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At 7/16/08 12:49 PM, SolInvictus wrote:

At 7/16/08 03:18 AM, Malignant624 wrote: Ah dude your the fucking ignorent shit head. i did a whole assignment on friggin soddom and gohmorrah

you know it doesn't really count as a successful assignment if you fail.

Oh and i scored 94% on that assignment you insecure shit bag

At 7/16/08 10:24 PM, Malignant624 wrote:

Oh and i scored 94% on that assignment you insecure shit bag

Hahahaha! I love it!! I'm gonna enjoy it immensely when Sol responds.

Just remember fellas, he's on YOUR side!!!

I say we just pin this one up against Dre-Man or Shaggy and let them do all the arguing for us. If nothing else, it'll be entertaining. :)

At 7/16/08 03:28 PM, Earfetish wrote:
In that only one represents real life?

No. They represent the same thing. Religion is abstracted, obviously. And science is straight-forward, a portrait.

You should really lay off the biased tones, it looks bad on you.

I apologize, biased tone is the wrong word.

But you're writing my points off, when they're fairly obvious ones, I think, that could take this conversation to more meaningful places, if we look at both sections in depth.

At 7/16/08 05:22 PM, Imperator wrote: someone give me a fucking clue.

Oh my God now you're arguing with me about Caesar?

You have absolutely zero reading comprehension skills. How did they let you in college?
I can't even believe this. Are you kidding me? Did you truly not even understand what that post was about?

This is ridiculous.

At 7/17/08 01:20 AM, poxpower wrote:
This is ridiculous.

Welcome to how I feel about my posts in most topics.

At 7/17/08 01:20 AM, poxpower wrote:

At 7/16/08 05:22 PM, Imperator wrote: someone give me a fucking clue.

Oh my God now you're arguing with me about Caesar?

Your God? your atheist, 'God and damn' for you should be 'gosh and darn'

You have absolutely zero reading comprehension skills. How did they let you in college?
I can't even believe this. Are you kidding me? Did you truly not even understand what that post was about?

Something about showing schindler's list to kindergartners right? I wasnt paying attention.

This is ridiculous.

This is madness.

Ceaser ended the egyption civil war, and appearently married the hottest inbred slut of the ancient world.

(little known facts, Cleopatra was greek, but the greek rulers cuntinued the egyption customs, including incestuis marriages of royalty, see graph)

At 7/17/08 06:39 AM, Zoraxe7 wrote: Your God? your atheist, 'God and damn' for you should be 'gosh and darn'

So what? It's an expression. Surely you're the one who can't say 'God and damn' because that would be blasphemous.

At 7/16/08 10:23 PM, Malignant624 wrote: Oh dude you are so fucked. You say you live in this world yet you know nothing of the true nature of it.

...umm, ok then. that had nothing do do with anything, but all right.

you cling to a sad belief in a thing sitting in the sky that will reward you over everyone else when your time comes.

when did pointing out that you know jack shit about something you claim to know inside out become an expression of faith?

Stuck up much?

generally, yes, but even more so now that you've shown how big an idiot you are.

Ok so maybe your not one of those types of catholics but you still cling to the sad belief of the insecure. There are elements of catholism that make sense to me. The love Jesus supposedly taught is just the guide to good human living and has been preached a thousand times over before and after the 'Messiah' ( Fat lot of good he did with catholics like you wandering around) Do you even no what catholic means dickhead. Do you know of the crimes the Church commited in the crusades? Do you know of the hurt catholism has done to the world. The didn't recognise that the world was round until the fricking 90's they struck Da Vinci down, they called his ideas about chalestrol and fat ridiculous think about how much better human lives would've been if the church listend to Gallileo and Da Vinci in the middle ages??????? how much damage was done to the progress of the world by those leaders. The repeated examples of sexual abuse by preists of the Church sadden me these are the guys you passed the tests of 'God' this omnipresent guy you you all believe in.

Religons that believe in an omnipresent being have screwed up the world.

what the hell did that have to do with Sodom and Gomorrah? but bravo, you've shown yourself to be another self-righteous, cockwad atheist, like so many on this site. well done, you're part of a ridiculously non-exclusive club!

p.s. i'm an atheist, dip shit.

At 7/16/08 10:37 PM, JackPhantasm wrote:

At 7/16/08 03:28 PM, Earfetish wrote:
In that only one represents real life?

