Iran: Americas next target?

[Microset]

Yup. It's pretty damn sad once you think about it. If you've watched the news at all recently, you'll notice there's stuff about how Iran is supplying Iraq with bombs, most of which are killing Americans. I'm not saying this isn't wrong, but I am going to say that it's only half of the story.

Sean Hannity and all of his spin-Meister cronies are working hard to put Iran on Americas target list. Does anyone notice that America has been supplying the Israelites with weapons for years to kill Muslims? Why don't they talk about THAT for awhile, hmm? Sad that more of Americas population take that for face value and don't think it over again.

You tell me what you think. By the way JMHX if you see this, think twice about slamming 15 year olds you stereo-typer.

[Memorize]

At 2/11/07 10:42 PM, Microset wrote:

Sean Hannity and all of his spin-Meister cronies are working hard to put Iran on Americas target list. Does anyone notice that America has been supplying the Israelites with weapons for years to kill Muslims?

The way I see it. I don't get why we defend Israel so much. If they are indeed God's people, then what difference would it make if we didn't support them? Anyway, there's just 1 major problem with that. Israel doesn't start wars, if you notice, they're being constantly attacked by other nations like Palistine (by sending over rockets ect. which hit literally anything anywhere regardless of civilians).

If you're going to support people from the mid-east, might as well be the remotely sane ones.

[SkunkyFluffy]

At 2/11/07 10:42 PM, Microset wrote: If you've watched the news at all recently, you'll notice there's stuff about how Iran is supplying Iraq with bombs, most of which are killing Americans. I'm not saying this isn't wrong, but I am going to say that it's only half of the story.

What possible mitigating factors could there be here? I'd be willing to believe there's more to the story, but there's nothing that anyone could say that would make it okay for the Iranians to supply the Iraqi insurgency with bombs.

Does anyone notice that America has been supplying the Israelites with weapons for years to kill Muslims?

They're our allies. And it's never been a secret. I don't think it's right for the Israelis to be putting the thumb-screws on the Palestinians, but I don't think our alliance is the same thing as the situation between Iran and Iraqi insurgents.

Sad that more of Americas population take that for face value and don't think it over again.

A lot of Americans have a problem with our relationship with Israel and with the situation there. But, frankly, Israel is a sovereign nation, and although admittedly we've shown our willingness to interfere with another nation's sovereignty it would be overstepping our bounds to try and interfere with Israeli domestic policy. Frankly, we're the only reason Israel doesn't own the entire region - we've stopped them in every open conflict there, keeping them from absolutely skull-fucking anybody who tried to tangle with them.

You tell me what you think. By the way JMHX if you see this, think twice about slamming 15 year olds you stereo-typer.

I would be greatly amused if you would tell me why you think he would give a damn about this statement. Also, you've kind of proved his point here - and made everyone who reads this check your profile to find out how old you are.

[packow]

God Damn it. Stop the fucking Israel bashing when you know nothing about the subject except for what you hear on the news.

[Microset]

Does anyone notice that America has been supplying the Israelites with weapons for years to kill Muslims?

They're our allies. And it's never been a secret. I don't think it's right for the Israelis to be putting the thumb-screws on the Palestinians, but I don't think our alliance is the same thing as the situation between Iran and Iraqi insurgents.

I'm just trying to ask who is the more evil here? I'm sure on the Iraq news at 10 (if there was such a thing) their talking about us supplying Israel with bombs.

You tell me what you think. By the way JMHX if you see this, think twice about slamming 15 year olds you stereo-typer.

I would be greatly amused if you would tell me why you think he would give a damn about this statement. Also, you've kind of proved his point here - and made everyone who reads this check your profile to find out how old you are.

Check JMHX's thread on wisdoms of 15 year olds.

[Microset]

At 2/11/07 11:23 PM, packow wrote: God Damn it. Stop the fucking Israel bashing when you know nothing about the subject except for what you hear on the news.

If you read the whole thing you might think this one over. I'm America bashing. Plus I never said I even watch the news (this statement being false as we know, but for this subject we'll assume true), ever hear of NY Times?

Just trying to clear things up for you.

[SkunkyFluffy]

At 2/11/07 11:27 PM, Microset wrote: Check JMHX's thread on wisdoms of 15 year olds.

If you had actually read it, you might have noticed my fairly frequent posts there. What I was asking is why would he care about some punk telling him to "think twice."

