point because PC is simply getting out of hand and its being shoved down the throats of.... 4 year olds.last thing i wanna see is my boy grow up to be a pillow biter because he was taught in school that it is ok and morally acceptable to do so. being one who instead of calling himself a "conservative" or "liberal" I prefer to ponder on many matters and find the wisdom behind the choices, and frankly, i see no wisdom behind same sex marriages, except the fact that gays can't have children, which is good population control.
so, the question is, what's next for the gay movement? international homosexuality month where teachers have to teach about it in schools? i hope not.
I'm not crazy, everyone else is.
I'm all for equality and stuff, but come on. Give them a few more years at least until they can comprehend that there are different familys out there. At age 4, I had no comprehension that there were different people in the world.
yeah it's too far. Kids need to decide for themselves what's common and what's rare but still acceptable
It is sad that its getting to the stage where you actually have to tell your kids not to believe what they are told in school.
Kids should not be told that gay families are normal. Yes they exist and should be accepted, but telling the kids that two dads / mums is the norm will raise all kinds of problem.
It is warping impressionable minds from an early age.
There's a good side--private schools are going to get lot of new business.
The hypocrisy of these liberal fuckoffs astounds me, it's not okay to indoctrinate kids in public schools into a specific religion, but it's okay to indoctrinate them into a political ideology regarding gays?
Well I guess the prince and the other dude become queens in the end ha!
Children are hardly capable of understanding a HETEROSEXUAL relationship until they are in their teens, why do people think it would be easier to accept a HOMOSXUAL relationship?
Listen, I'm all for gay rights. These are people we're talking about, and to deny them the right to marry is downright illegal.
But I dunno. This seems like a step too far, and perhaps a bit too sexually motivated for teaching to kids at such a young age.
At 3/13/07 06:22 PM, Bolo wrote: Listen, I'm all for gay rights, but in a democracy the will of the people is reflected, and to force samesex-marriage is downright illegal when most of the population is against it.
Fixed your post.
At 3/13/07 06:24 PM, JakeHero wrote: Listen, I'm all for gay rights, but in a democracy the will of the people is reflected, and to force samesex-marriage is downright illegal when most of the population is against it.
Yes, because gay people aren't really people who belong to a democracy...
They're... magical fairies, and thus creatures, really, and thus--
beings not protected by the Constutution such as equality...
At 3/13/07 07:09 PM, fli wrote: Yes, because gay people aren't really people who belong to a democracy...
They're... magical fairies, and thus creatures, really, and thus--
beings not protected by the Constutution such as equality...
*Cough* Strawman *Cough*
I never stated gay people said. Bolo had the audacity to say it's illegal to deny gay people the rights of marriage, whereas I correct him by saying it would illegal to force gay-marriage when most of the populace is against it.
Well, it would probably work eventually... But I don't think being gay should be taken as normal in that sense.
Bla
Well this is wrong damnit, gay people can do anything they want nowadays because of what happened in the old days. Well arent we even already. This is just the gays playing the gay card to get away with fascism.
At 3/13/07 07:44 PM, JakeHero wrote:At 3/13/07 07:09 PM, fli wrote: Yes, because gay people aren't really people who belong to a democracy...*Cough* Strawman *Cough*
They're... magical fairies, and thus creatures, really, and thus--
beings not protected by the Constutution such as equality...
I never stated gay people said. Bolo had the audacity to say it's illegal to deny gay people the rights of marriage, whereas I correct him by saying it would illegal to force gay-marriage when most of the populace is against it.
AND I said that you were, are, will be... wrong.
Because the legal rights of maritial equality far outweighs popular belief of a majority who, if it weren't checked, would overwhelm the minority.
The majority back 50 to 60 years ago believed the very same thing... it's illegal to force the popular consensus to give the legal right of Blacks to marry Whites if both wanted to do so.
Strawman... my ass.
At 3/13/07 04:11 PM, ReiperX wrote: I'm all for equality and stuff, but come on. Give them a few more years at least until they can comprehend that there are different familys out there. At age 4, I had no comprehension that there were different people in the world.
I think this should pretty much be the end of the conversation.
R.I.P LIVECORPSE
At 3/13/07 05:40 AM, Boltrig wrote: Not content with forcing religious adoption agencies to allow gays to adopt from them, despite it being against the reigion of the agency,
Gee golly gosh, you're right, the kids are that adoption agency's private property, they should be allowed to do whatever they want with them.
