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At 6/30/07 06:44 PM, The-JefFlet wrote: o and just to further prove christianity...

You can't prove any religion, including your own.

even if you dont believe the bible is the holy word of God, you still have to recognize it was written thousands of years ago.
well read the books Daniel, John, and Revelation. it describes in detail what has been going on in the world in the last couple centurys.

No it really doesn't. Many of the passages are taken out of the context in which they where written. They don't foretell the future, and if they did you'd have a serious problem with free will.

it describes the formation of the UN, the rebirth of israel, and even the fact that blaire is gonna be a representative of the UN.

No, it dose mention that Israel will get it's own country or kingdom again, yes. But it's not stated in any way shape or form to describe what has transpired or how it happened.

yep all that is in the bible.

No it's not. Unless your willing to try and back them up.

o and another thing i think is interesting, (not part of this argument,) in Genesis God refers to earth as "great sphere". it was just translated into "Earth". i just thought that was interesting because most ancient philosophers thought the world was flat.

No, most ancient philosophers, especially the Greek knew the earth was round. Several even calculated it to about 15% of it's actual circumference. Out of curiosity what is the actual passage?

At 6/30/07 06:46 PM, The-JefFlet wrote:

At 6/30/07 06:39 PM, EndGameOmega wrote: They formed naturally, we can even see them form naturally today. While long DNA strands are unstable in the physical environment (i.e. Out side of any kind of protective system), short ones aren't. The same thing goes for protein, and lipids. They're naturally forming biochemicals, and they aren't very complex ether.

naturally?? what does that mean? they formed out of absolute nothingness??

Of course not, they formed from the sounding chemicals in there environment. What do you think the word naturally means, any way? Every chemical needed to form life would have existed in some form and quantity on primordial earth. The chemicals I'm talking about aren't very complex or hard to produce.

At 6/30/07 06:44 PM, The-JefFlet wrote: o and just to further prove christianity...
even if you dont believe the bible is the holy word of God, you still have to recognize it was written thousands of years ago.
well read the books Daniel, John, and Revelation. it describes in detail what has been going on in the world in the last couple centurys.
it describes the formation of the UN, the rebirth of israel, and even the fact that blaire is gonna be a representative of the UN.
yep all that is in the bible.

o and another thing i think is interesting, (not part of this argument,) in Genesis God refers to earth as "great sphere". it was just translated into "Earth". i just thought that was interesting because most ancient philosophers thought the world was flat.

"Prophecy " is wonderful in that I can twist the vague words of it into whatever I wish them to mean. On the topic of the bible...why was God trying so very hard to make himself known to be "the one"? Was he trying beat out other gods back then? If a grocery list that was over twelve-thousand years old were to be discovered...would that be even more holy than those of a storybook (which has some nice morals..like don't be an ass to others if you don't wanna get the same)? If you can read a "Holy Book" and read it as just that...a book, then you may find yourself with a better overall view of humanity and realize that many religions are to try and make people get along.

Unfortunately, due to politics using the spirituality of the people as a tool, it is more of an instrument of fear and hatred used to cow the masses with promises of torture after death or a wonderful life (again..only once the person is dead and done exactly what their state demands.)

At 6/30/07 07:12 PM, EndGameOmega wrote: No it really doesn't. Many of the passages are taken out of the context in which they where written. They don't foretell the future, and if they did you'd have a serious problem with free will.

no it doesnt affect your will at all. if i say "hey guys watch john is gonna fall down" that doesnt affect what happens to john.

No it's not. Unless your willing to try and back them up.

well i actually dont have my bible with me but i will tell you tomorrow if you would like.

At 6/30/07 06:39 PM, EndGameOmega wrote:

:Of course not, they formed from the sounding chemicals in there environment. What do you think the word naturally means, any way? Every chemical needed to form life would have existed in some form and quantity on primordial earth. The chemicals I'm talking about aren't very complex or hard to produce.

ok well where did the chemicals come from?

