The Us Vs China

[DJ-Jerakai]

Militarily.

How would it play down?
Lets have a look at what each side has.

Excluding allied countries.

How long would such a conflict last?
What might the outcome be?
Economic, social and militarily?

Don't forget China keeps the world economy propped up.

[Jenalen]

dunno and don't think we ever really will unless it happens which i really don't want to happen. but you make a good point even if we were to defeat the Chinese we might suffer equaly with the soon followed huge drop in global economy. one thing i think china has against it militarily is that im guessing that the people of china aren't exactly thrilled about not haveing many personal freedoms and the U.S. freedom has been our tradeback as far back as i remember so im just gonna go out on a limb here and say that the displeased people of china might cause just as many problems at home as would the U.S. also remember that china had a long civil war less than a centuary ago. im pretty sure theres still lots of hard feelings

[zzzzd]

At the moment America would win, But could probably stop america invading and taking control.

In the not so distant future China may well win.

[Cheekyvincent]

Yh america would win now BUT Russia and some other Asian countries would help China BUT U.K would help America coz Tony Blairs a jerk off

[TightRope]

At 1/21/07 01:48 PM, Cheekyvincent wrote: Yh america would win now BUT Russia and some other Asian countries would help China BUT U.K would help America coz Tony Blairs a jerk off

1. Russia would never support China. For funks sake man they are going to both be the only world super powers soon.
2. Who would win a war between US and China? You hardly give yourself any room to ask such a question. What front are we fighting on? If we are fighting on our beaches, nobody wins. If we are fighting in China, America withdraws eventually, If we are fighting in America, China eventually withdraws. Think about, how could america hold a nation of 1billion unless they completely obliterated their army? As well, how could china hold such an advanced nation as America where everyone has easy access to guns.
3. We already fought China in Korea and slaughtered them by the thousands as they attempted to run up hills and rush fortified positions. China's army is cheap and they are overzealous.

[Dalaran2007]

A war between USA and China is not likely to occur. The biggest American Capitalists have invested big in the Communist China, since labor there is cheap (thanks to Communism). If China stops cooperating with the USA, the USA will suffer heavily, and even collapse (economically).

[DarkNinjaofTechno]

My opinion...China now has the capability to render the US army blind by knocking out US spy satellites <A>source="http://www.time.com/time/world/art icle/0,8599,1580595,00.html"<A> using their new missiles. Also there has been a buildup of Chinese troops on the shore oppisite Taiwan. It is my opinion that the Chinese are planning on shooting down US satellites and then storming Taiwan while the US is blind. Personally, I don't think the Chinese should have even made any of those missiles. Even if they never do anything with them it still causes political problems. (if that link doesn't work, copy and paste the following URL: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599 ,1580595,00.html)

[Dr-Worm]

The Chinese have billions and billions and billions of people. But they won't attack America. Today, nuclear countries are still much too shaken up by the Cuban Missile Crisis to go into full-scale war with each other. Everyone knows it would cause nothing less than the end of the world.

[Kasualty]

We'd get our asses handed to us.

[YHWH]

The U.S. has logistical superiority, technological superiority, discipline/training superiority, and just about superiority in every aspect except numbers. In truth, if we were to call in the reserves and everyone in the Selective Service System, we would outnumber the People's Army by far.

[cellardoor6]

At 1/21/07 04:30 PM, DarkNinjaofTechno wrote: My opinion...China now has the capability to render the US army blind by knocking out US spy satellites <A>source="http://www.time.com/time/world/art icle/0,8599,1580595,00.html"<A>

Yes and the US has been able to shoot down satellites for 30 years.

And even then, China only made one single successful test of their anti-satellite missile. They don't have the thousands they would need to shoot down all the US military satellites that are in orbit.

Also, if the US wanted to, it could have shot down that missile in its boost phase. But the US didn't because China warned the US and other ICBM-wielding nations that they were only conducting a test.

Also, something important to understand: If China, without warning launched the thousands of missile it would need to actually blind the enormous US satellite network, then they would instantly receive a retaliatory strike. Hell that in itself might even trigger a nuclear war because there would be no way for other countries to distinguish if the missiles were topped with anti-satellite warheads or nuclear warheads.

Also there has been a buildup of Chinese troops on the shore oppisite Taiwan. It is my opinion that the Chinese are planning on shooting down US satellites and then storming Taiwan while the US is blind.

