Where's the democracy?

[MarijuanaClock]

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/04/30/iraq_communists030430

Communists not invited to Iraqi leadership meeting
Last Updated Wed, 30 Apr 2003 8:18:59
BAGHDAD - Iraq's Communist party, one of the oldest in the country, wasn't invited to a meeting involving U.S. administrators and Iraqi political, religious and ethnic leaders.

A leading member of the party, banned under Saddam Hussein's regime, says the U.S. has already failed the first test of its promise to bring real democracy to the country.

Jasem al-Helfi says the Americans have ignored one of Iraq's most respected parties and instead brought in their own group of political imports.

"They brought their own parties, external parties. No one knows them. No one know what they're doing," al-Helfi said.

Al-Helfi says he's not interested in the U.S. interim administration or the consultation process. He says the Communist party is looking ahead to the first free elections, about two years away.

His confidence could be warranted if activity around the party's headquarters is any indication. People are stopping by to pick up information, posters and the party newspaper.

The more spacious headquarters of the Iraqi National Accord, made up of U.S.-backed returned exiles, is virtually deserted.

[fourdaddy]

At 5/1/03 03:13 AM, MarijuanaClock wrote: communist sympathizing propaganda

ok, heres why they werent invited:
1) wed do another regime change in a year, since we hate communism
2) the people arent intelligent enough to see that communism can not work, so they will probably support it, puttin them in a worse economic state than they are already
3) in a region with such a powerful economic resource (oil), the is going to be insane corruption in the government, as the leaders will take as much profit as they can, allowing the public to live in poverty, its saddam all over again

[Nirvana13666]

Like I said before Iraqis should decide on what type of government is best for them. I know they might not be ready to make a decision like that but I believe there are political groups that have been waiting for the fall of Saddam to happen. They might have good ideas and the US should hear them out. Iraqis live very differently than US citizens and taking that into consideration communism should be taken into account as a form of government that could work for them.

[Jiperly]

but don't the Iraqi people have the RIGHT to choose their own government?

[Nirvana13666]

At 5/1/03 12:04 PM, Jiperly wrote: but don't the Iraqi people have the RIGHT to choose their own government?

Do we?

It is all about power. They will let the political parties that has the most power or which ever is the majority have their say. In the end I don’t think all the Iraqi people will happy but I guess it is better then Saddam..right?

[TheShrike]

Boo-fucking-hoo.

If there is a large enough demand for communism in Iraq, they'll be heard.

[FUNKbrs]

I DO think that the communists should be allowed to be a political party in Iraq. I mean, the us uses many communist policies, like welfare, a graduated income tax, and a death tax. Just because we call our communists "liberals" doesnt really change the validity of certain points on the platform. Communists put compassion in government, although they overdo it most of the time.

[bumcheekcity]

They're not inviting the communists? Thats tremendously nice of them. I still say the funniest thing that could happen was that the Iraqui people elect the Baath government in next.

[JMHX]

At 5/1/03 02:18 PM, bumcheekcity wrote: They're not inviting the communists? Thats tremendously nice of them. I still say the funniest thing that could happen was that the Iraqui people elect the Baath government in next.

I could see that happening. But since we're not actually going to let them choose, I think we know what will be next. Here, I found this paper given to Iraqi citizens to choose their government.

-- Government Selection Ballot --
1. Pro-American Government
2. American-Led Iraqi Democracy
3. Corporate Democracy
4. Iraqi-led, American based government.

Yes!

[Jiperly]

At 5/1/03 12:53 PM, Nirvana13666 wrote:

At 5/1/03 12:04 PM, Jiperly wrote: but don't the Iraqi people have the RIGHT to choose their own government?

Do we?

i'm a Canadian citizen, but i do know for a fact that there are Communist parties out there you can vote for.....so yes. yes we do have that right.

[Alejandro1]

At 5/1/03 01:29 PM, FUNKbrs wrote: I DO think that the communists should be allowed to be a political party in Iraq. I mean, the us uses many communist policies, like welfare, a graduated income tax, and a death tax. Just because we call our communists "liberals" doesnt really change the validity of certain points on the platform. Communists put compassion in government, although they overdo it most of the time.

Very good, I'm glad that someone else besides me pointed out that the US has a Democratic-Socialist government. I think Iraq should have a Communist political party (the US has one too) among the rest of its parties. I think we should let them pick a government they want, that is, to the extent that the new government wont attack ours.

[Shangui]

Since the cold war, which doesnt seem to be over, US has always bashed communism has the source of all evil. Iraq will have free elections in the futur so I guess it's OK. The real problem is that if the communist party gets elected, US will probably come to sabotage it just like they did with Cuba (the economic embargo).

[Slizor]

I DO think that the communists should be allowed to be a political party in Iraq. I mean, the us uses many communist policies, like welfare, a graduated income tax, and a death tax. Just because we call our communists "liberals" doesnt really change the validity of certain points on the platform. Communists put compassion in government, although they overdo it most of the time.

Very good, I'm glad that someone else besides me pointed out that the US has a Democratic-Socialist government.

You two are insane, the US is nowhere near democractic-Socialism. Welfare policies don't make it Socialist, welfare policies can be followed by right-wing parties who think government should take a parental role in society (see Conservatives 1945-79.) if the US was approaching anything near Socialism then it wouldn't have the massive wealth gap and it wouldn't have the massive military spending.