At 6/30/07 07:29 PM, The-JefFlet wrote:

At 6/30/07 07:12 PM, EndGameOmega wrote: No it really doesn't. Many of the passages are taken out of the context in which they where written. They don't foretell the future, and if they did you'd have a serious problem with free will.

no it doesnt affect your will at all. if i say "hey guys watch john is gonna fall down" that doesnt affect what happens to john.

But it dose. See if god knew that all these things where going to happen, if god effectively knows everything then how can there be freewill? If god knows what I'm going to do tomorrow then that means it's already been determined, therefor I have no freewill.

No it's not. Unless your willing to try and back them up.

well i actually dont have my bible with me but i will tell you tomorrow if you would like.

Sounds good.

At 6/30/07 06:39 PM, EndGameOmega wrote:

Of course not, they formed from the sounding chemicals in there environment. What do you think the word naturally means, any way? Every chemical needed to form life would have existed in some form and quantity on primordial earth. The chemicals I'm talking about aren't very complex or hard to produce.

ok well where did the chemicals come from?

Ok, I see what your trying to do. Your trying to get me to keep pushing further and further back in time, till there comes a point where I say I don't know. That time is around 10^-42 seconds. I don't know what physically happened then.

Dose that satisfy you? Because it shouldn't. Finding points where I don't know, doesn't place god in those points, all it dose is show the current limit of our capabilities, which will be over turned eventuality. The effect is the place for your god gets smaller and smaller, and cause people with similar views to your own to abandon their faith, and their god when they see there faith become equally as small. It's a self defeating philosophy, which doesn't answer any question, and only brings forth more problems.

But to answer your question, they came from the gaseous nebula our star system came from. Which it self came from a mega star's (~10M x sun's mass) nova. Which came form the matter formed after the inflation period of the universe (big bang). Which came from the extremely energy dense space which our current theories can't explain, as it requires a unification of the four fundamental forces. However if evidence for string theory is found this will not be the case and everything from T=0 on will be know (from a physics stand point at lest). The time before T=0 will also be know, but to a lesser degree. Dose that answer your question to a satisfactory degree?

I still say I wanna see what the argument would be to the idea that the Universe had no beginning and that it simply *existed*, as that would rule out a Creator.

At 6/30/07 07:51 PM, EndGameOmega wrote:

At 6/30/07 07:29 PM, The-JefFlet wrote:

At 6/30/07 07:12 PM, EndGameOmega wrote: No it really doesn't. Many of the passages are taken out of the context in which they where written. They don't foretell the future, and if they did you'd have a serious problem with free will.

no it doesnt affect your will at all. if i say "hey guys watch john is gonna fall down" that doesnt affect what happens to john.

But it dose. See if god knew that all these things where going to happen, if god effectively knows everything then how can there be freewill? If god knows what I'm going to do tomorrow then that means it's already been determined, therefor I have no freewill.

by no means! God knows what youre gonna go before you do it because to God there is no time. its a very difficult concept to grasp. but hes watching it as if he were looking at a movie film reel.

At 6/30/07 06:39 PM, EndGameOmega wrote:

Of course not, they formed from the sounding chemicals in there environment. What do you think the word naturally means, any way? Every chemical needed to form life would have existed in some form and quantity on primordial earth. The chemicals I'm talking about aren't very complex or hard to produce.

ok well where did the chemicals come from?

Ok, I see what your trying to do. Your trying to get me to keep pushing further and further back in time, till there comes a point where I say I don't know. That time is around 10^-42 seconds. I don't know what physically happened then.

Dose that satisfy you? Because it shouldn't. Finding points where I don't know, doesn't place god in those points, all it dose is show the current limit of our capabilities, which will be over turned eventuality. The effect is the place for your god gets smaller and smaller, and cause people with similar views to your own to abandon their faith, and their god when they see there faith become equally as small. It's a self defeating philosophy, which doesn't answer any question, and only brings forth more problems.

