Ive been thinking...

[Mitok]

I've been suffering through insomnia, my mind constantly going through random thoughts and memories whe I'm trying to sleep. Last night was really weird, and now I've decided to support communism. Not the Chinese kind, the Venezuelan kind. Discuss.

[DoomBagel]

You're an idiot. How is that for discussion?

[Mitok]

At 3/8/07 09:51 PM, DoomBagel wrote: You're an idiot. How is that for discussion?

You're an ignorant troll that must take all controversial threads and turn them into flame wars.

[Korriken]

you should meditate, seriously, sit still, clear your mind and meditate, after a couple of weeks you will be able to sleep as normal.

meditate for about 15 mins to 1 hour a day. sit in a quiet place, clear your mind, and focus on the back of your eyelids.

[DoomBagel]

What makes this thread controversial? You saying so? Or is anything associated with Che Guevara so?

[Mitok]

At 3/8/07 10:03 PM, DoomBagel wrote: What makes this thread controversial? You saying so? Or is anything associated with Che Guevara so?

Basically, thanks to the recent raid of newbs and alts, anything that goes outside of American government is controversial. Look, let's not make this a flame-war thread. I'm stressed out and /b/ isn't helping, so this is the last thing i need.

/b/ has never failed me before...

[cellardoor6]

At 3/8/07 09:46 PM, Mitok wrote: I've been suffering through insomnia, my mind constantly going through random thoughts and memories whe I'm trying to sleep. Last night was really weird, and now I've decided to support communism. Not the Chinese kind, the Venezuelan kind. Discuss.

The Venezuelan kind is still piece of shit. Ever since Chavez came into power, hundreds of thousands of people have left and come to the US to escape his communist rule. He has shut down opposition media, taken over people's private property and businesses, he has imprisoned people who speak out against his policies, and he has given himself absolute power.

He is a dictator... there is no freedom under Chavez. That is what happens in EVERY SINGLE socialist/communist country, always. An evil, sly talking socialist who pretends that he only wants power to enforce equality uses his deception to brainwash people into voting for him and giving him as much power as possible.

Then years later, all the promises made to help the poor haven't been fulfilled and now they just have a dysfunctional, ruthless leader who controls the economy and the entire country, and yet the poverty hasn't been alleviated at all. Then, once people realize that Chavez has done NOTHING good for the country, they can't do anything about it or vote him out of office because they gave him absolute power in the first place!

Chavez has openly used his power to destroy any opposition in his country. And the ridiculous thing is that he calls George Bush a dictator, meanwhile the last time I checked, we still have freedom of speech in this country, George Bush hasn't SHUT DOWN media outlets just for speaking against him, George Bush didn't give himself power to make laws by decree... All these things Chavez has done..

What Chavez did to the opposition media in Venezuela would be like George Bush shutting down CNN, NBC, and CBS for speaking out against him.

What Chavez did to the Venezuelan constitution would be like George Bush taking all the power away from Congress and the Supreme Court and give himself power to personally make all the laws, and all the decisions of the entire country.

What Chavez did to the Venezuelan economy would be like George Bush personally taking over all manufacturing and energy companies that Americans people have created for themselves, and personally making all the macroeconomic decisions of the country.

Socialism fails, period. It doesn't matter how wonderful it sounds when a deceptive public speaker pretends that it will create equality. Because in the end, in order for them to enforce this equality, they have to be given ENORMOUS amounts of power to control the entire country. And with that power, the people no longer have a say, and all you have in reality is a fascist government that only pretended to be socialist to get its power.

Socialism, especially like the kind Chavez as created...well it FAILS. It always has and it always will.

[Elfer]

At 3/8/07 10:18 PM, Mitok wrote: Look, let's not make this a flame-war thread. I'm stressed out and /b/ isn't helping, so this is the last thing i need.

/b/ has never failed me before...

/b/ is not spoken of when you have a name.

[Der-Lowe]

At 3/8/07 09:46 PM, Mitok wrote: I've been suffering through insomnia, my mind constantly going through random thoughts and memories whe I'm trying to sleep. Last night was really weird, and now I've decided to support communism. Not the Chinese kind, the Venezuelan kind. Discuss.

It's not bad to have that ideology. no matter what some people say.
What do you like about the Chavez administration?
Myself, I like his attitude with other fellow Southamerican countries, he has landed in the Jorge Newbery airport (one of the two airports Buenos Aires has) 2 hours ago, and gives aid and makes businesses with us actually. That's what I like about him, personally.

[DoomBagel]

Everything eventually fails.