No. They represent the same thing. Religion is abstracted, obviously. And science is straight-forward, a portrait.

You should really lay off the biased tones, it looks bad on you.

You really need to focus on being less vague. How is the Bible an abstract look at the Earth or how is it even a valid way of looking at the world? It's certainly important to consider religion when considering the Human condition but I fail to see how it's a representation of anything real at all. Y'know, except for the Human condition.

Dammit.

Shaggy deleted his 'Mountain dew' video with him in it and now only has bullshit VenomfangX vidsd as his videos.

At 7/17/08 05:27 PM, SadisticMonkey wrote: Dammit.

Shaggy deleted his 'Mountain dew' video with him in it and now only has bullshit VenomfangX vidsd as his videos.

What a surprise, a dishonest creationist!
I wish prayer actually worked so I could pray an asteroid on his house.

At 7/16/08 01:18 AM, poxpower wrote:

when in reality it says not to wage war on civilians.

I saw / read something about it. Like a few times it said the prophet Mohammad said war should be fought with soldiers not civilians. or something similar to that. Sadly, I don't own a copy of the Koran so I couldn't point out where.

No, it's a fact by any standards of anything anyone considers a fact.

No, it's a fact that it's not a fact by any standards of anything any reasonable person considers a fact.

what did you do to my reply anyways? You like fused another reply in there somehow.

Lol, yeah.

Anyways go read the orignal reply again because you just said that religions make perfect sense.

Nope. If you go back a few posts I said "That's your belief that it's nonsense." and you said it's not a belief that the bible is nonsense, it's a fact.

Therefore, I just said that it's not a fact that religion is nonsense. If it was, nobody would believe in it.

It's not a matter of opinion if the shit in the bible is true or not or if it makes sense, and it doesn't in light of all evidence ever gathered. It's bullshit, any sensible person knows that.

I would say anyone who doesn't follow that religion thinks it doesn't make sense and that it's bullshit. And I see where they are coming from, they don't follow the religion.

Am I not sensible?

Do they get judged?

Oh not that again.
That's another fun Christian mind game. Ever seen it?

No, I'm not christian.

You ask them "do you think person X will go to hell" and instead of answering they say "only God can judge" but that's now what you asked them. You just ask for their opinion on it.

No not at all, what I meant by that is, do you judge these people based on their religious beliefs?

I believe I don't know whose going where after we're dead.

Then they'll go "I can't know" which is obviously a total lie because they are christian and thus are supposed to know what the fuck they have to do to get into heaven.

But nobody is perfect, everybody does some bad things in their lives. Also they don't know because they don't even know if God exists. Nobody does. They only believe he does.

In fact if you ask the two question separately, they'll tell you what gets you in heaven and what doesn't, but then you ask them who's getting in and they say "I can't judge".

How can a person know he's getting in? haha, he got his ticket there or something? Cause nobody knows if heaven even exists.

I believe there is a heaven, but I don't know.

Hypocritical morons. They make the judgment in their mind and they're too scared to admit it and tell you what they really think.

I don't care if they do make their judgments in their heads or not. I don't care.

But I think it's more reasonable to think that these people don't admit it and tell you what they really think because they don't know. Actually, nobody knows. They can only hope.

Man I hate em'.

Anyways, "do they get judged"? Yes, they get judged "stupid" by me.

Oh okay, I get it now. You're prejudice.

Wouldn't following your parents religion (by choice) mean you have your own personal belief in God?

It's about as much of a choice as talking a different language than your parents.

In the way that you are born into it, I understand that.

Good luck with that. If religion really was a choice decided logically, it wouldn't be spread geographically around the planet.

Yeah, but it's not a choice decided logically. But it's also not a choice decided illogically. Faith has nothing to do with logic. Since logic, in itself, cannot explain how time could possibly start. And time had to start somewhere, Everything has a start.

At 7/17/08 01:20 AM, poxpower wrote: You have absolutely zero reading comprehension skills. How did they let you in college?
I can't even believe this. Are you kidding me? Did you truly not even understand what that post was about?

Yeah, I got it. I got it despite the fact your examples didn't back what your point was.

What have I always, unflinchingly, stubbornly told you? STOP MAKING EXAMPLES APPEAR FROM YOUR ANUS!