But to answer your question, they came from the gaseous nebula our star system came from. Which it self came from a mega star's (~10M x sun's mass) nova. Which came form the matter formed after the inflation period of the universe (big bang). Which came from the extremely energy dense space which our current theories can't explain, as it requires a unification of the four fundamental forces. However if evidence for string theory is found this will not be the case and everything from T=0 on will be know (from a physics stand point at lest). The time before T=0 will also be know, but to a lesser degree. Dose that answer your question to a satisfactory degree?

i was just showing you that you cannot say where any of it came from be cause it never happened.
so now you say all of it came from a nova or big bang but stars dont just appear. they have to be formed out of gas. gas cant just appear because its composed of molecules and cant just pop out of nothing. molecules cannot just appear.
surely someone who knows as much as you about science knows the law of conservation of mass.

Nobody ever wants to go into detail about what if there was no creation. :<

...I personally find that concept quite interesting.

Also...where did a God come from? How did he\she\it put things into the Universe since it couldn't have been a magic "poof" as Mysticism was tossed out ages ago.

At 6/30/07 08:08 PM, Orion-Hartz-1 wrote:

Also...where did a God come from? How did he\she\it put things into the Universe since it couldn't have been a magic "poof" as Mysticism was tossed out ages ago.

Ok. Your number 1 problem is assuming there is a God and that he cannot go "poof".

Either God doesn't exist and neither does "poof". Or God exists and he can "poof".

One or the other.

At 6/30/07 08:10 PM, Memorize wrote:

At 6/30/07 08:08 PM, Orion-Hartz-1 wrote:

Also...where did a God come from? How did he\she\it put things into the Universe since it couldn't have been a magic "poof" as Mysticism was tossed out ages ago.

Ok. Your number 1 problem is assuming there is a God and that he cannot go "poof".

Either God doesn't exist and neither does "poof". Or God exists and he can "poof".

One or the other.

I was actually going with the poster's assumption that there was a god for that little question there. If you look to the top of the page, you may notice other posts that I've been making which suggest ideas\points from both sides, with a bias towards Atheism.

Thanks to lack of an edit button I have to say this...I've been awake for the past 49 hours so I apologize if I misread a point you're making or pointing out.

PS...if there's actually an edit button for posts, would someone be so kind as to point it out to me? Thanks in advance.

At 6/30/07 08:03 PM, The-JefFlet wrote:

At 6/30/07 07:51 PM, EndGameOmega wrote: But it dose. See if god knew that all these things where going to happen, if god effectively knows everything then how can there be freewill? If god knows what I'm going to do tomorrow then that means it's already been determined, therefor I have no freewill.

by no means! God knows what youre gonna go before you do it because to God there is no time. its a very difficult concept to grasp. but hes watching it as if he were looking at a movie film reel.

Which means that every thing is predetermined. Since there is an outside observer (god) how is capable of seeing everything that has been and will implies that time is ridged. There can be no movement in something which is set. It's a problem of geometry, if something has a defined shape, then it is that shape. Like wise since god can see what the future is, it already is that, even if we can't see it our self. This leaves no room for freewill.

Ok, I see what your trying to do. Your trying to get me to keep pushing further and further back in time, till there comes a point where I say I don't know. That time is around 10^-42 seconds. I don't know what physically happened then.

Dose that satisfy you? Because it shouldn't. Finding points where I don't know, doesn't place god in those points, all it dose is show the current limit of our capabilities, which will be over turned eventuality. The effect is the place for your god gets smaller and smaller, and cause people with similar views to your own to abandon their faith, and their god when they see there faith become equally as small. It's a self defeating philosophy, which doesn't answer any question, and only brings forth more problems.

But to answer your question, they came from the gaseous nebula our star system came from. Which it self came from a mega star's (~10M x sun's mass) nova. Which came form the matter formed after the inflation period of the universe (big bang). Which came from the extremely energy dense space which our current theories can't explain, as it requires a unification of the four fundamental forces. However if evidence for string theory is found this will not be the case and everything from T=0 on will be know (from a physics stand point at lest). The time before T=0 will also be know, but to a lesser degree. Dose that answer your question to a satisfactory degree?

i was just showing you that you cannot say where any of it came from be cause it never happened.

