Queen Elizabeth Vs Queen Victoria

[hongkongexpress]

Who do you British NGers think had the most significant impact. (forgive me for my spellin, and take my observations with a grain of salt. This isn't a college paper).

I'm a Canadian, borh in the 20th century, so I can't really speak for the Victorian World. But it was pretty impressive.

Because some Victorian influences streches into the Second Elizabethan era.(Example Hong Kong was colonized during the Victorian age, and lasted deep into the Elizabethan age) England had an empire. And Queen Victoria holds the record for longest serving monarch. (without modern medical equipment, which Elizabeth II has access to, plus she was overweight (Victoria).

England experienced significant commercial and scientific success: such as discovered that drinking poo water (Thames River), caused a plague.

So they build sewers which are still used today.

Victorian social service societies were created like the Victorian Order of Nurses, the Commonwealth Society. Created grand projects like the Suez Cannal to bypast the Cape of Good Hope. Queen Victoria's age also created the Middle Class, through access to education, and industrialization. But this also had a negative impact on society, as many people overwhelmed the social services (usually given through the church) and created poverty (similar to Charlie's situation in Charlie and the Cholocate factory). Which eventually inspired the foundation of socialism, and or saftey equpiment when the factory machines went haywire! But this would cause the English Poor Laws of Elizabethan I era to be challenged. Many movements never existed before, such as Slaverly abolition, which would resemble the many social rights organizations of today. came from this time.

REligion would be challenged by Darwin's writing, and a more educated middle class as they learn more, and decadence such as drug use like Dope (Opium), would be perfectly normal. as are women's rights, such as the right to vote.

Now then Queen Elizabeth's era:

England is a technological advanced country. The Tubes built in Victoria's era run. The country has won two wars of survival and acts of mass killing terrorism. But with many technologies that are based on Victorian teachings, England enjoys longer life span. from 40-80. Queen Elizabeth although aging rapidly, is still a very healthy and strong bird in her own right. BUt will probally use these technologies to continue her reign in the way of John Paul II.

English scientists discover DNA, which is being mapped and many mental illnesses can be challenged. (due to the Victorian discoveries of basic Nural science), we now know that hallcinations arn't caused by Magical demons and ghosts. (well maybe they are), but seeing them is caused by mental illnesses, and not being cursed by God. Religion is further challenged. Church attendance drops.

In Victorian's age, Missionaries were everywhere trying to save souls due to Christian rivivals. Women enjoy more freedoms like owning corporations, voting, and the right not to be smacked around with a stick no longer than an arm. Infact there are women cops. Automobiles finally are mass produced, as they came out in Victoria's age. Queen Elizabeth fixes them in the army in WWII.

The British Empire becomes the British Commonwealth, Elizabeth loses Hong Kong, to a more stronger China, who threatens British PM Margrate Thatcher "We'll use what ever necessary to take back what is ours". Thatcher slips down some stairs clealry shaken. The Iron Woman, a mighty symbol of what women can become if they're strong, is smelted by Chinese Dragon Fire, from an aging old near sighted Primier.

The British Commonwealth decays into states that commit barbarous acts of violence, like India, Uganda.

Buckingham palace burns down. Christian values that the Queen is suppost to defend as head of the Church of England is laughed at as her son, future head of the Church of England devorces and remarries. This even goes unoticed around the world. Especially in Canada. who are mostly at the time more intrested in the 2004 NHL playoffs, or the Calgarians anyways.

50 years ago, Calgary and Edmonton were so Ra ra ra for the monarchy. 2005, I had the chance to shake Prince Philip II's hand for my Duke of Edinburgh Award at Gold level...... which average Canadian employers don't have a clue what that is. Unless they're from the 80s, or even the 70's.

But Elizabeth II's era did see many things: Internet, longer life span, improved transporation, creation of United Nations, end of Aparthtied, the creation of Globalnization, ground breaking research, really cool train stations, (like wow!). modern standard of living in England. Many instututions still in existance. super strong eliet troops with night vision, British Rock, Mr Bean. John Paul II's attempts to change the world. Religious cults to try and fill the void that Christianity has left behind. more equality in wealth, if idiots like me will go to school and stop writing bullshit NG essaies like this one, bringing Narnia and Gondor alive in Digital form, and a zombie invasion where the hero has to beat up his friend John the bartender in tune to the "Having a good time" song. That was funny. Also many Victorian movies are finally brought to life. Like. Oliver Twist, Great Expectations ect, so we can see visuals of that Stingey cheap ass Ebinzer Scrooge, or the evil Fagan.

