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Well, the time has come for me to finally get rid of my ancient computer. I have saved up $800 to buy a new one. With the release of vista, I assume most pcs will have it. Now my question is, does anyone know the combatibility of Vista with studio programs? I run FL, but I have been thinking of maybe switching to Reason. I think they will still run ok, but i'm thinking of maybe just sticking with xp or media center. Any thoughts? And you know when you need an upgrade when it lags as you type.
Alright, what you mean by "Ancient" computer? As in the Sound,gfx cards and other components? If so then guy new components and just format your pc.
SCUD14 wrote: I got kicked out a bookshop because someone misplaced the bibles. I returned them to their brethren in fiction.
Don't bother with Vista, give it a while, it's just XP with some tight restictions, and a prettier interface.
wait it out a long while before even contemplating, taking it on
At 1/30/07 04:01 PM, Stealth-Emergence wrote: Don't bother with Vista, give it a while, it's just XP with some tight restictions, and a prettier interface.
wait it out a long while before even contemplating, taking it on
I agree, the first version will probably be error ridden anyway.
Vista will lag the hell out of you while making music with all its nifty shit..Stick with XP or something.Even tho you can turn off the nifty shit in vista the OS itself is pretty heavy i assume.
At 1/30/07 05:46 PM, B0UNC3 wrote: Vista will lag the hell out of you while making music with all its nifty shit..Stick with XP or something.Even tho you can turn off the nifty shit in vista the OS itself is pretty heavy i assume.
Very very true. I have it. And it doesn't nothing but shit for my studio. I switched back to Windows XP Professional. Thats you're best bet.
I'm not a Microsoft shill or anything but for those who are listing reasons not to use Vista - where are you getting your info from? Can you point to any reliable sources or tech-docs or are you just making assumptions about what Vista is and isn't?
Stealth-Emergence says "it's just XP with some tight restictions..."
Zodiak7 says "the first version will probably be error ridden anyway"
B0UNC3 says "Vista will lag the hell out of you while making music...i assume"
Anth0n says "It clogs everything up"
Only one person, WilliamVance, says that he's actually used it...
Have any of the rest of you actually used it or are you just guessing?
I have no problems with anyone saying it's all crap if there is anything out there to support it but I have a feeling that a lot of people are just making assumptions.
I've read a few articles on people using early builds of Vista and having problems and I've also read a few articles that specifically talk about the benefits of running Vista on your DAW - 6 one way , half a dozen the other...
If anyone actually has Vista installed, please post your system specs and the audio software/hardware that you are using along with your impressions of the performance under the new OS.
I have no idea how Vista will work with my software - I'll be sure to let you know once it arrives.
At 1/31/07 12:38 AM, LJCoffee wrote: I'm not a Microsoft shill or anything but for those who are listing reasons not to use Vista - where are you getting your info from? Can you point to any reliable sources or tech-docs or are you just making assumptions about what Vista is and isn't?
I've used the beta, and I know there are probably plenty of improvements in the full version but the structure and everything are generally the same. Rather than integrating the features seamlessly, Vista has every feature run on a separate process, and every process takes up RAM.
On a totally unrelated note, WilliamVance has an interesting name because a kid who graduated from my high school a few years ago was named Vance Williams.
Newest song: Dinosaur Alien
At 1/31/07 12:38 AM, LJCoffee wrote: blabla...
I'm not making any assumptions...since when doesn't excessive gfx usage hog cpu power?Try to play a really REALLY heavy cpu game on a cpu thats not top notch and and then switch over to a sequencer with the game running in the back... If that doesn't affect your compability with the sequencer then you must have 1 of the best computers ever?
Thats assuming you dont have a dual core with 4 gig ram?
The MOST optimal for producing would be like...the cpu usage of Windows 98 SE and the effectivness of Windows XP.
At 1/31/07 12:45 AM, Stealth-Emergence wrote: Want Vista?
Read This article
Looked to me to be an article on DRM and copy protection I stopped reading after several paragraphs as I could see nothing there that would indicate Vista's performance as it relates to a DAW.
At 1/31/07 02:13 AM, Anth0n wrote: Vista has every feature run on a separate process, and every process takes up RAM.
Yeah - my understanding is that Vista handles RAM much differently than prior versions.
From what I've read, Vista will pre-load commonly used programs and files into RAM so that they are ready when (if) you need them. Not really a big deal though because if you're using something unexpected then Vista dumps what you don't need to hold what you do. And if your audio apps are what you use most often anyways then it should result in small performance gains. Again though - I really don't know yet.