You're probably right about that. But you have to understand that all those troops on the opposite side of Taiwan are targeted by US equipment that is stationed in Taiwan.

The US given Taiwan our cutting-edge military equipment. Even though China has an advantage in numbers, they are quite behind in technology and would get raped in the ocean.

And even if China had the balls to launch a preemptive strike like that, this would bring the US into the war in full force and that would be the end of China (and/or the end of the world). And the US wouldn't have to invade China to destroy China's military, there would be no Vietnam style insurgency to deal with. It would be a perfect, almost ideal scenario for the US to use its full conventional military might without fear of political repercussion, if China did in fact trigger the conflict.

And the resulting ass-kickery that would take place would put China in its place. And if you consider the massive amount of superior naval, air, and ground forces the US has in the region, you would understand. China's attempt to invade Taiwan would result in thousands of casualties on the US side, but hundreds of thousands of casualties on the Chinese side, with probably their entire invasion force being destroyed.

But all of this, of course, relies on whether or not China decides to be even more foolish and belligerent and launch nukes or not. But this would be suicide for them.

Personally, I don't think the Chinese should have even made any of those missiles. Even if they never do anything with them it still causes political problems.

Well what they did was against agreements to keep weapons out of space. China's brazen act will only lead the US to put more emphasis on anti-ICBM systems, and to produce other countermeasures.

China did something incredibly foolish because it showed they don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves. But if anyone thinks that this really means anything significant militarily, it doesn't.

The US has had this technology for 30 years to shoot down satellites. The US also has the ability to shoot down missiles in their boost phase, especially the slow, primitive ones the Chinese have. So if China actually used this, it would mean their ass.

I'm sick of people saying "well China has more people" because that basically means jackshit in modern warfare. China's army consists of uneducated peasant conscripts with very primitive technology. Their air force is a fucking joke, Canada's air force is more powerful than China's (dead serious). And China's Navy is both small and primitive (lacking the ability to conduct blue-water operations).

[DJ-Jerakai]

Hmmmm, it would be a terrible thing.
And I do very much agree that China is preparing to invade, occupy and take control of Taiwan, then assimilate it into the Peopls Republic.

Will the US step in?

I say doubtful.

[cellardoor6]

At 1/21/07 10:13 PM, DJ-Jerakai wrote: Hmmmm, it would be a terrible thing.
And I do very much agree that China is preparing to invade, occupy and take control of Taiwan, then assimilate it into the Peopls Republic.

Will the US step in?

I say doubtful.

First of all, China won't invade Taiwan any time soon. China knows that they would not win right now that is why they are sneakily upgrading their military as fast as they can.

But if China did do this, then the US would step in and I'm absolutely certain.

The US-Taiwan alliance is as strong or stronger than the US alliance with the UK, France, Germany, Italy and so forth. The US has made an oath to protect Taiwan with the full force of the US, economically, militarily and politically.

This means if China invaded Taiwan, the US would cut China off from the international stock markets, international trade, and international financial institutes. Which would be the end of China's economy.

And to dispel another myth that people have, the US isn't that reliant on China. Only a fraction of the US economy revolves around China, while over half of China's economy relies directly on US and foreign investment, and a sizable portion of China's wealth is invested in the American financial system such as the International and World Bank.

The US has the power to completely destroy China's standing in the world, while China could only really cut off its cheap textiles and other low-grade exports to the US, which would hurt the US economy, but would DESTROY China's economy.

Therefore it wouldn't only mean a military engagement, it would result in a complete economic, political, and military assault by the US. This would isolate China, destroy their military, and put a virtual as well as physical blockade on their export market (which is the stape of their economy).

China's economy would grind to a halt, while the US and the rest of the western world would only have a brief nuisance of inflation.

[Imperator]

At 1/21/07 10:13 PM, DJ-Jerakai wrote: Hmmmm, it would be a terrible thing.
And I do very much agree that China is preparing to invade, occupy and take control of Taiwan, then assimilate it into the Peopls Republic.

Will the US step in?

I say doubtful.

I say you're very, very, very.....VERY wrong.

In fact, the only reason China hasn't ALREADY invaded Taiwan is because of OUR carriers parked right outside.....

That should tell you something about China's military against the US military.