England will also host the 2012 olymics in time for the Queen's Diamond jubilee, and most likely Queen Elizabeth would even live untill 2017. Canada's 150th birthday, and the 100th anaversary of the House of Windsor. (which was created by Queen Victoria's Son). So that's pretty neat.

Anyways enough of my insane ramblings. I think both ages gets a win. But who can go wrong with Hermione and Ginny's sexy sexy ass and the discovery of DNA. and Red Dwarf, and funny British comedies that just poke fun with total ranchy humor like violence (young ones). Mr Bean man, Mr Bean trying to crash into the blue car with three wheels all the time that's classic.

[D2Kvirus]

Queen Victoria - she didn't burn left-handed people at the stake as a matter of principle.

[zzzzd]

At 2/17/07 10:57 AM, D2Kvirus wrote: Queen Victoria - she didn't burn left-handed people at the stake as a matter of principle.

I think he means Elizebeth the 2nd.

Seeing as Elizebeth hasn't really done much except wave from her balcony every so often. I would say Victoria.

Then again I'm not a big fan of the monachy

[Me-Patch]

Queen Victoria sat and smiled while over 1 million starving Irish men women and children died from the great potato famine. Elizabeth squashed the second Desmond Rebellion with fire sword and famine, and zealously killed off a large portion of Munster.

Fuck England.

[zzzzd]

At 2/17/07 03:15 PM, Me-Patch wrote: Queen Victoria sat and smiled while over 1 million starving Irish men women and children died from the great potato famine. Elizabeth squashed the second Desmond Rebellion with fire sword and famine, and zealously killed off a large portion of Munster.

Fuck England.

Ang about. Your not even fuckin irish your just a fuckin plastic paddy americunt.

I don't mind Irish fuckin hating england for what England did to Ireland but not ignorant septic bastards like yourself.

Anyway look how many Irishmen came to England in the potato famine. fuckin thousands. I'm even desended from one of them. Most of liverpool is desended from them.

So fuck you...

Prick...

[Me-Patch]

At 2/17/07 07:03 PM, zzzzd wrote:

At 2/17/07 03:15 PM, Me-Patch wrote: Queen Victoria sat and smiled while over 1 million starving Irish men women and children died from the great potato famine. Elizabeth squashed the second Desmond Rebellion with fire sword and famine, and zealously killed off a large portion of Munster.

Fuck England.

Ang about. Your not even fuckin irish your just a fuckin plastic paddy americunt.

My family came here during the Great Potato Famine, so I'm an American of Irish descent, Id'e love to hear some of those insults face to face, tough guy.

I don't mind Irish fuckin hating england for what England did to Ireland but not ignorant septic bastards like yourself.

They committed the same attrocities to my ancestors as they did to the people whose ancestors stayed in Ireland.

Anyway look how many Irishmen came to England in the potato famine. fuckin thousands. I'm even desended from one of them. Most of liverpool is desended from them.

Because they were starving and they needed anything, even indentured servitude at the hands of their tormentors.

So fuck you...

Prick...

Tough Guy huh?

[zzzzd]

At 2/17/07 08:07 PM, Me-Patch wrote:

At 2/17/07 07:03 PM, zzzzd wrote:

At 2/17/07 03:15 PM, Me-Patch wrote: Queen Victoria sat and smiled while over 1 million starving Irish men women and children died from the great potato famine. Elizabeth squashed the second Desmond Rebellion with fire sword and famine, and zealously killed off a large portion of Munster.

Fuck England.

Ang about. Your not even fuckin irish your just a fuckin plastic paddy americunt.

My family came here during the Great Potato Famine, so I'm an American of Irish descent, Id'e love to hear some of those insults face to face, tough guy.

So did my family, And i'd fuckin twat you if i could.

I don't mind Irish fuckin hating england for what England did to Ireland but not ignorant septic bastards like yourself.

They committed the same attrocities to my ancestors as they did to the people whose ancestors stayed in Ireland.