But you haven't shown me that in any way shape or form, All you've done is shown the limits of what I can explain, namely up to something around T=10^-37 s.

There is mountains of evidence showing the universe has evolved from a point like state to what we see today. There is no argument in the field of astronomy over the age of the universe (at lest not with in an order magnitude or more), which is 13.7 ± .2 Gy. To believe other wise is to ignore everything that has been discovered in the field of astrophysics since it's formation. This includes a great deal of QFT, and the resulting nuclear physics and applications that accompany it.

so now you say all of it came from a nova or big bang but stars dont just appear. they have to be formed out of gas. gas cant just appear because its composed of molecules and cant just pop out of nothing. molecules cannot just appear.

The chemicals in our system came from a nova, the nova came from the inflation period or as you call it “big bang”. There is evidence for this, things like the
Cosmic Microwave Backround , and Red Shift. You also have the stars themselves to look at, some of which we are seeing as they where billions of years in the past.

surely someone who knows as much as you about science knows the law of conservation of mass.

I also know it can be violated under small time steps. QM phenomena don't have to obey the laws of conservation for any single point, though in a many body system you do see conservation, primarily because of the symmetry between the non conservation, namely addition is as likely as subtraction, so they balance out. However since I don't have a working theory for the first plank second of the universe I can't be sure this symmetry holds. If it doesn't it could explain where the matter and energy came from. But again I don't know, I only have evidence up to about T=10^-36 s.

You also have the simple possibility that they may never have been created. We don't know what happened at the very start of the universe or before it, so it's possible, likely even that everything has always existed in some form.

Ironic how all this talk of science doesn't prove God's existance one way or the other.

Absolutely fascinating!

At 6/30/07 07:11 PM, Orion-Hartz-1 wrote:

However...a Theist has as much proof that a deity exists as an Atheist has proof that one does not exist. That is to say, they both have nothing, but the Theist is often compelled to give proof of the existence.

That being said, you need Freedom From Religion to go alongside Freedom Of Religion before progress can be made.

Sounds like what I said earlier except without the hypothetical question of what if there was no big bang and what would it's impact be.

At 6/30/07 08:42 PM, Memorize wrote: Ironic how all this talk of science doesn't prove God's existance one way or the other.

Absolutely fascinating!

Your right it doesn't, but then that's not what I'm arguing. What my argument has done is discount cretin possibilities and conceptions, along with putting somethings into perspective.

At 6/30/07 08:39 PM, EndGameOmega wrote: Which means that every thing is predetermined. Since there is an outside observer (god) how is capable of seeing everything that has been and will implies that time is ridged. There can be no movement in something which is set. It's a problem of geometry, if something has a defined shape, then it is that shape. Like wise since god can see what the future is, it already is that, even if we can't see it our self. This leaves no room for freewill.

but you are the creator of the ridged shape!

But you haven't shown me that in any way shape or form, All you've done is shown the limits of what I can explain, namely up to something around T=10^-37 s.

There is mountains of evidence showing the universe has evolved from a point like state to what we see today. There is no argument in the field of astronomy over the age of the universe (at lest not with in an order magnitude or more), which is 13.7 ± .2 Gy. To believe other wise is to ignore everything that has been discovered in the field of astrophysics since it's formation. This includes a great deal of QFT, and the resulting nuclear physics and applications that accompany it.

there is zero evidence. and please dont even try to say that its because everything is moving apart or because the speed of the earth rotating. both of those things are addressed in the bible.

I also know it can be violated under small time steps. QM phenomena don't have to obey the laws of conservation for any single point, though in a many body system you do see conservation, primarily because of the symmetry between the non conservation, namely addition is as likely as subtraction, so they balance out. However since I don't have a working theory for the first plank second of the universe I can't be sure this symmetry holds. If it doesn't it could explain where the matter and energy came from. But again I don't know, I only have evidence up to about T=10^-36 s.

no even quantum mechanics follow the law of conservation of mass. granted, they can bypass the law of conservation of energy.

