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At 1/30/07 06:11 PM, Memorize wrote: Ironic, some foreigner from a country that complains about American restricting freedom, telling me that the US is stupid for... not restricting freedom. Gotta love it.

Oh, terribly sorry. I didn't realise that whatever someone from one country says, they speak for the whole country. As everyone from Britain must have the same views. And it should be illegal, as it results in minorities being alienated. Wouldn't your country lock up some radical Muslim cleric?

At 1/30/07 10:05 PM, Memorize wrote: I read that article again, and it was funny because once again, this sentence stood out: "But they say her comments afterwards raised further concerns, for example allegedly referring to the students as "blacks" - something she denied yesterday." Wow, apparently you can be jailed for refering to black people as... blacks. Amazing.

They weren't black you moron. They were Arab as they were speaking Urdu. Jeez, get it right. Besides, this is one tiny isolated incident which you seem to be judging as the whole country.

At 1/31/07 06:03 AM, TheRoyalEnglishman wrote:

At 1/30/07 06:11 PM, Memorize wrote: Ironic, some foreigner from a country that complains about American restricting freedom, telling me that the US is stupid for... not restricting freedom. Gotta love it.

Oh, terribly sorry. I didn't realise that whatever someone from one country says, they speak for the whole country. As everyone from Britain must have the same views.

Apparently, one person does represent the views of the whole country, since you're acting that way now towards Americans.

And it should be illegal, as it results in minorities being alienated. Wouldn't your country lock up some radical Muslim cleric?

For what? Show one similar example.

At 1/30/07 10:05 PM, Memorize wrote:

They weren't black you moron. They were Arab as they were speaking Urdu. Jeez, get it right. Besides, this is one tiny isolated incident which you seem to be judging as the whole country.

What difference does it make? She was arrested for saying something that did not harm these people physically or financially. Unless someone uses language in a matter that is physically threating, such as death threats, threats against one's family, etc., or financially harmful, such as libel or slander, there is no valid reason for the government to intervene--because a good government is there to protect life, liberty, and property, and these students had none of these taken away by this girl.

Alienated my foot. If people can't stand up to name calling by ignorant people like this girl, then that should be their problem, not the government's. I got teased and name-called a lot in school for aspects of me I had no control over, e.g. stuttering, astigmatism. I dealt with it, there's no reason whatsoever why anyone else can't.

You wan't to make minorities alienated? How about looming the spectre of jail or fines over the majority of the population, causing them to mince words, or worse yet, avoid minorities altogether to avoid ever being accused of "racism".

And in the end, what does it solve? Nothing. Laws can't get inside people's heads and remove the ignorance that causes people to be genuinely racist. That has to be done by open-ended dialog and discussion between races. And these race laws do nothing to aid that dialog and discussion.

Anyone mind if I play devils advocate?
An example of a statement- "I feel really bad, I feel disgusted with myself the way I've treated you and the way I've acted, because I'm not like that, Shilpa, really," ... "And you can even cook me curry and you can pick the onions out with your fingers." (from wikipedia, so take it how you want)
To me, this doesn't show that she's racist- just significantly under-educated. Anyone whose watche dBig Brother with Jade Goody knows that she's not exactly the sharpest knife in the draw, but to me that doesn't mean that she's outwardly racist, just... an ignorant twat, basicaly...
And I don't think the government should have had much input into this- they have no control over what people say (though debatable in the UK considering we have the secrecy act and other such things... but I am talking idealistically here). So if the media reports it, its up to the individual, surely?
If the governement gets involved then its setting itself in an argument it didn't start and can't finish...

What exactly is wrong with racism? Racism means that you just make distinction between different races of people.
I myself am a racist.

At 1/31/07 06:03 AM, TheRoyalEnglishman wrote:

Oh, terribly sorry. I didn't realise that whatever someone from one country says, they speak for the whole country.

You're doing an excellent job.

At 1/30/07 10:05 PM, Memorize wrote:

They weren't black you moron. They were Arab as they were speaking Urdu. Jeez, get it right.

It doesn't matter if they were or not. And, I did understand it, just wanted to jazz it up a bit since I wouldn't be suprised if I go over there i'd get thrown in jail for calling a black person black.

Besides, this is one tiny isolated incident which you seem to be judging as the whole country.

I'm just acting like you British.

Anyway, I'am a minority (Indian) so I can say whatever the hell I want about this situation. You don't see me getting my nipples in a twist over a few words.

