Should it be legal everywhere?

[MortalWound]

This is a... touchy... subject and I have a feeling that this thread may get locked(why i do not know) but I'll state it anyways. There is a form of hentai (cartoon porn), out there called lolicon . If you don't know what it is just click the damn link. But anyways, it is illegal in every country except Japan and Sweden I believe.

My question is to you all is, do you think it should be legalized everywhere? Why or why not?

My answer to this is that it should be legal. Some people who look at it are called pedofiles but I don't see how considering the people and images in it are drawn and depict fictional scenarios. The people in it are not real so they can not have any feeling, have no remorse, and can't suffer any mental damage what so ever. So what is the big deal?

Some people say it is a short step away from looking at real children doing unspeakable acts but i find this statement invalid. I mean, people play games like grand theft auto and have fun blowing the living crap out of everything they see but they would never do it in real life. Just because it looks like it could make a person think one way, doesn't mean it will.

[Eoewe]

It depicts nude underaged children for the sole purpose of sexual gratification. It is appalling and anyone making that needs to be shot.

[JudgeDredd]

It's a perfectly valid topic.

Some will say it's the thin end of the wedge; As rendering techniques improve the lifelike images will become dangerously similar to the real thing. Others will say the opposite; As the rendering improves, it safely or harmlessly negates or fulfills any demand for real child pornography.

This still comes down to whether one believes porn either stimulates or otherwise satiates fantasies and desire. The child aspect is a highly emotional one, but the underlying argument is still fantasy vs desire. As long as the general populus (say like Japans) has a good grasp on what constitutes pure fantasy, and what definately doesn't, then there seems little evidence to suggest there's increase risk of criminal thought patterns from purveying such material.

Noticably, the stronger a country's actual moral fabric is, the more tolerance given as media continually push the envelope for what is considered morally acceptable or unacceptable.

[Fire-Stream]

Hmmm, if it is illegal then i wouldnt recomend clicking the link unless u live in one of those countries.

Lolicon has been getting alot of attention on BBS's around the net, with people saying its a gate way to CP, or its just a form of not-so-illegal fix for certain individuas out there.

But when it comes down to it, its a cartoon, it is pure fantatsy. No children are involved, no illegal act is actually being made unless graphic design is and manga etc is outlawed now.

That being said, i dnt like it, because it does represent something immoral and disgusting even if it just a cartoon.

I suspect there will be alot more tighter sanctions when it comes to these types of sites, but untill then know that there is no REAL law for the internet. only the laws in which ure accessing it from. The internet is still free speech & expression

[xscoot]

It matters what context it is in. If it is tasteful and portrayed in a funny or violoent way, whatever in relation to what is being shown, then it is a bit more acceptable. But having it just for pornographical purposes is wrong in all places. Many people will hate the whole genre anyway, so it doesn't even matter that much.

[xscoot]

At 3/4/07 09:36 AM, Fire-Stream wrote: Hmmm, if it is illegal then i wouldnt recomend clicking the link unless u live in one of those countries.

That link leads to an information only wikipedia page.

[JakeHero]

Anyone that gets a hard-on from looking at child pornography is disgusting and should not allowed in this world.

[EndGameOmega]

At 3/4/07 04:41 AM, MortalWound wrote: This is a... touchy... subject and I have a feeling that this thread may get locked(why i do not know) but I'll state it anyways. There is a form of hentai (cartoon porn), out there called lolicon . If you don't know what it is just click the damn link. But anyways, it is illegal in every country except Japan and Sweden I believe.

Actually Its also legal in the USA too, and I believe quite a few other countries as well. Also I don't think NG would lock this tread simply because the question is 'unpopular', only if it's a rehash of another thread with no new content. The mods seam to be pretty good with alowing others to express there ideas on this forum, even when they disagree with the posers position.

My question is to you all is, do you think it should be legalized everywhere? Why or why not?

I personally see no way to legalize it. Its perfectly valid under the 1st amendment as free speech; No child or person was hurt by producing it, and it is (though you might not like it) artistic in nature.

Some people say it is a short step away from looking at real children doing unspeakable acts but i find this statement invalid. I mean, people play games like grand theft auto and have fun blowing the living crap out of everything they see but they would never do it in real life. Just because it looks like it could make a person think one way, doesn't mean it will.

Agreed, there is no direct link between lolicon and actual CP. If anything there would be a negative correlation, as a potential pedophile would have a legal outlet for there dysfunction over actual children. Lolicon is by far more preferable then havening actual kids hurt.

In addition it could allow for those who are unaware of there mental disorder to come to terms with it and seek help before they actual lash out at an unsuspecting person.