[DJ-Jerakai]

Wrong about China wanting to take back Taiwan or wrong about the US stepping in?

[Imperator]

At 1/22/07 04:29 AM, DJ-Jerakai wrote: Wrong about China wanting to take back Taiwan or wrong about the US stepping in?

US stepping in. The fact that we have an aircraft carrier parked in Taiwanese waters shows that we already have "stepped in". It really is the only thing preventing China from takin over Taiwan.

[Camarohusky]

At 1/22/07 04:42 AM, Imperator wrote: US stepping in. The fact that we have an aircraft carrier parked in Taiwanese waters shows that we already have "stepped in". It really is the only thing preventing China from takin over Taiwan.

Well, the only military deterant. China, I'm sure, is well aware of the economic consequences of such an action. The US and Japan would probably cut ties completely, leaving China with no place to recieve high tech good, except from Taiwan, and I'm sure the Taiwanese would destroy their one technological park before the CHinese get there. I don't trust the Koreans. They've always only been out for their own good. if Chin a presents a good market for them they will take.

With those two losses China will a lot fo its selling power and pretty much the entire sector that provides them with any sort of technological power whatsoever. China, especially with its ever more capitalist economy knows better.

[Minty-Hippo]

IT would probally play out like the iraq and afghanistan "wars ". We would first intrude in a small section of there land, attack show the world what were capable of, then slowly as in the Iraw and Afghani wars, pander out and slowly begin to lose, as we are faced with conditions we are not conditioned for, nor good at facing. Also, Much like Japan, China has a large basis of pride and respect for the republic, so if we were to invade we would be outnumbered shearly by patriotism, not to mention the dizzying numbers and the required military service that every young boy has. It would pan out like the vietnam war totally overwealmed in circumstances we couldn't begin to comprehend. In china you dont hate the wars your country has,even if youd like to.

[unowned]

when the chinese need clean water the time will come

[DJ-Jerakai]

As to the China's access to technology, they are crossing the threshold of being able to support themselves technologically and develope they're own "killer technologies" to counter the effects of offensive military technologies without having to match the initial prowess.

This means a new degree of independence, internationally.

[altanese-mistress]

Mm, I can already feel the headaches of this argument......

To make it short: China has a program in which every man woman and child has basic military training. Even if we could defeat the over 300million soldiers of the People's Liberation Army, we'd have a billion more pissed off Chinese to contend with and a government at that point more than willing to pass out guns to fight the foreign devils. Not to mention that China's biggest military weakness is it's mobility. They can't attack us, but we would have to attack them, and coming to China takes away their weakness. Add in the sizable nuclear stockpiles of both countries, and theres Armageddon.

But this would NEVER happen; both countries realize how heavily they depend on each other's economy. Hell, I'd even say that America depends on China even more, though both countries will feel major economic woes.

[JakeHero]

At 1/22/07 05:34 PM, altanese-mistress wrote: To make it short: China has a program in which every man woman and child has basic military training.

Physical training doesn't help when you're 5 ft 5 inch in average height against military of roughly 6 ft 1 inch. Some of you may say this doesn't matter because melee isn't the focus of modern warefare and this is true, but it does have an affect on fatigue.

Even if we could defeat the over 300million soldiers of the People's Liberation Army, we'd have a billion more pissed off Chinese to contend with and a government at that point more than willing to pass out guns to fight the foreign devils.

I am in awe you actually consider numbers a factor in modern warefare. It doesn't matter how many people you have, infact, that becomes a liability due to the sacrifice in mobility. It wouldn't make a difference if you had a trillion soldiers, as long as the US has tactical bombers would completely decimate every soldier they have before they can even shoot down one of our boys.

Not to mention that China's biggest military weakness is it's mobility. They can't attack us, but we would have to attack them, and coming to China takes away their weakness.

not really. Our soldiers are trained to fight anywhere on every terrain. We learned this lesson in Vietnam. Once again you forget to factor in equipment and technology. China is decades behind us and could not possibly win any confrontation at the current time.

Add in the sizable nuclear stockpiles of both countries, and theres Armageddon.

Hopefully our anti-IBM program would be completed by that time. Though neither country would use nukes.

But this would NEVER happen; both countries realize how heavily they depend on each other's economy. Hell, I'd even say that America depends on China even more,

That's due to your partisanship.

though both countries will feel major economic woes.