At 1/28/07 08:42 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote: Who the fuck really cares.

She insulted some Indian, really thats not that big of a deal.

It's because Shilpa (the indian person) was considered royalty in india

Indian people see this as more than bullying, hence racist bullying, they took this a little overboard

Plus Jade saying "Shilpa popadom" didn't help

I covered this on my blog last week, so:

Anyway, as everyone else has commented about her general behaviour in the house (I couldn't comment as I haven't watched Big Brother since 2002 - coincidentally the year she was on it as a contestant), but it can be summed up quite easily: racist bullying towards fellow contestant and Bollywood star/icon Shilpa Shetty.

However, I'm going to talk about the post-eviction events, since the story seems to have died the second she left the house.

First and foremost, she wasn't the only racist in the house - Danielle Lloyd, Jo O'Meara and Jack Tweedy are still inside the house, after all. Frankly, I'm surprised there hasn't been a major backlash as Shilpa survived at the expense of "their mate", so we can thank the small mercies for her sake.

However, she surely got the easiest ride when evicted, as there was no crowd in case somebody lynched her (the problem being?) or something, and the usual interview afterwards was certainly not pressing her on the accusations of racism. Yet this is not why it was an easy ride - it's quite clear she was told what was going on and was perfectly aware of what was in store, as somebody from either Endemol or Channel 4 clued her in. While this was denied over the weekend by both parties, it's clearly obvious for two reasons:
1.) Jade did not seem surprised to be walking out to an empty lot in the slightest (allegedly somebody mentioned they couldn't hear a crowd, and Jade said she knew why - again pointing to this.)
2.) During the interview, Jade said "Apparently I said a racist word that is offensive, and I've been told not to repeat it." Who told her not to repeat it?

But since then, there's been an up swell in support from her, and this is also pointing out what nobody seems to admit about England and its inherently racist culture just below the surface. People stating Shilpa "was arrogant" (which makes it OK to racially abuse her, of course!), the apparent excuse that Jade isn't racist, only ignorant (one leads to the other), Jade isn't the one in the house that played the race card (of course there was no reason to...), and John McCririck was bullying Bridgit Nielsen and Jackie Stallone, yet nobody claimed it was racist...because apparently its racist to bully white women when you're white? In short, the people defending Jade are so thick they can't tell the difference between racism and sexism, or think that Dirk Benedict describing Jade's family as "white trash" is anything other than observant.

While Channel 4 are holding a Big Brother summit, making it sound like something at the UN and the viewers are shooting through the roof as it appeals to people due to being "well racist", there was another case of racism on Shipwrecked - but this time, the other contestants almost immediately admonished the contestant, Lucy Buchanan (who is quite possibly the most close minded person in TV history), as opposed to encouraging her or looking the other way the whole time.

Worst of all, Jade is trying to get sympathy, saying she's scared to go home, her house has been vandalised (a claim strongly dismissed by the police, as was her claim she needed officers to stand guard at her house), and she's tried tearful apologies left and right following her obviously coached responses on Friday's post-eviction show. She probably thinks she's in the clear, while her friends don't realise they're in for a rough ride when they're evicted soon enough.

But, as a final thought, here's a proposition: if nobody in the house has a problem with Shilpa and she gets on with every non-chav, why was she up for eviction in the first place last week?

At 1/31/07 08:14 AM, IllustriousPotentate wrote: Apparently, one person does represent the views of the whole country, since you're acting that way now towards Americans.

No, I'm not. Never have I seen one American do something and then said 'America is all like that'.

For what? Show one similar example.

That Muttada Al-Sadda guy who got extradited to the US for radical preaching. His name was something like that. He was 'expressing his right of free speech'.

Alienated my foot. If people can't stand up to name calling by ignorant people like this girl, then that should be their problem, not the government's. I got teased and name-called a lot in school for aspects of me I had no control over, e.g. stuttering, astigmatism. I dealt with it, there's no reason whatsoever why anyone else can't.

Well see, the government here wants to integrate communties. That's just the way it works.

At 1/31/07 10:04 AM, Memorize wrote: It doesn't matter if they were or not. And, I did understand it, just wanted to jazz it up a bit since I wouldn't be suprised if I go over there i'd get thrown in jail for calling a black person black.

Well why don't you try it then? Besides, like I said, this was one isolated incident.

I'm just acting like you British.

Oh man, that's funny.