[TonioMiguel]

I would be very careful in saying something has a better impact. Anything that substitutes for something else can be turned into a catalyst that leads people down a path of immorality.

I understand that back 2000 years ago both Greeks and Romans were well known for using prepubescent boys for sexual gratification. I do not feel this practice needs to ever become normalized. Destruction of innocence is dangerous and destructive.

I feel as a child who was abused it is my right to say that this is in fact a horrible alternative to the real thing. The mind has to cloud out things immoral in order to get away from it. Pedophiles will no reform because now they can look at it. Like alcohol and drugs the only way to cure yourself is to close it off from ourselves. The reason why many nations fight sexual child abuse is because it is viewed as wrong. The more we accept lolicon the more we could in fact accept more horrible acts in the future. American still has to put a stop to the man boy love group which is gaining grounds in the country.

I for one am not huge on censorship of since many mange are that depict child nudity in innocence like Zatch bell and Young Goku are not harmful. Yet, depiction of child eroticism is not okay because in many ways it is loss of innocence.

Crossing this line is not a smart or artistically acceptable practice.

[specimen56]

Again, I'd like to point to the fact it may well help peadophiles. Sadomasochistic tendencies can be outlived through role-play, and if this helps a person who would otherwise be abusing children, even if it helps in one more case than it may cause, then I'm all for it, personally.

[packow]

At 3/4/07 05:18 AM, Eoewe wrote: It depicts nude underaged children for the sole purpose of sexual gratification. It is appalling and anyone making that needs to be shot.

So, in your opinion, all pedophiles need to be shot?

Just because a person is aroused by children doesn't mean that this person actually molests children.

Pedophilia is a mental condition. People to not choose to be pedophiles. They DO choose to molest children, though.

But most pedophiles REALIZE that their fetish is harmful to children and socially unacceptable, so they choose NOT to act on their impulses.

I say, if a pedophile can satisfy his urges through CARTOON child porn instead of through actually molesting children, give them their cartoon porn!

[MANCUBIS]

i see no difference between this and pedophillia as far as i kno this is just a softened form or hardcore kiddie porn (exe 2 grown men raping a 5 yr old girl or something horribly disturbing like that)

[BLRebel303]

it involes underage girls normally being raped ILLEGAL

You have got to be kidding me! You sick fuck!

[Boltrig]

The rednecks have arrived!

The last few posts are contributing nothing valuable.

If you think its wrong then give reasons. Personally, i think its distasteful, but less hrmfull than atual CP. Its a two edged blade though. If acts as a rehab tool for CP users, fair enough. but if it acts as a gateway for otherwise normal people, then its validity is questionable.

Jesus Christ. It really is over isn't it? All the things that we have achieved in such short time, wasted in a few decades.

[Boltrig]

<issues>

At 3/8/07 05:38 PM, zeus-almighty wrote: Jesus Christ. It really is over isn't it? All the things that we have achieved in such short time, wasted in a few decades.

</issues>

[ShardStorm]

It's fricking twisted, but I don't know if it should be illegal. This is definitely one of those things tht wouldn't exist without the internet or Japan...

[Brick-top]

Its sick yes but its fictional. I mean if you read a book about a child being beaten would the book be banned for child abuse? No it wouldn’t. When kids play these video games with sex, violence and bad language in it are they banned because the characters in there are dying horrible deaths, and the kids are getting ideas? No its not. They may have age limits but one way or another the kids are going to get their hands on it.

I once got a pop-up for a website called Violent-comix. The main picture consisted of the title and a naked woman getting one of those gags things in her mouth. It looked like a ball with string on either end.

I searched this a little and the horrific pictures I found were just.......sickening. However I felt nothing for the woman in it. Not because i’m a heartless bastard it was because they are fictional. You see as long as it isn't real it doesn’t matter. It isn’t what you think with you're imagination its what you do with it.

And if they outlaw this why not outlaw all the violent, sexual and basically 'bad' games, films and cartoons. But they don’t because they think "It's an image, so its bad"

[Yusuke-Urameshi]

It should be legal everywhere.Hell,if pedophiles get this images they can satisfy there urges with this instead of on real children,or real child pornography.Also,not everyone who looks at lolicon is a pedophile.Not only that but real children are not harmed at all,so why should it be banned?

[emmytee]

Whats the fucking point lol

And wiki says its legal in the UK..... for now

[MortalWound]

At 3/8/07 08:39 PM, Yusuke-Urameshi wrote: Not only that but real children are not harmed at all,so why should it be banned?

I know what you're tryin to say but it kinda came out wrong...

