Newgrounds.com — Everything, By Everyone.

At 2/2/07 10:44 PM, Imperator wrote: If that was the case, then you'd have to explain why nearly 90% of the world is religious, and only 16% is not.

Hooray for 106% of the population being surveyed!

At 2/2/07 10:31 PM, Imperator wrote:

At 2/2/07 10:17 AM, Togukawa wrote:

And the Bible is not meant to be taken literally, you know that as well as I do, with completely refutes your argument. Just because the Bible says to stone women doesn't mean you should do it. HOWEVER, just because it says stone women, doesn't mean you can't get the meaning out of that, ie, Adultury is bad.

Umm, I think you missed the sarcasm...

just sayin' is all...

At 2/2/07 10:31 PM, Imperator wrote: Ever hear of the Golden Rule? And the Bible is not meant to be taken literally, you know that as well as I do, with completely refutes your argument. Just because the Bible says to stone women doesn't mean you should do it. HOWEVER, just because it says stone women, doesn't mean you can't get the meaning out of that, ie, Adultury is bad.

If the Bible isn't meant to be taken literally, then why should any part of it be taken literally, such as the 10 Commandments? Or the story of Jesus in its entirety? It's total crap to just pick and choose which parts you "believe" and which you ignore, but virtually all "believers" do so.

You know nothing about the intentions of the authors of the Bible, not whether it should be taken literally, nor if it is at all true. In effect, the hypocrisy of believers just means that they are creating their own sets of ideas and morals, just like an athiest or agnostic, but they are pulling specific "justification" from a religion. There's a reason nonreligious people are the third largest belief group in the world (you provided the evidence).

At 2/2/07 11:30 PM, Draconias wrote: If the Bible isn't meant to be taken literally, then why should any part of it be taken literally, such as the 10 Commandments? Or the story of Jesus in its entirety? It's total crap to just pick and choose which parts you "believe" and which you ignore, but virtually all "believers" do so.

does the inexistence of Jesus really affect His message?

But if what God commands people to do in the Bible is not an indication of what's moral, what is then? Mozes' commandments were given to the ancient nation of Israel, does that mean that they don't say what's moral and what isn't? When Jesus says "let he who is without sin and so on" to the crowd, doesn't that mean that according to Jesus stoning isn't moral after all?

Those people did have a moral obligation to obey His commandments at that time. However, God did not direct those commandments at today's Christians, so Christians are not obliged to obey them. So clearly not "everybody" is supposed to be stoning adulterous women.

And still, my point remains, 66% of the world is not christian, and they have a sense of morality as well. Albeit a different one. That clearly illustrates that religion and the Bible are not a source of divine morals. Morality depends on society and culture (religion being a part of the latter), not on a divine being coming down to us and having written down what's moral and what isn't.

As far as I am concerned, there is only one correct system of morality or none at all.

At 2/3/07 05:39 AM, Altarus wrote: Those people did have a moral obligation to obey His commandments at that time. However, God did not direct those commandments at today's Christians, so Christians are not obliged to obey them. So clearly not "everybody" is supposed to be stoning adulterous women.

You missed the sarcasm too? Darnit. Anyway, I am incline to agree with Imperator on this, it's not because the command wasn't directed at us that we can't get value from it. Mozes said not to murder the fellow man, but I certainly think that's a pretty good idea. And I think most christians will adhere to that command too. What are you defending exactly, that the commands of the Bible don't teach today's christians anything?

We aren't oblidged to do anything, because it's just a book. But the parts we do obey, like not murdering, that's because our own moral compass tells us that that is a good command, as opposed to the command to stone. So the Bible is not the source of our morals.

And still, my point remains, 66% of the world is not christian, and they have a sense of morality as well. Albeit a different one. That clearly illustrates that religion and the Bible are not a source of divine morals. Morality depends on society and culture (religion being a part of the latter), not on a divine being coming down to us and having written down what's moral and what isn't.

As far as I am concerned, there is only one correct system of morality or none at all.

Well you're wrong. Is hurting / killing a cow moral or not? Which culture holds the single correct morality, Hindus or us? Morality is relative to culture, there's no such thing as a single correct system of morality.

This is why belief is failing so miserably these days. "I believe in ____ but I also think that all other beliefs are right too!"

If you're going to believe something, believe it, and don't cut people who believe something else any slack. Otherwise you'll always question yourself. And don't get pissed off when other people question your beliefs.