You also have the simple possibility that they may never have been created. We don't know what happened at the very start of the universe or before it, so it's possible, likely even that everything has always existed in some form.

to me this makes the most since of any scientific theory.
but still no proof.

At 6/30/07 08:42 PM, Memorize wrote: Ironic how all this talk of science doesn't prove God's existance one way or the other.

Absolutely fascinating!

well it doesnt prove anything else either.
its simply intelligent people discussing what could be truth.
therefore you might wanna leave.
haha

Notice in science, many things are THEORIES. That means..Maybe.
Read the bible again, Adam and Eve DID NOT populate the world. They had 2 sons, and the one was killed by his brother. God banished him and the surviving brother said "The others will kill me out there" which states, Others were around, and Adam and Eve are not our Great great....Grandparents.
Some science is believable. But I don't think our world has been around for as long as science says. I mean, over the years, I think our world would be a rotting pile of shit, you know. But I have a question for you man.
If you don't believe in God, then you don't go to heaven right. The eternal life thing. Wouldn't you rather go to heaven and never die, rather than just laying in the ground? I mean, at least believe something.
I'll never say science is wrong, but I will say, the Bible is right, in my opinion, of course.

At 7/1/07 12:52 AM, Everlasting-Elements wrote: Notice in science, many things are THEORIES. That means..Maybe.

no it doesn't. people, stop using the word theory until you know the meaning with regards to science.

Dude. Science passes many test. That's why there is the 'BIG BANG THEORY.'
It passed the test, but was NOT proven, therefore, it's only a possibility!

At 7/1/07 12:52 AM, Everlasting-Elements wrote: Notice in science, many things are THEORIES. That means..Maybe.
Read the bible again, Adam and Eve DID NOT populate the world. They had 2 sons, and the one was killed by his brother. God banished him and the surviving brother said "The others will kill me out there" which states, Others were around, and Adam and Eve are not our Great great....Grandparents.
Some science is believable. But I don't think our world has been around for as long as science says. I mean, over the years, I think our world would be a rotting pile of shit, you know. But I have a question for you man.

?? How would our world be a rotting pile of shit? There's absolutely no evidence to back up that claim. But continue.

If you don't believe in God, then you don't go to heaven right. The eternal life thing. Wouldn't you rather go to heaven and never die, rather than just laying in the ground? I mean, at least believe something.

Okay, and how do you know that? Because it says so in a book? And how do you know that book is right? Oh because God says so? Oh, and how do you know that's what God says? Because it says so in a book? And how do you know that book is right? Oh because God says so? Oh, and how do you know that's what God says? Because it says so in a.... and on and on and on and on.... That's a logical fallacy. (It's a mistake in logic.)

The question "Wouldn't you rather go to heaven..." assumes that we believe in your religion. If we don't believe in your religion it has no standing.

I'll never say science is wrong, but I will say, the Bible is right, in my opinion, of course.

And it's within your rights to believe that, just as it's in my rights to believe in what has more ratinonal reasoning behind it. :) But I guess we've got different opinions on what that is.

and is that why the fact that the planets revolve around the sun is "still" a theory?

At 7/1/07 12:59 AM, Everlasting-Elements wrote: Dude. Science passes many test. That's why there is the 'BIG BANG THEORY.'
It passed the test, but was NOT proven, therefore, it's only a possibility!

And yet it has actual evidence/rational reasoning behind it. Sure, it's only a possibility, but it's a possibility with scientific rationality behind it. Where is that scientific rationality in "God just made it all, lol." What if God made the Big Bang happen? Is that not a possibility too? Is there any more evidence behind "God just made it all, lol" than "The big bang happened, and it might have been caused by God."

At 6/30/07 10:44 PM, The-JefFlet wrote:

At 6/30/07 08:39 PM, EndGameOmega wrote: Which means that every thing is predetermined. Since there is an outside observer (god) how is capable of seeing everything that has been and will implies that time is ridged. There can be no movement in something which is set. It's a problem of geometry, if something has a defined shape, then it is that shape. Like wise since god can see what the future is, it already is that, even if we can't see it our self. This leaves no room for freewill.

but you are the creator of the ridged shape!