Your point, which was simple enough, was that entertaining notions of positivity at the expense of a more objective truth is a bad idea; generally, I'd agree with you too.

Your examples, ONCE AGAIN, blew out the fucking water.

Your examples included putting positive "spin" on historical characters not only didn't fit your intended point, it told the exact OPPOSITE.

Ex:

I think Julius Caesar was a rich man who went around giving money to the poor. I think that's much more positive for society if we learn that he was a good man instead of an expansionist war-crazed guy.

I would agree with this statement entirely, because Caesar WAS a rich man who went around giving money to the poor. And it certainly WOULD be more positive for society if more people learned he wasn't simply an "expansionist war-crazed guy". Understanding the social background of the time, the imminent collapse of the Republic, and general breadth of knowledge during that period would show he was indeed much more than just a top notch field commander. He was also an extremely adept politician, and seemed to generally have a concern for the city of Rome.

He wasn't all war-crazed, evident by the fact that the 2nd Triumvirate continued proscriptions after noting that Caesar's famed, FAMED, leniency and generosity probably helped lead to his quick assassination.

In other words, both your examples there are ALREADY true.

But that wasn't your point, was it? Your point was the complete opposite. That thinking in such a line is folly, right? The example you gave highlighted the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of your intended point.

And so forth.

And you have the balls to ask ME how I got into college?

How the hell did YOU get in?
I would LOVE to read your application essay, and see if you really are as bad at giving examples to back your points as you CONSISTENTLY display here. What'd your essay look like for fuck's sake? Your examples NEVER actually aid your point, and in this case, DETRACT from it heavily since they present the exact opposite.

"I think I'd be a good student at this college because I make good decisions. Like when Hitler decided to invade Russia, or when the skipper of the Exxon Valdez tanker decided to get tanked on the job, or when President Bush declared "Mission Accomplished"."

I mean, you were trying to mock my point, which is fine, but FAILED at it.

Ex
"Haha, your logic is so stupid. Next you're gonna tell me the grass is green! lol, idiot"
"Erm, pox.....the grass IS green....."

So yes, my reading comprehension is fine thank you. I got the point of your post, even with the examples highlighting the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of your intended point.

Jesus....I mean, this is why I never actually get to making an argument against you. I have to spend all my time showing why your argument is so full of holes it's not worth it! Even when you have good points, you fuck the delivery so bad it gets muddled in all the bullshit you put around it.

Try this, next time you have a point, just use this guide:

"My point is....."

And then if you're feeling brave:

"my examples to back my point are......"

And then when INEVITABLY the latter doesn't match the former, I'll at least have ready access to the original point in clear words, and we can work on you backing your points with examples that actually BACK your points......

At 7/17/08 06:39 PM, Creek wrote: I don't own a copy of the Koran so I couldn't point out where.

you can't find me one quote online?

Therefore, I just said that it's not a fact that religion is nonsense. If it was, nobody would believe in it.

Oh really.
Then explain how there can be one billion people who believe in Christianity and one billion who beleive in Hinduism.
They're not complementary whatsoever. Ever if one of them is not nonsense, that automatically makes the other one nonsense.
You can't win. There's a least a billion people believing in something that is utterly retarded and false and that's just if the only information about the universe you have comes from scripture.

If it comes from science then you can say that anyone who's not a deist or an atheist/agnostic believes in nonsense.

No not at all, what I meant by that is, do you judge these people based on their religious beliefs?

What does that mean, do I judge them?
I judge that they're probably dumber than me about religion since they believe in one. That's what I judge and if they think they can argue me out of it, they're welcome to try, because I sure as hell would love to argue THEM out of their nonsensical belief.

How can a person know he's getting in? haha, he got his ticket there or something? Cause nobody knows if heaven even exists.

You don't get it. Christians think they know that heaven exists but they won't admit that they know exactly what you have to do to get in. I've never once met a christian who thought he was going to hell.
Never ever ever.

Yeah, but it's not a choice decided logically. But it's also not a choice decided illogically. Faith has nothing to do with logic. Since logic, in itself, cannot explain how time could possibly start. And time had to start somewhere, Everything has a start.

oh God.
I'm not even starting on that. Figure it out for yourself some day. I recommend you go watch some Hitchens and Dawkins videos on youtube.

