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Public Education sucks

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darkfiretime1
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Public Education sucks Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 03:51 AM Reply

Yes, I do not doubt it and neither should you. We are a stupid nation. For those of you who think I am wrong, why not watch this link.

20/20 Stupid in America

I am so disgusted with teachers unions, and almost everything about our education system. It would probably be worth it to just eliminate everything and start over.

JakeHero
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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 10:12 AM Reply

This thread has been made before, but I'll say the samething I said last time: education should be privatized and remain as such. The public-schools are subpar and only consume large amounts of taxes and yield very little promise. The education of a child should be up to the parents, not the state.


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DJ-Jerakai
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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 10:21 AM Reply

Yeah. You're right "American" public education sucks.

However, thats not the case in Australia :)

Denta
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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 12:06 PM Reply

At 2/2/07 10:21 AM, DJ-Jerakai wrote: Yeah. You're right "American" public education sucks.

However, thats not the case in Australia :)

The same here in Sweden.

THANK GOD i DON'T live in America, and GOD BLESS Sweden!

DarkSarafan
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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 01:23 PM Reply

Public education sucks because the politicians don't want children to grow smart enough to take them down.

Planktonboy
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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 02:40 PM Reply

At 2/2/07 10:12 AM, BanditByte wrote: education should be privatized

I hate private education a lot, for the benefit of everyone equal starting oppurtunities should be offered. A lot of talent could be wasted while people remain stuck in the slums of education. Education is the one thing that lets people become separate from their parents and progress (or regress) in life. If public education is as bad as you say then perhaps a total reform could be due.

Denta
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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 02:41 PM Reply

At 2/2/07 01:23 PM, DarkSarafan wrote: Public education sucks because the politicians don't want children to grow smart enough to take them down.

Holy hell! Conspiracy! Wouldn't suprise me, actually!

JakeHero
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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 02:43 PM Reply

At 2/2/07 02:40 PM, Planktonboy wrote: I hate private education a lot, for the benefit of everyone equal starting oppurtunities should be offered. A lot of talent could be wasted while people remain stuck in the slums of education. Education is the one thing that lets people become separate from their parents and progress (or regress) in life. If public education is as bad as you say then perhaps a total reform could be due.

Yes, a total reform called complete privization. No, I joke. Honestly, the reason I think our education sucks so much is because of how socialist it leans. In European and asian countries where they have excellent schools they're actually more capitalist leaning than our own. Ironic since our own economy is more capitalist oriented.


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Planktonboy
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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 02:46 PM Reply

At 2/2/07 03:51 AM, darkfiretime1 wrote: Yes, I do not doubt it and neither should you. We are a stupid nation. For those of you who think I am wrong, why not watch this link.

20/20 Stupid in America

That's one of the most patronizing videos I've ever watched and I don't like that word. It seems the media thinks you're stupid as well

Planktonboy
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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 02:59 PM Reply

If you mean socialist in the sense that everyone is treated equal regardless of ability then that truly sucks. Streaming and divisions in schools (e.g. German Gesamtschule or the extinct English Grammar school) helps all students. Stronger students can be pushed harder and weaker students will feel more positive about the progress that they make.
You've also got to be careful not to over-divide the system though. The English Grammar School was an elitist institution admitting only the top 5% of students aged 11+. This is probably going too far.
I personally went to a pretty poor comprhensive school but I really don't mind, I've learnt a lot more from that than education can teach you. I'm a lot less institutionalised than I was and I'm usually glad for it (I should be doding computing coursework right now cough ). Very socialist education can work, you just need a culture that can work with it.

DunjunKrawlr
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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 03:10 PM Reply

Privitization of education would result in a gross desparity between the rich and poor. I feel private schools should be eliminated so that all the people who have their children attending them must then have their children in public education. This would result in a vast overhaul of our education system because the children of the rich would not be getting the same level of education they used to get, and so they would lodge complaints with the government (and let's be honest, the rich have quite a more powerful voice in America than the poor).

random8982
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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 03:20 PM Reply

At 2/2/07 10:12 AM, BanditByte wrote: The public-schools are subpar and only consume large amounts of taxes and yield very little promise.

Are you on crack? While American education systems consume a lot of taxes, no where near HALF of those taxes collected actually go to public education. The Education Budget is ALWAYS the first one cut when they come to appropriations and funding.

The education of a child should be up to the parents, not the state.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHA.