Anyway, I'am a minority (Indian) so I can say whatever the hell I want about this situation. You don't see me getting my nipples in a twist over a few words.

Doesn't mean other people aren't.

At 1/31/07 08:40 AM, specimen56 wrote: Anyone mind if I play devils advocate?
An example of a statement- "I feel really bad, I feel disgusted with myself the way I've treated you and the way I've acted, because I'm not like that, Shilpa, really," ... "And you can even cook me curry and you can pick the onions out with your fingers." (from wikipedia, so take it how you want)
To me, this doesn't show that she's racist- just significantly under-educated. Anyone whose watche dBig Brother with Jade Goody knows that she's not exactly the sharpest knife in the draw, but to me that doesn't mean that she's outwardly racist, just... an ignorant twat, basicaly...
And I don't think the government should have had much input into this- they have no control over what people say (though debatable in the UK considering we have the secrecy act and other such things... but I am talking idealistically here). So if the media reports it, its up to the individual, surely?
If the governement gets involved then its setting itself in an argument it didn't start and can't finish...

Racism is rooted in ignorance, so that first statement is basically wrong. It's not just ignorance, as you so put it, it is also racism, and her form of bullying was particularly ironic given that Jade was a spokesperson for an anti-bullying group (which she was removed from soon after this whole incident).

The British government seemed to have gotten involved because the Indian government ragged on them about what happened on this show. Was India a bit overzealous? Perhaps, because there was already enough righteous indignation and anger from the regular people. But the British government was trying to cover their own asses, and that's why they stepped in.

At 1/31/07 12:43 PM, TheRoyalEnglishman wrote:

Well why don't you try it then? Besides, like I said, this was one isolated incident.

It's just too bad that it being isolated doesn't make it irrelevant.

Oh man, that's funny.

Good. I'm glad you can laugh at yourself.

Doesn't mean other people aren't.

It also doesn't mean they need to get hurt by every little comment like it'll ruin their lives. Haha, it is rather sad when people feel the need to get 'emo' about the situation. Freedom of Speech is still freedom of speech. That's why it's so ironic that here we have you going out of your way to defend a nation that frequently complains about the US restricting freedoms when they do it themselves.

But hey, i'm not the one who thinks that if someone is having trouble in a group and asks to switch, that that person should be jailed for it.

So what i'm going to do right now, is laugh at your nation's hypocracy.

At 1/31/07 12:48 PM, qygibo wrote: Racism is rooted in ignorance, so that first statement is basically wrong. It's not just ignorance, as you so put it, it is also racism, and her form of bullying was particularly ironic given that Jade was a spokesperson for an anti-bullying group (which she was removed from soon after this whole incident).

The British government seemed to have gotten involved because the Indian government ragged on them about what happened on this show. Was India a bit overzealous? Perhaps, because there was already enough righteous indignation and anger from the regular people. But the British government was trying to cover their own asses, and that's why they stepped in.

Racism, to be, is when you purposefully egativly comment about someone based on their ethnicity- I really don't think Jade meant to at any point be purposely discriminatory. Its hard in these situations because I grew up in an area where racism is the norm in many ways- and I'm not trying to defend that, its just easy to get sucked in by the ignorance without thinking about what your saying because you may not have experienced how those words affect others.
Racism may be based in ignorance, but thats not to say that all ignorance is racism...
To me at least :/

I think Channel 4 must have given the Indian media some money to blow it all out of proportion. I couldnt help but laugh when on India News 24 the newsreader states
"The British government has stepped in to condemn racist slur from the Big Brother house"

While most people are still scratching their heads thinking
"Was that actually racist"
The indian media are going right ahead and shouting it out aloud. Thus ensuring sympathy aplenty will be theirs. I even here the Queen now wants to meet Shilpa Poppadum (OH NOEZ!), if thats not bullshit PR then what is?

Not trying to sound like some heretical racist here but it seems to me that theres 1 rules for White people and a different rules for everyone else.
i.e. Scottish person - Jock or Scott ; Not seen as racist
American person - Yank : Not seen as racist
Pakistani Person - Paki : Racist
Japanese Person - Nip - Racist (Although they themselves call Japan Nippon)
Arabic Person - Arab : Not racist but some people take it on a bad chord

In the media it also seems that the only people in the Universe that ever say anything remotely racist are white people. If a Brit was in an Indian Big Brother house and got discriminated in the same way as Shilpa I doubt BBC news 24 would come out with
"The Indian government has condemned racist slur from the ......"