At 7/17/08 07:11 PM, Imperator wrote:

Your point, which was simple enough, was that entertaining notions of positivity at the expense of a more objective truth is a bad idea; generally, I'd agree with you too.

What do you mean "generally"?
You're defending it for religion just because it makes people feel better but not history?
Why the fuck would you do that?

Either you care about the truth or you don't. Don't go picking and choosing what parts of reality you think we should look at objectively and what parts we shouldn't.

At 7/17/08 06:39 AM, Zoraxe7 wrote: This is madness.

Ceaser ended the egyption civil war, and appearently married the hottest inbred slut of the ancient world.

(little known facts, Cleopatra was greek, but the greek rulers cuntinued the egyption customs, including incestuis marriages of royalty, see graph)

Do me a favor, DON'T try to pretend like I'm on "your side". I've probably got the goods on the Christian religion more than anyone else here, and if I really felt it (which you're helping), I'll "jump ship" to the other side and throw some "little known facts" about the Christian religion that'll make your head fuck spin.

Don't confuse me going after Pox as me backing the "religious" side of this debate, cause quite frankly, I'd have more fun using the Original Greek of the New Testament and the basic history of the Church from its roots to destroy any and every Christian making a stupid point.

But I'm having enough fun just pointing out how idiotic some people's points are in and of themselves.

There's guys like Shaggy on one side, guys like Malignant on the other, and then people like Pox and yourself, who can't seem to actually create decent arguments, no matter how valid their points actually are.

Worst comes to worse, I head back to Heathenry, where the rather homo-erotic dick waving of insults doesn't go on, and the general register of posts is a bit more relaxed (and intelligent).

At 7/17/08 07:17 PM, poxpower wrote: What do you mean "generally"?

I mean, in most situations. There's always an exception to the rule, and occasionally the lie is just as important as the truth. For morale purposes, say, in military settings, sometimes a little misinformation is integral for both allies and enemies.

I try not to throw all my eggs in one basket, because that's generally the stupidest of stupid moves. There are enough stereotypes and generalizations that fly around, we don't need more.

You're defending it for religion just because it makes people feel better but not history?

Like I said, even when you make good points you fuck the delivery. You were right in that letting someone be happy with their idiocy can get in the way of things. I don't feel you're correct in doing that all the time however, because I'd rather someone be a little stupid and happy and thus generally not a nuisance than have their world view come crashing down; Misery tends to love company, and some people are just generally better off being "ignorant" and "blissful", as the saying goes.

Why the fuck would you do that?

Cause I'm not a total dick. In most cases religious people do not use their religion in any other fashion than to give them hope, strength, and lovey dovey feelings for themselves. In those cases, what one uses to get through the day is really none of my business. When it starts becoming problematic, then yeah, a sharp jolt back to reality is needed. Otherwise, let the majority of the 2.1 miserable fucks who believe it, believe it and be content with themselves.

You seem to want to take it away just because you don't like it.
I'm not exactly a huge fan of lacross, but I'm not out to destroy the fucking sport and everyone who enjoys it. I'm certainly not going around trying to convince them why I think it sucks.

Religion is generally the same. If they wanna head to Church, get "cleansed" because it makes em happy, then fine. When I'm stressed I like to take long walks, some people confess sins. Whatever works. Some people do prayer sessions, or charity work, or whatever to make them feel like they're making a difference. Some people just throw a few coins when Santa rings his bell outside the mall.

Let's be clear here, we're not talking about the 500 assholes in each major branch that seem to want to fuck things up for everyone (and seem to do so no matter what friggin group they belong to), we're talking the vast majority of average people to whom religion is integral to their lives, but not so integral that it interferes with everyone around them.

Either you care about the truth or you don't. Don't go picking and choosing what parts of reality you think we should look at objectively and what parts we shouldn't.

God, you're denser than a fucking piece of iron.....

I care about the truth, but then again, "the truth" to someone who studies history merits a 50 pg discussion on just what the fuck that entails.

The example you brought up only highlights the fact you've never actually opened a damn history book, or have any thoughts revolving around anyone else's perception.

I mean, what's truth to you anyways? What YOU say is right? Gimme a break.....nothing exists in a vacuum.