Sorry. That was just so stupid and funny I couldn't help but laugh....leave education up to the parents....yea...that's a good one. Considering there are a shitload of parents out there that we can't even trust to discipline their own kids, but to leave their education up to those same people? Woooo that's funnier than anything Dane Cook has ever said.

UWDarDar17
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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 03:28 PM Reply

This arguement is meaningless.

We live in an information age, where internet access in America is plentiful, often found in these magical places called public libraries. In addition to the internet, libaries have repositiories of knowedge called books. These books are made from paper products and have printing on them called words. One reads these words to understand the information conveyed in the book.

If a student or a parent doesn't feel that the education they recieve in public school is good enough, then they should haul their ass over to a library. It's free to check out books, and typically libaries have more use than just a place for the local homeless to get in from the cold.

In this era, the "suckiness of public education" is no excuse for someone not knowing anything. Go to the damn libary, crack open a book, get some learning, do well on your tests and grades, and get into a college. Then, graduate, go into politics or some shit and change the bloody school system. But don't bitch about it and do nothing.

random8982
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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 03:39 PM Reply

At 2/2/07 03:28 PM, UWDarDar17 wrote: This arguement is meaningless.

Yet here you are contributing.

lol the irony
We live in an information age, where internet access in America is plentiful, often found in these magical places called public libraries. In addition to the internet, libaries have repositiories of knowedge called books. These books are made from paper products and have printing on them called words. One reads these words to understand the information conveyed in the book.

GASP! No way!

If a student or a parent doesn't feel that the education they recieve in public school is good enough, then they should haul their ass over to a library. It's free to check out books, and typically libaries have more use than just a place for the local homeless to get in from the cold.

But the homeless people bite.

And there's...o yea...school choice for people who want better educations.

In this era, the "suckiness of public education" is no excuse for someone not knowing anything. Go to the damn libary, crack open a book, get some learning, do well on your tests and grades, and get into a college. Then, graduate, go into politics or some shit and change the bloody school system. But don't bitch about it and do nothing.

WHY WOULD ANYONE EVER DO SOMETHING SO SENSIBLE?!??! That has to be the most preposterous thing I've ever heard in my life. Going out and doing something about it...HA! We prefer to bitch about it here at new grounds!

insert sarcasm into post
Dre-Man
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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 03:42 PM Reply

Haha, we just need more money. That's the most idiotic thing ever said, and that's why Bush's administration isn't doing very well for education. Shoving new equipment into schools isn't going to make the students learn better.

Durin413
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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 03:44 PM Reply

At the least the teachers unions should be forcibly disbanded. They'll still have to pay the teachers or else they'll quit, but then firings and such could commence. As of right now I've only heard of one teacher being fired for incompetence.

Personally, though, I like the idea of forcing schools to prove that they are quality or else they get the axe.

Also, remember this when comparing foreign test scores. Many other countries require exams to get into high school, with the losers going to trade schools and suchnot. In America every moron goes to high school (a practice we should remove).Those morons DO bring down the test scores.

Also related to education is the fact that we in America cater to the bottom group. We should let them suffer, and provide stuff for the upper end of students. My school wont let a physics 2 or bio2 (or any other advanced class) be there unless they have at least 18 kids signed up, yet they have the retard calsses with less that 10 per room. And thats standard for schools around where I live. They also be intending to remove certain courses as soon as the current teacher retires. After this year no more wood shop. After the chem teacher retires, no more chem 2, and shes been the only thing keeping the administration from REMOVING THE MATH FROM CHEMISTRY!!!!!!! seriously, how can you learn chemistry if you can't do basic math (usually not even algebra).

SolidSnake2534
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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 03:59 PM Reply

I agree with you. I mean the New Jersey Kids didn't even know what the bill of rights were for. It was to protect the rights of every american individual. The american education system needs to improve a bit.

random8982
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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 03:59 PM Reply

At 2/2/07 03:44 PM, Durin413 wrote: At the least the teachers unions should be forcibly disbanded. They'll still have to pay the teachers or else they'll quit, but then firings and such could commence. As of right now I've only heard of one teacher being fired for incompetence.

I don't know about disbanding teacher unions but they seriously need to be fixed. The current ones are complete shit. And I agree....there are a lot of extremely smart people out there who are teachers for a living. Yet there are a lot of extremely smart teachers who couldn't teach someone to save their life.

Personally, though, I like the idea of forcing schools to prove that they are quality or else they get the axe.

They already do that. It's called "No Child Left Behind."

Also, remember this when comparing foreign test scores. Many other countries require exams to get into high school, with the losers going to trade schools and suchnot. In America every moron goes to high school (a practice we should remove).Those morons DO bring down the test scores.

