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euthanasia for mental illness

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stafffighter
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euthanasia for mental illness Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 08:39 PM Reply

That's what switzerland is trying to do. Is this better or worse than locking up an incurable mental patient for their entire life? Frankly I think that the widely varied philosophies of mental treatment will make it nearly impossible to give an accurate enough assesment to make this practicle. Please no jokes about just letting them cut the bugs out of their skin


I have nothing against people who can use pot and lead a productive life. It's these sanctimonius hippies that make me wish I was a riot cop in the 60's

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SolInvictus
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Response to euthanasia for mental illness Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 08:45 PM Reply

before i read the link i thought they were going for a "no more retarded people" type stand. it seems reasonable, if the person is of sound mind, is suffering and cannot be cured he or she should have the right.


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stafffighter
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Response to euthanasia for mental illness Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 08:46 PM Reply

At 2/2/07 08:45 PM, SolInvictus wrote: before i read the link i thought they were going for a "no more retarded people" type stand. it seems reasonable, if the person is of sound mind, is suffering and cannot be cured he or she should have the right.

Dude this whole topic is about them not being of sound mind


I have nothing against people who can use pot and lead a productive life. It's these sanctimonius hippies that make me wish I was a riot cop in the 60's

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SolInvictus
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Response to euthanasia for mental illness Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 08:50 PM Reply

At 2/2/07 08:46 PM, stafffighter wrote: Dude this whole topic is about them not being of sound mind

there are mental illnesses that do allow for rational thought.


VESTRUM BARDUSIS MIHI EXTASUM
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Begoner
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Response to euthanasia for mental illness Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 08:55 PM Reply

By reading your post, I assumed that Switzerland was actively seeking to kill those who were mentally ill, suffering, and incapable of expressing their wishes rationally. I would have agreed with such a policy. However, the decision to die must be made by the individual in question, so I see absolutely nothing that could even be construed as morally wrong with it. If somebody does not even have control over his own life, what does he have?

random8982
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Response to euthanasia for mental illness Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 09:39 PM Reply

At 2/2/07 08:45 PM, SolInvictus wrote: before i read the link i thought they were going for a "no more retarded people" type stand. it seems reasonable, if the person is of sound mind, is suffering and cannot be cured he or she should have the right.

They do over there. It's a 6 month process though.

MortifiedPenguins
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Response to euthanasia for mental illness Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 09:52 PM Reply

I would disagree.

Mainly because the government of Switzerland should have the power of life or death over an individual that hasn't gone through due process.

It should be left to the family to decide.


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MortifiedPenguins
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Response to euthanasia for mental illness Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 09:54 PM Reply

Typo.

They shouldn't have the power to decide life or death ...


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Ravariel
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Response to euthanasia for mental illness Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 11:24 PM Reply

At 2/2/07 09:52 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote: I would disagree.

Mainly because the government of Switzerland should have the power of life or death over an individual that hasn't gone through due process.

It should be left to the family to decide.

Because some of you *cough* obviously didn't actually read the article, I'll highlight some important parts for you:

"It must be recognized that an incurable, permanent, serious mental disorder can cause similar suffering as a physical (disorder), making life appear unbearable to the patient in the long term," the ruling said.

"If the death wish is based on an autonomous decision which takes all circumstances into account, then a mentally ill person can be prescribed sodium-pentobarbital and thereby assisted in suicide," it added.

The judges made clear in their ruling that certain conditions would have to be met before a mentally ill person's request for suicide assistance could be considered justified.

"A distinction has to be made between a death wish which is an expression of a curable, psychiatric disorder and which requires treatment, and (a death wish) which is based on a person of sound judgment's own well-considered and permanent decision, which must be respected," they said.

The case was brought by a 53-year old man with serious bipolar affective disorder who asked the tribunal to allow him to acquire a lethal dose of pentobarbital without a doctor's prescription.

The tribunal ruled against his request, confirming the need for a thorough medical assessment of the patient's condition.

Not exactly the state-sponsored murder yall seem to think it is.


Tis better to sit in silence and be presumed a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.

CreatureII
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Response to euthanasia for mental illness Feb. 3rd, 2007 @ 12:04 AM Reply

I dont know, this all seems to remind me off Catch22, but kinda different, If you can choose to kill yourself while being 'sane' , you are not aloud to do so, but if your incapable of the decision, you will die?

fli
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Response to euthanasia for mental illness Feb. 3rd, 2007 @ 02:14 AM Reply

At 2/2/07 08:45 PM, SolInvictus wrote: before i read the link i thought they were going for a "no more retarded people" type stand. it seems reasonable, if the person is of sound mind, is suffering and cannot be cured he or she should have the right.

But the validity of their need will always be questionable.
If they were sane and they wanted to commit suicide, then people would have less to worry.