Anyways, If people really think that lolicons is bad i could tell you about 50 things at least that are worse than lolicon. For instance (now i never saw this but my brother said he did) there is some video out there that all it shows is people killing them selves in different ways. He (my brother) said that at the beginning of it, one guy said something like "I'm doing this for the sake of this movie" and then he shot himself. I mean, come on. That greatly surpasses the "dementednes" of lolicon.

I guess the main point with this thread when i started is that why should people care what others do in their private life as long as it doesn't hurt anyone? With lolicon, it isn't supporting pedofiles or child extortionists it is just a drawing that some people find arousing and others say it's disgusting. In my opinion, I'd rather look at lolicon any day than to see some chick who has boobs the size of a damn bus. But anyways that's all i wanna say for right now.

[TheCrazyPotato]

Its hard to say, it doesn't really effect anybody so I suppose better a pedo faps to animated children than real ones (or does something worse)

Its still somewhat disgusting so maybe instead of just a straight out illegalization, anyone caught with it gets sent to some form of mental help? Sorry to the fans out there but hentai is one thing, kiddy hentai is... ick.

[Boltrig]

At 3/10/07 11:46 AM, Asteraith wrote: I looked up some actual lolicon stuff, and I have to say it's pretty damn disgusting. On one hand, I feel that since it is art it isn't technically hurting anyone, but you have to look at this in context. Most of the lolicon art is very much perverse, and from what I can tell often involves forced sex and looks of pain from the "models". The group of men who would find this sort of work arrousing most likely have some very mental issues associated with sex.

100% Agreement with this statement

By leaving this sort of art-work legally available, it helps to blur the line between reality and fantasy, just as actual photographic pedophile porn would.

Contested. If a person had crossed the line and aquired actual CP images, there is no blurring of the line involved. I know what youre trying to put forward, that lolicon porn helps to satiaite the gnawing fact that CP is wrong, but the second part makes no sense. Actual CP has no line between reality and fantasy. The person downloading the actual CP wmust be well aware of what he/she is seeing.

:It affirms in the viewers mind that such impulses are okay, and even if on a subtle level, makes that individual more likely to act on those desires

Take the reverse. A pedophile with issues pertaining to the molestation of kids. If the potential offender is satiated by the fictional CP, it makes them less likely to act on those desires.

It's a difficult issue to touch legally, because it is still artwork. Unlike photographic or video pornography, no act is being committed which can be determined to breaking laws. I firmly believe that art should not be governed by law, because who knows what that would lead to. If you ban a certain form of art for sexual inpropriaty, how long will it be until you can't show killings in movies, or write erotic scenes in books?

Well said. Censorship is always a touchy issue, but especially so around VERY delacate issues like this.

I don't think lolicon is exactley making the world a safer place, but I also don't think that banning it will do more good than harm.

That remains to be seen...

[HaroFreak]

I believe some of us are forgetting (or have no idea) that Japan's age of consent is only 13 years old. Though this does not apply to the legal age for pornography, having one's sexual desires drawn is significantly less destructive than actual child predators on the streets.

[Buffalow]

I feel peoples sexual morals (Excluding child molestation, rape etc.) should stay out of the courtroom.

[Memorize]

At 3/10/07 11:08 PM, Gwarfan wrote: I feel peoples sexual morals (Excluding child molestation, rape etc.) should stay out of the courtroom.

You people feel as if everything you disagree with should stay out of the court room and law.

[Buffalow]

At 3/10/07 11:19 PM, Memorize wrote:

At 3/10/07 11:08 PM, Gwarfan wrote: I feel peoples sexual morals (Excluding child molestation, rape etc.) should stay out of the courtroom.

You people feel as if everything you disagree with should stay out of the court room and law.

Why should what you masterbate to be brought on trial? I'm all for non-abusive porn where all the actors have knowledge about what is going on around them, whatever you fap to should stay on your computer.

[Memorize]

At 3/10/07 11:26 PM, Gwarfan wrote:

I'm all for non-abusive porn where all the actors have knowledge about what is going on around them, whatever you fap to should stay on your computer.

Because children as young as 7 can access it very easily.

I was able to do it at that age.

[Buffalow]

At 3/10/07 11:33 PM, Memorize wrote:

At 3/10/07 11:26 PM, Gwarfan wrote:

I'm all for non-abusive porn where all the actors have knowledge about what is going on around them, whatever you fap to should stay on your computer.

Because children as young as 7 can access it very easily.

I was able to do it at that age.

I don't think you and I are on the same page. I'm talking about the legal status of a type of pornography, and I'm guessing you are talking about access of pornography in general. Because if you were talking about that, then talk to the parents and their internet lax internet site blocking restrictions.