Not true. In other countries they place education as a highest priority because countries like China and Japan realize that their children will one day lead the country into the future, therefore, they do everything that they can to improve their education systems and make it challenging (Also because most of those countries lean towards the communist side of the political spectrum, they can root out those who are good with their hands instead of with numbers and put them where they would do best, regardless of personal wishes.) Also, not everyone over there has a chance to recieve an education so it is considered something very valuable.

In America, on the other hand, we take education for granted, decimate the public school systems with budget cuts, and often ignore the needs of the schools in general. I know a lot of kids who bombed their standardized tests (MCAS, SATs, etc) but could debate the attorney general of the state into submission. The fact is that kids aren't stupid, they just don't care enough to try, and in many cases, they don't have someone behind them pushing them to do better (parents who care).

Also related to education is the fact that we in America cater to the bottom group. We should let them suffer, and provide stuff for the upper end of students. My school wont let a physics 2 or bio2 (or any other advanced class) be there unless they have at least 18 kids signed up, yet they have the retard calsses with less that 10 per room. And thats standard for schools around where I live. They also be intending to remove certain courses as soon as the current teacher retires. After this year no more wood shop. After the chem teacher retires, no more chem 2, and shes been the only thing keeping the administration from REMOVING THE MATH FROM CHEMISTRY!!!!!!! seriously, how can you learn chemistry if you can't do basic math (usually not even algebra).

Again, you couldn't be more wrong. They cut these advanced courses and remove courses as soon as someone retires because they don't have the money. The state and federal governments cut the funding for public education before they cut anything else, and because the public education board is such a horrific bureaucracy, they spend moeny before they even have a chance to do anything about it. Schools have to order supplies from specific catalogs that charge rediculous amounts of money for the simplist things (one of my history teachers almost got fired for buying a overhead projector from Staples because it was $300 cheaper than the one in the school catalog).

If public education is ever going to get better, then the government needs to stop cutting the funding for it every time they need to find money for something else, and start spending a little bit MORE on public education instead.

JakeHero
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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 04:40 PM Reply

At 2/2/07 03:10 PM, DunjunKrawlr wrote: I feel private schools should be eliminated so that all the people who have their children attending them must then have their children in public education.

All hail Vladimir Dunjun! May his reign be long. Just please don't kill me or my family.


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Camarohusky
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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 05:21 PM Reply

At 2/2/07 03:59 PM, random8982 wrote:
At 2/2/07 03:44 PM, Durin413 wrote:
Also, remember this when comparing foreign test scores. Many other countries require exams to get into high school, with the losers going to trade schools and suchnot. In America every moron goes to high school (a practice we should remove).Those morons DO bring down the test scores.

So test scores are that important? We should just push people out of high school because we want to look better? Who gives a shit about high school anyways? The real competition is amongts colleges, and America is by far much superior in is quality and amount of quality schools.

Not true. In other countries they place education as a highest priority because countries like China and Japan realize that their children will one day lead the country into the future, therefore, they do everything that they can to improve their education systems and make it challenging (Also because most of those countries lean towards the communist side of the political spectrum, they can root out those who are good with their hands instead of with numbers and put them where they would do best, regardless of personal wishes.) Also, not everyone over there has a chance to recieve an education so it is considered something very valuable.

You miss the other side of that equation. They place importance on it, so not only do they try to make the education system better, the society pushes students to succeed, because society find education valuable. Whereas here, in America, we don't care for education, so even the best teachers fight an uphill battle, where a below average teacher in America would be able to teach of Japanese student. Learn is a two way street. teachers, no matter how good they are, cannot do it alone. Good teachers can make it easier for the student, and poor teachers make it harder, but the student MUST try. That's the problem with American education. It is unimportant in the eyes of society.

In America, on the other hand, we take education for granted, decimate the public school systems with budget cuts, and often ignore the needs of the schools in general. I know a lot of kids who bombed their standardized tests (MCAS, SATs, etc) but could debate the attorney general of the state into submission. The fact is that kids aren't stupid, they just don't care enough to try, and in many cases, they don't have someone behind them pushing them to do better (parents who care).

Exactly. I know many kids who could have done so much better, but either because they didnt care, their parents didnt push, their parents actually restricted them from doing well and so on, they did not fulfil their potential.

If public education is ever going to get better, then the government needs to stop cutting the funding for it every time they need to find money for something else, and start spending a little bit MORE on public education instead.