Togukawa said that there is no correct or superior system of morals.

If you believe like him you'll always question yourself and your own beliefs and you'll demonstrate a serious lack of faith. So don't.

the bible is just a book of people who had no logical thinking and were just supersisious.

the bible is obsolete. the age of pure logic is near. no religioun, only science.

At 2/3/07 06:57 PM, Dre-Man wrote: This is why belief is failing so miserably these days. "I believe in ____ but I also think that all other beliefs are right too!"

If you're going to believe something, believe it, and don't cut people who believe something else any slack. Otherwise you'll always question yourself. And don't get pissed off when other people question your beliefs.

Togukawa said that there is no correct or superior system of morals.

If you believe like him you'll always question yourself and your own beliefs and you'll demonstrate a serious lack of faith. So don't.

HAHAAHAHA. It was to be expected that you would advocate blind narrowmindedness.
It's by questioning the established beliefs that humanity has gotten where it is now. By questioning old scientific theories we've found new ones, by questioning the usefulness of remaining in a dark cave we've left the prehistoric ages.

It's because of people like you that rather clinged to the established beliefs than questioning them that we stayed in the dark ages so long. It's because of your kind of mentality that fundamentalist terrorists are blowing themselves up in Iraq.

At 2/3/07 06:57 PM, Dre-Man wrote: Togukawa said that there is no correct or superior system of morals.

If you believe like him you'll always question yourself and your own beliefs and you'll demonstrate a serious lack of faith. So don't.

what the hells wrong with questioning yourself? afraid you can't justify your beliefs when someone presents with a different point of view?

At 2/3/07 08:07 PM, Togukawa wrote:

By questioning old scientific theories we've found new ones, by questioning the usefulness of remaining in a dark cave we've left the prehistoric ages.

i hope you know hes going to say something about how science is weak because it requires reevaluation or changes in its beliefs.

At 2/3/07 08:13 PM, SolInvictus wrote:

At 2/3/07 08:07 PM, Togukawa wrote:

By questioning old scientific theories we've found new ones, by questioning the usefulness of remaining in a dark cave we've left the prehistoric ages.

i hope you know hes going to say something about how science is weak because it requires reevaluation or changes in its beliefs.

In the best case :) Dre-Man never ceases to amaze, after claiming that Pi is finite, that the earth is 6000 years old according to radiometric dating, and that questioning beliefs is foolish, I'm curious as to what he will come up with next.

Dre, our very own forum jester :)

At 2/2/07 08:31 PM, Dre-Man wrote:

At 2/2/07 08:20 PM, AdamRice wrote: Some people blindly follow the bible as the answer to all of life's questions. I typically do not agree with this view.

Because you've never read even the slightest bit of the bible, and don't know how much wisdom and knowledge come of it. I typically do not agree with stupidity and ignorance.

I personally could never sit through reading the bible, I'm incapable of taking anything written in there seriously. To me it's just a collection of outdated stories that are exaggerated, untrue, or improperly translated.

To me, you're just another atheist who is too dur dur to comprehend the complicated texts of the bible, which is why you can't comprehend the wisdom and knowledge that come of it. If you can't sit your dumb ass down for enough time to recieve a basic education of a very important and influental book, then why are you even trying to debate the stories and scriptures from the book? Dee dee dee!

So to get back to the original question, I think stories in the bible are more open for debate.

What's to debate? You'll never disprove the bible, so just stop trying.

You're kidding, right? what should be said is, You'll never prove the Bible! We have disproved manymanymany things with science and fact, yet you still believe your book of fairy tales b/c u believe it was written by God. THe only thing that indicates the bible is gods word is the bible. If i wrote a book, and in that book said that everything in this book was true, would it be? NO! Would you believe it was true? NO! Just b/c millions of people believe a lie doesn't make it true.

Prove the Bible to be correct? I'm afraid I can't do that until you bow your knee and confess that Jesus is the saviour when you stand before his throne. I'm sure you'll regret having this conversation with me when you're boiling in hell.

Ah, another "The Bible is bullshit and was probably written by some conspirator or looney!" argument.

Let me give you a few facts on the bible.

1.) It's a 1,546 page book, written by many authors. It's highly unlikely that a few thousand years ago some lunatic pulled the bible out of his ass, but if you want to believe that, go right ahead.
2.) I never said that the bible was written by God, I said that it was written by God through men.
3.) Shut the fuck up until you have proven at least one of your "scientific" theories to explain how the earth was created.

