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At 2/17/07 02:09 PM, Grammer wrote: I know, I'm just saying the South had good reason to be suspicious of Lincoln. Not like they knew beforehand, but their suspicions were correct.

That may be why some fought in the civil war, but primarily they did because 1. Lincoln was a Republican and 2. he was a Federalist. MOST did not trust him not on the issue of slavery, but the fact that he was going to take the strength away from the states and give power to the Federal government, something about which the founding fathers warned. There's a reason the Constitution gave so much power to the individual states. They didn't want their government to end up with a strong central government because that's what they had to escape from in England. Therefore, Lincoln blatantly disobeyed the Constitution and fought a war in order to keep the Union. He manipulated the government and the people, and though his heart was in the right place, he was still wrong.

yeah i hate the rebel flag and southern pride

At 2/17/07 05:33 PM, Joshiwa wrote: yeah i hate the rebel flag and southern pride

That because you're gay.

There's nothing wrong with being proud of your heritage and all the Confederate flag represents is history and state's autonomy before the furth expansion of the federal government.

At 2/17/07 05:41 PM, JakeHero wrote:

At 2/17/07 05:33 PM, Joshiwa wrote: yeah i hate the rebel flag and southern pride

That because you're gay.

There's nothing wrong with being proud of your heritage and all the Confederate flag represents is history and state's autonomy before the furth expansion of the federal government.

I don't see how someone can be proud in something that they haven't had anything to do with. Sure, if you had a large impact on southern culture there would be a reason to have pride, but not when all you have done is be born into it. I have nothing wrong with celebrating heritage or culture, I just do like feeling proud of something that was of others' creations.

And calling someone gay isn't exactly the right way to carry on mature debate.

At 2/17/07 05:51 PM, Sigma-Lambda wrote: I don't see how someone can be proud in something that they haven't had anything to do with. Sure, if you had a large impact on southern culture there would be a reason to have pride, but not when all you have done is be born into it. I have nothing wrong with celebrating heritage or culture, I just do like feeling proud of something that was of others' creations.

Heritage is something your born with pal. People are supposed to take pride in what their ancestors have done for them, it's a sign of respect and gratitude.

Your saying black kids shouldn't take pride in the peaceful and diplomatic way that their forefathers fought for civil rights because they weren't there . Or that the Jewish Americans of today should just forget the halacaust because they didn't activley participate in it?

At 2/17/07 02:09 PM, GrapeberryClock wrote:

I don't even stand for the American pledge anymore, But I will stand for the Canadian National Anthem.

Weakling.

At 2/17/07 05:31 PM, Grammer wrote:

but I will say that the South did succeed in the first place because they feared to lose their right of slavery, among other reasons.

THANK YOU!

At 2/17/07 05:57 PM, Me-Patch wrote: Heritage is something your born with pal. People are supposed to take pride in what their ancestors have done for them, it's a sign of respect and gratitude.

Your saying black kids shouldn't take pride in the peaceful and diplomatic way that their forefathers fought for civil rights because they weren't there .

The definition of proud from Websters;
1 : feeling or showing pride: as a : having or displaying excessive self-esteem b : much pleased : EXULTANT c : having proper self-respect

They should respect and revere civil rights leaders, but what someone else has done should not garner more respect for yourself.

Or that the Jewish Americans of today should just forget the halacaust because they didn't activley participate in it?

First off, I don't think people remember the Holocaust out of pride. Second; I never said forget the past, and I never said stop respecting your heritage. I said don't take pride in it if you haven't taken part in it. Read my words more clearly.

I don't think the stars and bars stand for slavery, any more than I think the swastika stands for Nazism. It's just another example of a thing becoming offensive because of the way people use and portray it.

At 2/17/07 06:08 PM, Sigma-Lambda wrote: First off, I don't think people remember the Holocaust out of pride. Second; I never said forget the past, and I never said stop respecting your heritage. I said don't take pride in it if you haven't taken part in it. Read my words more clearly.

So what your saying is that there is no such thing as taking pride in the accomploshments of others. Like when your dad says I'm proud of you.