Irrelevant, the creator of the shape doesn't matter. It's the predefined shape of the object (namely it's past and future) which nullifies the concept of freewill. If something knows what will happen that by all accounts what will happen is determined. You can't get out of this.

But you haven't shown me that in any way shape or form, All you've done is shown the limits of what I can explain, namely up to something around T=10^-37 s.

There is mountains of evidence showing the universe has evolved from a point like state to what we see today. There is no argument in the field of astronomy over the age of the universe (at lest not with in an order magnitude or more), which is 13.7 ± .2 Gy. To believe other wise is to ignore everything that has been discovered in the field of astrophysics since it's formation. This includes a great deal of QFT, and the resulting nuclear physics and applications that accompany it.

there is zero evidence. and please dont even try to say that its because everything is moving apart or because the speed of the earth rotating. both of those things are addressed in the bible.

Weather they are addressed in the bible is irrelevant, though I'm curious what dose earth rotation have to do with the big bang, and the age of the universe? Anyway unless your argument is based on evidence and fact you can't refute what we see, though please feel free to bring forth your argument I'm curious as to how you think it's possible to have a young universe given the CMB, and redshift. The fact remains the universe has the aperince of being somewhere around 13.7 Gy old. Oh, and don't forget about the stars, many of them are seen as they where billions of years ago, and the measurements take from correspond almost perfectly (well with in experimental measure) to what would be expected.

I also know it can be violated under small time steps. QM phenomena don't have to obey the laws of conservation for any single point, though in a many body system you do see conservation, primarily because of the symmetry between the non conservation, namely addition is as likely as subtraction, so they balance out. However since I don't have a working theory for the first plank second of the universe I can't be sure this symmetry holds. If it doesn't it could explain where the matter and energy came from. But again I don't know, I only have evidence up to about T=10^-36 s.

no even quantum mechanics follow the law of conservation of mass. granted, they can bypass the law of conservation of energy.

Energy is mass, E=mc^2. Both can be violated. If they couldn't then you wouldn't have, well anything you see. Non conservation, and the resulting virtual particle fields is required to allow things to change energy states, at lest at the atomic and subatomic levels.

You also have the simple possibility that they may never have been created. We don't know what happened at the very start of the universe or before it, so it's possible, likely even that everything has always existed in some form.

to me this makes the most since of any scientific theory.
but still no proof.

Proof is something for mathematicians and philosophers, not scientist. There is however a significant amount of evidence for the nature of the universe. Like I said there are millions of stars out there, many older then our own sun.

If your so cretin the age of the universe and the theory of it's formation are wrong present your evidence.

I don't have a religion, I just believe in God, and Jesus, so rules out Jewish. ^^
I just saying that wouldn't the idea of still living after death, be nice? Just think you? I'm sorry for saying some of the stuff, trying to persuade you guys. Sorry.
So let me say something. The whole Planets around the sun shit. I don't believe in other planets, because I just think it's the government feeding us some more shit. I watch the 1969 lunar landing, and there were no stars. We can't see the stars on the earth because the little shield thing, ozone, i think, blocks a lot out, plus the lights. So on the moon, where is like.. a dead ball of rock and sand, why do you see no stars. I mean...even in recent landings, there are no stars. So I don't think we've been to the moon, nor in space. It's just me. I don't want to get off topic with that.
I believe in what The Bible says man. We came to America and they mostly worshipped god, cept that ben frank guy, he was a satanist, little pedophile guy that liked to play with women and do illegal acts of oral sex! I mean, it's cool what you believe.
Possibility that god did the big bang? Sure man. It's what you think. I don't think it, but it's all chill. Let's do a topic on AREA 51 now XD

At 7/1/07 01:05 AM, SyntheticTacos wrote: And yet it has actual evidence/rational reasoning behind it. Sure, it's only a possibility, but it's a possibility with scientific rationality behind it.

this isn't about proving or disproving God, this is attempting to explain to people that a theory is no just a guess or a possibility someone pulled out of their fucking ass.
fucking ignorant people "lolzz!! its just a thery!11".