At 2/3/07 09:03 PM, Dre-Man wrote: 3.) Shut the fuck up until you have proven at least one of your "scientific" theories to explain how the earth was created.

We've told you again and again... you just keep sticking your fingers in your ears, saying "LALALALALALAAA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!", then insulting us when we try to learn you something.

Wake up, grow up, and use that piece of meat above your shoulders once in a while. You might be surprised what you find out.

Oh yes Ravariel, teach me your infinite wisdom!

Phh, get lost.

My God!

Relligion threads are mushrooming all around us!

At 2/3/07 09:57 PM, Dre-Man wrote: Oh yes Ravariel, teach me your infinite wisdom!

Phh, get lost.

Can't teach those unwilling to learn. Willful ignorance is one of the few things I actually find insulting. You're a true gem of humanity, Dre... congratulations.

The bible has no truth. It's all about (acoording to my protestant cousins) a white guy who tells you to worship him night and day or severely suffer. The bible is a good argument starter though. My cousins and I once argued for a couple hours if harry potter was satanic. I read them a chapter heavy on the words 'soul ripping'. It was alot of fun.

At 2/3/07 11:16 PM, mrpiex wrote: The bible has no truth. It's all about (acoording to my protestant cousins) a white guy who tells you to worship him night and day or severely suffer.

Right, by that statement I have come to the following conclusions.

1.) You've never read the bible, and are merely speculating.

2.) You're stupid for posting ANYTHING about the bible until you have a basic knowledge of it.

The bible is a good argument starter though. My cousins and I once argued for a couple hours if harry potter was satanic. I read them a chapter heavy on the words 'soul ripping'. It was alot of fun.

Oh yes, Harry Potter is a very heated debate topic when it comes to the Bible. God you're an idiot.

At 2/4/07 12:42 AM, plasmasnake1 wrote: you know dre man for once ill agree with you

but on the topic of the bible i think that it is just stories made up by man. which was there to form the basis for our society

Oh yes, the Bible was just some 1,546 page collection of fairy tales collected by loonies out of their asses. Great explanation.

A bit of a hyperbole, but that's the idea, yes. That seems to be what the facts point to.

At 2/4/07 12:49 AM, theDeity wrote: A bit of a hyperbole, but that's the idea, yes. That seems to be what the facts point to.

Aha. Aha. Funny.

At 2/4/07 12:59 AM, plasmasnake1 wrote: ok im gonna go get swallowed by a wale and live oh wait there goes a talking snake right now

Oh please let judgement day be tommrow. God I can't wait to see you confess.

At 2/4/07 01:10 AM, plasmasnake1 wrote:

At 2/4/07 01:06 AM, Dre-Man wrote:
Oh please let judgement day be tommrow. God I can't wait to see you confess.

like i told you before i believe in god i just dont believe in the bible.

Great, another agnostic. Let me enlighten you on why the bible exhibits being swallowed by a giant whale and a talking snake. It's a little thing called SYMBOLISM. Read revelations and you'll understand that the bible is full of SYMBOLISM.

And about confessing, the bible says that every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that JESUS the Christ and Emmanuel is the saviour. Because you don't believe in the bible, and thus don't believe in him. You will still confess to something you currently don't believe.

At 2/4/07 01:21 AM, plasmasnake1 wrote: first i know that the bible uses symbolism but i thought that you are one of the people that believes to the printed word that the bible is a history book.

Job
Ezekiel
Isaiah
The Early, Pauline, and General Epistles

All of these and many more books of the bible are recorded history of events and events to come.

secondly the way i understand the Christian religion is that if you believe in god and christ and accept them as your savior you will go to heaven

Yes, but you just said that you only believe in God, and not the bible. And no, it takes MUCH, MUCH more than simply believing in Christ to be saved.

So Noah's Ark is just symbolic and not to be taken literally? Genesis is just symbolism, so the world might not be created by the christian god after all?

And what does being "saved" entail for you? I'd certainly go mad, having to "live" forever after death. Without senses and a brain it wouldn't be much of a life, but still.

At 2/4/07 04:56 AM, Togukawa wrote: So Noah's Ark is just symbolic and not to be taken literally? Genesis is just symbolism, so the world might not be created by the christian god after all?