I don't agree with you there. Although the movie made a complete ass of itself and said that money is unimportant, they were right in that money is NOT the solution. Schools do need money to keep good teachers, to keep proper equipment, extra-cirricular activities, upper level classes and such. However, lack of money is not the root of the problem, it's the students' apathy toward school. This movie acts as if every student wants to learn, which I know is complete shit.

When I went to high school, I had the same problems as all of those other high schools. Very little discipline, boring teachers, a hate for school, and students just doing what they wanted, yet we had high test scores and 80% of my class graduated with 50% going to college. I know those numbers are not stellar, but they are in now way a problem. The problem with the school wasn't the teachers. It was the students. Many students were too doped up to function properly. Other students just didn't come to school. There were students who came just because they had, and then left. I know some students whos parents forced them to work and got mad when they studied. It's really hard to get through to a student who doesn't care.

Furthermore, that $9,000 a student fact is quite spurious. The normal avergae student costs maybe around $5,000. It's all of the special cases that drive that average up. The special students cost $50,000+ a piece. The near drop outs cost an extra 2k or so for the school to do what it can just to keep them there to graduate.

DunjunKrawlr
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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 05:53 PM Reply

At 2/2/07 04:40 PM, BanditByte wrote:
At 2/2/07 03:10 PM, DunjunKrawlr wrote: I feel private schools should be eliminated so that all the people who have their children attending them must then have their children in public education.
All hail Vladimir Dunjun! May his reign be long. Just please don't kill me or my family.

What's so wrong about wanting people to start out with the same chances? If you're better than everyone else, you'll still do better than everyone else. This just would give the poor of America a chance to compete with the more priveledged.

random8982
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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 05:56 PM Reply

At 2/2/07 05:21 PM, Camarohusky wrote: You miss the other side of that equation. They place importance on it, so not only do they try to make the education system better, the society pushes students to succeed, because society find education valuable. Whereas here, in America, we don't care for education, so even the best teachers fight an uphill battle, where a below average teacher in America would be able to teach of Japanese student. Learn is a two way street. teachers, no matter how good they are, cannot do it alone. Good teachers can make it easier for the student, and poor teachers make it harder, but the student MUST try. That's the problem with American education. It is unimportant in the eyes of society.

Thanks for pretty much restating what I said, with a little more emphasis. lol

I don't agree with you there. Although the movie made a complete ass of itself and said that money is unimportant, they were right in that money is NOT the solution. Schools do need money to keep good teachers, to keep proper equipment, extra-cirricular activities, upper level classes and such. However, lack of money is not the root of the problem, it's the students' apathy toward school. This movie acts as if every student wants to learn, which I know is complete shit.
When I went to high school, I had the same problems as all of those other high schools. Very little discipline, boring teachers, a hate for school, and students just doing what they wanted, yet we had high test scores and 80% of my class graduated with 50% going to college. I know those numbers are not stellar, but they are in now way a problem. The problem with the school wasn't the teachers. It was the students. Many students were too doped up to function properly. Other students just didn't come to school. There were students who came just because they had, and then left. I know some students whos parents forced them to work and got mad when they studied. It's really hard to get through to a student who doesn't care.

We all know that learning is a two way street and blah blah blah. Yet I still find lack of funding a HUGE part of the problem.

There are a lot of teachers who hate their jobs (and often don't want to teach) because they aren't being paid anywhere near what they should be. In most areas, it's impossible to find a person to put in a teaching position because costs of living are going up, and teacher salaries are staying the same. Makes it kind of hard for a person to make a living off this, and makes the job of teaching very unappealing.

So now we have those few dedicated individuals who would teach for 10 cents a day applying for jobs because they just want to make that difference and pass on what they know. God bless these teachers, because they very much stand alone. With the lack of appeal in the field of teaching, and the lack of funds to pay and hrie new teachers, those few dedicated, hardworking, inspired teachers we do have are teaching in classrooms that have upwards of 30+ kids. And in some schools, these wonderful teachers have 6 classes a day, so 30 x 6 is an average of 180 students per teacher (this all does of course vary on the schools size, this is how my school was).

So now these teachers have to manage classes of 30 kids, for very little pay, in a district where cost of living is sometimes higher, or almost par with what they make. Not very attractive for aspiring teachers now is it? I know it isn't for me. And like you said, there are students who absolutely hate school and never try, which very understandably could put hopelessness into the teacher that no matter what they do, they just can't reach the students they're trying to inspire. In some schools, like one a friend of mine works in, the students all have personal vendettas against the teachers for no reason. Which now brings me to...the students.