At 1/31/07 03:35 AM, B0UNC3 wrote:At 1/31/07 12:38 AM, LJCoffee wrote: blabla...I'm not making any assumptions...
Well B0UNC3 - you are - you said you are - and don't get all snippy with me about it either - I said you were making assumptions simply because you ended your post with "i assume"
At 1/31/07 03:35 AM, B0UNC3 wrote: If that doesn't affect your compability with the sequencer then you must have 1 of the best computers ever?
As for Graphics, bells and whistles taking up RAM - Of course they do - but nobody says you have to use them. If your PC isn't on the high end then you can disable the Aero glass GUI and use one of the other less intensive UI's - just like with most earlier versions of Windows. But then it also has a few new features like the "Ready Boost" which will supposedly allow you to use a USB drive as a HD cache which will speed up read/write times quite a bit - this could be a performance booster for anyone using lots of samples - or perhaps other large files like .rfl's.
I see several people commented but only one person actually referenced anything - and I'm not even certain how that article has much to do with performance issues. Unless you're all running illegal copies of FL Studio and are worried that Vista won't let your pirated software run correctly...
I have a copy of Vista on the way - when it gets here I'll install it and let you all know if there are any problems or performance issues - I'm asking others to do the same.
I got Vista today...
then i closed 'Windows'..
get it? cause 'vista' means 'view'..like..opening the window, looking at the view...err....
I'm going to bed.
I've used vista before but trust me your gonna need a beast of a computer to have it running nice. You would need AT LEAST 1 GB of RAM and some duo processors. But other than that Vista pretty nice but its just like xp basically.
Well LJC although the article does go into great detail on DRM and how things are dealt with, it also goes into Hardware issues and various other issues, I read this article a while ago and read it in full, it's worth checking into to give you some idea of what to expect
I have nothing to worry about with regards to FL so no pointing fingers at me, Mine's legit :P
At 1/31/07 12:39 PM, Stealth-Emergence wrote: Well LJC although the article does go into great detail on DRM and how things are dealt with, it also goes into Hardware issues and various other issues, I read this article a while ago and read it in full, it's worth checking into to give you some idea of what to expect
I'll go check the rest of it out - like I said the first part seemed to deal with DRM so I stopped reading after a bit.
I have nothing to worry about with regards to FL so no pointing fingers at me, Mine's legit :P
Good - I'm happy to hear that you're using legit software - a very large number of peeps here are using less than legal copies...
At 1/31/07 01:16 PM, Setu-Firestorm wrote:At 1/30/07 07:31 PM, Anth0n wrote: Vista is like a giant turd in a toilet. It clogs everything up.Couldn'ta said it better meself!
How long have you had Vista installed? If you could go ahead and post your system specs, a list of the audio apps that you're using and describe the problems that Vista is causing you then I'm sure that info would help others make a decisision concerning an upgrade.
My current set up is getting me by.
I don't know what Vista can offer me besides DX10. I'm not a gamer, DX10 is a moot point as far as I'm concerned.
And when you have 2 gigs of ram, you like as much of it to be dedicated to your audio as possible...not being hogged by a bunch of processes you don't even need. Just keeping in mind my music is audio and sample heavy.
Well.... Vista is installed and everything seems to run fine. Did the upgrade to keep all programs and settings intact. I needed to re-authorize a few apps like Reason and some of the Native Instruments stuff but that wasn't a problem at all.
I'm currently running Vista Business 32 bit - for those of you that are running Vista, here are my Index scores:
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU @ 2.66GHz - 5.9
Memory (RAM) 2.00 GB - 4.7
Graphics NVIDIA GeForce 7950 GX2 (Microsoft Corporation - WDDM) - 5.9
Gaming graphics 783 MB Total available graphics memory - 5.8
Primary hard disk 503GB Free (695GB Total) - 5.7
(Computers with a base score of 5 were the highest performing computers available when Windows Vista was released)
I have not yet been able to fully test things out but so far I haven't had any problems running any audio apps.
I did receive a warning from the Vista install that Reason might have a few problems but so far I have not had a single one. Reason runs at least as well as it did under XP - possibly a slight bit better.
AcidPro runs great under Vista - no problems at all (yet)
Some VST's appear to be running faster - Samplers and Romplers seem to work a little quicker. I'm not sure if it's due to the USB ReadyBoost feature or better disk access in general though.