Telling me "truth" is an "all-in" concept is just about as stupid as assuming you live in a vacuum.....which is apparently what I'm gathering from you, as I'm pretty sure "perception" or "Point of View" are foreign terms for you.....

You're an artist for fuck's sake. Perception should not be a hard concept to gather here......

I mean, it's the same reason why eye witnesses almost NEVER agree completely, and why their testimonies can actually change over time.

Most people seem to define "reality" as that point somewhere between what you think happened, and what I think happened.

You seem to think "reality" is this hard and fast point that you see, and I'm just 'not getting it' as ususal.....

But maybe, just maybe, you're not the almighty center of the Universe that you think you are?

At 7/17/08 07:13 PM, poxpower wrote:

At 7/17/08 06:39 PM, Creek wrote: I don't own a copy of the Koran so I couldn't point out where.

you can't find me one quote online?

I don't know, let me see..

Found something. Quotes a muslim lady saying "Muhammad said: that wars may only be waged between soldiers, but not against civilians."

Link
Last sentence of the 12th paragraph.

Therefore, I just said that it's not a fact that religion is nonsense. If it was, nobody would believe in it.

Oh really.
Then explain how there can be one billion people who believe in Christianity and one billion who beleive in Hinduism.
They're not complementary whatsoever. Ever if one of them is not nonsense, that automatically makes the other one nonsense.

Doesn't make it a fact that it's nonsense. They only believe it is. Nobody knows.

You can't win.

It's not a war. It's just a belief on how the universe came to being. According to logic it's impossible.

If it comes from science then you can say that anyone who's not a deist or an atheist/agnostic believes in nonsense.

If it's absolute proof, then yes.

No not at all, what I meant by that is, do you judge these people based on their religious beliefs?

What does that mean, do I judge them?
I judge that they're probably dumber than me about religion since they believe in one.

Oh, okay. I was asking if you judged them, as in you dislike them and label them as stupid, retarded, under-developed people, only because of their religious beliefs.

That's what I judge and if they think they can argue me out of it, they're welcome to try, because I sure as hell would love to argue THEM out of their nonsensical belief.

It's not something that you can argue. You can only use opinions to argue, because nobody knows the origins of the universe.

You don't get it. Christians think they know that heaven exists but they won't admit that they know exactly what you have to do to get in.

Didn't know that.

I've never once met a christian who thought he was going to hell.

Only people I've met that thought they were going to hell are my 2 satanic freinds. ehh.. that sounds wrong, but I don't judge them or question them about it.. It's a bit untasteful I must say but I don't pay attention to it.

Yeah, but it's not a choice decided logically. But it's also not a choice decided illogically. Faith has nothing to do with logic. Since logic, in itself, cannot explain how time could possibly start. And time had to start somewhere, Everything has a start.

oh God.
I'm not even starting on that. Figure it out for yourself some day.

If I was able to figure it out, I would have by now. There isn't much more thinking required beyond that to see that there is no answer. And that our logic pretty much tells us that we shouldn't even exist right now.

Mass cannot be created or destroyed. But there is mass. But it can't be created. Where did this mass come from? It can't be created.

We can't be created, the universe can't be created, we can't exist. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE.

Logic fails. And it is clear that there is something we are not capable of understanding.

I recommend you go watch some Hitchens and Dawkins videos on youtube.

are they funny?

Either you care about the truth or you don't

Here's an example:

The fact is that Caesar was a rich man who gave money to the poor. That's a TRUE statement.

The truth about WHY he did such an action might never be clarified beyond educated guesses.

Interesting fact:
For Roman law, legal scholars have surviving written laws, mandates, and other such things. We know what the Roman laws were because we have copies of them.

For Greek law, legal scholars have surviving court speeches. We have to infer what the law was based on speeches by prosecutors or defendants, we don't actually know what those laws actually were. Legal scholars have to take guesses based on what is written by people talking about them.
As you'd expect, this leads to a little diversity in what their laws were.

Hence, Truth, fact, and objectivity, while important, and sought after, are not hard and fast rules by which history is written.

I mean, there are 210 separate theories on why Rome fell. Where's the "Truth" lie in there?

Yeah, I care about truth, but I'm not so dumb as to assume my position on something is the end all discussion of it.....

And if you really want a mind fuck? Head to a philosophy department; those guys take a sharp LEFT at objectivity and "the Truth"......