Unlucky your american now get over it. 60years ago my country was bombed to shit by the germans, But I don't bitch about germans whenever I can.

1000 civillians in the UK have also died by the IRA in the last 40years but I don't hate Ireland.

[2wiceBorn]

At 2/18/07 10:59 AM, MickTheChampion wrote: Queen Victoria commited genocide, she's the equivalent of Hitler.

She may have being responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands. But knowhere near the same level as Hitler.

[Me-Patch]

At 2/18/07 08:32 AM, zzzzd wrote:

At 2/17/07 08:07 PM, Me-Patch wrote:

So did my family, And i'd fuckin twat you if i could.

It's fun to start fights from across the ocean aint it. I'm not going to act like a tough guy when I don't have any way of backing it up.

I don't mind Irish fuckin hating england for what England did to Ireland but not ignorant septic bastards like yourself.

They committed the same attrocities to my ancestors as they did to the people whose ancestors stayed in Ireland.

Unlucky your american now get over it. 60years ago my country was bombed to shit by the germans, But I don't bitch about germans whenever I can.

I don't bitch about the English whenever I can, you don't even know me buddy.

1000 civillians in the UK have also died by the IRA in the last 40years but I don't hate Ireland.

I don't care what you hate, I'm going to tell you about something everybody hates, Imperialism. Your shity country killed more civilians than any country in world history.

[qygibo]

Queen Elizabeth had the more significant impact IMO. She was the one who actually ruled the country, for one. Under her leadership, England emerged from being a debt ridden nation with barely an armed force to becoming the most powerful nation in the world. She was able to choose excellent advisers from all sorts of backgrounds, and they knew damn well what they were doing. She was also able to encourage her troops to go without pay, which was key when the Spanish Armada was about to invade, and indeed, while she was stingy to a fault she made it so that England recovered its treasury that her father managed to spend away.

Queen Victoria actually did very little to run her country, especially in the beginning. A lot of the work that was done by the royals, that was done by Prince Albert. He encouraged scientific development, engineering development, and was the real impetus behind the cultural movement that we knew as the Victorian era. Queen Victoria brought family drama and managed to drive one of her attendants to such stress that she probably died a lot sooner than she should have of the tumor that she had. And when Prince Albert died, Queen Victoria hid in a shell, and barely came out to see her people for almost 40 years. About the only major things that Victoria did do was to fix up the royal finances, because she had learned to be stingy through a poor childhood, and thus she is the reason why the Royal family can today catalogue their possessions in 40+ leather bound BOOKS.

Her prime ministers, particularly Robert Peel, are the ones to blame for the Irish Potato Famine, because of the common attitude that God was punishing the Irish in some way and that they should just let it be and it'll all sort itself out. They sent token supplies of corn, but from what I've read, the Irish didn't know what to do with it.

[qygibo]

Bah, I just realized that I was at fault as well. I should have properly read the opening topic.

I would still say Queen Elizabeth has had the more significant impact. She actually tried to work alongside her people during WWII, although her family refused to allow her to do anything substantial due to her safety). She and her husband have worked on being in touch with the average person, although Prince Philip has done more of that than the Queen by insisting that the children went to a regular school of sorts instead of being home schooled. From what I understand Queen Elizabeth is also somewhat regularly involved in politics, probably a lot more than Victoria was; by reading up on what's new in British politics and at times embarrassing ministers who should know more about the laws than Queen Elizabeth II knows. I think that she's also somewhat mellowed out over the years, particularly with the family dramas that she has had, and has evolved with the times; unlike Victoria who lived in her own little world for the 40 some odd years.

[zzzzd]

At 2/18/07 01:22 PM, MickTheChampion wrote:

At 2/18/07 12:34 PM, SorgE wrote:

At 2/18/07 10:59 AM, MickTheChampion wrote: Queen Victoria commited genocide, she's the equivalent of Hitler.

She may have being responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands. But knowhere near the same level as Hitler.

The forced starvation of around two million people? I'd say that's the same level as Hitler.

I doubt very much it was forced starvation. It was just They didn't do anything about it. They kept exporting food from ireland like before and they didn't give any needed aid to ireland. Which was discusting Dispicable and the people in charge at the time should of been hung.

Howether it wasn't genocide. Only complete anglophobe wankers come to that conclusion.