People should take pride in what others have done for them, because even if it wasn't you who was actualy sprayed by the fire hose, or bit by the dog, it was a part of you. It was the hopes and dreams for the future of your culture that were being tested, and they prevailed and a person has every right to take pride in the fact that their ancestors refused to give up and die for them.

At 2/17/07 01:36 AM, Tal-con wrote: I wanna get one of those, car sticker things, that are gray and blend into the plating of the car. One that has a picture of Calvin pissing on the Confederate flag. You know what I'm talking about.

There ya go buddy! Is this what you are talking about? xD

Which reminds me, why the fuck do they fly the Naval Jack? I hardly ever see the actual national flag of the Confederacy anywhere.

The confederate flag has different meanings for different things. To me it represents true rebellion. Just calling it racist is quite ignorant.

At 2/16/07 10:38 PM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote: I have Confederate Flag in my yard and I live in Minnesota who the fuck cares it doesnt represent slavery it represented a nation who wanted there own Ideals and beliefs staying in there society.

and those beliefs were that they had a state right to slavery. It does represent slavery.

But: The Rebel Flag is a symbol of the Confederacy, not directly of slavary/racism, although I guess it could be considered that indirectly.

The Confederate Flag is a symbol of the Confederacy, not the Rebel Flag. There are 2 different flags.

The stars and bars represents slavery and we are doing our kids a disservice by waiving this flag and calling it "southern pride". I live in the south and this flag makes me ashamed not proud of the south. It represents slavery. It does.

Supporting a state's Constitutional right to secede (at the time) means you support slavery? Well, by God, call me an overseer.

At 2/17/07 06:50 PM, Tal-con wrote:

to make me seem like I cared what you had to say.

Oh it's Tal-con... No wonder. Nothing can penetrate that hard shell'd mind of your's. No amount of evidence or proof can get thru that barrier.

patriotic people piss me off. i mean REALLY patriotic people. the kind of people who blindly believe what the government is telling them without even questioning them. without even thinking of wondering if the leaders are wrong. i hate not being patriotic. dumb people got it made. all they got to do is sit back, relax, and let all the rich white men do the thinking for them. i need to get the FUCK out of here. i want to live in a place where i dont know and dont want to know what the government is up to. a place like japan...where the food is good, and the women are beautiful. i can eat cat as long as i am ignorant to the workings of the world around me and i am surrounded by those wonderful japanese dames. and if i think of it anymore ill jump into the ocean and swim there. i cant stand this place. so i can understand why the south wanted to get the f*ck out. but i think slavery is wrong. so i think that if you want to stand for something different than a rich white mans world...then f*cking leave. im gonna, you should too.

^^sorry i didnt remember that i dont edit "fuck" anymore at the bottom of the post.

I hate you all. Except Turtleface.

At 2/15/07 09:13 PM, PornMazter wrote: it does not represent slavery it is just the flag of the south

the south rides!

Maybe the american flag should stand for slavery. One of the big reasons for the american war of independence was because the british empire was bringing a ban on slavery throughout the world. And slave owners payed a large amount towards the patriots.

At 2/19/07 09:58 AM, Tal-con wrote:

"Slaves were treated better than northern white factory workers. This is irrefutable evidence that totally means the Civil War wasn't about slavery."

Right.

And no matter what links I gave you, you can't fess up. Haha, that's funny.

Hah, if I'd have known Grammer was this moron, it would've been easy to just shrug off.

It can mean different things to diffrent people. Our normal U.S stars and stripes, for example, mean different levels of patriotism and nationalism to each individual.

The Stars and Bars "literally" represents States' rights against Federal domination. Hence, the "rebel" flag. To say it represents slavery is only looking at one side of the coin.

The northerners weren't fighting to end slavery. Half of the northern soldiers packed their bags and went home when the Emancipation Proclimation was signed and passed. You clearly know nothing about Civil War history, just like half of the Americans in this country.

Southerners who hang the confederate flag aren't racists and do not want slavery to return in America. They are the true patriots, the ones who truly stand for what America is all about, before Lincoln ruined its very values. After the Civil War passed, our entire Constitution was destroyed.