However,
people with an incurable mental diseases shouldn't have the benefit of the doubt because... well... We can't be sure ever if they're in the right mind.

Such decisions, I believe, ought to be put on living wills, and a very strong criteria ought to be created.

*Which type of mental disabilities we ought to euthanize--
*How long of a "window of opportunity" should these people have before committing suicide should they withdraw from their decision...
*What about family?

Etc, etc, etc--
I believe in euthanasia, although it shouldn't be so simple as a getting a McDonald's job. The gravity of the situation deserves large amounts of decidedness, forethought, and most importantly... time.

Tancrisism
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Response to euthanasia for mental illness Feb. 3rd, 2007 @ 02:59 AM Reply

At 2/2/07 08:55 PM, Begoner wrote: However, the decision to die must be made by the individual in question, so I see absolutely nothing that could even be construed as morally wrong with it. If somebody does not even have control over his own life, what does he have?

In this case that would be possible, but do you feel the same way for people in a state of vegetalia? In which case they would be unable to decide to die, yet they'd be in a sense unable to live.


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MortifiedPenguins
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Response to euthanasia for mental illness Feb. 4th, 2007 @ 09:55 AM Reply

At 2/2/07 11:24 PM, Ravariel wrote:
At 2/2/07 09:52 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:
Not exactly the state-sponsored murder yall seem to think it is.

Just a question here.

But if a mentally challenged/peterbed/damaged person has the cognitive ability to ask for death, who are we to give it to him?

I mean, it's not like if these people are vegetables that can't do anything(that decesion should be a family based decision) but where still talking here about someone that has a cognitive ability to think.

Either way, the government should still stay out of it. It's really none of thier concern.


Between the idea And the reality
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Korriken
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Response to euthanasia for mental illness Feb. 4th, 2007 @ 10:57 AM Reply

in america the best way to do assisted suicide would be to dress up in white robes with a pointy hat and marsh through the ghetto, and beat down a few people standing on the corners using a baseball bat.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

Begoner
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Response to euthanasia for mental illness Feb. 4th, 2007 @ 08:37 PM Reply

At 2/3/07 02:59 AM, Tancrisism wrote: In this case that would be possible, but do you feel the same way for people in a state of vegetalia? In which case they would be unable to decide to die, yet they'd be in a sense unable to live.

In that case, it would be up to those who have the individual's best interests at heart to make the decision. If someone does not possess the mental capacity to make an intelligent decision on the matter of life or death, for any reason, it falls into the hands of others to make that choice for them.

stafffighter
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Response to euthanasia for mental illness Feb. 4th, 2007 @ 09:20 PM Reply

At 2/4/07 08:37 PM, Begoner wrote:

In that case, it would be up to those who have the individual's best interests at heart to make the decision. If someone does not possess the mental capacity to make an intelligent decision on the matter of life or death, for any reason, it falls into the hands of others to make that choice for them.

But what happens if said patient has no family to make the choice? Would this go to some sort of medical review board?


I have nothing against people who can use pot and lead a productive life. It's these sanctimonius hippies that make me wish I was a riot cop in the 60's

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MortifiedPenguins
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Response to euthanasia for mental illness Feb. 5th, 2007 @ 04:20 PM Reply

At 2/4/07 09:20 PM, stafffighter wrote:
At 2/4/07 08:37 PM, Begoner wrote:
But what happens if said patient has no family to make the choice? Would this go to some sort of medical review board?

You mean if they happened to pick up John Doe Bum off the street who was hit by a car.

That is a tough connumdrum.

I'm sure there's some sort of family but if not, then let them live.


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Athlas
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Response to euthanasia for mental illness Feb. 5th, 2007 @ 04:24 PM Reply

I think it's great, for lack of a better word. No one should be forced to suffer in agony for the rest of their living days, whether it's due to physical or mental pain. The fact that Switzerland is trying to venture where other nation's simply don't dare to go (probably because they're too afraid of the reactions it might cause), proves they still are the humanitarians of the western world.

What concerns me though, is the possibility of abusing this system. For instance, there's a gravely mentally ill patient locked up in a mental hospital. Every moment of his life is agony. The attending doctor breaks protocol and, after discussing the matter with his patient, assists with the patient's suicide without going through the entire procedure first, claiming that it was the most compassionate thing to do in this patient's case. Of course, this action would not go without repurcussions, but he might get away with it.

Then again, he could have been lying, actually having murdered his patient.

Or maybe I'm getting paranoid, or I'm not entirely comprehending the situation.

stafffighter
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Response to euthanasia for mental illness Feb. 5th, 2007 @ 05:55 PM Reply

At 2/5/07 04:20 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

You mean if they happened to pick up John Doe Bum off the street who was hit by a car.