(Which always sorta made me smile since the Classics department is down the hall from the Philosophy department at U of M).

At 7/17/08 07:45 PM, Imperator wrote:

I don't feel you're correct in doing that all the time however, because I'd rather someone be a little stupid and happy and thus generally not a nuisance than have their world view come crashing down;

But when does it end?
When do you tell them about Santa Claus?

Because it's creating truly ridiculous and divisive problems we shouldn't have.

Cause I'm not a total dick. In most cases religious people do not use their religion in any other fashion than to give them hope, strength, and lovey dovey feelings for themselves.

I won't go to their house to piss on that, but in a public sphere, they should know what the fuck's up.
If they want to go Amish and shut out reason, they can do that, but I have no clue how you can maintain such beliefs when confronted with the world.
I guess they're just arrogant to think that muslims are somehow less faithful than they are, and vice-versa.

I mean this is insane. We can't shield them from the truth and confrontation 24/7 just because it makes them happy. In public, the truth takes priority. In their homes they can believe whatever they want.

Obviously it's expected that the public view will trump the in-house crap over the years.

I care about the truth, but then again, "the truth" to someone who studies history merits a 50 pg discussion on just what the fuck that entails.

We know Christians are telling bold-faced lies.
We know Jesus didn't rise from the dead. We don't need an historic document that says "nope, Jesus did indeed stay dead".
People don't rise from the dead. It's a lie that they are perpetrating as historic truth.
Doesn't that piss you off?

Don't you want to tell them to cram that into their buttholes?

At 7/17/08 08:01 PM, poxpower wrote:
But when does it end?
When do you tell them about Santa Claus?

Parents seem generally content with letting kids believe in Santa Clause. They don't go around to their five year olds yelling "NO you fucking idiot! Santa is a made up character, Dec. 25 th is just a day selected by some old fucks to give presents to each other!"

Cops trying to get suicide jumpers to stop generally don't tell them "You're right, nobody really gives a rat's ass who you are, you have no friends, and no one's gonna miss you when you're gone" either, in case you didn't know.......

Like I said, sometimes the lie is more important than the truth. Everyone needs a little sheltering, and how each person gets that is not my business to decide.

Because it's creating truly ridiculous and divisive problems we shouldn't have.

If they want to go Amish and shut out reason, they can do that, but I have no clue how you can maintain such beliefs when confronted with the world.

You'd have to get off your ass, do some research, and, here's the kicker, ask the Amish.

It's not my place to tell them to learn how to drive, I don't know why you feel it should be yours.....

Frankly, if I were to do something like that, It'd be telling guys like you to head back to college to educate yourselves on something other than a degree in finger painting.......but like I said, I'm not a total dick......

I guess they're just arrogant to think that muslims are somehow less faithful than they are, and vice-versa.

Yeah. They're also just like every sports fan ANYWHERE claiming their team's the best. Which is good and fine until some drunken idiot starts a bar fight over it.

Talk to Red Wings fans: They think the RW are the best team ever, and that the Avalanche don't even qualify as "professional" hockey players.

Talk to Avalanche fans: they think the Avs are the best team ever, and that the Red Wings don't even qualify as "professional" hockey players.

Better yet, talk to Michigan people about Ohio State. Then talk to Ohio State people about Michigan.

It's sort of natural tendency to believe your group is the best and the other group sucks.....because it happens to be the group you're in.....

In public, the truth takes priority.

Don't ever run for public office. "Top Secret" seems to be a term you're not familiar with either.....

And quite frankly, there are some things about my government I'd prefer not to know anyways.....

We know Christians are telling bold-faced lies.
We know Jesus didn't rise from the dead. We don't need an historic document that says "nope, Jesus did indeed stay dead".
People don't rise from the dead. It's a lie that they are perpetrating as historic truth.
Doesn't that piss you off?

no. Why should it? Seriously, why's it getting you mad?

Getting pissed off because someone believes something that isn't right? Do you get pissed at kids for believing in Santa too? I mean Jesus Pox.....where does THAT line of reasoning end? Telling 3 year olds about their social responsibility to the world?

Shit's gone sour enough as is. Teen suicide rates jumped 8% last year, and you wanna take away comforting thoughts of belonging and being loved? You wanna tell more people there's no invisible man in the sky who loves them?