[LardLord]

Israel's Six Day war seems like provocation enough that other countries' existances are threatened by Israel.

Pre Emptive Strikes are an act of war.

[Memorize]

At 2/11/07 11:39 PM, LardLord wrote: Israel's Six Day war seems like provocation enough that other countries' existances are threatened by Israel.

Pre Emptive Strikes are an act of war.

Nevermind the fact that they were going to be attacked first. What? Forget about that little tidbit of information? Of course you did, why wouldn't you?

[Microset]

At 2/11/07 11:36 PM, SkunkyFluffy wrote:

At 2/11/07 11:27 PM, Microset wrote: Check JMHX's thread on wisdoms of 15 year olds.

If you had actually read it, you might have noticed my fairly frequent posts there. What I was asking is why would he care about some punk telling him to "think twice."

My mistake. Him making that list was stereo-typing. I'm just saying not all 15 year olds are pot-smoking, cry-baby, close-minded liberals. I don't smoke pot, I'm sure as hell open to conservative ideas, I'm not crying over anything, and the only reason I may be close-minded is because people like him somehow become the God of things, such as the politics forum, and magically make it law that whatever a 15 year old says is shit.

Feel free to slam any of the above.

[SkunkyFluffy]

At 2/11/07 11:39 PM, LardLord wrote: Israel's Six Day war seems like provocation enough that other countries' existances are threatened by Israel.

I don't think Israel ever intended to conquer Egypt, but I'd be willing to debate that.

Pre Emptive Strikes are an act of war.

Well, yeah. They're basically the act of war.

The Israel issue isn't the most important thing to be considered here. It's apples to oranges.

The situation with Iran has become increasingly tense, due in part to the whole nuclear question and a lot of inflammatory statements on the part of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. And while you can complain until you are blue in the face about us supplying the Israelis with instruments of death, it is not Americans that the Israelis are using those weapons against. Iranian-supplied bombs and other materiel are being used to kill Americans, and if you will recall, our relationship with Iran hasn't exactly been sweetness and light in the past. The Tehran Hostage Crisis was not that long ago, after all.

[cellardoor6]

At 2/11/07 10:58 PM, Memorize wrote:

At 2/11/07 10:42 PM, Microset wrote:

Sean Hannity and all of his spin-Meister cronies are working hard to put Iran on Americas target list. Does anyone notice that America has been supplying the Israelites with weapons for years to kill Muslims?

The way I see it. I don't get why we defend Israel so much. If they are indeed God's people, then what difference would it make if we didn't support them?

"The Lord blesseth him who blesseth Israel"

Other than that. The reason we support Israel isn't for religious purposes. In case you didn't know, Israel is the only functioning Democracy in the middle east.

Israel is the ONLY place in the Middle East where the government doesn't opress religious and ethnic minorities.

If a white Christian goes to Israel, he will be safe. If a white Christian goes to Palestine, he will get his head cut off.

Conversely, if a Muslim Arab comes to Israel, then he becomes a citizen. If you didn't know, 1/6th of Israelis are Muslim...

Look at Palestine, the Arab Christian minority in Palestine is fleeing to Israel!

We support Israel because they are the ONLY respectable, stable, democratic, and human-rights upholding country in that region. 99% of the negative you hear about Israel just stems from the propaganda and lies that spews forth from the Arabs that surround Israel.

Did you know that in Palestine they teach their children in school that Jews drink the blood of Muslims? Did you know that it is held as fact in Palestine (even though its false) that Palestine used to be an empire and that Jews never ruled Israel? That is why misguided, brainwashed Arabs are so quick to point the finger at Israel.

Israel has upheld EVERY SINGLE peace agreement with Palestine EVER. Every single ceasefire that was broken was broken by the Palestinians. Yet, Israel has the power to completely destroy the Palestinians if they chose, but Israel doesn't because they have mercy and want peace.

But EVERY SINGLE TIME the Palestinians get the chance, they do whatever they can to kill innocent Israelis, Palestinians even use their own people as human shields and use their children as suicide bombers. If Palestine had 1/100th the military power that ISrael has, all the jews would be dead already.
'
I'm so sick of moronic, misguided, uninformed morons that watch a few Palestinian propaganda "documentaries" then think they have a fucking clue what they are talking about.