And what does being "saved" entail for you? I'd certainly go mad, having to "live" forever after death. Without senses and a brain it wouldn't be much of a life, but still.

Noah's Ark is a very probable story. But i don't think it is true in every way, but it holds a truth.
There are many similar stories about a giant flood, and a guy who was told by the God's to go make a boat and gather his beloved ones and some animals.
The story isn't true in every detail, but it is a legacy of the old world that can be used to gain a lesson: God will never exterminate the human race.

The 10 plagues of Egypt also occured in other parts of the world. If you read "worlds in collission" by Immanuel Velovsky you'll get a great explanation about how the story of exodus was formed.

The Bible doesn't dictate you how to live, it just tries to give you some hints, tips and advice how to live a good life. You can even hold on to Christ's words without even believing in God.
Remember that hate attracts more hate, and vengeance attracts even more wrath. If you end this cycle of aggression, your chances for peace are much more likely.
You might get hit once, but the aggressor will come to a point where he sees it is futile.

Jesus says that you should be brought to court if you become angry, we can learn from this that it is important to "keep it cool." These messages don't need to be devine, or sponsored by the holy spirit, it is just wisdom.

At 2/4/07 07:46 AM, TwO-FaCeD-PaRaNoID wrote:

At 2/4/07 04:56 AM, Togukawa wrote: So Noah's Ark is just symbolic and not to be taken literally? Genesis is just symbolism, so the world might not be created by the christian god after all?

And what does being "saved" entail for you? I'd certainly go mad, having to "live" forever after death. Without senses and a brain it wouldn't be much of a life, but still.

Noah's Ark is a very probable story. But i don't think it is true in every way, but it holds a truth.

It's not probable at all, you can't just start over and populate the world with animals, starting from 2 entities of each species. Not to mention a lot of other problems with the story.

There are many similar stories about a giant flood, and a guy who was told by the God's to go make a boat and gather his beloved ones and some animals.
The story isn't true in every detail, but it is a legacy of the old world that can be used to gain a lesson: God will never exterminate the human race.

Indeed, it's a legacy of the old world, not something new the christian god gave in his revelation.

The 10 plagues of Egypt also occured in other parts of the world. If you read "worlds in collission" by Immanuel Velovsky you'll get a great explanation about how the story of exodus was formed.

Indeed, it's very easy to see the huge influence of the ancient greek hybris stories in any case.

The Bible doesn't dictate you how to live, it just tries to give you some hints, tips and advice how to live a good life. You can even hold on to Christ's words without even believing in God.
Remember that hate attracts more hate, and vengeance attracts even more wrath. If you end this cycle of aggression, your chances for peace are much more likely.
You might get hit once, but the aggressor will come to a point where he sees it is futile.

Jesus says that you should be brought to court if you become angry, we can learn from this that it is important to "keep it cool." These messages don't need to be devine, or sponsored by the holy spirit, it is just wisdom.

I agree with that whole heartedly. There's a lot of wisdom in the tales of the Bible, like in other great works from antiquity, like the Odyssea, Illias, Satyricon and so on.
They can be an inspiration, but definitely not a reason by themselves, just because "they are in the Bible". We have the advantage that we are 2000 years further in time, with all the experience of antiquity left to us in books, and 2000 years extra.
It's foolish to cling to the old knowledge and reject the new. One of the reasons why humans are the most important species is that we can use written language to pass on previously gained knowledge, in order to build and expand on it, not in order to remain at the current level of knowledge.

Further problems arise when people take the Bible's words to be the holy infallible word of a god, since it's obvious they are not. There are just too many things that are literally copied from previous cultures, or thinly veiled adaptations. It's a collection of tales that holds a lot of symbological value, but it's not an insight into the fabric of existence. And it's folly to claim that it is, and furthermore the only correct one.

At 2/4/07 09:04 AM, Togukawa wrote:

::

It's not probable at all, you can't just start over and populate the world with animals, starting from 2 entities of each species. Not to mention a lot of other problems with the story.

I meant that it was probable that the event happend, not that 200 animals populated the whole world, i didn't say that.

You people are so stupid, taking symbolism literally. It's like reading revelations and actually thinking that a beast with six horns and eyes is actually going to come out of the water.

Noah's Ark is COMPOUNDED with symbolism, as is many other parts of the bible. What exactly does the world entail? Maybe just the fertile crescent?