The first casualty of war is...

[RoboTripper]

truth?

Did the Bush administration repeatedly lie to start the war in Iraq? For instance, there were two cases of blatant forgeries used as evidence: the documents on Iraq's secret nuclear program that was dismissed as forgeries by the UN; and the documents linking Iraq to terrorism allegedly based on "intelligence material" that was plagiarised from a 12-year old academic paper.

In addition, we were assured that intelligence info made it clear that Iraq had extensive chem + bio programs... but of course evidence could not be provided since it would compromise the sources. Now we are coming up empty, hoping for a few 55-gallon drums (hardly extensive) to validate our mission.

Then when the new tape of OBL came out, the U.S. claimed it would show a "partnership" between Al-Queda and Saddam and released an edited version, which convienently left out the part where OBL calls the Ba'ath party along with all socialists infidels.

In addition, the U.S. lied about Iraq's capability to deliver WoMD and made false claims about the purpose of the "aluminum tubes" (remember those?)

These pieces of evidence were used to drive home the need for immediate action. The U.S. couldn't even wait one more month because the danger was so great. But hey, Iraq wasn't complying with the UN resolution calling for disarmament... or were they complying completely?

So is this an instance of shameful manipulation and lying? Or is it excusable since these actions served the greater good of removing Saddam from power?

[Jonas]

I thought they actually used the paper, not plagarized it?

[RoboTripper]

At 4/30/03 01:00 PM, el_foka wrote: I thought they actually used the paper, not plagarized it?

Nah, just took chunks out and used them. Not acknowledging the source isn't really the big deal though, it's more so the making-shit-up that's wrong.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,9115,892069,00.html

[Jonas]

Haha. You're right on that account, however, the first thing that vanishes is not the truth, I'd say choice, because society seems to hold views during certain times that things are unacceptable. Sept 11th hit, and I didn't hear anyone say Fuck America outside of NG, and even then that was stressed.

[bumcheekcity]

The first casualty in war is always truth. And I dont know if 'liberating' the IOraqui people from Saddam was the greater good. Try telling that to the thousands of kids lying in hospital with burn marks all over their body and no parents because a bomb flew into their house while they were asleep.

[TheEvilOne]

At 4/30/03 02:45 PM, bumcheekcity wrote: The first casualty in war is always truth. And I dont know if 'liberating' the IOraqui people from Saddam was the greater good. Try telling that to the thousands of kids lying in hospital with burn marks all over their body and no parents because a bomb flew into their house while they were asleep.

Yes, it was for the greater good. You put "liberating" in quote marks, implying that it is not what we have done, as if they were better off under Saddam. For every one civilian that we accidentaly killed, there are who knows how many that Saddam intentionally killed. Tell the families of those who Saddam killed that what we did was not for the greater good. Also tell it to those who are exercising their new-found freedom by speaking freely or going on religious pilgrimages that were previously banned. Even tell it to those who are protesting continued American presence. They might not want us to stick around, but you can bet that they're glad that Saddam is gone.

And why are people already so willing to conclude that the administration lied? I wouldn't put it above any politician to lie, but nothing has been proven one way or the other. Have patience.

[Slizor]

Yes, it was for the greater good. You put "liberating" in quote marks, implying that it is not what we have done, as if they were better off under Saddam. For every one civilian that we accidentaly killed, there are who knows how many that Saddam intentionally killed. Tell the families of those who Saddam killed that what we did was not for the greater good. Also tell it to those who are exercising their new-found freedom by speaking freely or going on religious pilgrimages that were previously banned. Even tell it to those who are protesting continued American presence. They might not want us to stick around, but you can bet that they're glad that Saddam is gone.

I like it when people start with the whole "The ends justify the means" crap. Mainly because it can only be justified from a few philosophical viewpoints.....along with the phrase the "greater good". See, the problem with words such as "liberated" is they have polarised connotations so the use of words can show bias easily. The Iraqi people may have been "liberated", but I doubt they have been freed and doubt that they will be freed. Were they better off under Saddam....only time will tell.