At 7/1/07 01:15 AM, Everlasting-Elements wrote: I don't have a religion, I just believe in God, and Jesus, so rules out Jewish. ^^

Jews believe in Jesus; they just don't think he was their Messiah.

I just saying that wouldn't the idea of still living after death, be nice? Just think you? I'm sorry for saying some of the stuff, trying to persuade you guys. Sorry.

Nah, it's fine. Life after death doesn't sound half bad- but just cause it's something cool doesn't mean it's true. The idea of Santa Claus is pretty awesome but that doesn't mean it was true. Not to be derisive, I'm just saying "wow that would be great" doesn't exactly verify that something's true. :)

So let me say something. The whole Planets around the sun shit. I don't believe in other planets, because I just think it's the government feeding us some more shit. I watch the 1969 lunar landing, and there were no stars. We can't see the stars on the earth because the little shield thing, ozone, i think, blocks a lot out, plus the lights. So on the moon, where is like.. a dead ball of rock and sand, why do you see no stars. I mean...even in recent landings, there are no stars. So I don't think we've been to the moon, nor in space. It's just me. I don't want to get off topic with that.

No stars were in the photos? The sun was shining. Cameras were set to daylight exposure. Here's a recent topic showing humans have been to outer space. Regardless of the first moon landing, humans have been to outer space.

I believe in what The Bible says man. We came to America and they mostly worshipped god, cept that ben frank guy, he was a satanist, little pedophile guy that liked to play with women and do illegal acts of oral sex! I mean, it's cool what you believe.

?? Ben Franklin wasn't a satanist, he was a Deist; which means he did believe in God, he just believe he doesn't take an active part in the going-ons of the day. As for "illegal acts of oral sex", that's his business, not ours. :) And I have never heard he was a pedophile before, I'd like to see a source on that one. I don't think Ben was like that. o_O

:: Possibility that god did the big bang? Sure man. It's what you think. I don't think it, but it's all chill. Let's do a topic on AREA 51 now XD

There's nothing in the bible that says he didn't. :) And that's what you go by right? We've all got our own opinions. A topic on Area 51 sounds cool, but I bet someone's done that already; you might wanna do a search on the topic and just post in one of those so it can be revived again.

By the way, I just found your audio stuff, pretty interesting stuff. Sorry to be offtopic, though, I'll PM ya about it.

But I'd like to know what makes you so sure the bible says the big bang didn't happen, and if it did, why you regard it as being so infallible.

Years of faith, I just...won't change. SANTA IS REAL YOU BIG MEANY XD
I was watching a thing on tv, it said ben franklin had a brothel like thing and him and some others went to get some poon ^^ I dunno if it's true or not, but they say he wanted america so bad, because freedom of religion? Just a thing.
I think that's my 4th post for the 30 minutes, so...sorry if I stop talking for a bit... I'm sure you're happy I shut up, anyways XD

At 7/1/07 01:37 AM, SyntheticTacos wrote:

?? Ben Franklin wasn't a satanist, he was a Deist; which means he did believe in God, he just believe he doesn't take an active part in the going-ons of the day. As for "illegal acts of oral sex", that's his business, not ours. :) And I have never heard he was a pedophile before, I'd like to see a source on that one. I don't think Ben was like that. o_O

He wasn't. He was a lady's man. Problem though was that... he kept striking out as the women usually considered him as a father figure.

I'm telling you. He liked Oral sex. Oral was illegal. Nice to know a leader who broke the law in an unconstitutional way XD He was a satanist, and he wanted our Eagle to be a fucking Turkey. So yes, he was a satanist, and AMERICA was won by SATAN, case closed.... Fuck.... I'm in hell, basically...

illegal activities and turkeys make you a satanist?