I have not yet looked at anything related to WaveRT but overall it seems that I do have lower latency across most audio apps that I've played with so far - at least with standard ASIO drivers. I'm not certain but I think that untill apps support WaveRT it will sit dormant. Either way, if the developers release patches or updates or whatever it is they do, then I'll look into it more. For now I'll wait on any changes in this area.
I've read that some apps will have problems but there seems to be decent compatibility options in Vista for programs that don't work directly out of their boxes.
Here's by bottom line -
So far I think that audio apps should not be a major consideration when thinking about an upgrade to Vista.
Everything seems alright so far. Then again, I'm running a pretty high end system - PC's with middle or lower end specs may not do nearly as well...
If you're upgrading anyway, like I was, then it seems that audio apps are working at least as well as they did in XP - possibly a little better (but only a hair).
However, I have yet to see any major audio advantages with Vista, so if you're running XP and happy with it then you probably wouldn't want to upgrade just for audio's sake.
I hope that helps someone out there -
agreeing with everyone else. it takes up too much HDD space (8 GIGS), too much RAM (requires 2 GIG ram mem sticks. its very slow. it wants to run its own programs. in all realitiy vista is its own worst enemy. honestly downgrade to 2000 pro. it doesnt take up too much drive space, barely uses any ram, and you can do some serious multi tasking (hp vectra vli8 w/ 626 mhz cpu, 125 mb ddr ram. never had any issues and ran like a dream.)
At 4/26/07 12:09 PM, Phase-X-807 wrote: ....So,its good then?
So far it seems to be.
At 4/26/07 12:30 PM, hellsmaw18 wrote: ...too much HDD space (8 GIGS), too much RAM (requires 2 GIG ram mem sticks. its very slow. it wants to run its own programs. ...and you can do some serious multi tasking (hp vectra vli8 w/ 626 mhz cpu, 125 mb ddr ram. never had any issues and ran like a dream.)
Good for you that you're still able to multitask like a madman on a completely outdated system. You might want to buy a new calendar and join the rest of us in the 21st century though - just a thought...
Sorry but as for the rest of it, I'm just not seeing the same downsides.
"too much HDD space" - Not really... I had an old system back in the early 90's that was running Win3.1 - It took up about 25MB of space on a 160MB drive. (about 15% of the total drive space). I have no idea exactly how much space Vista is taking up but let's assume that you are correct and call it 8GB. It's installed on a 695GB drive which works out to about 1.15%... Seriously - 8GB is nothing these days - Hell, I've played games that took up more space than that... My Reason directory alone takes up about 3 and I'm sure there are people here that have way more than that in there!
"too much RAM" - Same as above - ram used to be expensive, but now you can pick up 2GB for about $160 - not really that big of a deal... Besides, anyone who will be using the higher end content creation wares, like some audio apps, should have that much installed already.
"its very slow" - I haven't noticed that at all. Like I said in my above post - everything is currently running at least as fast as it did two days ago under XP if not faster. Photoshop runs great, Premiere Pro is speeding along, Flash is working great - same for Cinema4d, Hexagon, Poser, After Effects, Audition, SoundForge, Bryce, Deep Paint, etc. etc. My point is that I run a lot of high end programs and so far not a single one of them has shown poor performance - none of them have show degraded performance when compared to XP, ME, 2000, 98, 95 or 3.11...
"it wants to run its own programs" - I don't know where you're coming from with this one... Running it's own programs? Maybe you're trying to say that things are running in the background that are beyond your control. First of all that's a non-argument - Every OS will running various tasks in the background. Maybe you're talking about something else - I haven't had a problem with it yet - If I do then I'll let someone know but so far I've had control over what gets run and what doesn't what gets access to the network and what doesn't and so on - Like I said - I'm not sure where you're coming from so I'll drop that one...
I'm not trying to be a Microsoft shill here - I'm just reporting my findings so far and so far Vista is running great.
Phase-X-807, I'm sorry that you're having so many problems with your system running Vista - could you post your system specs and applications here so that others who have similar rigs can be made aware of potential problems - thanks.
At 4/26/07 02:07 PM, LJCoffee wrote: Phase-X-807... post your system specs
Correction - the above request should have been for hellsmaw18 not Phase-X-807
At 4/26/07 02:07 PM, LJCoffee wrote:
:Seriously - 8GB is nothing these days - Hell, I've played games that took up more space than that... My Reason directory alone takes up about 3 and I'm sure there are people here that have way more than that in there!