It would be a minor problem for the US. We could just ship the sweatshops to other thirdworld shitholes.

[altanese-mistress]

At 1/22/07 06:03 PM, BanditByte wrote: Physical training doesn't help when you're 5 ft 5 inch in average height against military of roughly 6 ft 1 inch.

Dissmissive: Physical stature hardly matters in ANY type of warfare from any era. In fact, being smaller is better in modern warfare; it makes you less of a target.

I am in awe you actually consider numbers a factor in modern warefare. It doesn't matter how many people you have, infact, that becomes a liability due to the sacrifice in mobility.

Mocking Query: Do you honestly believe that being outnumbered 20 to 1 makes no difference?

as long as the US has tactical bombers would completely decimate every soldier they have before they can even shoot down one of our boys.

Sarcastic Answer: Oh yes, because China DOESN'T have a sizable force of MiGs; the greatest threat in most arial warfare that America has ever faced; or some of the most advanced SAM technology in the world.

China is decades behind us and could not possibly win any confrontation at the current time.

Shocked Statement: 'decades' ? More like a few years; China has been rapidly modernizing it's military technology, and will catch up with us before too long.

Hopefully our anti-IBM program would be completed by that time. Though neither country would use nukes.

Statement: If a war like this ever broke out? Hellz yeah; nukes would be flying everywhere.

It would be a minor problem for the US. We could just ship the sweatshops to other thirdworld shitholes.

Mocking Statement: Yes, because we can always pack up billions of dollars worth of industry and squeeze them tightly into smaller, less controlable countries. And lets totally forget about the massive amounts of debt they could call us in on.

[Demosthenez]

At 1/22/07 06:24 PM, altanese-mistress wrote: Shocked Statement: 'decades' ? More like a few years; China has been rapidly modernizing it's military technology, and will catch up with us before too long.

Two decades actually.

[Kings-Cant-Fall]

At 1/21/07 12:49 PM, zzzzd wrote: At the moment America would win, But could probably stop america invading and taking control.

In the not so distant future China may well win.

I don't think America would win shit right now. Especially not if Hilary is commander in chief...

[JudgeDredd]

At 1/21/07 03:44 PM, Dalaran2007 wrote: A war between USA and China is not likely to occur. The biggest American Capitalists have invested big in the Communist China, since labor there is cheap (thanks to Communism).

unmistakable irony !

China has about 1,400 million people, plus perhaps 10's of millions living around the world. That's a force to be reckoned with, and i'm not even talking war.

[cellardoor6]

At 1/22/07 06:24 PM, altanese-mistress wrote:

At 1/22/07 06:03 PM, BanditByte wrote: Physical training doesn't help when you're 5 ft 5 inch in average height against military of roughly 6 ft 1 inch.

Dissmissive: Physical stature hardly matters in ANY type of warfare from any era. In fact, being smaller is better in modern warfare; it makes you less of a target.

Shows how much you know. In modern warfare, in order for an infantry force to be effective they have to carry large loads of equipment, night vision, radio, satellite links, laser designators and so forth and the great strength and size advantage that US troops have allows each US infantry squad to have more and better equipment than a much larger Chinese force.

And the 'size that they make as a target' or whatever means nothing because the technology the US has allows us to engage enemies at a much farther range than they can with US. US forces would be engaging from too far away for Chinese to 'target' them.

If there ever was an infantry vs. infantry fight in US vs. China war, Chinese forces would be getting obliterated with long range precision artillery and missile barrages, air strikes, and so forth called in by superiorly equipped US forces. And even then, US forces have much better training, marksmanship, individual weapons, squad weapons and so forth than the Chinese do.

But in reality, an infantry vs. infantry fight would probably not happen because the US would use its massive advantage in Naval and Air power to bomb the shit out of the Chinese from long distances. China lacks the ability to react to this effectively because they are so far behind the US in technology. China can't even attempt to coordinate, such a largescale war with the inferior communications, logistics, equipment and so forth that they have.

Mocking Query: Do you honestly believe that being outnumbered 20 to 1 makes no difference?

There you go pulling random false facts out of your ass as always.

China outnumbers the US by about 4 to 1 in population. By size of military, the Chinese only have about 30% more military personnel. The US has 1.4 million active duty, 2.5 million including reserves. While Chinese have about 2 million active duty, 3.5 million including reserves.