Don't you want to tell them to cram that into their buttholes?

Well I've never actually been approached by anyone other than a Mormon handing out cards. I told him "no thanks" and went on my merry way, and he his.

Nothing more was needed. If that had been you, what would you have done? Got in his face, started a protest group?

No, I don't want to tell them to stuff it. What the hell would that solve? What the fuck is the matter with you anyways?

Completely unrelated, I just got done reading it, so I have no real comment yet, other than "interesting article".

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/18/scienc e/18law.html?pagewanted=1

At 7/17/08 07:21 PM, Imperator wrote: Do me a favor, DON'T try to pretend like I'm on "your side". I've probably got the goods on the Christian religion more than anyone else here, and if I really felt it (which you're helping), I'll "jump ship" to the other side and throw some "little known facts" about the Christian religion that'll make your head fuck spin.

I was just trying to say I agree with you : (
My last post wasnt my greatest, I know, its just that I like history, so i thought (stupidly) that bringing it up would lighten things up here, and im not as good as other people here, well, im just a high school student, im not as educated as you, or pox. and if I have bean making stupid arguments all this time I wish I had know, but I have been trying. So im sorry if I am in your way with your war path on Pox.

There's guys like Shaggy on one side, guys like Malignant on the other, and then people like Pox and yourself, who can't seem to actually create decent arguments, no matter how valid their points actually are.

Am I realy that bad? Or are you just using me to make swipes at poxpower?

My last post wasn't my greatest, I know, its just that I like history, so i thought (stupidly) that bringing it up would lighten things up here

Fuck that, this is personal. The government already does a bang up job of trying to tell me what's good for me (as if those assholes knew best), I don't need some prick I've never met telling me the same over an internet forum.

And that's EXACTLY what this is, Pox telling me (and every other spiritually minded person) what's best for me. I'm telling him exactly what he'd tell me if I were in his shoes "kindly fuck off before I find a large stick to beat you with".

Am I realy that bad? Or are you just using me to make swipes at poxpower?

As far as I know you haven't posted anything recent anyways, but I do remember the last argument from you I read about this topic made me want to take a soldering iron to my eyes (another case where absolute "Truth" is probably not the optimal preference for doing things. There goes that interpersonal relationship). Might have been an isolated incident though. Take some time and post something up, if it's not irritatingly bad, you probably won't hear from me.

Now I've got to look back over the last few pages and check on this "Creek" idiot.

See, I generally assume people here are idiots until proven otherwise. I used to do it the other way, but the exceptions started to outweigh the rule itself, so I inverted it. So don't take my harshness the wrong way, I'm not biased against you, I think everyone's an idiot at first, and am occasionally pleasantly surprised at being wrong.

At 1/18/07 10:37 AM, DJ-Jerakai wrote: Ok, so religion has the bible, the koran, the holy scriptures and so fourth and so on, but Science has everything else plus logic.

Science has disproved many Christian theories, such as the evolution of man, contrary to the theory of Adam and Eve.

So! This raises several questions.
Firstly, why do people still believe that mankind descended from Adam and Eve in the face of Sheer scientific fact?

And secondly, how long will it be before Science completely disproves the theory of how god made earth and validates the big bang theory?

Thirdly, once that happends, would faithfuls continue to blindly ignore scientific facts and follow disproven religious texts?

Any other questions?

Any answers?

I have no questions
But my answer is that all good Christians have faith. Even in the face of scientific fact, can you explain anything about God? Can you explain how he is everywhere at once? No you can't. And before you go saying that that isn't real, remember that that is what us Christians believe. So it's very damn real to us. Don't go waltzing around with "scientific proof" about something that exists only through pure faith. My faith is what makes me believe that God created everything, including your science fool.

At 7/17/08 08:21 PM, Imperator wrote:

Parents seem generally content with letting kids believe in Santa Clause.

It would be pretty sad to find a 35 year old man waiting at his chimney for Santa.
But somehow I'm supposed to respect people who pray? Pff come on.

Like I said, sometimes the lie is more important than the truth.

Sorry, religion doesn't qualify. It's not one of those spur-of-the-moment white lies to get out of trouble, it's really a life-long bold-faced lie that has much bigger consequences for us all that just making people comforted in the face of adversity.