[Me-Patch]

At 2/18/07 07:12 PM, zzzzd wrote:

The forced starvation of around two million people? I'd say that's the same level as Hitler.

I doubt very much it was forced starvation. It was just They didn't do anything about it. They kept exporting food from ireland like before and they didn't give any needed aid to ireland. Which was discusting Dispicable and the people in charge at the time should of been hung.

Howether it wasn't genocide. Only complete anglophobe wankers come to that conclusion.

Your just splitting hairs, the facts remain the same. They sat and smiled while millions starved and died right in front of them. What are you defending all I can see is you arguing over word choice.

[zzzzd]

At 2/18/07 02:03 PM, Me-Patch wrote:

At 2/18/07 08:32 AM, zzzzd wrote:

At 2/17/07 08:07 PM, Me-Patch wrote:

So did my family, And i'd fuckin twat you if i could.

It's fun to start fights from across the ocean aint it. I'm not going to act like a tough guy when I don't have any way of backing it up.

Alrite mate whatever. You can play the cool guy, tough guy whatever you want.
I'm just saying if you did gob of about England to my face i would nut you, You might then beat the shit out of me or vice versa, we'll never no, but I doubt you would say fuck england to my face anyway.

I don't care what you hate, I'm going to tell you about something everybody hates, Imperialism. Your shity country killed more civilians than any country in world history.

lol, Bollocks. More Irish than anyother country maybe.
Not that i'm denying the fact that many people have died at the hands of the british.

But many Native indians and philipinos have died at the hands of americans. For the sake of more land for america. And that was within the first 100years of its life.

Seriously mate, don't be so ignorant.

[zzzzd]

At 2/18/07 07:36 PM, MickTheChampion wrote:

O well, you can tell that to plenty of fine English Historians who reached that conclusion. But what do they know? I mean obviously you've just looked at something and taken a pro-English opinion on it; that's far more than any old textbook can do!

I don't give a shit if they were English Historians, I don't base things on by what nationality someone is. I can see where you get it from. But if you actually put you incredibly irish sided bias a side. you can see it's not true.

A disease spreads through the potatos but Britain keeps on exporting food from ireland.
It's not genocide it's just being greedy heartless bastards. which is wat the aristocraticic cunts are like.

[zzzzd]

At 2/19/07 01:25 PM, MickTheChampion wrote:

There's a difference, then? Britain was responsible for starvation on mass, it was forced starvation. I don't care if it offends you, I don't care how flowery you want it worded, it's a fucking fact.

It's not a fact or in anyway proven.

All what is based on the idea of genocide is that the export of food from ireland went on as it did before the famine.
Now i'm not saying thats not absolutly terrible and in no way am I trying to defend Queen Victoria, because I agree she was an imperialistic bitch.

But It wasn't genocide. And it wasn't forced Starvation.

And you are incredibly irish biased. or anti-english.

[zzzzd]

At 2/19/07 04:59 PM, MickTheChampion wrote:

At 2/19/07 03:41 PM, zzzzd wrote:
It's not a fact or in anyway proven.

You're denying it now?

All what is based on the idea of genocide is that the export of food from ireland went on as it did before the famine.

Which, under the circumstances, amounted to forced starvation.

Then The Irish who sold the much needed food forced the irish people to starve.
Belive it or not Britain didn't steal the food. It was sold to Britain by the irishmen who grew it.
It wasn't forced starvation.

Now i'm not saying thats not absolutly terrible and in no way am I trying to defend Queen Victoria, because I agree she was an imperialistic bitch.

But It wasn't genocide. And it wasn't forced Starvation.

Then what was it? An unfortunate accident that couldn't have been prevented? There was a Highland Potato Famine aswell that you never hear about, because they got so much aide that barely anyone starved or died. It makes the forced starvation of the Irish People an even bigger crime against Humanity.

I don't think it could of been prevented. It would of been extremely hard for any nation, howether it could of been not as bad as it was.
There were Potato famines all over europe, but no were near as bad as the irish one and no country depended on potatos as much as Ireland.

[2wiceBorn]

At 2/18/07 01:22 PM, MickTheChampion wrote: The forced starvation of around two million people? I'd say that's the same level as Hitler.

If you times two million starved by thrity, then yes.