At 3/14/07 11:23 AM, Elfer wrote:At 3/13/07 05:40 AM, Boltrig wrote: Not content with forcing religious adoption agencies to allow gays to adopt from them, despite it being against the reigion of the agency,Gee golly gosh, you're right, the kids are that adoption agency's private property, they should be allowed to do whatever they want with them.
So your against religious freedom then? Your all for stripping religious organisations of the right to practice their faith, in favour of making same sex couples more able to pretend they are a regular family.
*Insert cries along lines of "GAY HATER" here*
The religious agencies should be able to turn away gay couples because it clashes with their religious ideology, and always has done. If you are SO in favour of gay adoption, pull funding away from other areas of childcare, and finance bigger capacity state run adoption agencies.
See how much youre still in favour of it when your child comes home from school having learned nothing. There is already a topic about this here.
This topic is about gay relationships being introduced to children as young as four, so that they will see them as normal.
At 3/14/07 12:34 PM, Boltrig wrote: So your against religious freedom then? Your all for stripping religious organisations of the right to practice their faith, in favour of making same sex couples more able to pretend they are a regular family.
Why should religous adoption agencies recieve government money if they're going to descriminate? As far as I know,
They are FREE to practice what they believe... just so long they don't use government money in inappropriate ways. So it comes to this:
Either they recieve public money and abide to its rules,
or depend on charity of people and maintain its own rules.
*Insert cries along lines of "GAY HATER" here*The religious agencies should be able to turn away gay couples because it clashes with their religious ideology, and always has done. If you are SO in favour of gay adoption, pull funding away from other areas of childcare, and finance bigger capacity state run adoption agencies.
See how much youre still in favour of it when your child comes home from school having learned nothing. There is already a topic about this here.
This topic is about gay relationships being introduced to children as young as four, so that they will see them as normal.
Religious agencies shouldn't... unless they can be a self sufficient agency that is able to call its own shots.
And these books aren't being introduced to set the norm...
It's describing in the simpliest words, in a way a kid can understand, what children as young as four already know... something that's already the norm.
We as parents shouldn't be trying to censor what's in this world... kids have ears and eyes, and if they've watched TV... more than likely they already know what is "gay." Except that, it will be vague and very confusing.
So instead, we should introduce them very slowly and progressively adjust them. For the sake of clarifying them what's already the norm but not discussed. They don't need to know the mechanics of homosexuality. It's like a pregnant mother trying to explain where baby's come from... children don't need to know about the mechanics of a pregnancy such as sex, and those issues yet. All they need to know that babies come "from mommy's belly." (That's how my little cousin once told me innocently.)
Like wise,
all they need to know about homosexuality is, as "Daddy's Roommate" once put, "is a different kind of love."
At 3/14/07 02:30 PM, fli wrote:
all they need to know about homosexuality is, as "Daddy's Roommate" once put, "is a different kind of love."
If that's the case, we should also tell and show 4 year olds how Homosexuality is also not normal biologically.
It's only fair after all since biologically it isn't the norm.
At 3/14/07 02:30 PM, fli wrote: So instead, we should introduce them very slowly and progressively adjust them. For the sake of clarifying them what's already the norm but not discussed. They don't need to know the mechanics of homosexuality. It's like a pregnant mother trying to explain where baby's come from... children don't need to know about the mechanics of a pregnancy such as sex, and those issues yet. All they need to know that babies come "from mommy's belly." (That's how my little cousin once told me innocently.)
Homosexuality is NOT the norm though. A lot less than 50% of children have background involving same sex relationships. Telling them that homosexuality at the very impressionable age of 4 is misleading them on the subject of what is a normal background.
Teach acceptance yes, but leave it untill they are old enough to understand it without the use of fairy tales in which prince charming kisses the frog, spurns the resulting princess and buggers off with the stable boy.
Like wise,
all they need to know about homosexuality is, as "Daddy's Roommate" once put, "is a different kind of love."
Please tell me why four year olds, fresh into the education system having watched nothing more political than sesame street since age 2, need to know about homosexuality. Normal relationships are complex to understand at best.
Take this situation:
Your four year old asks you, "whats a relationship?" You tell them that theyll find out when theyre older. So why then does the PC crown feel the need for them to know about homosexual relationships at that age?
At 3/14/07 03:03 PM, Memorize wrote: It's only fair after all since biologically it isn't the norm.