Communism/socialism sounds good. It's just too bad we will never see a true form of it as people will always find a way to benefit a few at the expense of others.

[morefngdbs]

At 3/8/07 09:46 PM, Mitok wrote: I've been suffering through insomnia, Last night was really weird, and now I've decided to support communism. Not the Chinese kind, the Venezuelan kind. Discuss.

;
Have you got your bags packed yet?
You should get yourself down to Venezuela & start living the good life, oh yeah!
Don't forget to write us here & tell us just how great it all is.

[Der-Lowe]

At 3/9/07 08:58 AM, morefngdbs wrote: Have you got your bags packed yet?
You should get yourself down to Venezuela & start living the good life, oh yeah!
Don't forget to write us here & tell us just how great it all is.

Your argument is not valid, Venezuela isn't a poor country because of Chavez's "socialism", it has used libertarian policies during the 90's, with little success, and socialist countries arent't the only poor countries.

[morefngdbs]

At 3/9/07 10:07 PM, Der-Lowe wrote:

At 3/9/07 08:58 AM, morefngdbs wrote: Don't forget to write us here & tell us just how great it all is.

Your argument is not valid, Venezuela isn't a poor country because of Chavez's "socialism", it has used libertarian policies during the 90's, with little success, and socialist countries arent't the only poor countries.

;
How isn't it valid?
He has a touch of insomnia so he then comes up with becoming a supporter of Chavez's radical attempt to 'socialize' his country.
By seizing the assests of Companies, who were legally contracted to do business there he is in effect shutting the door ,to future investment from large corporations & the world banking community.

If you look at any country on the planet that has been sanctioned by the world banks & leading Countries, whether ti has been self imposed exile ie;North Korea, or something more like the Iraq or Cuban embargo's the people are the ones who suffer.
Those in control continue to live the good life, it's the average joe-blow & their families who suffer.

SO all I'm pointing out is why not go down there & see for his own gratification , what a wonderful system is now in place.
Lets also not forget that the infastructure that is set up there is in need of constant repair & upgrades.
Traditionally when you isolate yourself in this global community, the availability of equipment ,and the expertise to keep everything working diminishes. Your system then begins breaking down & so your profitability also suffers.
Which will directly affect the poor.

[Peter-II]

At 3/8/07 11:14 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: That is what happens in EVERY SINGLE socialist/communist country, always. An evil, sly talking socialist who pretends that he only wants power to enforce equality uses his deception to brainwash people into voting for him and giving him as much power as possible.

Sweden, anyone?

[Brick-top]

When I cant sleep I think of sex, fast cars and a HUGE tele. Then I hit the deck and I sleep.

[Der-Lowe]

At 3/10/07 01:02 PM, morefngdbs wrote: How isn't it valid?
He has a touch of insomnia so he then comes up with becoming a supporter of Chavez's radical attempt to 'socialize' his country.
By seizing the assests of Companies, who were legally contracted to do business there he is in effect shutting the door ,to future investment from large corporations & the world banking community.

If you look at any country on the planet that has been sanctioned by the world banks & leading Countries, whether ti has been self imposed exile ie;North Korea, or something more like the Iraq or Cuban embargo's the people are the ones who suffer.

Not always true, we screwed our creditors and nothing happened, our economy is happily growing at chinese rates for 5 years now.

Those in control continue to live the good life, it's the average joe-blow & their families who suffer.

Families are suffering less, because the profits from the oil companies are going right into the poor, instead of abroad.

SO all I'm pointing out is why not go down there & see for his own gratification , what a wonderful system is now in place.
Lets also not forget that the infastructure that is set up there is in need of constant repair & upgrades.
Traditionally when you isolate yourself in this global community, the availability of equipment ,and the expertise to keep everything working diminishes. Your system then begins breaking down & so your profitability also suffers.
Which will directly affect the poor.

I'm not supporting Chavez's socialism, what I say is that the cause of the actual situation of Venezuela is not Chavez's system, since it has been a few months since he decided to take control of private companies, and that we can't blame him. We'll see in a decade or so how things turned out.

[Kenzu]

So you became a communist?

Shall we applaud you?
I don't think so...
It is easy to become a communist, but much harder to stay one.

But you are on the right path!

[AIDSextravaganza]

haha i go through the same shit
the chinese arent real communists tho
not at all.. they are just self proclaimed communists
the chinese have a capitalistic economy and that goes completely against communism.... also they have social classes which also goes against communism
the venezuelan kind is basically the same situation minus in venezuela they are now helping people

[Begoner]

At 3/8/07 11:14 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: The Venezuelan kind is still piece of shit. Ever since Chavez came into power, hundreds of thousands of people have left and come to the US to escape his communist rule.