Go to Israel, you will be treated well and you will live. Go to Palestine and they will cut your head off...

Yes... Israel is really the bad guy. Give me a fucking break.

[packow]

Yes I've heard of the New York times.

And it's easy to write off Israel from what you hear on the News.

But people jump to too many conclusions about the subject and say really stupid things.

I'm going to lay down some basic facts.

1. Israel is the only democracy in the middle east, and the only nation that guarantees freedom of speech.
2. Israeli technology and science has made more contributions to the fields in 58 years than its neighbors have made in thousands. And this is not just in military technology.
3. Israel's scientists and engineers don't need the USA's weapons. Israeli-built weapons technology is far superior than anything the United States has. The only thing Israel gets from the USA is raw materials and a handful of small arms. Israel does not need these. If the USA decided to not give Israel any more guns or materials, Israel could just get raw materials from anywhere else and expand its weapons manufacturing.
4. Israel is not dependant on America for anything. They're remarkably self-sufficient. If you took the USA's (way too fucking big) nuclear arsenal out of the picture, Israel could tear America a new asshole. In terms of military technology, Israel is unsurpassed in the entire world. Especially it's fighter Jets-- The American military would love to get its hands on some Israeli fighter jets.

And most importantly: Before you accuse Israel of "committing genocide" or something against Arabs, maybe you actually visit the country and see the situation there for yourself. You'll find it's very different from how the media would like you to think.

[Microset]

At 2/11/07 11:40 PM, Memorize wrote:

At 2/11/07 11:39 PM, LardLord wrote: Israel's Six Day war seems like provocation enough that other countries' existances are threatened by Israel.

Pre Emptive Strikes are an act of war.

Nevermind the fact that they were going to be attacked first. What? Forget about that little tidbit of information? Of course you did, why wouldn't you?

Applause, Memorize. The reason he forgot something like that is because it was most convenient for him to make his point, which just happens to be something I would expect to hear from Sean Hannity and cronies. Half of the story.

[cellardoor6]

At 2/11/07 11:39 PM, LardLord wrote: Israel's Six Day war seems like provocation enough that other countries' existances are threatened by Israel.

Pre Emptive Strikes are an act of war.

Before the Six Day war, Israel had been attacked by the combined Arab nations surrounding it THREE TIMES. And Israel kicked their asses each time, and didn't conquer them like they easily could have, Israel only restored its borders, created buffer zones between Israel and other countries, and asked for ceasefire.

The Six Day War wasn't just a preemptive strike. Israel attacked because all the Arabs were YET AGAIN surrounding Israel and preparing to invade. What did Israel do? They strategically bombed the shit out of the enemy's airforces, then defeated the enemies ground forces that were near the Israeli border THATS IT.

Once again, Israel completely spanked the Arabs, yet showed tremendous mercy by requesting another ceasefire after Israel basically destroyed the combined Arab armies and could have marched to their capitals.

[packow]

An entire fleet of tanks and artillery massing on the Egypt-Israeli border is more than reason enough to expect a strike.

[SkunkyFluffy]

While I agree with the sentiments supporting Israel (and feel heartened that someone actually read their history books), I'm interested to see what the discussion of a possible conflict with Iran might sound like without the erroneous Israel element.

[cellardoor6]

At 2/11/07 11:47 PM, packow wrote:
3. Israel's scientists and engineers don't need the USA's weapons. Israeli-built weapons technology is far superior than anything the United States has. The only thing Israel gets from the USA is raw materials and a handful of small arms. Israel does not need these. If the USA decided to not give Israel any more guns or materials, Israel could just get raw materials from anywhere else and expand its weapons manufacturing.

... Everything you said is entirely wrong, every single thing you said is completely and entirely bullshit. You have no clue what you're talking about.

4. Israel is not dependant on America for anything.

Um Israel is ENTIRELY dependent on America for EVERYTHING. Israel receives billions in both economic and military aide every year from the US. Almost EVERY SINGLE thing in Israel's military arsenal is American.

The real reason Israel is preeminent in the middle east is 1 reason: Airpower. And their airpower only exists because of the F-15 and F-16 fighter jets, and their Apache helicopters all of which are American designed, and American manufactured. The US gives Israel military aide so that Israel can afford to upkeep the aircraft that the US gave to them FOR FREE.