I have a 20 GB hard-drive :'(
At 4/26/07 02:22 PM, EchozAurora wrote:
I have a 20 GB hard-drive :'(
Harsh :S...the time is fast approaching when well be able to easily buy terabyte capacity in a single drive. Thats 50 times the storage of your HD. $70 will net you a 160GB hard drive at Best Buy or the same drive but SATA (if you have a SATA controller).
There was too much to read, so I'm just going to add in my 2 cents and answer the man's questions. I have vista on my laptop, it runs Reason 3.0 just fine. Reason within itself is very cpu light and doesn't use many resources, so if vista is "heavy" as some people may claim, then you still have nothing to worry about. I haven't yet tried reinstalling FL on my laptop so I dunno what to tell you there, but know that I HAVE successfully installed and am currently using Word '97 in vista. I think it's a common misconception people have that you can only use the latest software in vista, but this doesn't seem true at all. I think that FL would run just fine, but it wouldn't hurt turning off vista's "areo" theme and save yourself some cpu and resources since FL seems to be quite cpu heavy (much more so than Reason, at least).
At 4/26/07 02:08 PM, LJCoffee wrote:At 4/26/07 02:07 PM, LJCoffee wrote: Phase-X-807... post your system specsCorrection - the above request should have been for hellsmaw18 not Phase-X-807
well, out of all the operating systems 2k pro is the most stable out of all of them unlike xp which still has a lot of bugs after all these years its been released. and besides, its more user-friendly and has more functionability than xp or vista.... oh, and i did read the specs for vista and it does use and do a lot of the things ive mentioned. just be glad were not stuck in the days of win 3.XX
At 4/27/07 02:51 AM, hellsmaw18 wrote: ...2k pro is the most stable...[and] its more user-friendly and has more functionability than xp or vista.... oh, and i did read the specs for vista and it does use and do a lot of the things ive mentioned. just be glad were not stuck in the days of win 3.XX
Sure, 2kpro is quite stable - it beats the hell out of 98 which seemed to crash 5 times a day for no apparent reason. And yes the Windows OS has come a long way since v.3
Like I said earlier, I'm not pushing for everyone to uprade - there really isn't any audio related reason why you should - ME and XP are both fine for audio. But also, as I said, there are no audio related reasons not to upgrade either.
I'm glad that you read a Vista spec sheet but I haven't yet experienced any of the issues that you pointed out earlier - Others might, but I have not. I'm hoping that I don't - I suppose time will tell on that one.
At 4/27/07 03:08 AM, jarrydn wrote: I'd rather be stuck with 3.11
Copy of Voyetra Pro, and a bunch of outboard gear. Yes plz.
Old school... :D
Sorry jarrydn, you know I respect you but I'm not sure I share the sentiment. I'm too fond of the newer apps.
Arguing which OS is "the best" really is a bit silly though - Considering that Voyd was asking about compatibility with Vista I'll focus on that for now:
SoundForge 8.0d and Audition 2 work here. No issues at all yet
Reason 3.0.4, AcidPro 6.0d and Podium 1.77 work. No issues at all yet
I haven't had any problems with any VST's yet either - NI's B4, FM7, Pro-53, Massive, Reaktor5 and Kompakt all work. Zebra2 and it's variants work.
AnalogX apps all seem to work.
Here are a few apps that had problems or needed adjustments:
AudioMulch 1.0 ran correctly with minor adjustments to compatibility settings (needed to have the "Run this program as an administrator" box checked)
ComputerMuzys 1.5 apparently will not work at all with DirectSound Drivers - Use ASIO and it works fine
Tuareg 2 has problems and will not run correctly unless you set the compatibility to Win98/Win ME - after that it sems to run fine.
Moonfish and Hammerhead did not work correctly - I think it may be related to the DirectSound problem that CM1.5 was having at first.
then again how many people are using these apps anyways?
A side note about Vista stability:
In testing some of the above problem softwares, I apparently hurt the OS a bit - while I was writing this I got a message that Windows Explorer stopped working and needed to be be restarted - no crash - no blue screen - no reboot, this all happened while I was typing this - Explorer re-initialized without shutting this window down or causing me to lose any data. Seems alright to me - better than a 98 BSOD by far.
I'll post more results here and there as I get around to testing this and that - Others might help by doing the same.