Actually, ever since Chavez came to power, there was a steady decrease in the net emigration rate (ie, the number of immigrants increased in comparison to the number of emigrants). That statistic used to be negative, as many people fled the country; now, it is no longer less than 0.

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=ve&v=27

He has shut down opposition media

No, he has failed to renew their license due to the treasonous activities in which they partook (supporting an authoritarian coup would be an offense worthy of being taken to a wall and shot in some countries, but not in Venezuela).

taken over people's private property and businesses

Can you cite any examples of this? Other than large corporations, of course; has he usurped control of the coffee shop down the street? The shoemaker's store? Or just enormous oil companies?

he has imprisoned people who speak out against his policies

Can you cite a source to corroborate this?

He is a dictator

Actually, he was democratically elected in a landslide victory (which is more than can be said for some North American dictators). In fact, when people were asked to vote about how they felt about democracy in their country, Venezuela came in second only to Uruguay in all of Latin America.

http://www.cepr.net/index.php?option=com_cont ent&task=view&id=373#article
http://www.zmag.org/sustainers/content/2004-0 8/18wilpert.cfm

That is what happens in EVERY SINGLE socialist/communist country, always.

Yes, either that or there is a right-wing coup led by business interests and the elite which results in a despot seizing power (Spain, Chile, etc.).

An evil, sly talking socialist

Are you seriously calling Chavez "sly-talking"? The man rambles on and on to seemingly no end without having said anything. He goes on mindless tirades in which he criticized the West, only to end up talking about James Bond, how he favors Sean Connery in the role, and other miscellaneous items.

Then years later, all the promises made to help the poor haven't been fulfilled

Not true. The percentage of people living below the poverty line has been slashed by 15% under Chavez's tenure.

and yet the poverty hasn't been alleviated at all.

Again, that it a flawed statement. Poverty has been greatly alleviated due to Chavez's socialist techniques which cater to the poor, not the rich.

http://www.globalissues.org/HumanRights/Media /Propaganda/Venezuela.asp#VenezuelasEconomyan dPoverty

Chavez has openly used his power to destroy any opposition in his country.

No, he really hasn't. Anyone is free to speak out against Chavez or to broadcast anti-Chavez messages on the air; however, actively attempting to foment an authoritarian coup against a democratically-elected government crosses the line. Even in the US, a television station would be shut down if it advocated that. Venezuela is one of the freest democracies in the world; it is certainly more so than the US.

George Bush didn't give himself power to make laws by decree...

Chavez hasn't done that either. The congressional representatives in the country, who were directly elected by the people, gave him that power as a sign of widespread support for has actions which are propelling Venezuela forward economically and socially.

[zendahl]

I would bet that if a bum walked into some of theese wanabe comunists houses and started eating half of the food, sitting their couch watching tv, and trying to share everything, they would become capitolists real quick. People hate sharing the things they earned with the people who didn't. Just a theory though, I could be wrong.

[GRAFITTi]

At 3/8/07 09:46 PM, Mitok wrote: I've been suffering through insomnia, my mind constantly going through random thoughts and memories whe I'm trying to sleep. Last night was really weird, and now I've decided to support communism. Not the Chinese kind, the Venezuelan kind. Discuss.

Why are you living in a America if you say what you say you are?

[gunground]

honestly communism is fine....unless its forced onto people. If the people want communism go ahead but if theres an evil dictator forcing it onto them then communism's bad.

[Kenzu]

At 3/13/07 07:18 PM, AIDSextravaganza wrote: haha i go through the same shit
the chinese arent real communists tho
not at all.. they are just self proclaimed communists
the chinese have a capitalistic economy and that goes completely against communism.... also they have social classes which also goes against communism
the venezuelan kind is basically the same situation minus in venezuela they are now helping people

The Chinese party doesnt claim China to be communist, but socialist. I don't agree with them, since there is too much inequality. Chinese say that the country is too poor to achieve socialism yet, and that's why they focus on building up a strong economy.

But I havent seen China making any progress towards socialism in the last decade.

[K-RadPie]

The main reason "True" communism will never happen is because if a paper boy makes as much money as a surgeon, nobody will educated.

[EKublai]

I would deem it unwise to linger over these dreams Harry. It would be better if you just... Cast them away

[Der-Lowe]

At 3/15/07 12:34 AM, EKublai wrote: I would deem it unwise to linger over these dreams Harry. It would be better if you just... Cast them away

You're not making any sense XD

[MidgetHobo]

I've been thinking...

Don't, just don't.