They're remarkably self-sufficient. If you took the USA's (way too fucking big) nuclear arsenal out of the picture, Israel could tear America a new asshole.

That is the most hilarious thing I've ever heard. Israel's military is only powerful because the US provides them technology. Israel even admits this, you're just being a fucking moron.

In terms of military technology, Israel is unsurpassed in the entire world. Especially it's fighter Jets-- The American military would love to get its hands on some Israeli fighter jets.

You have no clue what you're talking about. Israel USES AMERICAN AIRPLANES!!! Israel uses America missiles, American ammo desings, American radar, American electronics, American ships, American EVERYTHING.

Israel only produces a few of its own small arms and a few signature vehicles. Their high-technology equipment and systems are ALL American, every single one.

hell, Israel's military doctrine itself is a clone of US army doctrine. They are basically a smaller version of the US army, but they lack some of the higher-technology systems that the US keeps for itself, such as AEGIS and Stealth aircraft technology (which Israel lacks completely).

And most importantly: Before you accuse Israel of "committing genocide" or something against Arabs, maybe you actually visit the country and see the situation there for yourself. You'll find it's very different from how the media would like you to think.

I've been to Israel, I know that people lie about Israel to make it look bad.

But you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Israel is entirely dependent on the US.

Do some research before you parade your ignorance.

[Memorize]

At 2/11/07 11:46 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

"The Lord blesseth him who blesseth Israel"

Yes, but at the same time, it also says that God would give them Israel and protect them from ANYONE IF... and there's that if. They had a requirement. So, if they broke that requirement, then they are no longer 'protected' by God by any means.

[packow]

W/e... Cellardoor, you're obviously the expert. I'm not going to pretend to know shit, I just saw a movie on it once.

[cellardoor6]

At 2/12/07 12:16 AM, packow wrote: W/e... Cellardoor, you're obviously the expert. I'm not going to pretend to know shit, I just saw a movie on it once.

What the hell kind of movie did you see? It was obviously BS, because Israel has been the largest recipient of both economic and military aide from the US since the 70s.

You came to quite an interesting opinionated conclusion with your whole "Israel would rip America a new asshole" goof.

Do a little research next time.

Almost ALL of Israel's military equipment and technology is provided by the US.

[packow]

yeah i guess it was complete bullshit, but I was pretty sure of 2 things

1. Didn't Israel build the merkava tanks?
2. Didn't Israel buy american F-16s and then gut them, installing their own superior technology?

[cellardoor6]

At 2/12/07 12:35 AM, packow wrote: yeah i guess it was complete bullshit, but I was pretty sure of 2 things

1. Didn't Israel build the merkava tanks?

Yes, but the Merava tank isn't as good as people think it is. It just looks really cool. It's not as mobile or high tech as current American upgrade son the M1 Abrams. The Merkava uses a diesel engine, the M1 Abrams has a gas turbine that provide much higher speeds, quiter sound, and quicker acceleration.

Also, a few Merkavas were destroyed in Lebanon by RPGs, so it showed its not as protective of the crew as M1 Abrams tanks.

2. Didn't Israel buy american F-16s and then gut them, installing their own superior technology?

Israel bought the cheaper, older F-16s that the US hasn't even used in active duty for a while. Then in order to save money, Israel installed some of their own technology to make it better than the older ones instead of upgrading using the new American upgrades.

The new upgrades that the US has for the F-16 are better than the Israeli upgrades. But Israel didn't buy these new F-16s because they were too expensive, so they bought old ones and added their own shit to it.

But even then, the US doesn't really use the F16 very much anymore, its role as a fighter and ground attack aircraft has been usurped by the F18 Superhornet which is the most advanced strike fighter in the air right now.

And Israel uses F-15 for air superiority, the US has about 15 times as many as F-15s as Israel has, but the US now has the F-22 Raptor to fill that niche which is the most powerful air superirity fighter in the world (stealth I must add).

And for pure ground attack inside of enemy defenses, Israel uses both F-15s and F-16s, and some older F-4 phantoms. The US fills that role with stealth F-117s, B-1s, and B-2 stealth bombers.

[Imperator]

Sean Hannity and all of his spin-Meister cronies are working hard to put Iran on Americas target list.

They've been on that list since 1979......

we've just ignored all their "death to America" talk until now.

Feel free to slam any of the above.

Roger.