[zzzzd]

At 2/20/07 10:18 AM, 2wiceBorn wrote:

At 2/18/07 01:22 PM, MickTheChampion wrote: The forced starvation of around two million people? I'd say that's the same level as Hitler.

If you times two million starved by thrity, then yes.

If you times two million by thirty and add the fact that they were gassed or worked to death on purpose.

[Britkid]

Without looking at the moral concerns, I'd say that Victoria was more influential without a doubt.

Elizabeth may have dealt well with being the monarch so young but in this day and age and when she was crowned she was just a figurehead. It was Labour's goverment of Richard Atlee that implemented all the new changes, like the NHS. She didn't have any influence over the invention of the internet or any of those other things.

As for Victoria, she did have power at that time. It was an important directive of the PM in power to gain her approval and she steered Britain into a position of power overseas, becoming Empress of India and Burma and those other ones, even though she let the working class live in their own filth to get there.

[zzzzd]

At 2/20/07 02:26 PM, MickTheChampion wrote:

At 2/20/07 10:55 AM, zzzzd wrote:
If you times two million by thirty and add the fact that they were gassed or worked to death on purpose.

I think any World Leader, once they're responsible for the deaths of over a million innocent lives, are in the Monster League.

There not responsible though, For it. The Blight and irleand relying on the potato to much. are whats responsible.. But Britain should of been responsible for stopping it.

At 2/19/07 09:44 PM, zzzzd wrote:

Then The Irish who sold the much needed food forced the irish people to starve.

Belive it or not Britain didn't steal the food. It was sold to Britain by the irishmen who grew it.
It wasn't forced starvation.

It was taken, not freely given, to feed soldiers. Stop trying to cover up the shady history of the British Empire and just accent it. You're changing your bloody story every time, I'm not going to keep correcting you until you actually go and look some shite up.

No I'm not. I have looked alot up on it, allthough I knew alot about it before. Your not correcting me. your just changing what i say to make it all look like a conspiracy.
The Land owning Irish ( or british ushally) still exported there food to britain because they didn't want to go poor like the rest of ireland.
Now I agree Britain should of closed the ports but they didn't. It wasnt an act of genocide.

In my eyes Genocide is purposly killing of a type of people. The potato famine wasn't purposely killing of the Irish, It was not caring what happened to the irish.
And in many ways thats just as bad, I am not sticking up for the british empire in anyway.
I think it was discusting. But it wasn't genocide, it was nothing compared to Hitler, You cant even compare it with the native indian genocide.

Even just on wikipedia for fuck's sake! Read for five minutes, that's all I ask.

I don't think it could of been prevented. It would of been extremely hard for any nation, howether it could of been not as bad as it was.
There were Potato famines all over europe, but no were near as bad as the irish one and no country depended on potatos as much as Ireland.

Are you aware of the amount of food exported from Ireland during the time? If they had simply closed the ports in order to keep home grown food for domestic consumption only there wouldn't have been starvation at such a large a extent.

There was alot of food and closign ports would of ment britain would lose alot of money.
They didn't carry on exporting so as to kill of the irish, they were just being greedy uncaring bastards.

Britain could of done alot more to help the irish. and they fucking should of since they have gone out of there way to conquer ireland, but they didn't.
I'm not sticking up for them. I'm not proud of the british empire and i'm not even fond of the monachy. But The Irish Potato famine was not a genocide. It was simply not caring.

[scorchin-hot]

Mr.Bean has been around since the 1600's and I thought you would have metioned the english language being pretty much installed under queen elizabeth.

[ImmoralLibertarian]

At 2/17/07 06:30 AM, hongkongexpress wrote: Who do you British NGers think had the most significant impact.

The royals, monarch or not have had no significant impact for hundreds of years.

Victoria may of headed a few fashions in her day. But they day ‘fashion’ becomes significant is the day I slit my wrists.

And no one in the UK gives two fucks about what our current Queen does or does not do.

[ImmoralLibertarian]

I’ve just remembered something significant done by Queen Victoria. By speaking out against the suffrage movement she possibly held back votes for women for some time.

I guess she wins.

[Misanthropesmaster]

In this modern world imperfect as it is, was made primarily by the Anglo Saxons. Almost all the benefits of modern life, including law, education, transport, medicine, entertainment and communications were derived in part or whole from the exertions of the English.