Shilpa Poppadum is no more racist than Calling a Scotman "Scott Haggis", or an American "Ted Hamburger" if that is racist then they had best ban Highlander in a hurry ("You stupid Haggis").

That Ex Miss GB hotty asking if Indians eat with their hands was deemed as racist. But wait, people in India do eat with their hands. Right hand for feasting, Left hand for wiping. Her tone seemed none to considerate about it but she didnt actually say anything deragatory about it.

At 1/31/07 05:59 PM, Memorize wrote: It's just too bad that it being isolated doesn't make it irrelevant.

Yes it does, because it doesn't reflect the country as a whole.

It also doesn't mean they need to get hurt by every little comment like it'll ruin their lives. Haha, it is rather sad when people feel the need to get 'emo' about the situation. Freedom of Speech is still freedom of speech. That's why it's so ironic that here we have you going out of your way to defend a nation that frequently complains about the US restricting freedoms when they do it themselves.

What is your definition of 'nation'? You keep saying that I'm defending a 'nation that frequently complains'. I haven't. A few people don't represent the whole nation. In fact, I'd bet that a lot of the people complaining about American freedom are Americans themselves. Most of the people over here don't care about what you do. Offensive racist comments about someone should be punished as it promotes an 'us and them' mentality. It's not like they lock them up anyway, the punishments are usually minor.

But hey, i'm not the one who thinks that if someone is having trouble in a group and asks to switch, that that person should be jailed for it.

I don't think that. In fact, if you go to that topic, click on the link and go to the discussion bit then you'll find that 99% of people from this country think it is ridiculous.

So what i'm going to do right now, is laugh at your nation's hypocracy.

'Your nation' again. You obviously don't know my nation very well.

At 2/1/07 07:33 AM, specimen56 wrote:

Racism, to be, is when you purposefully egativly comment about someone based on their ethnicity- I really don't think Jade meant to at any point be purposely discriminatory. Its hard in these situations because I grew up in an area where racism is the norm in many ways- and I'm not trying to defend that, its just easy to get sucked in by the ignorance without thinking about what your saying because you may not have experienced how those words affect others.
Racism may be based in ignorance, but thats not to say that all ignorance is racism...
To me at least :/

Sure she did. I've seen several clips, and her derogatory tone of voice alone is enough to convince me that she meant her; her and her other buddies in bullying. To say that she didn't mean to be purposely discriminatory--the damn girl herself had been bullied prior. She knew damn well how to bully others as a result, and damn well knew how to step it up with some of the comments she had made.

Ignorance isn't always racism, but a lot of the time, people tend to be WILLFULLY ignorant---they refuse to learn about other cultures, and they choose to refer to stereotypes rather than actual learning.

Let's face it... shit like this is the very reason yall watch this show. Acting all scandalized is a travesty. If things like this didn't happen, the only reason people would watch is to catch them screwing on the lawn or something.

At 2/1/07 04:39 PM, Ravariel wrote: Let's face it... shit like this is the very reason yall watch this show. Acting all scandalized is a travesty. If things like this didn't happen, the only reason people would watch is to catch them screwing on the lawn or something.

I agree. Now Big Brother is just finding people who will start arguments and have different views on the world. So they just do it to stir up shit and get more ratings.

At 2/1/07 04:39 PM, Ravariel wrote: Let's face it... shit like this is the very reason yall watch this show. Acting all scandalized is a travesty. If things like this didn't happen, the only reason people would watch is to catch them screwing on the lawn or something.

You're half right - there seems to have been an attitude in all the reporting of the whole deal along these lines: "There's no place for racist bullying on British TV - now, let's watch it again!"

The whole thing is all a bit of crap. They just made it "racist" so they could get more viewers and who gives a shit about this bullying. When i was at skl lots of kids got bullied but no one recieved death threats and worldwide protests did they?

Great cover to The Star on Saturday (yes, I know it's not a paper) - "EVERY READER GETS A FREE CURRY, with a pic of Shilpa for no reason other to say you can "Get hot like Shilpa with our free offer."

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe people other than those from the Indian subcontinent eat curry - a cursory glance over the menu at a Japanese or Thai restaurant would indicate this.

Oh, and whoever typed it, no - it wasn't about calling her "Shilpa Poppadom." It was about comments like "Why doesn't she fuck off home" and certain contestants taking the piss out of her accent.