It's not my place to tell them to learn how to drive, I don't know why you feel it should be yours.....

Don't you think it's child abuse to force a kid to live like in the fucking middle ages??
To deny them modern education and luxuries?
"yeah there's a cure for cancer but we have to use a needle so that wasn't invented 500 years ago. Sorry TImmy".

The only reason this is protected is because they're "religious". What a crock of shit.

Yeah. They're also just like every sports fan ANYWHERE claiming their team's the best.

Here's how you can test for that: whichever team wins the game IS THE BEST.
The fuck do you test religion?

They're even stupider than sports fans, who are already pretty low.

Don't ever run for public office. "Top Secret" seems to be a term you're not familiar with either.....

I'm talking about school, news, science etc.
We're not going to pussy-foot around their sensitivities just because they're too childish to accept they believe in Santa Claus and the Boogeyman.

Getting pissed off because someone believes something that isn't right? Do you get pissed at kids for believing in Santa too?

These people are ADULTS who get government jobs, education jobs and sometimes even science jobs and they don't have the integrity to admit they're lying to their kids and themselves about things that are FACTS.

They're liars.
Who the fuck respects liars? Why should we get pissed at them? People get pissed at Holocaust deniers. Hey what do we care what they think, right? Let's leave them believe that and start a whole society around "the holocaust didn't happen" and in 200 years from now when no one remembers what's what, we can have some REAL fun!

Well I've never actually been approached by anyone other than a Mormon handing out cards.

I'd give him 20 bucks to sit his ass down in front of my computer as I search for flaws in his dumbass religion. See how he feels after that.
Aw I never have any cool religious visitors. Stupid apartment. Do they come to apartments? We have some costumed jews and muslims around Montreal. No mormons I guess.
Oh well.

At 7/17/08 08:23 PM, Imperator wrote: Completely unrelated, I just got done reading it, so I have no real comment yet, other than "interesting article".

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/18/scienc e/18law.html?pagewanted=1

that's just the watchmaker argument again.
"oh look at this thing that exists, it couldn't possibly have come about like that!".

Evolution is pretty much proven now, I bet you in the next 20 years, they're coming after physics saying we don't know anything, using the whole "where did the laws come from?" , "where did these 6 numbers come from?" etc.

er

At 7/17/08 09:34 PM, Petro355 wrote: I have a question:Do you people enjoy arguing?

I mean, seriously, there really is no point. There MAY be a God, there MAY not be a God, and the world MAY be taken over by evil flying monkies, but it does't really make a rat's shit worth of difference whether or not we can prove who is right and who is not right.

I'm going to go ahead and guess that you're new around these parts.

Some of us have been making this point for years, but it does little to bring people off their high horses in terms of whether or not they believe in some higher power. In short, you get an A for effort, but nothing you or I can do will stop the endless cycle of arguments here.

At 7/18/08 02:27 AM, dySWN wrote: In short, you get an A for effort, but nothing you or I can do will stop the endless cycle of arguments here.

Here you go. Welcome aboard.

At 7/17/08 05:19 PM, Earfetish wrote:
You really need to focus on being less vague.

Yeah. I'm trying to be broad intentionally though, because the more specific you get with things like this, the less accurate it is.

How is the Bible an abstract look at the Earth or how is it even a valid way of looking at the world?

It's a book with stories and lessons? Like fairytales? Any religion is valid, because it's a choice. It's an act of sentience and must be respected. Whether it's completely accurate isn't really the point.

It's important that we, as discusionnaires, however, are as accurate as possible. Because these topics are so broad, you have to be sure that what you say is actually what you truly want people to think you mean. So let's look at abstract art. The real definition is probably different, but more or less it's a piece that represents something more than it appears to at first, correct? It may not even be aesthetically abstract, but conceptually as well, unless I'm mistaken.

So if you apply this to the bible. It easily turns into a book of fables. Situation + Result = Lesson

How is that not valid?

It's certainly important to consider religion when considering the Human condition but I fail to see how it's a representation of anything real at all. Y'know, except for the Human condition.

Our perception is our entire environment, how a group of individuals chooses to interpret that environment is important as you said.

How can you say it's not a representation of something real?

Would anyone follow the religion at all if they didn't think this exact thing?

It's not a scientific reality, of course, but it is a philosophical one. Maybe. If you want to go down that road...