What is the most appealing part of high school? For many people, it's the social life and extras that make the time pass. If your high school offers you the opportunity to join clubs or teams or whatever for something you LOVE TO DO (like dance or skateboarding) then kids tend to like school a little more. It gives the students more reason to get involved in their school. Even being part of a little club that meets once a month can create certain bonds between students and the teachers that help run the activity.

Then, if you have more money from funding, you can hire more teachers. When you have an abundance of highly qualified people who are fighting for teaching jobs because they're attractive positions with good pay and benefits, then you can reduce the class sizes. Reducing class sizes give the teachers more one on one time with the students and can allow more personal relationships to develop. The more personal the relationships, the better chance that the students will like their teachers. The better the chance that the students like their teachers, the more willing the students will be to learn. Also, the smaller the class sizes are, the more hands on activities the teachers can do with their students (Which is also another beautiful part of more funding, they can afford to buy more materials to do hands on activities for those visual learners.)

Furthermore, that $9,000 a student fact is quite spurious. The normal avergae student costs maybe around $5,000. It's all of the special cases that drive that average up. The special students cost $50,000+ a piece. The near drop outs cost an extra 2k or so for the school to do what it can just to keep them there to graduate.

The average amount of money spent on students should be much higher than $9,000. Compared to other places, that's being cheap.

HiniberusDelius
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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 05:58 PM Reply

At 2/2/07 10:21 AM, DJ-Jerakai wrote: Yeah. You're right "American" public education sucks.

However, thats not the case in Australia :)

Well from what a friend told me where you live they spent 1hr just learning how to use a calculator... so I wouldn't say anything about stupidity.


Too true:
SCUD14 wrote: I got kicked out a bookshop because someone misplaced the bibles. I returned them to their brethren in fiction.

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dELtaluca
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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 06:03 PM Reply

At 2/2/07 05:58 PM, Hiniberus wrote:
At 2/2/07 10:21 AM, DJ-Jerakai wrote: Yeah. You're right "American" public education sucks.

However, thats not the case in Australia :)
Well from what a friend told me where you live they spent 1hr just learning how to use a calculator... so I wouldn't say anything about stupidity.

ooook, so by your logic, if i meet an american, that doesnt know how to use a calculator, all americans dont know how to use a calculator! WOW. either way, its perfectly reasonable for it to take more than an hour to learn how to use a calculator, some calculators are extremely complex, like programmable graphical calculators.


using ShamelessPlug; NapePhysicsEngine.advertise();

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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 08:53 PM Reply

At 2/2/07 05:53 PM, DunjunKrawlr wrote: What's so wrong about wanting people to start out with the same chances? If you're better than everyone else, you'll still do better than everyone else. This just would give the poor of America a chance to compete with the more priveledged.

Pushing the people on top down is not the solution; instead, we should seek to push the people on the bottom upwards. It's certainly not "fair" that a rich child will have access to a higher standard of education and be more successful than an equally intelligent and hard-working poor child. Nonetheless, subjecting that privileged boy to a lower-quality school is a terrible solution; it would stymie scientific progress. Our goal should be to give everyone the best education possible. Actively seeking to handicap someone by forcing them to acquire a sub-par education is highly authoritarian and inequitable. Don't drag the whole country down to the lowest common denominator of education; raise the lowest common denominator up to the standard of the rest of the country. Anything else would retard progress.

As for wanting everybody to start out with the same chances: rich people do not ask to be born rich; similarly, smart people do not ask to be born smart. Not everybody starts out with the same chances, not even if they have the same amount of wealth. All we can do is ensure that the talents and condition of the "privileged" as used in a way that it consistent with the betterment of society.

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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 2nd, 2007 @ 09:45 PM Reply

At 2/2/07 10:12 AM, BanditByte wrote: This thread has been made before, but I'll say the samething I said last time: education should be privatized and remain as such. The public-schools are subpar and only consume large amounts of taxes and yield very little promise. The education of a child should be up to the parents, not the state.

Do you like installing social levels in life that are impossible to reach or not.

I mean, if private education was mandatory and left to the individual, rags from riches stories would almost be impossible.

The ideal of American is class progress, being able to better your life through hard work and the chance to suceed.

By destroying that, your destroying the chance.

Anyways, education is already a power ceded to the state.


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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 3rd, 2007 @ 02:01 PM Reply

At 2/2/07 05:53 PM, DunjunKrawlr wrote: What's so wrong about wanting people to start out with the same chances?