Biologically, it's been found to be exhibited in monkeys, and even the ancient Greeks engaged in sodomy.
It does occur naturally in many species, and although they are in the minority (mainly because it isn't possible for them to produce children, biologically.) To say that it isn't "normal" is a bit of a mischaracterization.
Up to 5% of some species of animals engage in homosexual relationships at some point, I've read in NewScientist.
At 3/14/07 03:26 PM, Bolo wrote:At 3/14/07 03:03 PM, Memorize wrote: It's only fair after all since biologically it isn't the norm.Biologically, it's been found to be exhibited in monkeys, and even the ancient Greeks engaged in sodomy.
It does occur naturally in many species, and although they are in the minority (mainly because it isn't possible for them to produce children, biologically.) To say that it isn't "normal" is a bit of a mischaracterization.
Up to 5% of some species of animals engage in homosexual relationships at some point, I've read in NewScientist.
But the point being made is that 5% is not the norm. In some places among the human population, the percentage of the population admitting to being gay rises to 10%. Even this is not the norm considering the other 90% are straight.
Let me put this to you, if being gay is so normal, and should be taught to kids, then why are a larege number of gays still hung up on 'coming out'. If its so normal they have nothing but acceptance to look forward to.
Meh. There's too many heterosexually themed books out there for a couple of gay ones to make a huge difference, even if it did matter.
Die Kunst ist Tot! Dada Uber Alles!
Not to be a wet towel here but whatever happened to letting children be children.
I mean, hell I didn't know what sex was untill the 4th grade( The Miracle of Life and where Babies are From) and didn't even understand the mechaics of if till 7 grade(First interaction of Porn).
My knowledge of gay people up to that point was P-Town(Provincetown for the real name, the largest gay community in New England which is actually quite sad considering how the gay community destroyed the original Portugeese fishing village and it's culture and replaced it with stores like Spank the Monkey, that sell dildo's up to 14 inches long and with spikes sticking out of it. Seriously, how does a guy fit this up his ass when it looks like it should belond in a torture chamber)
In short, let kids be kids.
Between the idea And the reality
Between the motion And the act, Falls the Shadow
An argument in Logic
At 3/14/07 03:34 PM, Boltrig wrote:At 3/14/07 03:26 PM, Bolo wrote:But the point being made is that 5% is not the norm. In some places among the human population, the percentage of the population admitting to being gay rises to 10%. Even this is not the norm considering the other 90% are straight.At 3/14/07 03:03 PM, Memorize wrote: It's only fair after all since biologically it isn't the norm.Biologically, it's been found to be exhibited in monkeys, and even the ancient Greeks engaged in sodomy.
It does occur naturally in many species, and although they are in the minority (mainly because it isn't possible for them to produce children, biologically.) To say that it isn't "normal" is a bit of a mischaracterization.
Up to 5% of some species of animals engage in homosexual relationships at some point, I've read in NewScientist.
Yes, I know that homosexuality is a minority, but Memorize tried to characterize it as "Unnatural." I was merely proving that many organisms in nature exhibit such tendencies.
Let me put this to you, if being gay is so normal, and should be taught to kids, then why are a larege number of gays still hung up on 'coming out'. If its so normal they have nothing but acceptance to look forward to.
Sorry, you apparently haven't read the entire thread, including my previous comments. I don't believe that homosexuality OR heterosexuality should be taught to YOUNG kids. Wait until they are capable of comprehending sexuality and responses.
And regarding the in-the-closet gays; You know, and I know, that over the last 500-800 years, the Church establishments across the world have all but condemned homosexuals, and in some cases during the middle ages, and in muslim countries today, homosexuals are executed merely for their sexual preferences.
Discrimination is incredibly ingrained in our society, as much as, if not more than discrimination against black people. Certainly, the cries of poor homosexuals being hung by angry Klan members, and many evangelicals in the southern US, convinced that "God told them to kill as many gay people as possible", have fallen on deaf ears, as politicians, blinded by their own biases, turned the other cheek as the noose fell heavily upon the necks of innocent citizens.
Gays have a LOT to be afraid of, in coming out to the world; How are they going to be accepted when the biases against them are so heavy? If they're in the military, will they lose their job, their livelihood? Only recently have they gained enough respect to be recognized and protected under the laws. Don't pull out that card about them not coming out because society will "accept them with open arms". That's often NOT the case, at all.
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