My mistake. Him making that list was stereo-typing. I'm just saying not all 15 year olds are pot-smoking, cry-baby, close-minded liberals. I don't smoke pot, I'm sure as hell open to conservative ideas, I'm not crying over anything, and the only reason I may be close-minded is because people like him somehow become the God of things, such as the politics forum, and magically make it law that whatever a 15 year old says is shit.

Well....the fact that his major is just "slightly" connected to politics might have something to do with that thread......

I'm interested to see what the discussion of a possible conflict with Iran might sound like without the erroneous Israel element.

We're not going to do anything major until we're out of Iraq, and that's the unfortunate, cold, hard, honest truth. Not only does Bush not have the political backing to make any move against Iran, but since Iran can cause some SERIOUS harm to us in Iraq, it wouldn't be advantageous at this time. Thus, I think we can rule out (at least for the next 2 years) any US direct attack against Iran at this time.....

If anything WERE to happen, I think Iran would act first, and they'd have to act FAST. a large scale invasion of Iraq would I guess technically be possible, but I think a large air campaign against the US in Iraq is more likely.

Sheer numbers would be Iran's only saving grace in any sort of massive air to air campaign, as any losses on our part would take much more time to be replaced. Should they succeed in eliminating our air coverage over Iraq, they'd proceed to bomb the crap out of our military forces there, and then retire. Attacking Israel would be suicide, and there's no way in hell they'd be able to get any sort of shots off on US soil...

A large scale ground invasion of Iraq would be out of the question. As seen in the first Gulf War, our air force can easily blow the living shit out of ANY sized army, tanks, AFVs, trucks, and whatnot (see, I read my history books too....). And we've always got a nice naval force to fire a few bajillion cruise missiles if needed as well.

Of course, all this depends entirely on Israel's non-involvement.......
Not to mention the Saudi's, Egypt, India,......

But even then, the US doesn't really use the F16 very much anymore, its role as a fighter and ground attack aircraft has been usurped by the F18 Superhornet which is the most advanced strike fighter in the air right now.

I'm waitin on the F-35 JSF, whoop whoop! I know a packaging engineer who works for Northrup-Grumman as is supposed to be working on this. He also worked on the F-22 project as well, just don't ask me what a packaging engineer is doing workin on military aircraft.....cause I don't know...... :) (I'm guessing boxing parts or somethin)

[cellardoor6]

At 2/12/07 02:33 AM, Imperator wrote:

If anything WERE to happen, I think Iran would act first, and they'd have to act FAST. a large scale invasion of Iraq would I guess technically be possible, but I think a large air campaign against the US in Iraq is more likely.

I don't think so.

Iran doesn't have any ability to launch an Air war against the US, let alone a large air compaign. Iran's airforce is not only small, but in shambles.

For an example, Canada has a more powerful air force than Iran does...

The LAST thing Iran would do is attack conventionally. This would give the US a pretext to retaliate conventionally, this means Iran would get raped.

No, Iran is going to keep doing what is doing now, which is sneakily assisting the insurgents in Iraq and avoiding direct confrontation with the US military.

If Iran attacked US forces openly with Iranian military forces, that would be the end of Iran's military.

Sheer numbers would be Iran's only saving grace in any sort of massive air to air campaign, as any losses on our part would take much more time to be replaced. Should they succeed in eliminating our air coverage over Iraq, they'd proceed to bomb the crap out of our military forces there, and then retire.

Dude, come on, not another person that doesn't know what they are talking about. The US aircraft in Iraq alone number higher than Iran's airforces all together. And the US also has 2 aircraft supercarriers in the Gulf.

The US forces have force protection, there are constant air patrols, missile defense systems, and anti-missile batteries already in Iraq. Iran might be able to get a few missiles passed these systems, but their aircraft would get raped quickly if they tried to conduct an airwar over Iraq.

Then this would mean destruction of their military because the US would have justification to directly retaliate against Iran instead of fighting with our hands behind our back like we are right now by only capturing and killing Iranians inside of Iraqi territory.

Attacking Israel would be suicide, and there's no way in hell they'd be able to get any sort of shots off on US soil...

Attacking the US would be suicide, attacking any US forces in the region directly by irans military would be suicide. That is why Iran uses proxies like the Shi'a in Iraq and Hezbollah in Lebanon to use terrorist tactics instead of conventional military tactics.