The highway to hell is paved with good intentions. I got the impression you were a liberal. I thought liberals were all for freedom of choice. So why are you wanting to take away a person's right to choose if their child goes to private or public school?

If you're better than everyone else, you'll still do better than everyone else.

Why should someone even have to suffer then because of someone, who you imply, is beneath them? Isn't a private school better to test the skills of this phantom person than a size-fits-all ciricculum in public schools?

This just would give the poor of America a chance to compete with the more priveledged.

The poor have a good amount of opportunities alotted them, more so than people think. Immigrants that came over here with nothing but the clothes on their back were able to secure a family legacy and live in luxury within fourty years. After so they can give what they've earned to the kids they have.

Not only this, but by eliminating private schools, you give the government an even bigger monopoly on education. Recently charter schools have become alot more popular. Parents feel that public education is subpar. This has caused the government to try and reform the school system in order to save it. So, the big question is: if you get rid of private schools wouldn't the quality of public education go down even further? Without these schools, the public education system would no longer have any competition, and they would not need to better their ciricculums. Private education has gotten them on the run, you can count that it'll make them even more like a competitive company.


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Planktonboy
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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 6th, 2007 @ 05:40 PM Reply

:At 2/3/07 02:01 PM, JakeHero wrote:
:So why are you wanting to take away a person's right to choose if their child goes to private or public school?

Pretty unfair statement, there are many choices we don't have the right to make e.g. the choice to steal, kill. He's asserting that private schools shouldn't have existed to begin with. however this isn't the case so we have to create (gradually) a better, more equal system

The poor have a good amount of opportunities alotted them, more so than people think. Immigrants that came over here with nothing but the clothes on their back were able to secure a family legacy and live in luxury within fourty years. After so they can give what they've earned to the kids they have.

This is pretty irrelavent to the discussion. We don't really care about luxuries, we're discussing education.

Anyway, now that I've sorted that bit I'd like to comment on the debate that's formed. It's become long and confusing, probably because it's trying to cover two partially linked topics.

The first (and my favourite) topic is on birthrights and to what extent we are equal or should be equal at birth. The second is to do with how to rectify the American education system's faults as partially outlined by the video.

On the first topic I personally feel that the system in place for the whole of humanity is unfair. However since we can't choose our family there's little to be done about it. However as a species we tend to recognise that one area in which there is a level playing field is our intellects. I know some people are born stupid but what we can do in this case is to give a fair chance to reach their potential, intelligence is only relative after all.

This then links across to the second topic. From a practical utilitarian point of view private schools are beneficial as they create the small elite required for science and government. However as humans we feel this is wrong (since we'd personally hate to be the one missing out) and object to it. Many people will feel that the money that goes into private education could be redirected somehow into creating a decent public education system (if money is indeed what is required). The idea is that rather than lowering everyone to a crappy standard, everyone gets an acceptable standard of education. As I implied in a previous post (way way up the thread) a degree of mixing is beneficial to all parties involved.

In further condemnation of private education I'd like to refer to a friend of mine from college. His grades are great, however he's got them by working very, very, very hard the whole time. This is a large feature of private education since you are forced to by the school who want to preserve their rankings and by parents who want to get the most out of their investment to work hard. Now this attitude has done my friend no good at all. While his good grades and stirling knowledge of A level Physics have secured him a place at Cambridge, his knowledge of poular physics is below mine which worries me greatly. Also he finds it impossible to write concisely about anything which is going to cause him problems when writing 10,000 word dissertations (surprisinlgy short when you have a whole year to write it). He also doesn't understand standards of proof since he writes so much that he usually manages to prove things somewhere in the answer. What I am trying to say is that the psychology of private schooling has done irreparable damage to his intellect and I am quite concerned for his future.

What I am trying to say is that while private schooling generates good grades, it doesn't often produce the extra intelligence and appreciation of scientific method etc. that is the most desirable output of education. We don't want people with art or science degrees, we want artists and scientists. My argument is that private schooling doesn't produce these qualities particularly well so there is no point in some people receiveing private schooling and others barely receiving an education at all.

Sorry this all sounds a bit like a court address, I'm not sure what came over me to write so much

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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 6th, 2007 @ 05:50 PM Reply

i agree with you guys, public schooling sucks, students hate their teachers, teachers hate their students and nobody learns anything


check out my website

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Response to Public Education sucks Feb. 6th, 2007 @ 08:14 PM Reply

public education is so bad that the country is becoming stupiderer than ever...