And even if China did have a 20 to 1 advantage in numbers (which they dont), that would mean NOTHING in a modern war where the amount of troops does little in a fight against a superiorly trained, equipped, and situated enemy.

Think about it this way: Say there is 1 solider with a machine gun, facing 100 garbage men armed with BB guns. Who would win?

And that may be a crude analogy but the fact is that the US is SO much better equipped, SO much better trained, and has such a more efficient military, able to conduct very large scale operations with superior communications, situational awareness and so forth at longer ranges, for longer periods, and more effectively that to put it plainly, China would get raped.

as long as the US has tactical bombers would completely decimate every soldier they have before they can even shoot down one of our boys.

Sarcastic Answer: Oh yes, because China DOESN'T have a sizable force of MiGs; the greatest threat in most arial warfare that America has ever faced; or some of the most advanced SAM technology in the world.

China doesn't even have the latest MiGs, and China's airforce only has a few hundreds fighter planes that are in a state of disrepair and low readiness. And even then, they have MiGs that the US faced (and defeated repeatedly) during the Vietnam War.

And even if China acquired more modern Russian MiGs, it wouldn't matter because the US has tested US fighters against MiGs and US fighters are entirely superior. For example, India is a fairly close US ally, yet India receives the latest Russian fighter jets. This allows the US to test our fighters against Russian fighters, and tests have shown that even the LATEST Russian aircraft are inferior when facing even 30 year old American jets because American radar and weapons are SO much superior.

Shocked Statement: 'decades' ? More like a few years; China has been rapidly modernizing it's military technology, and will catch up with us before too long.

Read over the last few posts. China is 20 years behind the US according to studies.

Hopefully our anti-IBM program would be completed by that time. Though neither country would use nukes.

Statement: If a war like this ever broke out? Hellz yeah; nukes would be flying everywhere.

You don't know what you're talking about. First of all, China only has 20 nuclear-tipped ICBMs that can reach the US (some of these would be shot down by US anti-missile defense systems), while the US has thousands of missiles that could easily obliterate China. So China would definitely not initiate a nuclear war because though they could kill millions of Americans, it would mean the destruction of their entire country.

Now, neither the US or China would be the first to US nuclear weapons in a conventional war. Neither would risk ending the world itself by a nuclear war over a military engagement over Taiwan.

Mocking Statement: Yes, because we can always pack up billions of dollars worth of industry and squeeze them tightly into smaller, less controlable countries. And lets totally forget about the massive amounts of debt they could call us in on.

You just get dumber and dumber as you go. China can't 'call us in' on our debt. It doesn't work that way, they BOUGHT our debt by purchasing our reserves to stabilize their own economy by leaning on the US economy for support. We don't owe China any money to be paid back.

China's economy relies heavily on trade with the US, much more so than the US relies on China (a higher portion of the US economy revolves around Mexico). China also relies on its access to US-controlled financial and market institution that are the vehicle behind China's economy. China also relies heavily on imports and exports by sea, and the US could create a blockade around China as well as cutting them off from international banks and stock markets.

Therefore China's economy would crumble, and the US economy would weaken momentarily but remain intact.

[Dealy-rizazamatizazz]

If my memory serves me, which it rarely does. We are still the least in debt country, besides China would attack others first before us I think, and any giant corporation ending in Mart is un-American, they sell reverse engineered expensive American product, stolen by China. Hell, if you get an American flag there, made in China or Japan.

[DJ-Jerakai]

At 1/23/07 09:40 AM, Hammer-and-Sickle wrote: US will never attack China. If it does the world economy would hit rock bottom. And, if US is stupid enought to do that, N Korea and Russia would feel threaten and directly or indirectly support China

North Korea and China have a VERY shakey relationship. It is doubtful North Korea would back China.

As to Russia, they would most certainly back America.
Perhaps you haven't heard of something called "The Sino-Soviet Split".

Basically, it was Russia (under the command of Kruschev, Stalin's successor) turning away from Chairman Mao and Communist China, so as they could show better relations towards the US.

[goodfella13]

ok well first of all hekler&koch (HK) does not make the ak47. now wjile the ak 47 is a very reliable firearm it is weak compared to an HK do your research before posting stuff that makes you look retarted and secondly america woukd win hands down I mean we already defeated the worlds strongest millitary force (england) so the chinese would be nothing