[Alejandro1]

At 5/1/03 05:10 PM, Shangui wrote: US will probably come to sabotage it just like they did with Cuba (the economic embargo).

The US didn't totally trash the island but the embargo hurt both countries' economies. The whole reason for the embargo was to collapse the Communist government in Cuba, which hasn't happened. I think we should remove the embargo so that we can (like the Europeans) profit from the island.

[Shangui]

Errr... Slizor, OK for the wealth gap, but the military spending has no link : USSR had a very large military budget.

[Shangui]

At 5/1/03 05:26 PM, alejandro1 wrote: The US didn't totally trash the island but the embargo hurt both countries' economies. The whole reason for the embargo was to collapse the Communist government in Cuba, which hasn't happened. I think we should remove the embargo so that we can (like the Europeans) profit from the island.

Amen to that, the embargo no longer serves its original purpose anyway.

[Alejandro1]

At 5/1/03 05:10 PM, Slizor wrote: You two are insane, the US is nowhere near democractic-Socialism. Welfare policies don't make it Socialist, welfare policies can be followed by right-wing parties who think government should take a parental role in society (see Conservatives 1945-79.) if the US was approaching anything near Socialism then it wouldn't have the massive wealth gap and it wouldn't have the massive military spending.

I think you misconstrued me, I never said that the government of the US is a Socialism, I said it is a Democratic-Socialism, or in other words, it combines the two. There are many things that are socialist in our society:

1) Welfare (take from rich and give to people who don't work)
2) Manditory Social Security
3) Billery Clinton and her manditory health care plan
4) Minimum wage (employer is forced to pay more for an employee than he/she is worth)
5) Affirmative action (Employer forced to hire people he/she doesn't want to)
6) 10 athiests in California that actually got to the supreme court with their god in the Pledge of Alleigence suit (adjusting government to meet the needs of a small group)
7) Price supports on food

Although you may not realize it, many of the other governments in the world are mixes of two or more government types.

[Slizor]

I think you misconstrued me, I never said that the government of the US is a Socialism, I said it is a Democratic-Socialism, or in other words, it combines the two. There are many things that are socialist in our society:

1) Welfare (take from rich and give to people who don't work)
2) Manditory Social Security
3) Billery Clinton and her manditory health care plan
4) Minimum wage (employer is forced to pay more for an employee than he/she is worth)
5) Affirmative action (Employer forced to hire people he/she doesn't want to)
6) 10 athiests in California that actually got to the supreme court with their god in the Pledge of Alleigence suit (adjusting government to meet the needs of a small group)

That's democracy, not socialism.

7) Price supports on food

All the things you have mentioned are not Socialist, they are just not totally lassiez-faire. I'm not sure that you understand what Capitalism is....the (defining) pinnacle of Capitalism is not lassiez-faire, that is just the extreme right-wing way of running it and the (defining) pinnacle of socialism isn't state-intervention, that is only part of it.

[karasz]

I think something we are all doing is confusing what is going on...

first of, the new Iraqi government will be a democracy, there will be elections and all that other fun stuff...

the communist party will most likely exist in the country, but if there is a constitution in Iraq, the communist party in Iraq (just like the US) will stay in that frame of the government, there are many communist parties in europe, that do not run on the soviet style communism they run on the lets make everyone equal platform...

so i wouldnt be surprised if the communist party does get to be in power... after all one major enemy to the US would be communism, and with a commmunist party in power (not saying total, probably the biggest party in the Iraqi parliament) would control the agenda and allow the iraqis to really show how much they love the US...

[Alejandro1]

At 5/2/03 03:24 PM, Slizor wrote: That's democracy, not socialism.

7) Price supports on food

Those are price controls my friend; in a true Democratic-capitalist system, the citizens of the country would be greatly more independant in controlling the interstate economy with little government intervention; the government should not need to set price controls on products.

All the things you have mentioned are not Socialist, they are just not totally lassiez-faire.

Well great, so we're pushing towards a socialism, that just makes me feel wonderful.

[karasz]

At 5/2/03 03:39 PM, alejandro1 wrote:

At 5/2/03 03:24 PM, Slizor wrote: All the things you have mentioned are not Socialist, they are just not totally lassiez-faire.

Well great, so we're pushing towards a socialism, that just makes me feel wonderful.

now now, no form of government is all bad, remember that...

socialism= there are 40+ million un-insured people in the US, under socialism that would be fixed...

communism= in its purest sense would have no poor people, and probably less crime since nobody would do it out of necessity...

democracy/republic= everyone has a voice in the govt...

[nitroxide]

noones says anything on wether or not it is right to come and impose a goverment on these people theyll take anything better than saddam is that how america is swooping in so fast to establish an order to blind these people with the same lies that have been looming over our heads.We fought there war and now they are protesting for us to leave thats all they wanted liberation not a new nation of oppression let them decide whats right for them i thought all we cared about was the damn fucking weapons of mass destruction...that have yet to be found

[Anarchy-Balsac]

why exactly would we invite a party that while not particularly unfriendly to the US(only respect comes from saddam's overthrow letting them come about), wouldn't be particularly friendly and would create a media that would be more than happy to release anti-US propaganda?

[Shangui]

A problem with making the switch to communism in a democracy, is that they cannot switch back and forth between communism and capitalism every four years, so if the Iraqi people choose to switch to communism, they better be sure about it.