The confederate flag is not an emblem of slavery, and never was for that matter. The Civil War wasn't started BECAUSE of slavery, it was because Lincoln wanted to raise the tax of abominations, which only effected the south, (It's unconstitutional to unevenly tax the different states) to build roads in the north! The South then decided to resign from the Union, (A power not adressed in the Constitution, thereby being reserved to the states to decide!) and Lincoln decided that he wasn't going to allow that to happen, so he declared war on his own country.

In "preserving the union" he did nothing but destroy our Constitution and sacrifice hundreds of thousands of American lives for no reasons but his own. The Confederate flag is the true emblem of American patriotism, not slavery.

At 2/15/07 08:46 PM, dySWN wrote: Only people uneducated in history presume that it was all about slavery. Most people in the south couldn't even afford slaves, and at that period in history new inventions were making the practice obsolete.

And only racist Southerns believe the old South myth that it was never about slavery at all.

At 2/20/07 04:22 PM, AvocadoClock wrote:

At 2/15/07 08:46 PM, dySWN wrote: Only people uneducated in history presume that it was all about slavery. Most people in the south couldn't even afford slaves, and at that period in history new inventions were making the practice obsolete.

And only racist Southerns believe the old South myth that it was never about slavery at all.

I'd also like to add a few things here...
The popularity of the Confederate flag rose tremendously during the 1960's during the Civil Rights movements. Seriously, is that a coincidence or what? The Confederate flag was added to the South Carolina capital in 1962. I'd have been ashamed to be defending it as a historical artifact just to learn it was added in the 60's. Flying the flag was a way for Southerners to show resistance to change and equality. Anti-black, yeah?

At 2/20/07 04:22 PM, AvocadoClock wrote:

At 2/15/07 08:46 PM, dySWN wrote: Only people uneducated in history presume that it was all about slavery. Most people in the south couldn't even afford slaves, and at that period in history new inventions were making the practice obsolete.

And only racist Southerns believe the old South myth that it was never about slavery at all.

And only dumbass yanks who don't know a flying fuck about civil war history say stupid shit like that. I'll say it again, because of your covenient overlook of my previous post, most of the northern soldiers packed their bags and went home when the emancipation proclimation was signed and passed. The only reason Lincoln wanted to free slaves was to punish the south, he himself being a radical racist, by the way. Everyone in America at that point in time hated African Americans to the utmost extent.

The civil war had nothing to do with slavery until well after the first shots were fired. In fact, the southern state's resignation had nothing to do with slavery either. The only reason the southern states resigned was because of Lincoln's heavy increase of the tax of abominations, which was a tax on foreign imports. This tax only affected the south, they being the only major European importers, and Lincoln knew that. Not only that but Lincoln did not even intend to use these taxes to improve the south in any way, no, instead he used them to build roads, canals, and railways in the north.

The resignation of the southern states was entirely constitutional due to the 9th and 10th amendments of the United States Constitution, and Lincoln had no business in the sacrificing of the lives of hundreds of thousands of Americans in a war that only left the country in tatters. What wasn't constitutional, my dear yankee friend, was Lincoln declaring war on his own country. The constitution states boldly that the only branch of government with the power to declare war is congress. Was it congress that declared war on the resigned states? No, it was Lincoln, who happened to be the President. Is the President a member of congress or the legislative branch for that matter? No, quite fankly, he's not.

What have we learned here today my dear yankee friend?

1.) You're an idiot.

2.) You're an idiot who knows absolutely nothing about the Civil War, or what it was about.

3.) The Civil War had almost nothing to do with slavery, let alone the south's resignition.

What's going to happen?

You're going to continue being an idiot, believing the lies of our modern day government and your silly little high school education on the matter of the Civil War. As will many like you.

There is a shit load of reasons why the South fought and had there own flag in the South.

But I think the main reason was to break away from the North. Because political power was mostly with the north. i.e. New roads this benfits the North and West but not the South.

Today the "Rebel Flag" to be stands for dumb ass rednecks.

At 2/20/07 06:21 PM, ThisAliasIsCrappy wrote: Today the "Rebel Flag" to be stands for dumb ass rednecks.

This is totaly true. Not racists, just rednecks. It just so happens that many times the two are the same.

hai cunt mouth how bout u suck on ma salty balls