A large scale ground invasion of Iraq would be out of the question. As seen in the first Gulf War, our air force can easily blow the living shit out of ANY sized army, tanks, AFVs, trucks, and whatnot (see, I read my history books too....). And we've always got a nice naval force to fire a few bajillion cruise missiles if needed as well.

Actually, it would be easier for Iran to invade Iraq by land rather than conducting an air war. It would still result in Iran's complete and utter defeat, but it would their best chance if they were dumb enough to directly attack US forces in Iraq.

But even then, the US doesn't really use the F16 very much anymore, its role as a fighter and ground attack aircraft has been usurped by the F18 Superhornet which is the most advanced strike fighter in the air right now.

I'm waitin on the F-35 JSF, whoop whoop!

THe F-35 Joint Strike Fighter isn't nearly as advanced as the F22 Raptor.

The Europeans are lucky the US is even allowing them to participate in the F-35 program because the US payed like 99% of the development costs. But as always, the US pays the bills and lifts Europe up by the bootstraps.

For instance, the UK only a few billion on the F-35 program, the US spent hundreds of billions. Yet when the British order the F-35, they will buy it for the same price the US buys it per unit.

Ridiculous.

I know a packaging engineer who works for Northrup-Grumman as is supposed to be working on this. He also worked on the F-22 project as well

My friend works at Boeing. They are involved in the F-22 manufacturing but they only build part of the fuselage I believe. But the Boeing plant in Everett, WA nearby where I live is also developing an unmanned stealth fighter jet that is supposed to replace manned bombers by 2020

[troubles1]

At 2/11/07 11:44 PM, Microset wrote:

At 2/11/07 11:36 PM, SkunkyFluffy wrote:

At 2/11/07 11:27 PM, Microset wrote:

My mistake. Him making that list was stereo-typing. I'm just saying not all 15 year olds are pot-smoking, cry-baby, close-minded liberals. I don't smoke pot, I'm sure as hell open to conservative ideas, I'm not crying over anything, a

Feel free to slam any of the above.

To bad you know nothing about what is happening in the middle east or why we support Israel , and help them to protect themselves from being bullied by religious fanatic's. or about how Israel is the most stable democratic country in the middle east.

You are the stereotypical 15 year old what happened you wander out of the General forum get lost somehow find Politics and need directions on finding your way back ?

[Imperator]

Dude, come on, not another person that doesn't know what they are talking about. The US aircraft in Iraq alone number higher than Iran's airforces all together. And the US also has 2 aircraft supercarriers in the Gulf.

Cut me some slack! It's not like I have up-to-date military stats on Us air presence over Iraq and a complete readout of Iran's airforce sittin in front of me......

I was working under the assumption that Iran's airforce was large and ineffective, and based on troop numbers on the ground in Iraq, that we only had a small portion of our air superiority deployed to the region.....

Yeesh!

The question called for a conflict with Iran. Meaning one: conventional warfare, and 2, something other than what they're currently doing (it's hard to make a what if scenario of something actually happening).

[goozebump]

God I so wish you were in combat. My dad jsut got from Iraq, soldiers aren't as gung ho as you think. Until you have to kill a man you shouldnt really have an opinion or call for war. Remember its cities your b lwoing up and occupying. Peoples homes. People who don't give a shit, jsut like how only 40% of americans care about politics. What they see though is a solidewr although only doing his job, walking around in his home with a alrge hgun. Entering your house without permission or even a knock. Hey cerllardoor why do you think soldiers are not allowed to stay in americans homes? Anyway if this war with iran goes through at leat we'll have a "WAR President" for the rest of our lives. Hah, looks like Cheney and wolofwitz are going to have the last laugh aftgerall.

[WarV]

it's fighter Jets-- The American military would love to get its hands on some Israeli fighter jets.

IS THAT A JOKE! The jets that Israeli has are old US airforce jets. Speaking of US jets I am pretty sure that no other nation besides other NATO nations have the F22Raptor. Ever heard of that jet? Well read up about it, it is the deadliest thing to ever fly in the sky and the US Airforce has about a little over 100 of them.

[JoS]

I love American hypocracy. The US has funded, trained and even particpated in the overthrowing of numerous democratically elected governments and civil warfare across the globe, but threats Iran for doing exactly the same thing. why is it that these things are only legitmate tools of US foriegn policy and no other state?