That is a tough connumdrum.

E.Rs admit homeless all the time and the homeless have been known to have a high instance of mental illness.


I'm sure there's some sort of family but if not, then let them live.

Some sort of family is a sketchy term. You could end up putting the choice in the hands of some second cousin who never met them and that wouldn't be a good situation for anyone.
And if no one can be found the person could still have all the hardship and other critiera someone else would be approved for.


I have nothing against people who can use pot and lead a productive life. It's these sanctimonius hippies that make me wish I was a riot cop in the 60's

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Begoner
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Response to euthanasia for mental illness Feb. 5th, 2007 @ 05:59 PM Reply

At 2/4/07 09:20 PM, stafffighter wrote: But what happens if said patient has no family to make the choice? Would this go to some sort of medical review board?

Preferably, it would not go to the family, as they could have a financial stake in the individual's death. However, they could opt to keep the person alive should they so desire, provided that he isn't in pain. A medical review board, or a similar entity, would be the ideal candidate for making a decision, as they would be knowledgeable on the subject and completely objective.

random8982
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Response to euthanasia for mental illness Feb. 5th, 2007 @ 06:28 PM Reply

At 2/4/07 09:20 PM, stafffighter wrote:
But what happens if said patient has no family to make the choice? Would this go to some sort of medical review board?

Then they go to the next person with power of attorney. It's very reasonable to assume that anyone who has absolutely no family has a friend or otherwise with power of attorney to make that decision for them.

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Response to euthanasia for mental illness Feb. 5th, 2007 @ 06:32 PM Reply

At 2/5/07 06:28 PM, random8982 wrote:

Then they go to the next person with power of attorney. It's very reasonable to assume that anyone who has absolutely no family has a friend or otherwise with power of attorney to make that decision for them.

So someone who lives under a bridge would have legally binding documentation giving power of attorney to someone who lives under another bridge?


I have nothing against people who can use pot and lead a productive life. It's these sanctimonius hippies that make me wish I was a riot cop in the 60's

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Response to euthanasia for mental illness Feb. 5th, 2007 @ 06:38 PM Reply

At 2/5/07 06:32 PM, stafffighter wrote:
So someone who lives under a bridge would have legally binding documentation giving power of attorney to someone who lives under another bridge?

If they have the proper documents then yes. lol.

Even if the person to be euthanized to had a fully functioning and loving family, the case would still be presented before a medical review board, a barrage of psychiatrists, a number of doctors, and loads of tests before anyone can even approve the process.

If infact, that someone living under a bridge is a candidate for the euthanization, and they don't have ANYONE ELSE with power of attorney for them, chances are they will be submitted to a hospital (if found), and given any and all necessary medications to make them comfortable with a reasonably decent quality of life. Since the patient isn't of sound mind, they can't make the decision themselves (they might be able to prove they want it through some insane psychiatric test...pardon the pun) making them ineligible.

MortifiedPenguins
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Response to euthanasia for mental illness Feb. 5th, 2007 @ 06:38 PM Reply

At 2/5/07 06:32 PM, stafffighter wrote:
At 2/5/07 06:28 PM, random8982 wrote:
So someone who lives under a bridge would have legally binding documentation giving power of attorney to someone who lives under another bridge?

Yes.

I mean, for homeless, the bridge is a nice area.

There just hobo's. More then likely, there paying for thier mistakes.


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Response to euthanasia for mental illness Feb. 5th, 2007 @ 08:02 PM Reply

I think that if the person even has a small chance of coming out of a coma/surviving and living life consciously and awarely, Let 'em live, because even if they want to die, they may be suffering chronic depression. Give em some pills. If they are conscious and aware, and they are terminal and they want to die, AND they're not suffering depression, then let em die. BUT only if THEY THEMSELVES ask for it. And only if they're in pain.

WHAT NOW KEVORKIAN!?

random8982
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Response to euthanasia for mental illness Feb. 5th, 2007 @ 08:28 PM Reply

At 2/5/07 08:02 PM, All-Your-Flash wrote: I think that if the person even has a small chance of coming out of a coma/surviving and living life consciously and awarely, Let 'em live, because even if they want to die, they may be suffering chronic depression. Give em some pills. If they are conscious and aware, and they are terminal and they want to die, AND they're not suffering depression, then let em die. BUT only if THEY THEMSELVES ask for it. And only if they're in pain.

That's why if any person of sound mind, or in this case insanity, they're subjected to a battery of tests, evaluations, and documents that need to be signed before they're actually euthanized. Under current rules for euthanization for terminal illnesses, the applicant is actually visited weekly or monthly for 6 months to verify that it is infact the wish of the person.